Another reason why cruise cancellation policies need to change

[seashinesunshine]

I don't have time to read all the posts so I am basing my reply on your original post.
I do agree on a slight degree with what you are saying. However, it is the choise of each individual business to decide if they are going to go the extra mile for people in a disaster. I would if I owned it.
I take issue with "the school needs to meet for 180 days" When my home town (population about 50K) was hit by a flood/fire and 80% of the town was damaged to some degree, (95% of the town across the river population 8K) the State of ND decided to waive school for the rest of the year. Almost all of the schools were flooded and very few people had homes they could get back to within a few months. The flood hit April 18th, (1997) which meant the kids lost two months of school, they gave them graduation on time and they did not NEED to go to school, because the state was flexable. Do I think our kids were cheated out of school time? Yes. Was is logistically possible to make up that school time, NO.
There is no reason the states needed to take away that winter break due to Sandy. One week of school is not that big of a deal when you look at a 13 year education. The kids probably need that break more than ever. If the state was more flexable, problem solved. Talk to your govenor and have him give those kids, vacations or not, thier winter break from school.
My sympathies to everyone affected by the storm, I have been there and it still hurts.

[songbird1329]

Requiring school to give up 4-5 days of vacation is not the same as waiving two months of education time where it was impossible for school to be in session. I don't see it as draconian. In fact, in this climate of "no chikd keft behind", "core curriculum", standardized testing, etc., waiving the requirements of a 180 day school year could be consideted irresponsible.


Not to mention, it's only November, who knows how much snow the winter will bring. Last year, not a single flake. Two years ago, it felt like we had relocated to the North Pole.

It cost us $50 per person to cancel our February cruise and rebook for August.


But the airlines agreed to Schumer's proposal. So when we call the airline tomorrow and cancel our February flights we won't pay a fee to do so.

We can absorb the $100, but the goodwill Carnival would create . . .



I think maybe it's time for the powers in DC to take another look at that "closed loop" exception . . . ;)

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[Gailerina]

The 3 days are at the will of CEO who has the authority to close. He is a great CEO and makes the choice when needed.

You can chose any day you don't want to work due to weather but it comes from your vacation hours. I would leave work if snow started landing but that is me.


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[ducklite]

[quote name='mitsguy2001']
I'm sure the people who are writing letters to the editors are probably NEVER going to go on another cruise, EVER again. The cruise lines will then have to drop their fare to attract new passengers, having lot many existing ones due to this storm.[/QUOTE]

They say that, but the reality is that very few people who claim "they'll never" support a certain business again actually follow through with the threat. As soon as they see a good deal on a cruise, they'll open their wallet again. And if they don't, whatever. There are hundreds of thousands of others who will.

[mitsguy2001]

[quote name='ducklite']They say that, but the reality is that very few people who claim "they'll never" support a certain business again actually follow through with the threat. As soon as they see a good deal on a cruise, they'll open their wallet again. And if they don't, whatever. There are hundreds of thousands of others who will.[/quote]

Good point. I in the past have said that I would never do business with certain businesses that have treated me unfairly. For a short time, I will, at all costs, avoid doing business with them. But then eventually either it will be the most convenient business or I'll get a good deal and I'll give them my business again.

[sdschwrt]

[quote name='mitsguy2001']And if the cruise lines refuse to cooperate, then maybe Schumer will propose laws that take away a lot of the freedom that cruise lines have to screw their customers. Sometimes, it is best to give in on something small (refund a finite number of customers for a once in a lifetime event) rather than risk permanently losing your freedom. Personally, I'd rather see the cruise lines just offer the refunds as a gesture of goodwill, rather than to see more laws and regulations put in place. Laws often have unintended consequences, and businesses often find ways around the law.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps Schumer should propose laws that take away a lot of the freedom that school boards have screw their constituents ruining their vacations. The problem was caused by a decision of the school district and it is the district and not the cruise line that are responsible. I can not understand why so many people can not understand this.

[ronrythm]

[quote name='songbird1329']Requiring school to give up 4-5 days of vacation is not the same as waiving two months of education time where it was impossible for school to be in session. I don't see it as draconian. In fact, in this climate of "no chikd keft behind", "core curriculum", standardized testing, etc., waiving the requirements of a 180 day school year could be consideted irresponsible.


Not to mention, it's only November, who knows how much snow the winter will bring. Last year, not a single flake. Two years ago, it felt like we had relocated to the North Pole.

It cost us $50 per person to cancel our February cruise and rebook for August.


But the airlines agreed to Schumer's proposal. So when we call the airline tomorrow and cancel our February flights we won't pay a fee to do so.

We can absorb the $100, but the goodwill Carnival would create . . .



I think maybe it's time for the powers in DC to take another look at that "closed loop" exception . . . ;)

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2[/quote][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Did you book this cruise because of good will toward Carnival or because of the price? Most likely for the price and next time you'll go looking at the price again. If you look at all the comments on these boards, everyone is always looking for the best price. Carnival's strategy is based on value pricing. They've been really succesful at that and I doubt they are going to change. Again this is not a problem between Carnival and consumer, it is a problem between employer and employee and they should be the ones to handle it, not Carnival. Just because some politician decides to pander to the public doesn't change that.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]As for the closed loop exception, do you really want to get rid of all the cruises from the continental United States? Get rid of that and the only thing left is POA in Hawi'i. Or do you mean they should use that as extortion on cruise lines so you get what you want? Either way watch your prices go up. The rest of us won't thank you for that.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Why are you insisting that Carnival pay the price for this? If you feel the government should do something about it, get them to pay for it. Carnival didn't create the problem, you, your school district and state government did.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]So when you book again are you buying insurance?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[songbird1329]

[quote name='ronrythm'][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Did you book this cruise because of good will toward Carnival or because of the price? Most likely for the price and next time you'll go looking at the price again. If you look at all the comments on these boards, everyone is always looking for the best price. Carnival's strategy is based on value pricing. They've been really succesful at that and I doubt they are going to change. Again this is not a problem between Carnival and consumer, it is a problem between employer and employee and they should be the ones to handle it, not Carnival. Just because some politician decides to pander to the public doesn't change that.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]As for the closed loop exception, do you really want to get rid of all the cruises from the continental United States? Get rid of that and the only thing left is POA in Hawi'i. Or do you mean they should use that as extortion on cruise lines so you get what you want? Either way watch your prices go up. The rest of us won't thank you for that.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Why are you insisting that Carnival pay the price for this? If you feel the government should do something about it, get them to pay for it. Carnival didn't create the problem, you, your school district and state government did.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]So when you book again are you buying insurance?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Price. Yes, the price is attractive. But brand loyalty isn't built exclusively on price.

Let me tell you about a certain donut chain I like. There are two stores from this chain in my neighborhood. I will not go to the one closest to my house, I drive the extra five minutes to go yo the second store. Why? Poor customer service in the first store.

I booked my first Carnival cruise three years ago because of price. Booked my now-cancelled cruise because I had a great time three years ago. When we cancelled the February cruise, we booked an 8 day cruise on the Breeze for next summer. The cruise next summer is costing me more than the cancelled cruise. On our cruise 3 years ago guest services helped us unravel a problem our travel agent created. If I wasn't happy on the Valor 3 years ago I wouldn't be cruising the Breeze.

As for the school district . . .while I am not happy about the cancelled vacation I can't in good conscience disagree with it. My father was a school principal, my mother was a teacher and my daughter is taking a master's in education so that she can follow in their footsteps. This is a family that values education. I am dismayed at the lowered standards I see in our public education system. Other countries put much more emphasis on education than we do, and their students achieve more than ours do. If we are to remain a world leader we need to fix that. So I hardly think giving up 4 vacation days to stay on track is a burden. If Schumer voted otherwise he'd lose my vote, and the votes of his core constituency.

The closed loop cruise exception is pure . . .(how did he put it?) malarkey. Either we need to control our borders by requiring appropriate ID, or we do not. I need a passport to drive from San Diego to Tiajuana, but if I sail from Miami to Cozumel all I need is a birth certificate? But if I have to leave the ship in Cozumel and fly back to Miami, a birth certificate just won't do. There is no logic to that, no governmental purpose advanced.

The only interest served by the exception is the cruise industry. They think they'll put more bodies on the boat if the passengers don't need passports.


Honestly, people didn't stop vacationing in Mexico or the Caribbean when the current rules went into place. And they won't stop cruising either.

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[nitro2448]

What's the topic if this thread again ? ;)


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[broberts]

[quote name='songbird1329']Price. Yes, the price is attractive. But brand loyalty isn't built exclusively on price.

Let me tell you about a certain donut chain I like. There are two stores from this chain in my neighborhood. I will not go to the one closest to my house, I drive the extra five minutes to go yo the second store. Why? Poor customer service in the first store.


<snip>

The closed loop cruise exception is pure . . .(how did he put it?) malarkey. Either we need to control our borders by requiring appropriate ID, or we do not. I need a passport to drive from San Diego to Tiajuana, but if I sail from Miami to Cozumel all I need is a birth certificate? But if I have to leave the ship in Cozumel and fly back to Miami, a birth certificate just won't do. There is no logic to that, no governmental purpose advanced.

The only interest served by the exception is the cruise industry. They think they'll put more bodies on the boat if the passengers don't need passports.

Honestly, people didn't stop vacationing in Mexico or the Caribbean when the current rules went into place. And they won't stop cruising either.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2[/quote]

So right about price not being the only determinant, at least for me. I frequent a more expensive coffee shop simply because they always fill my cup appropriately when I order a black coffee.

That being said, there have been times in my life when price had to override any preferences. I do think you are underestimating the impact on cruise lines of removing the closed loop exception. $135 x 4 = $540. For many this is a substantial cost. For a family of 4, even in some balconies this is likely going to add 10% or more to their cost.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I would have thought, if you're a child whose house has flooded, who's living in a trailer for Christmas, and whose cat has drowned, the value of a week's cruise is greater then the value of 4 out of 2340 potential days in their school career. It's less than 0.2% of their time - surely they can make the time up in college if they need to? There are children who had 4 or more days off sick in the school career - and I bet some of them, at least, make a go of their life. Education is vitally important in a child's life, but it's not the only thing that's vitally important.

I don't see where the cruise line's responsibility is for this problem, though. It's not their fault the storm happened, it's not their fault the flood happened, it's not their fault the schools closed, it's not their fault half-term was cancelled, it's not their fault the passengers weren't insured. It's not their fault so why should they pay? The remedy was easy - take out insurance. I don't want to be too unsympathetic, it's bad enough beiong flooded out without losing money as well, but I don't see any logical reason why all passengers should have to pay extra for the unfortunate few - that's what insurance is for. So that those who choose to pay extra, can.

[songbird1329]

[quote name='dsrdsrdsr']I would have thought, if you're a child whose house has flooded, who's living in a trailer for Christmas, and whose cat has drowned, the value of a week's cruise is greater then the value of 4 out of 2340 potential days in their school career. It's less than 0.2% of their time - surely they can make the time up in college if they need to? There are children who had 4 or more days off sick in the school career - and I bet some of them, at least, make a go of their life. Education is vitally important in a child's life, but it's not the only thing that's vitally important.

I don't see where the cruise line's responsibility is for this problem, though. It's not their fault the storm happened, it's not their fault the flood happened, it's not their fault the schools closed, it's not their fault half-term was cancelled, it's not their fault the passengers weren't insured. It's not their fault so why should they pay? The remedy was easy - take out insurance. I don't want to be too unsympathetic, it's bad enough beiong flooded out without losing money as well, but I don't see any logical reason why all passengers should have to pay extra for the unfortunate few - that's what insurance is for. So that those who choose to pay extra, can.[/QUOTE]

If you're a child whose home has been destroyed, a sense of normalcy is what you need most.

But let me give you a geography lesson.

Long Island is 110 miles from Manhattan to Montauk. It's 20 miles wide at its widest point. The western portion of the island contains Brooklyn and Queens: most people mean the suburban counties of Nassau and Suffolk when they say "Long Island". And while people living on or near the water suffered devastating losses (my friend won't be able to move back into her house until February), most of us here on the island had considerably less damage - mostly downed trees and power outages and the like.

The kid who lost his house isn't likely to be vacationing in February. The kid who sat in the dark for two weeks but whose life has returned to normal is the one affected by the change in school calendars.

Let me now tell you about that mere four days.


My younger daughter was very academically driven in high school. She took quite a few AP exams. Those exams are given in early May. She always felt like she was at a disadvantage. Why? Because here in New York the school year doesn't begin until after Labor Day, but in other parts of the country students go back to school in mid to late August. If she missed four days of school she'd have been beside herself.

Of course not all kids are academically oriented and many wouldn't care. My older daughter would have ranted about the lost vacation. Now that she's employed by the district . . .well, she's still not happy about it . . .

But do you want to know how much I saved in college tuition because younger daughter got AP credit?


As for the cost of a passport, you pay once and it's good for 10 years. If you're only taking one international vacation over that 10 year period, the cost of passports is a bit much. But if you're a repeat cruiser, let's say you cruise once a year, the amount you paid for each cruise rises only slightly.

For some reason, though, it seems like the repeat cruisers are the most resistant to getting passports. Yet I doubt they'd stop cruising.

In any event, the passport requirements haven't harmed the travel and tourist industry in land-based vacations.


Bottom line -- the cruise lines don't have to waive the change fee, but they would gain a lot of good if they did so. The airlines have waived the change fee, and no one here has offered up a reason why the cruise lines are different than the airlines.
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[Chigirlcruzin]

[quote name='dsrdsrdsr']

I don't see where the cruise line's responsibility is for this problem, though. It's not their fault the storm happened, it's not their fault the flood happened, it's not their fault the schools closed, it's not their fault half-term was cancelled, it's not their fault the passengers weren't insured. It's not their fault so why should they pay? The remedy was easy - take out insurance.[/QUOTE]

Actually, in this situation, the remedy was easier than that...cancel in a timely manner. There was plenty of time to cancel without penalty, or just the $59 change fee if booked via ES.

[songbird1329]

We cancelled and rebooked. We were charged a $100 fee. Certainly won't break us. But when we cancelled and rebooked our flights on American Airlines the change fee was waived. Why did the airline comply and Carnival refuse? No one has addressed it.


FYI we booked a more expensive cruise. Cancelled 7 days on the Liberty and booked 8 days on the Breeze.

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[cruiseco]

[quote name='songbird1329'] Why did the airline comply and Carnival refuse? [/QUOTE]

Why is American Airlines bankrupt and Carnival not?

[songbird1329]

AA is coming out of bankruptcy. And three other airlines, not involved in bankruptcy, are also waiving the change fee.

 

 

So why are the airlines doing it abd the cruiselines not?

 

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[Chigirlcruzin]

AA is coming out of bankruptcy. And three other airlines, not involved in bankruptcy, are also waiving the change fee.

 

 

So why are the airlines doing it abd the cruiselines not?

 

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They are waiving the fees in Feb? Really? Or did they just waive in the immediate aftermath?

[songbird1329]

Several airlines are waiving fees. It's only for people who were going to travel from the northeast during President's Week but can't go because of the change in the school calendar. AA, Delta and JetBlue agreed to waive change fees. Southwest doesn't charge a change fee.

 

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[songbird1329]

US Airways is also waiving the change fee.

 

So once again I ask why the airlines did and the cruise lines won't.

 

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[Chigirlcruzin]

Because you had the opportunity to cancel without penalty. There was time to cancel without penalty between finding out about the cancelled school break and final payment date.

 

Early saver on Carnival is the only exception to the above. Everyone knows (or should know) the rules when booking ES. You have the option to spend approximately $50 per person more to be more flexible with the booking.

[Chigirlcruzin]

And I mean "you" in the general sense.

[songbird1329]

You're just not getting it, are you?

 

 

My contract with Carnival reqiured me to pay a $50 per person change fee if I cancelled my February cruise and rebooked it for next summer. My contract with AA required me to pay a change fee for cancelling my February flight and rebooking for next summer.

 

AA waived the fee. Carnival did not. AA wasn't required to waive the fee, they chose to do so as a gesture of good will.

 

From my perspective, the $100 my boyfriend and I paid as an administrative fee was insignificant, we actually rebooked on a more expensive cruise than originally planned.

 

So why did the airlines choose to waive this fee? And why did the cruise lines choose not to?

 

 

 

 

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[songbird1329]

And "because it's in your contract" isn't an answer. The airline chose to waive what was in my contract.

 

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[Gailerina]

And "because it's in your contract" isn't an answer. The airline chose to waive what was in my contract.

 

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Carnival and the airline made different choices which they are entitled to.

 

My own opinion is Carnival is in the right. It has been stated this vaca for the school is not promised. Just as no vaca is planned.

 

 

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[Chigirlcruzin]

You're just not getting it, are you?

 

 

My contract with Carnival reqiured me to pay a $50 per person change fee if I cancelled my February cruise and rebooked it for next summer. My contract with AA required me to pay a change fee for cancelling my February flight and rebooking for next summer.

 

AA waived the fee. Carnival did not. AA wasn't required to waive the fee, they chose to do so as a gesture of good will.

 

From my perspective, the $100 my boyfriend and I paid as an administrative fee was insignificant, we actually rebooked on a more expensive cruise than originally planned.

 

So why did the airlines choose to waive this fee? And why did the cruise lines choose not to?

 

 

 

 

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You're not getting it. No one made you book ES. You had other options. If you had booked under any other fare code, you would have received a 100% refund. This is the policy for all cruise lines. You chose to book ES, which has many more restrictions. While airlines do offer nonrefundable fares, no average person books them. I fly all the time for business and I don't book them because the cost difference is so large. It's apples and oranges.

 

Additionall, like the previous posted noted, because they can. Cruise lines are in better financial shape than airlines (as a whole) for a reason

 

And good will is HIGHLY overrated. The only person that cares is the person directly impacted.