Another reason why cruise cancellation policies need to change

[broberts]

You're getting a little ridiculous with you're analogies now. All this stuff you want to try and compare is part of the cruise, which activities you chose to participate in is up to you. If you don't want to do anything on the ship then why cruise ? And if you would just look at you're own post you would see shy Carnival does not force insurance on its passengers, PEOPLE WOULD CHOSE ANOTHER CRUISE LINE. So you just contradicted you're own posts, in one post you said it would help fill rooms, now you're saying chose another line.

 

I'm not being ridculous, nor am I contradicting myself. I think you need to reread my posts.

 

Each cruise line offers a package of goods and services included in the cruise fare. The package is intended to attract as many of the types of customers the cruise line wants as possible, for the least cost. Not all passengers make use of or consume all in the package. I get that you don't want to agree, but I think the statement is factual.

 

I'm simply suggesting that in my opinion a cruise line would sell more cruises if it included cancellation insurance in it's basic "package". You can choose to disagree. Since no line includes such insurance we have no way of knowing which of us might be right.

[mitsguy2001]

I can't beleive this thread is still going on even after I said that I understand (but not agree with) where some of you are going.

 

A few points I want to make:

 

1. Cancel for any reason insurance that covers 100% does NOT exist.

 

2. I don't know how common this policy is or if it's still in effect, but when I was in high school, if we missed 5 days of school in one quarter for ANY reason, we would be given an incomplete. I was once forced to go to school with bronchitis to avoid an incomplete (my uncle passed away earlier in that quarter).

 

3. I don't know how common this is, but a few years ago, someone posted on Cruise Critic that she took her daughter out of school (in 1st grade) for a week for a cruise, and she was marked as truant, and was given a truant notice from the state. I don't know if it's true or not, but someone posted that because of the truant notice, her daughter will be permanently inelligible for employment with the federal government.

[mitsguy2001]

DH is a retired teacher and we live in NYS. Only the last 5 years or so have we had a week long break in February.

 

I was in K-12 school on Long Island from 1984-1997, and we had that February break every year. In what part of the state did it not start until 5 years ago?

 

Before that we always had 2 weeks at Easter. We were supposed to have a weekscheduled the 3rd week of April for spring break. Low and behold a couple of years ago the NYS Regents board that overseas schools scheduled the state exams during the 3rd week of April (when they had been scheduled for the first week of May) after the school year started so everybody was left scrambling to change the week off in April. Many people cancelled their vacations and many lost money who did not purchase cancel for any reason insurance.

 

Even with cancel for any reason insurance, you still lose money, since the insurance does not cover 100%. Plus you obviously lose the cost of the insurance.

 

Many others decided to go on their vacations despite what the state did, had a wonderful time and took makeups exam the following week.

 

That doesn't work if your school has a strict attendance policy, like mine did, or if you have teachers who refuse to give makeup exams. I've had teachers who would not give makeup exams and would give you a 0 if you missed an exam for ANY reason, even a legal one.

 

There are no state exams scheduled for February. That Monday is a holiday so there is no school anyway.

 

In 1994, for whatever reason, our winter break was the week before Presidents Day, and we had school on Presidents Day itself. So I don't think Presidents Day is actually a legal holiday for schools in New York. It wasn't in 1994, unless it was added more recently.

 

Teachers do have personal days every year that usually accumulate up to a set amount of days (DH could accumulate up to 10). So, if a teacher was prudent with their saving of personal days, they could still go on their vacation.

 

I don't know if this is the case in New York. But my mother in law is a retired teacher in Massachusetts. She had only 2 personal days per year, and they could not be used adjacent to a holiday or break. So they could not be used that week if the school is still closed on Presidents Day, which I think most are (regardless of whether or not its a legal holiday). I guess you could theoretically use personal days on Thursday and Friday and then call in sick on Tuesday and Wednesday, and if you have tenure, I doubt they can do much to you.

 

heheh technically February( Mid Winter Break)

 

I seem to remember the break in between Christmas and New Years being called "Holiday Recess" and the one in February being called "Winter Recess". At some point, "Holiday Recess" was no longer politically correct (even though it includes New Years, which is a secular holiday), so that became "Winter recess" and the one in February becoming "Mid-winter break", as you mention.

 

is a BUILT IN week's worth of snow days. that whole 180 days of classroom instruction thing. It's there as a cushion.

 

At schools on Long Island, mid-winter break is not intended as a bult in week of snow days or as a cushion. At least in my district, it has never been used as makeup days. The makeup days are usually during spring break (which is attached to Easter and Passover) or extra days attached to Memorial Day weekend.

 

The last time that a lot of school was lost early in the year was in 1985-86, due to Hurricane Gloria. That year, we needed 3 makeup days before we got to the snow season, since Hurricane Gloria closed school for all of the allotted snow days, plus 3 more days. Back then, the Christmas / New Years break was longer than it is now. Christmas 1985 and New Years 1986 fell on Wednesdays, and our break that year would have been Monday, Dec. 23, 1985 through Friday, Jan. 3, 1986 inclusive. That was never done again: in all future years with a Wednesday Christmas and New Years, the break was only Monday, Dec. 23 through Wednesday, Jan. 1. One of the makeup days was Election Day and the other two were Jan. 2-3. After Sandy, Election Day was not an option (many schools still had no power then) and since the holiday break is just Dec. 24-Jan. 1, they didn't have the option either of using Jan. 2-3, those having become regular school days many years earlier.

 

snow start in November in Upstate( hell it's snowed on Hallowe'en more times than I can count) and by February it's pretty easy to determine whether or not they will be needed. although one year we got slammed by a Spring Blizzard in March. THAT was fun lemme tell ya. only got Good Friday off that year as opposed to leaving at noon the wednesday before and getting the whole following week off.

 

I remember 1996 being a snowy winter on Long Island. There was one day during Easter week that year that many school districts (not mine) were using as a makeup day due to snow. But there was a blizzard causing power outages that day! So their makeup day was snowed out! I always wondered if and when they made that day up, since there were no other days off between then and the end of the year, except for Memorial Day (which is definitely a legal holiday).

[cruiseco]

Each cruise line offers a package of goods and services included in the cruise fare. The package is intended to attract as many of the types of customers the cruise line wants as possible, for the least cost. Not all passengers make use of or consume all in the package. I get that you don't want to agree, but I think the statement is factual.

 

One other point: In many states (maybe all, I'm not sure) it's actually against the law to bundle insurance in with other products/services. The consumer must be allowed to accept or decline that coverage. A cruise line could include a Cancellation Fee Waiver in the fare (a CFW is not "insurance") but that would be basically equivalent to throwing out their cancellation penalties altogether.

[songbird1329]

And this thread is still going and going and going . . .

 

Contrary to what's been said, most school districts around here build snow days into their calendar by adding extra vacation days to Easter break, Memorial Day weekend and sometimes by adding days at the end of the school year. When my kids were in school February was a good time to schedule vacation because you knew you wouldn't lose it to snow days, but you had to be careful about Easter because the vacation might be shortened.

 

 

Our PVP advises that if we cancel by 12/3 our losses will be $50 per person. My significant other is not going to give up 4 days' pay to avoid a $100 penalty. We will rebook for the summer.

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[nitro2448]

I'm not being ridculous, nor am I contradicting myself. I think you need to reread my posts.

 

Each cruise line offers a package of goods and services included in the cruise fare. The package is intended to attract as many of the types of customers the cruise line wants as possible, for the least cost. Not all passengers make use of or consume all in the package. I get that you don't want to agree, but I think the statement is factual.

 

I'm simply suggesting that in my opinion a cruise line would sell more cruises if it included cancellation insurance in it's basic "package". You can choose to disagree. Since no line includes such insurance we have no way of knowing which of us might be right.

 

I did read you're posts, and I'll stand by my statement. What is so hard to understand with the concept of, if you want insurance get it, if do not then don't get it ? Why should it be forced on people ? There are multiple ways you can lose money, this year alone I've been on a cruise, MLB games, college football games, NASCAR race, NHRA, concert. Any of those events I run the risk of having to cancel, should I be forced to buy insurance for all of them ? No none of these things are as expensive as a cruise, but it's my risk, not yours. Have you not ever bought an expensive piece of electronic EQ? Every time I do they offer me insurance, as an OPTION, not a requirement. How bout a car, when you buy a car you can buy insurance so if you get hurt, or lose you're job the payment is made for you. By you're theory the bank should force everyone to buy that insurance, cause then it would cheaper for everyone, and they would sell more cars. And since Carnival does not force it on people, I'll take it they agree with me, there for, I am right. :)

 

 

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[NoobCruise]

You CAN buy insurance that covers cancellation for ANY reason, just don't buy it from the cruiseline you're sailing with. It's too bad many people are losing their vacations, but that's the risk you take.

[NoobCruise]

You CAN buy insurance that covers cancellation for ANY reason, just don't buy it from the cruiseline you're sailing with. It's too bad many people are losing their vacations, but that's the risk you take. I don't think they need to change their policies.

[nitro2448]

You CAN buy insurance that covers cancellation for ANY reason, just don't buy it from the cruiseline you're sailing with. It's too bad many people are losing their vacations, but that's the risk you take. I don't think they need to change their policies.

 

You added a sentence, so technically that's not a double post right ? Lol. J/K

 

 

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[NoobCruise]

Not sure why it added a second post since it was edited to add that last sentence. Does that mean my opinion has double weight lol

[nitro2448]

Not sure why it added a second post since it was edited to add that last sentence. Does that mean my opinion has double weight lol

 

Since you agree with me, yes, it gets double weight :) Otherwise it only gets half the weight. Lol

 

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[WhansaMi]

I have posted in the past about why I feel cruise lines need to change their cancellation policies, but unfortunately, nobody here seems to agree with me. I will start this post off saying that I do NOT currently have any children, and I am NOT a teacher or staff member at a school, nor do I have any currently active teachers in my family. Therefore, I am posting a completely unbiased opinion, and I do not have anything to gain.

 

I live on Long Island, which was recently devastated by Hurricane Sandy. Because of Sandy, most school districts lost more than a week of school. Because of that, the schools are opening during February break (schools in New York usuallly close for a week in mid-February) to make up the lost days.

 

I will say that I COMPLETELY agree with the school districts making that time up. The students are expected to be in school for 180 days per year, and teachers are expected to work for 180 days per year. So, if school is lost, it is completely reasonable to have to make that time up.

 

The problem, however, is that many people have non-refundable vacations booked during that week in February. There have been many letters to the editor in our local newspaper (so I am NOT simply making up theories) from people who had non-refundable vacations booked that week. They already suffered losses due to the hurricane, and now they are foced to lose money that they worked hard for and spent on a vacation. Their other choice is to miss a full week of school. That is a lot of school to miss, especially during an already severely interrupted school year. And, teachers and staff do not have the option of just missing a full week of school. One of the letters to the editor was by a school nurse who had a non-refundable vacation booked that week.

 

I should mention that insurance does NOT cover cancellation in this case. Also, the school calendar marks several days (during spring break in March / April) as makeup days, but it does NOT list any part of February break as makeup days. The school is reasonable to avoid using the makeup days in March / April in case there are days lost due to snow during the winter. I am not fauling the school district for that, but I am just saying that parents would have had no indication that days during February break would ever be used as makeup days.

 

The last time that a significant number of school days was lost before the winter was due to Hurricane Gloria in 1985, and even then, although the lost days were made up, they did not use February break as a makeup. Even if someone booked cancel for any reason insurance, that only covers a percentage of the cost, so they will still lose a percentage of the fare (between 10% and 25%) and the cost of the insurance (which is not cheap), which is a lot of money to lose on a vacation that you don't get to go on, especially when you suffered other losses due to the Hurricane.

 

Given the severity of the situation and the unprecedented nature of this storm and the makeup during February break, I think that cruise lines (as well as airlines, and others in the travel industry) should have a heart, and allow cancellation with no penalty for travel booked during the February break. People can very easily prove that school will be open that week. This is not the case of someone wanting to cancel at the last minute since the predicted weather is bad or because they had second thoughts about the cruise.

 

Other than the cruise lines (and airlines), it seems that all other companies went above and beyond in their response to the storm. For example:

 

1. The company that I worked for gave everyone 2 extra paid days off, on Monday and Tuesday Oct. 29 and 30, because of the storm.

 

2. Our local cable company is offering credit for any days where we were unable to use our service, even if it was due to a power outage that was no fault of their own.

 

3. My health insurance company normally requires 50 gym visits per 6 month period in order to qualify for a gym reimbursement. They agreed to reduce the number of gym visits needed this period, due to the storm.

 

4. Our local transit agency allowed people to use an October monthly pass for the first few days of November, and allowed a full refund with no penalty for tickets that were purchased for use on Oct. 29, 30, or 31, but were not used due to the storm.

 

5. My bank is waiving fees and late charges that were incurred due to the storm.

 

6. The place where I rented a DVD from waived the late fees that I would have had to pay when I was unable to return the disk due to the storm.

 

If everyone else went above and beyond for people impacted by the storm, why shouldn't cruise lines do the same?

 

Again, I am posting an unbiased opinion. I do not have any kids yet, I am not a teacher, and I do not have a cruise booked that week (nor any week currently), so I have nothing to gain or lose either way. Just posting an unbiased opinion.

 

You can get insurance coverage specifically for work related reasons.

 

I was a teacher. My heart goes out to them.

 

But, I think this just underscores the need for everyone to get good, comprehensive insurance. My POV is that insurance should just be seen as one of the costs of the trip (like tips). If you can't afford insurance or tips, you shouldn't go.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.

[blondietink]

I was in K-12 school on Long Island from 1984-1997, and we had that February break every year. In what part of the state did it not start until 5 years ago?

 

Western New York, where it snows ..... a lot. There are still a couple of rouge districts that have 2 weeks off at Easter and no mid-winter break.

 

 

I seem to remember the break in between Christmas and New Years being called "Holiday Recess" and the one in February being called "Winter Recess". At some point, "Holiday Recess" was no longer politically correct (even though it includes New Years, which is a secular holiday), so that became "Winter recess" and the one in February becoming "Mid-winter break", as you mention.

 

Here, in Western New York it used to be called "Christmas Vacation", then it was changed to "Holiday Recess" and now it is "Winter Break". There was no break in February. We used to have a 2 week "Easter Vacation" which is now a one week "Spring Break".

 

At schools on Long Island, mid-winter break is not intended as a bult in week of snow days or as a cushion. At least in my district, it has never been used as makeup days. The makeup days are usually during spring break (which is attached to Easter and Passover) or extra days attached to Memorial Day weekend.

 

If we use too many snow days, it is first taken off of Memorial Day Friday, then Spring Break and then last but not least Mid-winter break, which has never happened since we went to the February break system.

[nitro2448]

You can get insurance coverage specifically for work related reasons.

 

I was a teacher. My heart goes out to them.

 

But, I think this just underscores the need for everyone to get good, comprehensive insurance. My POV is that insurance should just be seen as one of the costs of the trip (like tips). If you can't afford insurance or tips, you shouldn't go.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.

 

That makes two of you with that opinion. Why in the world should I be forced to buy insurance ? I gave my views as to why I shouldn't be forced to buy it, so what's you're views as to why I should be forced ? Insurance is out there if you want it, no reason to mandate it.

 

 

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[WhansaMi]

That makes two of you with that opinion. Why in the world should I be forced to buy insurance ? I gave my views as to why I shouldn't be forced to buy it, so what's you're views as to why I should be forced ? Insurance is out there if you want it, no reason to mandate it.

 

 

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Whoa there. I'm not saying you should have to BUY it.

 

I'm saying you can either buy it, or self insure. I was responding to the idea that it increases the cost of the cruise.

 

I don't know where you got the idea I was saying it should be mandated. I said it underscored that people *should* buy it.

[nitro2448]

Whoa there. I'm not saying you should have to BUY it.

 

I'm saying you can either buy it, or self insure. I was responding to the idea that it increases the cost of the cruise.

 

Whoa there you're self, you ARE saying I should buy it when you are saying it should be added to the cost of the cruise, just like tips. And if someone can't afford it, they shouldn't go. All I'm asking is , why, you think that ?

 

 

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[Algebralovr]

Having spent many years in a public school classroom, not all schools offer a mid-winter break. In my districts, we are lucky to get a day at President's day! It is usually built into the calendar, but the calendar also says that if we miss a day before President's day due to weather, then we will have school that day. We certainly don't get the whole week off.

 

Similarly, not all teachers receive personal days. In my last district, we received 10 sick days per year, two of which could be used as personal days. We were not allowed to accumulate personal days from year to year, although we could accumulate sick days up to a point.

 

That said, when you choose a career like education, you know there will be some drawbacks (besides all the work at home teachers do.)

 

The deadline for final payment for many February cruises just happened or is happening this week. Hopefully the families who chose to cruise during canceled vacations can either get refunds or change their dates. But, as a shareholder of a cruise line, I don't see a reason to change the already fairly liberal cancelation policies.

[kitty9]

The point you don't seem to realize is that MOST INSURANCE, ESPECIALLY THE GARBAGE THAT CARNIVAL SELLS, DOES NOT COVER YOU IN A CASE LIKE THIS!!!!

 

With research, smart cruisers know NEVER purchase a cruise line's insurance. I've never understood why anyone would purchase travel insurance directly from the cruise line. I've had to cancel more than a few cruises, some at the last minute, and my cruise insurance has ALWAYS reimbursed me for everything. Once, I had to join a cruise late and the insurance paid for the pre-cruise hotel in Singapore, paid for the upgrade in airline because only first class was available and they reimbursed me for the days lost on the cruise---8 days was paid back to me. And all because I had a flooded basement. So, you see, if these angry travelers do their research, they may find they can get a refund, maybe not all, but at least some.

 

I don't know about the letters to the editor, but it seems to me that knowing the superstorm was in October, well before the Feb vacation season, those who had cruises booked very well could have cancelled before any penalty period. And, if they were land vacations, you can certainly cancel with a minimum penalty. Heck, I can't count the number of land vacations I've had to cancel, and always received a refund, minus the small deposit. Even the rough and tough Disney allowed me to cancel a trip (and believe me, Disney can be tough) when my mom got sick. All I lost was the deposit. So you see, it can be done with a little effort.

 

mitsguy, regardless of whether one gets a 100% refund with insurance or not, is it not better to get something back rather than lose every dime you paid? I know that if I paid $5000 for a cruise and had to cancel, I would be happy to get 75% or 80% refunded rather than losing the full $5000.

[WhansaMi]

Whoa there you're self, you ARE saying I should buy it when you are saying it should be added to the cost of the cruise, just like tips. And if someone can't afford it, they shouldn't go. All I'm asking is , why, you think that ?

 

 

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Let me restate, in case I wasn't clear before:

 

1. I think that the situation in NYC underscored the need for people to purchase insurance, if they can't afford to self-insure, i.e. risk losing money if something happens.

 

2. In response to the OP, who stated the argument that insurance was expensive, and therefore isn't something that people are inclined to buy, I said I think that people should consider it part of the cost of the cruise. If I look at that cost, and decide I can't afford it, I probably shouldn't be taking that cruise.

 

I never said, nor do I believe, that the *cruise lines* should wrap it into the cost of the cruise. If people want to take that risk, it is fine by me.

[Charles4515]

With research, smart cruisers know NEVER purchase a cruise line's insurance. I've never understood why anyone would purchase travel insurance directly from the cruise line. I've had to cancel more than a few cruises, some at the last minute, and my cruise insurance has ALWAYS reimbursed me for everything. Once, I had to join a cruise late and the insurance paid for the pre-cruise hotel in Singapore, paid for the upgrade in airline because only first class was available and they reimbursed me for the days lost on the cruise---8 days was paid back to me. And all because I had a flooded basement. So, you see, if these angry travelers do their research, they may find they can get a refund, maybe not all, but at least some.

 

I don't know about the letters to the editor, but it seems to me that knowing the superstorm was in October, well before the Feb vacation season, those who had cruises booked very well could have cancelled before any penalty period. And, if they were land vacations, you can certainly cancel with a minimum penalty. Heck, I can't count the number of land vacations I've had to cancel, and always received a refund, minus the small deposit. Even the rough and tough Disney allowed me to cancel a trip (and believe me, Disney can be tough) when my mom got sick. All I lost was the deposit. So you see, it can be done with a little effort.

 

mitsguy, regardless of whether one gets a 100% refund with insurance or not, is it not better to get something back rather than lose every dime you paid? I know that if I paid $5000 for a cruise and had to cancel, I would be happy to get 75% or 80% refunded rather than losing the full $5000.

 

The reason we don't buy insurance with the cruise line or other travel company, only with a third party is to get pre existing condition coverage, and because if the cruise line or other travel company goes bankrupt you won't get reimbursed from a bankrupt company.

 

As far as the cruise lines changing their cancelation policy, it really is pretty liberal. We can cancel several months out and get our deposit back without penalty. Compare that with air travel. You lose your whole ticket price if you cancel or that add large fees to make changes to most air travel. The cruise line needs to have provisions and staff in place several months in advance. I can't see them making it easier to cancel than it is currently. If anything they would move to a more onerous policy if they thought they could.

[nitro2448]

Let me restate, in case I wasn't clear before:

 

1. I think that the situation in NYC underscored the need for people to purchase insurance, if they can't afford to self-insure, i.e. risk losing money if something happens.

 

2. In response to the OP, who stated the argument that insurance was expensive, and therefore isn't something that people are inclined to buy, I said I think that people should consider it part of the cost of the cruise. If I look at that cost, and decide I can't afford it, I probably shouldn't be taking that cruise.

 

I never said, nor do I believe, that the *cruise lines* should wrap it into the cost of the cruise. If people want to take that risk, it is fine by me.

 

My apologies if I misread you're original post, but that is how I read it. So now we are back to one person who thinks insurance should be added to the cruise price :)

 

 

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[mitsguy2001]

My company must be awesome, since we get 3 inclement weather days each year. We only have 1 left now of course.

 

Just out of curiosity, does that mean that the company gets to choose 3 days each year to close for all employees? Or does it mean that each individual employee get to choose 3 days each year to stay home due to inclement weather? Either way, what happens if fewer than 3 days are used? Also, wouldn't it be better to just give 3 extra vacation days?

[songbird1329]

Just to underscore the issue...Chuck Schumer just sent a letter to the cruise line association and the airline association asking them to have special consideration for families in the northeast who have to cancel February break vacations.

[marco]

I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand we have been on many cruises and other trips when folks just pulled their kids out of school for a week (or longer) to go on vacation. I wouldn't, but seems a lot of folks find it "no problem" and they do it regularly. So....get the work assignments, plan for however many hours of study time per day, bring the kids and go on the trip! On another note, most February breaks are far enough away so that final payment is not quite yet due. I've never booked a cruise where the deposit wasn't 100% refundable prior to final payment date.

[klfrodo]

Just to underscore the issue...Chuck Schumer just sent a letter to the cruise line association and the airline association asking them to have special consideration for families in the northeast who have to cancel February break vacations.

 

:eek: OMG

Well that changes EVERYTHING. If Chuck Schumer said it, then it must be golden.

 

:rolleyes::confused::rolleyes:

 

Whatever