Tipping - New Policy

[Paul65]

No mention of reasons, nor would it be good policy or good service to grill a guest as to why.

 

Actually, it would be poor policy not to ask why. I agree that they're unlikely to say that you can't remove your tips, though, even if your reason is just that you don't want to pay them. I didn't find that "Item 21" to be any more definitive that what is published in the FAQ section of the website, but even if it were, it's not actually in the cruise contract I received with my travel documents, nor the cruise contract you can link to from the website FAQs.

 

I'm not suggesting anyone just made up Item #21. It was probably in some updated version of the contract that I haven't seen. It's not unusual for RCI to have a few glitches with the dissemination of new information.

[3dog]

I'm guessing it would be illegal not to allow you to later remove the "tips" from your bill if you really wanted to, with them calling it a "gratuity."

 

They are already skirting a gray area by not referring to it (required pre-payment) as a service charge. Not allowing customers to have it removed after the cruise starts would surely open them up to some kind of legal liability.

 

The "legality" of it is indeed grey. Certainly laws local to customers where and when they make the purchase applies (MTD is a service charge, pre-pay of tips can be removed before the cruise starts, but not after), but onboard they are typically the registry of the ship, which is often the Bahamas (remember who is responsible for the investigation of the Triumph incident).

 

Fortunately for some, the Bahamian law is similar to US, in that a gratuity is "voluntary", but the choice can be offered as an "opt-out" (at least while the guest is "protected" by it's laws - what you did before you boarded isn't a concern). However, to challenge it requires going to the Bahamas, which isn't usually practical for anyone but Bahama citizens.

[3dog]

Actually, it would be poor policy not to ask why.

 

Agreed, which is why I wrote "I would hope that GS staff at least ask.." (or to state the question that should be asked: "May I ask why you wish the gratuities changed/removed?"), because at the very least, there is insight as to the customer's perspective on the policy, and it could allow the opportunity to fix problems before the guest is disappointed. The possibility of some very useful immediate feedback is worth at least asking.

[steveru621]

I'm guessing it would be illegal not to allow you to later remove the "tips" from your bill if you really wanted to, with them calling it a "gratuity."

 

They are already skirting a gray area by not referring to it (required pre-payment) as a service charge. Not allowing customers to have it removed after the cruise starts would surely open them up to some kind of legal liability.

 

As much as Americans believe RCCL is subject to US law, they are not. What they charge you after they leave port is only limited by the cruise contract.

 

I sure there probably would be someone who would try so sue. There is not much chance they would win anything other than sympathy.

 

This is not any different than you showing up at a US hotel and being charged a facilities fee that was not disclosed when you booked your reservation. There are all sorts of fees charged for everything (like an oil disposal fee at a service shop) that are not predisclosed. RCCL could call it a BUZZ fee, and just like anything else it is at their desecration if it is removed from your bill. There is no legal liability.

[postmeome]

you cannot be charged for grats ,if you do not want to pay ,dont pay,if you want to pre pay ,pay, if you want to pay at the end of your cruise in cash, pay it in cash .I do not need to be told how much i should pay in tips.

[Doug S]

Saying the same thing over and over does not make it right....

 

Interpret whatever you want from the various clauses RCI has published about it, but I personally am waiting to hear what is actually happening on the ships when someone steps up to Guest Services and asks for tips to be removed. I may have to wait a while to hear anyone admit they took the tips off (or at least tried too). If everyone on this board is being honest, very few ever take tips off, and most pay more than the recommended amount....

[Paul65]

Interpret whatever you want from the various clauses RCI has published about it, but I personally am waiting to hear what is actually happening on the ships when someone steps up to Guest Services and asks for tips to be removed. I may have to wait a while to hear anyone admit they took the tips off (or at least tried too). If everyone on this board is being honest, very few ever take tips off, and most pay more than the recommended amount....

 

Yeah, that's what I was getting at before. Does anyone have personal experience....?

[crisndeefromde]

Once again on our Adventure cruise our table mates asked our head waiter about the tips as our cruise ended after March 1. He stated this was to start on future cruises sailing on or after March 1. Each and every guest would be charged 12 per person daily for service personnel. If you decided that you didn't wish to be charged, you would have to proceed to GS the following morning and discuss why you wish to have the amount reduced or removed and GS would have the matter looked into. In the email we recieved in no way shape or form does it say that you can elect to NOT have the tips charged. Just because you don't eat in the dining room doesn't mean your waiter assigned to the table you are assigned to doesn't work in the windjammer at other meal times. Geesh. This is all crazy. People have returned from cruises that have had the new tip policy and i have yet to see anyone comment on it yet or I have missed it.

[gerif]

Agreed, which is why I wrote "I would hope that GS staff at least ask.." (or to state the question that should be asked: "May I ask why you wish the gratuities changed/removed?"), because at the very least, there is insight as to the customer's perspective on the policy, and it could allow the opportunity to fix problems before the guest is disappointed. The possibility of some very useful immediate feedback is worth at least asking.

 

Exactly. What these cheapskates don't realize (or maybe they are so cheap that they just don't care) is that when you remove tips you are not only stiffing those who have tried hard to make your trip enjoyable but it also reflects badly on their service records, thus also depriving them of raises and promotions. There were times in my life when I couldn't afford to cruise and pay gratuities - guess what, I stayed home. Wouldn't dream of hurting others who were just trying to make a living. J

[Big_G]

Wow, 84 posts before the name calling started on a tipping thread. You people are losing your touch. :D On another note, I don't know how long Celebrity has been following the same policy but we discovered it when checking our bill on day three and then received the new tipping email the day after I returned from my cruise. Go figure.

[stupendousman8]

As much as Americans believe RCCL is subject to US law, they are not. What they charge you after they leave port is only limited by the cruise contract.

 

As it's been pointed out, RCCL is beholden to the laws in the country it's ship is registered to, and since RCCL ships are mostly (I think) Bahamian registered, and their laws regarding gratuities are similar to the US, then my comments stand.

 

While it might take some effort for an individual to sue, this is the sort of thing that trial attorneys look for and set up for class action suites. The cruise lines aren't going to open themselves up to that as a policy, so it's unlikely that they would press their luck by claiming something as a "gratuity" and not building in some sort of non-binding opt out when it comes right down to it. Of course, they don't have to (and aren't likely to) go advertising their policy in this regard in hopes no one asks for a gratuity refund.

 

This is not any different than you showing up at a US hotel and being charged a facilities fee that was not disclosed when you booked your reservation. There are all sorts of fees charged for everything (like an oil disposal fee at a service shop) that are not predisclosed. RCCL could call it a BUZZ fee, and just like anything else it is at their desecration if it is removed from your bill. There is no legal liability.

 

The problem is that they aren't charging a "fee" and they make it clear that they are pre-collecting gratuities. The laws are pretty clear about this sort of thing.

Edited March 14, 2013 by stupendousman8

[critterchick]

Sure, you can still prepay. In fact, if you choose My Time Dining, you must prepay.

 

Which makes no sense any more, but of course we're talking about an IT system that doesn't exactly turn on a dime.

[Debde]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at before. Does anyone have personal experience....?

 

good question.

I'm just having a hard time not being able to give a cash tip. I'd have them removed if I was able to give cash.

 

I've always tried to pre-pay everything I can but tips never entered my mind. We always put cash aside for that and things like room service.

I'm sure its a system I will become used to but, tips, my whole life, have always seemed they should be cash, handed directly to the person.

 

I hate coming home to a huge seapass bill and tips-with a family of 5 add up. I'm still going to bring cash next trip and see how it works. I'm thinking I'd hate to hand a huge wad of cash to GS instead of the people that made my vacation just a bit nicer.

[lady_cruiser]

We booked our December 2013 cruise last June and since it is prepaid we stay at the old rate. I'm not sure if this is good or not. I'll have to wait to see what type of services I receive. While I will never take away any part of the gradituty I am not sure if I will increase it to the new amount.

 

And yes, I have been on fifteen cruises so I am fully aware of how hard the crew works, their living conditions and the small amount they are paid.

[cruiselvr04]

Just off Liberty and had the new tipping. We saw no difference in the service I am happy to say. We did give extra to our waiter and to the asst waiter. Still tipped in the Diamond lounge. Left the room steward extra as we checked out of our room at 0930 which we know puts him a little behind.

I am okay with it as long as service does not slip. We saw empty tables all week in the mdr. This would mean less tips the old way so maybe it will be better for the staff.

We have never tipped less then suggested the old way. Doubt I would ever try to remove a tip.

Edited March 14, 2013 by cruiselvr04

[FLACRUISER99]

Sure, you can still prepay. In fact, if you choose My Time Dining, you must prepay.

Which makes no sense any more, but of course we're talking about an IT system that doesn't exactly turn on a dime.

However if you do prepay the tips, they are absolutely nonrefundable. Edited March 14, 2013 by FLACRUISER99

[barbie5401]

I believe and it is just my opinion with the increase in speciality restaurants people are not eating in the MDR as often and they believed that the tipping should compensate for them not eating in the MDR. I think RCCL should ask if you don't plan on eating in the MDR then there wouldn't be all the open spaces.

[stupendousman8]

I believe and it is just my opinion with the increase in speciality restaurants people are not eating in the MDR as often and they believed that the tipping should compensate for them not eating in the MDR. I think RCCL should ask if you don't plan on eating in the MDR then there wouldn't be all the open spaces.

 

If you aren't eating in the MDR then you are either dining somewhere that requires an extra fee (and therefore, higher tipping) or someplace like the Windjammer that's a buffet where the same amount of service is not required.

 

Either way, fewer people in the MDR should result in RC either needing fewer employees, or the one's they have will be likely tipped more. There should be no loss in earned tips if they are staffing right, and no need to charge what is essentially a service fee, and calling it a tip.

Edited March 14, 2013 by stupendousman8

[steveru621]

As it's been pointed out, RCCL is beholden to the laws in the country it's ship is registered to, and since RCCL ships are mostly (I think) Bahamian registered, and their laws regarding gratuities are similar to the US, then my comments stand.

 

While it might take some effort for an individual to sue, this is the sort of thing that trial attorneys look for and set up for class action suites. The cruise lines aren't going to open themselves up to that as a policy, so it's unlikely that they would press their luck by claiming something as a "gratuity" and not building in some sort of non-binding opt out when it comes right down to it. Of course, they don't have to (and aren't likely to) go advertising their policy in this regard in hopes no one asks for a gratuity refund.

 

The problem is that they aren't charging a "fee" and they make it clear that they are pre-collecting gratuities. The laws are pretty clear about this sort of thing.

 

Restating your argument in the debate does not make it truer.

 

The laws are are not clear because you have not stated what the law in Nassau actually is at this time. Just to say the laws are similar says nothing specific. What you are charged on the ship is subject to the cruise contract and RCCL can call it whatever they like. Why can't an attorney simply file a lawsuit that says the automatic charge is illegal?

 

We agree that wouldn't prevent some attorney from filing a frivolous class action lawsuit where the consumer gets a $5 coupon and the attorneys make millions. I would really like to agree with you, but what you are posting is vague. Please tell me what 'law' applies here or is it just your sense that someone has been wronged because RCCL is not being 'fair'?

 

Thanks for responding to my post. At the end of the day we may just have to agree to disagree.

[stupendousman8]

Restating your argument in the debate does not make it truer.

 

Restating an argument in a debate, when the opposition cannot present a credible rebuttal is a perfectly acceptable tactic.

 

Someone else had posted a link previously showing that the two countries had laws that were pretty much the same. Is it your "rebuttal" that you know that the laws are different enough to warrant the Bahamas to allow what other countries legally refer to as "service fees" but insist that the are absolutely non-refundable gratuities?

 

As well, it's my understanding that Atlantis just settled a class action lawsuit from a law firm in Florida in regards to their forcing service fees on their clients, but falsely claiming them as gratuities.

 

http://www.tribune242.com/news/2012/jul/11/atlantis-settles-gratuity-lawsuit/

[caddie1]

So you opt for My Time Dining and pay service charge /Tips/Gratuities up front. You experience bad service on your cruise either in dining areas or in cabin or else where(very unlikely) what would you do?

[Merion_Mom]

So you opt for My Time Dining and pay service charge /Tips/Gratuities up front. You experience bad service on your cruise either in dining areas or in cabin or else where(very unlikely) what would you do?

 

As soon as the 'bad service' happened, I would speak to that person's supervisor. (waiter...head waiter) (head waiter...maitre d') (cabin steward....head of housekeeping)

 

If the service did not improve, I would go to Guest Services to find out the next link in the chain of command.

 

They can't correct "bad service" if they don't know about it. It is only fair to give them a chance to fix things. It's not a "get out of gratuities free" card.

[caddie1]

As soon as the 'bad service' happened, I would speak to that person's supervisor. (waiter...head waiter) (head waiter...maitre d') (cabin steward....head of housekeeping)

 

If the service did not improve, I would go to Guest Services to find out the next link in the chain of command.

 

They can't correct "bad service" if they don't know about it. It is only fair to give them a chance to fix things. It's not a "get out of gratuities free" card.

 

I was not looking for a get out of gratuities free card. I have never done my time dining and was looking for peoples thoughts on paying for a service you have not yet received and what you can do if bad service was given in an area.

[Coralc]

So you opt for My Time Dining and pay service charge /Tips/Gratuities up front. You experience bad service on your cruise either in dining areas or in cabin or else where(very unlikely) what would you do?

 

We always sign up for MTD. We hardly ever eat in the dining room. So we never remove dining tips. We have ever only had one bad cabin steward. We cut the recommended tip by $10. If the service from the cabin steward is adequate, we leave it at the suggested amount. If it is exemplary, we add more. We gave the cabin steward on our most recent cruise (disembarked Mar. 8) an extra $35 because she was outstanding.

 

The suggested tip amounts have always been the daily tip amounts. There has NEVER been any sort of disclaimer that said "Unless you dine elsewhere".

 

If you ever have a problem with service, ANYWHERE, just tell them.

[Coralc]

I was not looking for a get out of gratuities free card. I have never done my time dining and was looking for peoples thoughts on paying for a service you have not yet received and what you can do if bad service was given in an area.

 

Sorry, misunderstood your post. The tips don't really have anything to do with the quality of service. I agree with the previous post, if you feel the service is lacking in the dining room, you should speak up right away, first to the server and then to the head waiter or anyone else you can find. (they dress differently)

 

Don't simmer over bad service, just speak up and it will be corrected.