New HAL Ship, largest ever

[Krazy Kruizers]

Given its real and perceived problems, I think most people here would like to see the Veendam as the ship that gets retired first. However the Veendam also has the most passenger capacity of the S class, almost as much as the R, so it might remain in the fleet longer than one would expect.

 

We were fortunate to sail on the Veendam before she had all these new additions. And she was a lovely ship.

Adding all those extra cabins just put a strain on the air conditioning and plumbing.

[sail7seas]

We were fortunate to sail on the Veendam before she had all these new additions. And she was a lovely ship.

 

Adding all those extra cabins just put a strain on the air conditioning and plumbing.

 

 

I agree. Veendam was a lovely ship and we started sailing her during her Inaugural season. We did b-to-b in the Caribbean her first summer in the fleet ..... among a number of other cruises on her.

 

We have some great memories of lots of fun on Veendam.

We are booked for next summer's 7 day Boston to Boston itinerary and while we love that cruise, we aren't so sure about doing it on Veendam. We have done it several times on Maasdam and are eager to repeat it with friends who sailed it last time with us.

 

 

[Seago2]

Ratios don't tell the whole story. I've been on ships recently where there are very large spaces that appear to never be used. So... Holding off on judgement until I see more!

[Hawaiidan]

Holland America is following in the steps on Celeb and their solstice ships.

Wheras on a Holland ship presently there is lots of deck space and only 1 or 2 extra pay restauraunts and most everything is included in a 2 class ship

 

The Solstice plan is to create multiple class distinctions (4) and fares, eliminate much of the non revenue producing open deck and fill it with dozens of money making restraunts, coffee bars, wine bars, sports bars, bistros, spas, and retreats; charging extra for almost everything from juice to grilled sanwitches.. restauraunts exclusively facilites for upper classification cabins .

 

In short, getting as many passengers on board and provide them with an overwhelming array of extra cost places and options avail themselves at every turn .... Pretty much like they do in casinos..there is no direct route through in order for you to spend as much time as possible at potential points of sale. It works

This is what Holland is also doing on Princendam and other smaller ships, getting rid of wastes open space and filling it in with money making options

 

I see Holland America becoming more of a Carnival clone than moving up the scale to be classier

[solocanadian]

I am willing to withhold judgement on this until I've seen more. Frankly, I'm with Sail in that I never expected to like the Vistas but then I fell in love with the Noordam. I love the smaller ships -- the Prinsendam is a joy to cruise aboard -- however, I also like the larger/more modern vessels. Yes, certain venues aboard the Eurodam (like the Lido) felt a little crowded at times, but she was a pretty vessel and I'm going to be cruising aboard here, again, in the summer of 2013. Perhaps HAL will give serious thought to space-useage issues in the new Pinnacle Class and will give us some larger seating capacity for the high-use Lido, etc. And, would someone please tell the cabin designers that we NEED some drawers!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here, here on the Drawers - that's why I dislike Vista & Signature. The regular OV cabins have no drawers at the desk - only under beds and sofa - not the least bit easily accessible.

[solocanadian]

I agree. Veendam was a lovely ship and we started sailing her during her Inaugural season. We did b-to-b in the Caribbean her first summer in the fleet ..... among a number of other cruises on her.

 

We have some great memories of lots of fun on Veendam.

We are booked for next summer's 7 day Boston to Boston itinerary and while we love that cruise, we aren't so sure about doing it on Veendam. We have done it several times on Maasdam and are eager to repeat it with friends who sailed it last time with us.

 

 

Were you on the Innagural with Captain Mercer in June 1996. My late husband and me were & did the Wedding Renewal Vow Ceremony. It was a packed ship & as you say, very pretty then except for the MDR. I thought it looked like a house of ill repute with all the red and gold. At least there was no net at the ceiling.:)

[Sophiebaby]

When the "S" class and "R" class ships are gone from the fleet, I will be gone from the fleet. I am trying to crowd as many cruises on those category ships into my plans in the next few years, just in case!

[Katie333]

Like many others have said, this news is hardly shocking. Technically this is still mid-sized as new build ships routinely exceed 3-4k+ passengers from a variety of other lines.

 

I'm sure it's cost effectiveness given how mass market cruising has become. For me - a relative recent cruiser of 8 years - I'm happy to be able to afford it and alot of that is because of the larger passenger capacities. I've also noticed that on Princess, which I cruise most often, the smaller ships like Ocean often charge a huge premium for similar itineraries on the larger ships. I would not be surprised to see this model become the norm as pax who prefer the smaller ships seem to have funds to pay the difference.

[world~citizen]

I agree the news is not surprising.

 

HAL used to focus on intimate service based on smaller ships...that was what endeared many to the line.

 

Things change. Time will tell if it is for the better. Frankly we prefer smaller ships, but HAL has some fantastic itineraries. The problem is, with ever increasing ship size, HAL limits the ports it can call at.

 

The move may be terrific for first time cruisers, but more seasoned ones may move to other lines with smaller ships.

[sail7seas]

Were you on the Innagural with Captain Mercer in June 1996. My late husband and me were & did the Wedding Renewal Vow Ceremony. It was a packed ship & as you say, very pretty then except for the MDR. I thought it looked like a house of ill repute with all the red and gold. At least there was no net at the ceiling.:)

 

 

No, Gail.

We were not on the Inaugural Voyage. I would say it may have been about her 10th and 11th (back-to-back) or something like that. It was a looong time ago :) so I'm not sure but am very sure we were in the Caribbean her Inaugural Summer. HAL used to send the new builds to the Caribbean for summer cruises their first year and we REALLY miss they no longer do that......... or have any Caribbean summer cruises. We loved them.

[InTheWASide]

Holland America is following in the steps on Celeb and their solstice ships.

Wheras on a Holland ship presently there is lots of deck space and only 1 or 2 extra pay restauraunts and most everything is included in a 2 class ship

 

The Solstice plan is to create multiple class distinctions (4) and fares, eliminate much of the non revenue producing open deck and fill it with dozens of money making restraunts, coffee bars, wine bars, sports bars, bistros, spas, and retreats; charging extra for almost everything from juice to grilled sanwitches.. restauraunts exclusively facilites for upper classification cabins .

 

In short, getting as many passengers on board and provide them with an overwhelming array of extra cost places and options avail themselves at every turn .... Pretty much like they do in casinos..there is no direct route through in order for you to spend as much time as possible at potential points of sale. It works

This is what Holland is also doing on Princendam and other smaller ships, getting rid of wastes open space and filling it in with money making options

 

I see Holland America becoming more of a Carnival clone than moving up the scale to be classier

 

While I agree on a lot of what you said, you realize that the most recent changes to Prinsendam, other than the extra rooms which DID also help to create a larger aft pool deck were to convert a library that was poorly designed into an Explorations Cafe consistent with the rest of the fleet, they turned the art gallery into a Digital Workshop which completely goes against what you are saying above, they are enclosing the aft Lido terrace so it can be enjoyed in poor weather as well...

 

HAL is doing what many wish they would do fleetwide... ON PRINSENDAM. Just not so much with the rest of the fleet and do additions compared to their predecessors.

[InTheWASide]

I agree the news is not surprising.

 

HAL used to focus on intimate service based on smaller ships...that was what endeared many to the line.

 

Things change. Time will tell if it is for the better. Frankly we prefer smaller ships, but HAL has some fantastic itineraries. The problem is, with ever increasing ship size, HAL limits the ports it can call at.

 

The move may be terrific for first time cruisers, but more seasoned ones may move to other lines with smaller ships.

 

The itineraries have slipped some in recent years as well. The changes to Alaska itineraries in both removing the 14 day and removing Hubbard Glacier... focusing more on Tracy Arm (beautiful but not the same), removing things like the Kiluhea sailby on Hawaii itineraries, no new ideas in Canada/New England or even a rotation of ships in over half a decade and even just the fact that it's always the same ships over and over and over again in the same areas and doing the same things... They finally got a little more creative by giving Eurodam an opportunity to have a 14 day B2B. A lesson which if not done it's innaugural year should have been copied off Solstice and Oasis in 2009.

[crooser888]

My wife and I just got off the Veendam last week, on the October 13-20 sailing to Canada and New England. Staff on board said the new ship will be called the Statendam but didn't mention a prefix such as Nieuw.

 

We really like the Veendam and everything went well. We were also on board earlier this year to Bermuda. Not sure why there are so many negative reviews. It is older but the staff all work very hard and we had a great time. The newer ships we have sailed on include the Nieuw Amsterdam, Noordam, Eurodam, but also the smaller Statendam and the Amsterdam. Here's my review of the Veendam from last week if you are interested.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=110396

 

For something different, we are booked on the Celebrity Reflection in March 2013. Just can't stay loyal to one line, after sailing on Cunard, Disney, Princess, Celebrity and Royal Carribean.

[VermeulT]

Another thing about passenger/ space ratios.... this takes into consideration the spaces that no one wants to be in... a ship might boast more sq ft per person - but.....

 

I was on princess 10 years ago. 20 (?) stories high and 2600 passengers. There is essentially one deck to be outside. 2600 people won't fit there. Heck 1300 people wouldn't.

 

I loved the Maasdam... I loved the Zuiderdam, Westerdam & Eurodam too. And my first thought when reading about the new ship was I want to be on one of the first voyages. I'll get a nice sized balcony for my outdoor space and enjoy all the amenities the ship has to offer.

 

Yes! Please do more 10+ day itineraries in the Caribbean. How about from NY!?!?

[Typhoon1]

Think this is an exciting move on HAL's part. Personally we prefer 1500 to 2000 size passenger ships, but at 2660 - it would be the maximum we'd go to give it a try. Hope they don't get into all the excessive amusement park features. Wouldn't want to sail on the Gozilladam. Just a nice classy ship with the basics that makes cruising about cruising. Hope HAL doesn't mess this up. Fall 2015--hard to think too far ahead as we keep getting older, but we'd be game for something in early 2016 with God willing. :)

 

2,600 is probably the biggest we would go.

 

3,000 or larger is far too big, and we would take a pass. A classy 2;600 would really work minus all the nonsense like amusement parks and skating rinks.

[mariner]

We sailed on VEENDAM before she ever carried any paying passengers. Have no idea why we were invited. Just us and a whole bunch of travel agents who had seminars to go to. Since we weren't TAs, we enjoyed the days. Nights, with open bars, were another story.

 

They ruined her when they replaced the aft pool. And if you search long enough on here, you'll see my posting warning about it.

 

Not a big fan of big ships. No one can deliver any type of service.

[Sophiebaby]

As an economics major, I understand "economy of scale" very well. However, since I've cruised a lot, itinerary, longer cruises and unusual ports are what interests me. The smaller ships are needed for that type of cruising. I'm willing to pay the premium to sail the smaller ships. There should be something for everyone in the fleet.

[ASIWISH]

I would hate to see Maasdam departure before other potential candidates.

 

I understand her to be named the Grand Statendam….:)

[Hawaiidan]

With over 80% of the travel market having never taken a cruise, the money is clearly established in the 5 to 7 day market. The shorter time avails it to a much broader group of customers Those with less income, and even less vacation time. Too on a shorter cruise , if my information is correct, a passenger spends far more per day. It is easy to not think much about running 100 a day bar bills, speciality restauraunt , casino and tours.

Also on the 7 day or less cruise, there is a onboard sense of urgency to do as much as possible in the time one has.:eek: On longer cruises, that sence of I "gotta' do that" slows to a crawl at the length goes on.

 

Its far easier for the average guy to spend at this rate for a week or less than to sustain that level for 10 to 14 days. Thats why hotels and resorts on land from Vegas to Ski country all package in 6 to 7 day units.

As within that window more have the time and money.

 

Holland stopped its 14 day Alaska because of this very fact lesser profit and a smaller market

 

The goal is to get that 80% on board and create a new customer base.

It, is no longer gong to be focused, I belive, on the older die-hard Holland 10 star cruiser. They are hooked and need no real strokes.

 

New blood and new money will be the focus and these new mea ships are the current hip/trendy thing with more solstice like fluff rather than tradition

 

They still retain the Grand and like cruises, but they recognize that passengers who have the time for them also have the money

 

Hence they price them to luxury cruise levels or above to compensate for the slower spending done by more experienced cruiser, who do their own tours, bring their own wine and entertain themselves. So too, the line factors this in to pricing ( A grand cruise in a veranda with Holland is priced a good 10 to 20% above that of luxury lines of equal length if you check)

 

 

Sorry for those who love Princendam.. I guess I am overly sensitive because I knew her when she was in the Royal Viking line and the changes to me seem drastic fron the day she was launched. Watching cabins added, decks dissappear is one of the porblems you have with 30 year ld memory.

 

 

Finaly I love the semantics of calling 2600 a 99,000 ton ship "MID-Size when you consider thats larger than many of the Navys Aircraft carriers.

Would you consider a Carrier a mid size ship.... Not me. :rolleyes:

[DeepWaterMariner]

The size of the new build doesn't worry me. We've certainly sailed on larger ships and enjoyed the experience. Small ships are our preference but they are rarely as accessible as the large newer ships and that has becoming very important to us. The S and R class ships are out for us these days if we want an outside cabin since my wife needs a walk in shower. Fortunately the Vista class suites have worked wonderfully for us and they are a good size for us. The new build isn't that big a step up in size and if they allow us to continue to cruise HAL with accessible features we are happy.

[aliaschief]

My wife and I just got off the Veendam last week, on the October 13-20 sailing to Canada and New England. Staff on board said the new ship will be called the Statendam but didn't mention a prefix such as Nieuw.

 

We really like the Veendam and everything went well. We were also on board earlier this year to Bermuda. Not sure why there are so many negative reviews. It is older but the staff all work very hard and we had a great time. The newer ships we have sailed on include the Nieuw Amsterdam, Noordam, Eurodam, but also the smaller Statendam and the Amsterdam. Here's my review of the Veendam from last week if you are interested.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=110396

 

For something different, we are booked on the Celebrity Reflection in March 2013. Just can't stay loyal to one line, after sailing on Cunard, Disney, Princess, Celebrity and Royal Carribean.

 

Statendam? Can you confirm. at what staff level you heard this? It does go with the flow and sounds better than my suggested HooverDam.:rolleyes::) Also nice to hear another positive cruise experience on the MS Veendam.

[Himself]

Thanks for the info. So much for the rumor thread that said the next ship wouldn't come from Fincantieri:D.

 

Carnival Corp will direct all new builds on all thier lines to Fincantieri.

[Himself]

I was expecting 110,000 ton so pleasant surprise. :)

 

While we truly love 'our' Maasdam, we also love Noordam and no one was more surprised than us how much we like Eurodam. We never expected to. Going from Signature class at 86,000 to to 99,000 ton is not going to be such a big deal for us depending upon what is done with those extra ton. We enjoy all the classes of HAL ships despite the large size difference and it is highly likely we'll enjoy the new class HAL is now adding.

 

 

I see the agreement is again with Fincantieri. :) Hopefully they will make some changes in a few places I think could use some 'adjustments'.

 

This is very good news despite there seems to be confirmation our beloved Maasdam may be 'for sale'. We know it has to happen one day and that day might be imminent if buyer can be found.

 

Can't wait to learn more about them. :)

 

 

I would put more money on the Statendam or Veendam going rather than the MAASDAM.

You never hear a complaint on the Maasdam.

[kazu]

I would put more money on the Statendam or Veendam going rather than the MAASDAM.

You never hear a complaint on the Maasdam.

 

I think (and hope) you are right Father. We really enjoyed the Maasdam when we were on earlier this year.:D

[sppunk]

Finally able to catch up after Sandy to fund this thread.

 

First, Copper 10-8, you swore it wouldn't be Fincantieri. Liar! (I kid, I kid!)

 

Second, I think they send Volendam to do Asia year-round in a fleet repositioning/regrouping deal. Probably lease Statendam and put a Vista on longer voyages year-round.