Another reason why cruise cancellation policies need to change

[mitsguy2001]

Upon thinking about it more, I can somewhat understand where some of the posters disagreeing with me are coming from. For people on Long Island and New York City, Sandy was a once in a lifetime storm, and I felt that I was saying people should be given an exception to a policy for a once in a lifetime event. My employer, cable company, bank, transit authority, etc all made exceptions to policy, but they knew that they were making an exception for a once in a lifetime event. On the other hand, cruise lines deal with hurricanes on a yearly basis. Making an exception for Sandy would also involve making exceptions for more cases than they would be able to handle.

 

A similar analogy would be my employer. Like I said, they gave us 2 free paid days off, on Oct. 29 and 30, knowing that this is probably the only time we'll ever have a hurricane warranting those days off. On the other hand, we had several blizzards during the winters of 2010 and 2011, a few of which caused the streets in my area to be completely impassible. They did not offer paid days off for those storms. I willingly used vacation time for those days, but was reprimanded for doing so. I understand that snow storms happen almost every year (except 2012), and it would be too costly for them to give us a paid day off every time it snows.

[paradiseisaprincessaway]

if a vacation is booked and paid for just go.....youngsters missing a week of school isnt that big of a deal

 

just go on the vacation have fun and get a parent of the youngsters friends to bring home homework etc.....

[Paul Bogle]

if a vacation is booked and paid for just go.....youngsters missing a week of school isnt that big of a deal

 

just go on the vacation have fun and get a parent of the youngsters friends to bring home homework etc.....

 

There was a time not so long ago when such common sense prevailed in the United States. Those days have passed. It's the figurative "rack" for any parent with the temerity to withhold a week's public education from their child for such specious purposes.

[Gailerina]

 

A similar analogy would be my employer. Like I said, they gave us 2 free paid days off, on Oct. 29 and 30, knowing that this is probably the only time we'll ever have a hurricane warranting those days off. On the other hand, we had several blizzards during the winters of 2010 and 2011, a few of which caused the streets in my area to be completely impassible. They did not offer paid days off for those storms. I willingly used vacation time for those days, but was reprimanded for doing so. I understand that snow storms happen almost every year (except 2012), and it would be too costly for them to give us a paid day off every time it snows.

 

My company must be awesome, since we get 3 inclement weather days each year. We only have 1 left now of course.

[songbird1329]

1) The OP has nothing to do with this situation, they were just trying to use it to justify their own opinion, which they have stated numerous times on the boards. They thought they could sway people and learned they could not. People need to take responsible for their actions, if you end up not being able to cruise due to something unrelated to say the cruise being canceled, the responsibility is on the person's shoulders, not the cruise line.

 

2)This is for the poster who is facing this situation. I do have a question and please feel free to tell me it is none of my business or even ignore me, I 100% understand.

 

Your SO you stated has been sick and because of what has been going on, had surgery. Was this cruise planned before or after they starting becoming sick? I only ask, because I only wanted to suggest that maybe due to the health problems that the cruise should have been postpone, just until they are in a better position.

 

3) Schools have the right to change their calendar (in most states I believe). So if you are cruising during the school year, it is a risks you face.

 

4) I wonder if NY will eventually do away with this vacation, since it seems it serves no real purpose.

 

Cruise was planned many months ago, before he became ill. He's had an incredible string of bad luck, having to deal with various unrelated illnesses over the past few years. He's planning to retire in two years, right after his daughter graduates from college and his child support obligation ends.

 

Sandy was indeed the storm of the century. My company has offices in lower Manhattan and Jersey City. I work in the Jersey City location. We are half a block from the river. Our building was closed for a week. Now it's filled with refugees from our New York office. I got paid for the week we were closed. Anyone who couldn't get to the office after we reopened due to the massive failure of public transportstion or other Sandy related issued did not have to use PTO. This was unprecedented for our company.

 

 

 

(Lucky me, my department was set up for part time telecommuting. It's now full time for the duration of the crisis.)

 

 

 

I am not expecting or demanding anything from Carnival . . .but . . .

 

 

 

 

I am a real cheerleader for a certain theme park in central Florida. Years ago, when my kids were little, I decided to take them on a trip to this park. Booked one of their hotels, too. The whole "magical" experience for my little princesses. One evening we returned to our hotel and my older daughter had a minor accident. An automatic door malfunctioned and hit my older daughter in the arm. She was more scared than hurt. I reported the incident to the hotel manager because I wanted him to fix the door. The next day we went to the parks, and came back to find all sorts of souvenirs . . .t shirts, stuffed animals, etc. . . .in our room.

 

Let's be honest, they didn't have to give us anything. And if I had demanded something I probably wouldn't have gotten anything.

 

 

But that gesture turned me into a Dis . . . Er, theme park loyalist. Since that first trip in 1998 I've been back 10 times. Granted, four of those trips involved cheerleading or dance team competitions (I've got talented daughters). But I don't think I would have made nearly as many trips there if it weren't for the gestures they make to build customer loyalty.

 

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[SeaShark]

Upon thinking about it more, I can somewhat understand where some of the posters disagreeing with me are coming from. For people on Long Island and New York City, Sandy was a once in a lifetime storm, and I felt that I was saying people should be given an exception to a policy for a once in a lifetime event. My employer, cable company, bank, transit authority, etc all made exceptions to policy, but they knew that they were making an exception for a once in a lifetime event. On the other hand, cruise lines deal with hurricanes on a yearly basis. Making an exception for Sandy would also involve making exceptions for more cases than they would be able to handle.

 

I still feel that you should think about it some more.

 

 

The cruise line, like your employer, cable company, bank, transit authority, etc, DID make exceptions AT THE TIME OF THE STORM. What you are lobbying for are exceptions to take effect four months later....and NONE of those companies that you mention are doing THAT. I doubt that your employer is being compassionate enough to grant paid days off in February because of Hurricane Sandy.

 

You argue (with the stipulation that you will never change your mind) that people should be given exceptions, but you repeatedly fail to explain how the cruise line is going to be made whole for the cancelled bookings.

 

You might be able to think through this better when you figure out that the issue in February is strictly a result of a school rescheduling and NOT the fault of Hurricane Sandy.

[Paul Bogle]

It would have been a nice gesture for the cruise lines to be more flexible with passengers affected by the storm but I don't see that as further evidence of a need to modify the lines' cancellation policies. It seems the one thing everyone responding to this thread agrees with is that the storm was an outlier. Basing policies on the possibility of such rare events is not good business, insurance is the proper vehicle for such risks.

[songbird1329]

It would have been a nice gesture for the cruise lines to be more flexible with passengers affected by the storm but I don't see that as further evidence of a need to modify the lines' cancellation policies. It seems the one thing everyone responding to this thread agrees with is that the storm was an outlier. Basing policies on the possibility of such rare events is not good business, insurance is the proper vehicle for such risks.

 

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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[bucks724]

The Dis... (er, large theme park in Florida) argument is a great one. Let's delve. Dis___ is a wondrous place that caters to kids. They manufacture, en masse, many souvenir type items, which, let's face it, are HIGHLY overpriced. I mean, a set of plastic/"velour" ears is $18. I am sure these souvenirs cost Dis___ less than a dollar. So yes, your daughter gets hurt by a poorly functioning piece of equipment. She is scared, not hurt. That's awesome.

 

But Dis___ is probably trying to (a) quell your daughter's fears, (b) butter you up so you don't even THINK about a lawsuit (let's face it, many people look for things to hurt themselves on so they can sue) and © make a goodwill gesture that costs them close to nothing to turn you into a fan. Seems like they succeeded on all counts. However, they didn't (as far as I can tell from your post) offer you monetary rewards, such as a free night in a hotel, free park passes, etc., right?

 

So, Carnival offered an alternative to those having to cancel their cruise as a result of the hurricane AT THE TIME OF THE HURRICANE, but those who had a cruise scheduled, say, 4 months in advance, had the option of cancelling or keeping their plans in place, which you chose to do. But now that something outside of Carnival's control has caused disruption to your plans, you feel Carnival owes you something. Yeah... think again. Maybe they would be willing to send you a ship on a stick to make you think they're not "dollar foolish" anymore.

 

To the OP, I feel your pain when it comes to employers not making concessions for weather-related events. Our "home office" is in southern Ohio (i.e., better weather than here), and we have offices in 4 other states. They make decisions based on national news or what they experience there. What can you do? I guess we should just be thankful we have jobs (that allow us to go on cruises!) :)

[Paul Bogle]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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That's an argument for including everything in the price.

[songbird1329]

And before I hear the naysayers, a few examples:

 

 

In order to own a car you must buy insurance at state-mandated minimum limits of liabilty. In order to own a business you must provide your employees with wirker's compensation coverage.

 

 

My daughter goes to college. The school mandates that all students carry health insurance. Each student us automatically enrolled unless they opt out. Since my daughter is on my health plan, we opted out of her school's plan.

 

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[bucks724]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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We always get insurance, but NEVER through Carnival. They don't care if you buy it or not - they don't care if you buy it through them or not. Think about it. They get paid for your fare in advance and they don't refund your money whether or not you take the trip. Even when you have insurance - the insurance company is the one reimbursing you for the trip you don't take. Insurance is to cover YOU - not Carnival - in the event you can't make it on the ship.

[bucks724]

And before I hear the naysayers, a few examples:

 

 

In order to own a car you must buy insurance at state-mandated minimum limits of liabilty. To protect against bodily injury and property damage you cause to others. And to protect against your loss when an uninsured motorist hits you.

 

In order to own a business you must provide your employees with wirker's compensation coverage. To protect against injuries sustained in the course and scope of employment.

 

 

My daughter goes to college. The school mandates that all students carry health insurance. Each student us automatically enrolled unless they opt out. Since my daughter is on my health plan, we opted out of her school's plan. To ensure that the university hospital doesn't have uninsured students walking in and running up costs. And in the hopes that a student living in the dorms with a possible communicable disease doesn't infect others.

 

 

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Do you have a wedding ring worth a lot of money? If you do, is it insured? If you don't, but you did, would you insure it?

 

Thing is, you insure things because you WANT to make sure that you recoup the value of the thing in the event that it is lost/damaged/stolen. Why is a vacation any different? No, it's not mandated by law, because YOU are the only one losing out if the thing is lost/damaged/stolen. But because you are the one at risk of losing this valuable thing, you should be the one who wants to insure against that loss.

 

BTW - when your car is no longer encumbered by a lien, MOST states allow you to only have liability coverage - to cover the other driver if you cause damage to their vehicle. Which means that if you're at fault in an accident, you pay for your own vehicle's damages. Do you think states should mandate full coverage on a car you own outright too?

 

Face it, you should have bought the insurance. You didn't. And now you see WHY you should have. If you don't believe me, ask Carnival. I'm pretty sure their policy even agrees with me when I say it's your fault that you're not getting reimbursed for this cruise that you didn't buy insurance for.... And I think others in this thread (that you kinda hijacked) and the thread you started yourself, have agreed with the fact that you should have gotten insurance.

[RuthlessBoss]

Upon thinking about it more, I can somewhat understand where some of the posters disagreeing with me are coming from. For people on Long Island and New York City, Sandy was a once in a lifetime storm, and I felt that I was saying people should be given an exception to a policy for a once in a lifetime event. My employer, cable company, bank, transit authority, etc all made exceptions to policy, but they knew that they were making an exception for a once in a lifetime event. On the other hand, cruise lines deal with hurricanes on a yearly basis. Making an exception for Sandy would also involve making exceptions for more cases than they would be able to handle.

 

A similar analogy would be my employer. Like I said, they gave us 2 free paid days off, on Oct. 29 and 30, knowing that this is probably the only time we'll ever have a hurricane warranting those days off. On the other hand, we had several blizzards during the winters of 2010 and 2011, a few of which caused the streets in my area to be completely impassible. They did not offer paid days off for those storms. I willingly used vacation time for those days, but was reprimanded for doing so. I understand that snow storms happen almost every year (except 2012), and it would be too costly for them to give us a paid day off every time it snows.

You are beginning to see the light. For the poster who now has to work because the school calendar changed is no reason to get a refund (without insurance)... The storm was the event. Changing a work schedule isn't .

[Paul Bogle]

And before I hear the naysayers, a few examples:

 

 

In order to own a car you must buy insurance at state-mandated minimum limits of liabilty. In order to own a business you must provide your employees with wirker's compensation coverage.

 

 

My daughter goes to college. The school mandates that all students carry health insurance. Each student us automatically enrolled unless they opt out. Since my daughter is on my health plan, we opted out of her school's plan.

 

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Your car dealer doesn't buy you insurance, your daughter's college doesn't buy her health insurance. So now you are suggesting that in order to purchase a cruise vacation you should be mandated to buy insurance? I thought you wanted insurance included in the fare?

[ronrythm]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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If it's so cheap, than why didn't you buy it? Because it made the price higher and all most people look at is the bottom line. The cruise lines will never include it for that reason, just as they don't include tips.

Before this event happened did you ever really think about insurance? Sit down and go over a cost benefits analysis? For almost everyone the answer is no. You didn't think about it and now you find you should have gotten it. You want me to pay for insurance I don't need because you didn't get it. No thanks.

[boogs]

Not sure what the problem is. Final payment for most cruise lines is 70 days prior to departure. Cruise travel in February would be outside the final payment date, if by only a couple of days, so it probably hasn't been made yet. Simply cancel the cruise and get your deposit money back. Or am I missing something?

[Hlitner]

We are sympathtic to the OPs arguments...but also are cognizant that the cruise lines are operating a business, have huge debt service, lose money if they have unsold space, etc. For those not willing to take on the cancellation risk....there are various types of insurance option (including cancel for any reason). Life is a gamble and we are not sure why businesses should always be the one to take the gamble.

 

Regarding teachers, DW was a classroom public school teacher for over thirty years and we traveled a lot during her working years. Yes, there was often a gamble when we booked cruises (or other trips) around her vacations. We even ran a huge risk booking trips after her school year since snow days (or teachers strikes) could always extend the school year beyond our travel date. Even in my own job I was at risk if any of our various labor unions decided to strike. Although I was management there was always the chance that I would be required to work because others were on strike! Should the cruise lines have been responsible for my issues?

 

What happened to the many victims of Sandy is awful and we wish them all the best. But we are not sure why the cruise lines should be expected to bear the risk of all kinds of disasters, force majeure, etc.

 

Hank

[Paul Bogle]

Not sure what the problem is. Final payment for most cruise lines is 70 days prior to departure. Cruise travel in February would be outside the final payment date, if by only a couple of days, so it probably hasn't been made yet. Simply cancel the cruise and get your deposit money back. Or am I missing something?

 

They booked an early saver fare which is the least expensive but it comes with a cancellation penalty, and a new cruise must be booked within a defined period or the balance of the deposit is lost.

[CantanaLobo]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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Would only work if all cruise lines did it at the same time. Otherwise, the cruise line doing the insurance bundling would appear to have a price disadvantage, and would lose sales.

[GORDONCHICK]

I have posted in the past about why I feel cruise lines need to change their cancellation policies, but unfortunately, nobody here seems to agree with me. I will start this post off saying that I do NOT currently have any children, and I am NOT a teacher or staff member at a school, nor do I have any currently active teachers in my family. Therefore, I am posting a completely unbiased opinion, and I do not have anything to gain.

 

I live on Long Island, which was recently devastated by Hurricane Sandy. Because of Sandy, most school districts lost more than a week of school. Because of that, the schools are opening during February break (schools in New York usuallly close for a week in mid-February) to make up the lost days.

 

I will say that I COMPLETELY agree with the school districts making that time up. The students are expected to be in school for 180 days per year, and teachers are expected to work for 180 days per year. So, if school is lost, it is completely reasonable to have to make that time up.

 

The problem, however, is that many people have non-refundable vacations booked during that week in February. There have been many letters to the editor in our local newspaper (so I am NOT simply making up theories) from people who had non-refundable vacations booked that week. They already suffered losses due to the hurricane, and now they are foced to lose money that they worked hard for and spent on a vacation. Their other choice is to miss a full week of school. That is a lot of school to miss, especially during an already severely interrupted school year. And, teachers and staff do not have the option of just missing a full week of school. One of the letters to the editor was by a school nurse who had a non-refundable vacation booked that week.

 

I should mention that insurance does NOT cover cancellation in this case. Also, the school calendar marks several days (during spring break in March / April) as makeup days, but it does NOT list any part of February break as makeup days. The school is reasonable to avoid using the makeup days in March / April in case there are days lost due to snow during the winter. I am not fauling the school district for that, but I am just saying that parents would have had no indication that days during February break would ever be used as makeup days.

 

The last time that a significant number of school days was lost before the winter was due to Hurricane Gloria in 1985, and even then, although the lost days were made up, they did not use February break as a makeup. Even if someone booked cancel for any reason insurance, that only covers a percentage of the cost, so they will still lose a percentage of the fare (between 10% and 25%) and the cost of the insurance (which is not cheap), which is a lot of money to lose on a vacation that you don't get to go on, especially when you suffered other losses due to the Hurricane.

 

Given the severity of the situation and the unprecedented nature of this storm and the makeup during February break, I think that cruise lines (as well as airlines, and others in the travel industry) should have a heart, and allow cancellation with no penalty for travel booked during the February break. People can very easily prove that school will be open that week. This is not the case of someone wanting to cancel at the last minute since the predicted weather is bad or because they had second thoughts about the cruise.

 

Other than the cruise lines (and airlines), it seems that all other companies went above and beyond in their response to the storm. For example:

 

1. The company that I worked for gave everyone 2 extra paid days off, on Monday and Tuesday Oct. 29 and 30, because of the storm.

 

2. Our local cable company is offering credit for any days where we were unable to use our service, even if it was due to a power outage that was no fault of their own.

 

3. My health insurance company normally requires 50 gym visits per 6 month period in order to qualify for a gym reimbursement. They agreed to reduce the number of gym visits needed this period, due to the storm.

 

4. Our local transit agency allowed people to use an October monthly pass for the first few days of November, and allowed a full refund with no penalty for tickets that were purchased for use on Oct. 29, 30, or 31, but were not used due to the storm.

 

5. My bank is waiving fees and late charges that were incurred due to the storm.

 

6. The place where I rented a DVD from waived the late fees that I would have had to pay when I was unable to return the disk due to the storm.

 

If everyone else went above and beyond for people impacted by the storm, why shouldn't cruise lines do the same?

 

Again, I am posting an unbiased opinion. I do not have any kids yet, I am not a teacher, and I do not have a cruise booked that week (nor any week currently), so I have nothing to gain or lose either way. Just posting an unbiased opinion.

 

By this reasoning, the cruise lines should have provided a refund to Oklahomans for weather-related issues as well. Almost 2 years ago, central OK had 16 inches of snow and it shut down everything including schools for 4 days. The following week, we got another 12", again, shutting everything down for 3 days. Our kids were out those 7 days and had to make them up (except for 3 built in snow days, which we rarely use because we normally just get ice and maybe a dusting of snow). We had a cruise planned right after school was supposed to get out. When the school board posted where the days were going to be made up, it was at the end of the year. We talked to our principal and she said to go ahead and go - no big deal. Our son isn't sick or absent the rest of the time, so these absences didn't hurt him. They weren't "excused" but allowed with no repercussions.

 

BTW, I had to work from home those 7 days and was fortunate I had a job where I could do that. I couldn't have gotten out of our addition if I'd wanted to. Many people had to take vacation time.

[GlendaleCruiser]

Yes, you can get 100% refund with a "cancel for any reason" clause. When cruising in February, that's something that should be seriously considered as many times, there are snowstorms, flight cancelations and other reasons why young, healthy people are unable to board a ship.

 

I am very sorry for those affected by the hurricane. Disasters happen all the time: fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Which disaster should cruise lines make an exception? Insurance is for the unexpected, not just medical. It's always a gamble whether you'll need it or not.

 

Many people regard cruise insurance as just another scam or the equivalent to an appliance warranty. Unlike warranties, when you cruise, your potential financial liability increases exponentially. Don't leave home without it. And don't forget to make sure you have "cancel for any reason."

 

It is expensive and I buy it every time just for the reason that crap happens, even hurricanes, illness, missed flights, accidents, etc.

[mkam2821]

"This practice was first started in the 70's in NY. The schools closed during the oil crisis, to save heating the schools for a week. It never ended

"

 

This actually came about as a deal with the teachers' union. They got the extra week off in lieu of a salary increase. Having raised kids in NYC I can tell you that for most of us who were working parents with children in the public school system it just became another week that we had to find (pay for) child care.

[luddite]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

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Uhhhh......

No.

[Warm Breezes]

And Carnival wants to sell a lot of insurance.

 

Here's an idea. Include it in the price. It's cheap enough. And even less expensive if everyone has to buy it. Increase the risk pool and decrease the cost.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

Why would I want Carnival to automatically charge me a higher rate for insurance when I can get it cheaper elsewhere myself? I would not appreciate having my options taken away from me just because some people cannot take responsibility for their actions when chosing to purchase insurance or not. We all have the option. If you don't take it then you take responsibility for the risk involved....simple as that.