Will Carnival Confiscate All Alcohol?

[hftmrock]

to answer the OP...

 

 

 

I certainly hope so

[fuddrules]

What I am saying is that Carnival's policy is to not allow liquor onboard. If, up to now, they have allowed their employees and contractors (embarkation security) to turn a blind eye, that is one thing. If however, they decide to follow Princess' policy and strictly enforce the policy, then a crewmember would be in serious trouble if they did not report this.

 

Let me talk a little about ships' Safety Management Systems, which are required of all shipping companies (cargo or passenger) by the IMO, and without which the ship cannot meet the flag state's requirements nor the insurance companies' requirements. Therefore, the ship and company could lose it's insurance, and without a SMS and a valid certificate of class from the insurance underwriter, the ship would not get a Bahamian or Panamanian or any country's register (think of your car title) and could not sail.

 

This SMS is simply put: write what you do, do what you write. The SMS covers all aspects of how the company does business both ashore and onboard the ships. The company's policies with regards to passenger carriage are included. The liquor policy would be included. Even though the SMS tends towards many linear feet of books, all crew are required to have a working knowledge of the system, and who to ask if they have questions.

 

Now, say a classification society surveyor is onboard for the annual SMS audit, and he is staying in a passenger cabin (which he will). He could attempt to bring a bottle onboard to test the company's security policies, and then their SMS operating policies to see if the liquor is confiscated by leaving it openly in the room. If it was not reported, he would write a "non-conformity" to the SMS, which could result in the SMS not being renewed at that time, and the ship not sailing. Are you telling me that the company would not fire the employee(s) who failed to comply with the SMS?

 

I don't know shipping/cruise line work, I do however a lot of experience with insurance, auditing, certifications, licensure, etc...

And never would a small type of violation like this threaten the pulling of insurance, a license and/or certification. It takes a lot more than that.

A passenger smuggling a bottle of tequila is not to effect the overall safety of the ship. If it would, you wouldn’t be able to buy alcohol on board.

You seem to be suggesting that if bubba slips one past security and then the steward doesn’t report it, that then the ship may not be able to sail? Any real life knowledge this has ever happened or even been close to happening?

Just curious if the shipping world is that tight because my common sense and past experience tells me it isn’t.

[Cruise, J.D.]

I'm curious. I've never heard once on here about stewards being required to report alcohol in cabins. Now people are saying they are mandated to report or get fired. Sounds a little far fetched. Any real world examples?

 

The only poster I remember making this type of claim was G'ma, who I haven't seen post in a long time. Of course, she(?) never gave a specific ship or time, only that she(?) had seen it happen. Based on her(?) posting history, I gave it little credibility.

[Cruise, J.D.]

I don't know shipping/cruise line work, I do however a lot of experience with insurance, auditing, certifications, licensure, etc...

 

And never would a small type of violation like this threaten the pulling of insurance, a license and/or certification. It takes a lot more than that.

 

A passenger smuggling a bottle of tequila is not to effect the overall safety of the ship. If it would, you wouldn’t be able to buy alcohol on board.

 

You seem to be suggesting that if bubba slips one past security and then the steward doesn’t report it, that then the ship may not be able to sail? Any real life knowledge this has ever happened or even been close to happening?

 

Just curious if the shipping world is that tight but at least my common sense and past experience tells me it isn’t.

 

I agree. If you are going to make claims, come back with some evidence of it ever happening.

[Cruise, J.D.]

You're the one who brought up guilt, feeling a little of it yourself?

 

I've had enough. Sorry, shouldn't have tried to inject some maturity into this subject. Signing off.

 

Classic passive-aggressive posting.

[golfadj]

Classic passive-aggressive posting.

 

Bet when he is driving along and see that he is 5 mph over the speed limit, finds the first cop he comes accross and turns himself in.

[frayedend]

I knew better than to throw myself into a thread with the die-hard Carnival booze smugglers. Do you think any cruiser knows when their steward gets fired, or for what reason? The only ones who would know are employees, and how many of those do you think can afford cruises, let alone have the time to post about it here? Do you think that the cabin steward is the only person who goes into your cabin? Don't you think that supervisors check their work?

You're the one who brought up guilt, feeling a little of it yourself?

 

I've had enough. Sorry, shouldn't have tried to inject some maturity into this subject. Signing off.

 

Hey, I'm not trying to throw you off the deep end here. I'm sure your intentions are good. I feel no guilt because there is none to feel. The internet is vast. If cabin stewards are getting fired then it would be posted all over the internet, we would have the stories. While I know there are some workers that aren't well off, they certainly aren't living in 3rd world deserts. If they were getting fired for things like this it would be no secret. Even if a supervisor went to my cabin, how would they know when I put the booze on the table? They would not.

[Josher61]

The only poster I remember making this type of claim was G'ma, who I haven't seen post in a long time. Of course, she(?) never gave a specific ship or time, only that she(?) had seen it happen. Based on her(?) posting history, I gave it little credibility.

 

 

You mean to say there are people here with little credibilty??? :eek:

 

I just can't imagine this :D

[chengkp75]

Okay, call me what you will, JD, I call myself a masochist since I took an hour to cool off, and yet I'm back here, and primarily for one reason:

 

Golfadj: Your smarmy comment about giving the extra to the crew really set me off, because whatever you say about the rest of my arguments, that is most definitely a firing offense. Whether he is willing to risk termination by accepting is his/her business, but you are facilitating it. Tell me, is your home inspected and searched for contraband by your employer every week? Are you called to the medical center randomly, whether at work or asleep and given a breath-a-lyzer? Didn't think so. How many of the posters on this thread have worked for a cruise line? Bump? I know of a few in CC, but I don't see any of them bragging about smuggling liquor onboard.

 

You can do what you want, I mean if I were ever in the situation where I was on a vacation that I could not really afford, maybe I would smuggle liquor onboard, too. Sorry, that will be my only mean comment.

 

Frayedend: Did I say that crewmembers were being fired for this? No I did not. Did I say that they could be fired for it? Yes, I did, particularly in a case where the company policy on enforcement changes.

 

Fuddrules: You are correct that one instance would not result in loss of class certificate, however, it would cause the auditor to start looking elsewhere. Also, any non-conformity of an ISM/SMS policy requires an action plan to correct the non-conformity. Lets say the auditor writes it up as "so and so failed to notify his/her supervisor that I had a bottle of liquor in my cabin." What do you think the action plan would be? Would Carnival say, gee, lets take hundreds of hours with seminars to remind all employees of the guest alcohol policy that is already in force? Or would they say, that person did not follow the ISM/SMS code, and we will terminate him/her?

 

And everyone, if Princess has a tough enforcement policy, do you not think there will be a way to identify Bon Voyage bottles, etc? And I never said that the steward would remove a bottle from your cabin, just that they could report it to their supervisor. As for the supervisor knowing when you put the bottle on the desk, they would ask the steward, and others who were in the area.

 

And most of you are providing me with my biggest smoking gun. You all feel the need to bribe the steward about the bottle, which implies that you know its wrong, you know they know its wrong, and you know its their job to report it.

 

All I am asking is that you do not involve the crew in your enterprise. Giving an extra tip with a wink at the bottle, or stiffing them if your stuff is confiscated is making them feel complicit. Do what you want, man up to the consequences, but leave the crew out of it.

[Lovefuninthesun]

I guess I just don't get it...

Life's too short to have to smuggle anything on, worry about getting caught, etc. It would wear me out.....:o

[golfadj]

Golfadj: Your smarmy comment about giving the extra to the crew really set me off, because whatever you say about the rest of my arguments, that is most definitely a firing offense. Whether he is willing to risk termination by accepting is his/her business, but you are facilitating it. Tell me, is your home inspected and searched for contraband by your employer every week? Are you called to the medical center randomly, whether at work or asleep and given a breath-a-lyzer? Didn't think so. How many of the posters on this thread have worked for a cruise line? Bump? I know of a few in CC, but I don't see any of them bragging about smuggling liquor onboard.

 

 

Interest comment about possibly putting the crew in danger of being fired by facilitating their drinking but will make two comments.

 

1. They do not have to accept it and they are responsible for their own actions. You do realize the cruise line is happy to sell them all the licquor they want to drink at very low prices.

 

2. On my next cruise will ask someone in authority if by giving a crewmember alcohol I have left over am I facilitating a fireable offense. Dont think so but will ask.

[chengkp75]

Interest comment about possibly putting the crew in danger of being fired by facilitating their drinking but will make two comments.

 

1. They do not have to accept it and they are responsible for their own actions. You do realize the cruise line is happy to sell them all the licquor they want to drink at very low prices.

 

2. On my next cruise will ask someone in authority if by giving a crewmember alcohol I have left over am I facilitating a fireable offense. Dont think so but will ask.

 

Crew are allowed a certain number of drinks per day (varies by line) of wine or beer in the crew bar, not all the liquor they want. All cruise lines have allowable alcohol levels for crew, which apply the entire time they are onboard. I'm well aware of the crew bar, and the restrictions that are placed there, as I've had to police the place myself, though I try to leave that to the Staff Captain. The IMO STCW rules for crew allow for a blood alcohol level of 0.05%. Anything above that is reason for dismissal. Crew are not allowed liquor in their cabins. As I've stated, there are random drug and alcohol tests, usually conducted with 2% of the crew each week, and if surveillance or security sees that a crewmember is intoxicated, they can administer a test immediately. At NCL, the policy for senior management (Captain, Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, Staff Chief Engineer, and Hotel Director) as well as all Deck and Engine watchkeeping officers is 0.00%, and most lines have similar policies. That means that for the entire time that these officers are signed onboard the ship, whether they are working, resting, or even ashore sightseeing, they cannot have any alcohol in their system. A few officers, and the Hotel supervisors that everyone considers officers are allowed to buy drinks in the guest areas, within strict guidelines, and can be breathalyzed at any time.

 

Your first comment about them not having to accept, is somewhat ingenuous. That person is depending on you for the daily service charge, which is about 80% of his/her wage, so would they offend you by turning down your offer? At present, with the policy of turning a blind eye to smuggling, they are better off risking their supervisor than risking losing money.

 

Do you really know how egocentric it sounds when someone says, I know I'm doing something wrong, but if the steward reports me, I'm gonna take away his money because that's just not good service?

[Raring to go]

I recently read that Princess Cruise Lines has begun a policy in which they are making an attempt to confiscate 100% of hard alcoholic beverages smuggled aboard their ships. In addition, Princess has announced that they will destroy all of the found alcohol. A limited amount of wine may still be brought aboard, but their may also be a $15.00 corkage fee for each bottle of wine over the limit.

 

Carnival owns Princess Cruise Lines.

 

Do you think that if this policy is found to be effective with Princess, that Carnival will institute this policy on the Carnival Cruise Ships?

 

Just back from a Princess cruise in June. We carried both beer and wine on at several different ports. The security people never said a thing. At one stop, they actually looked into the backpack to see what kind of beer it was!

[golfadj]

Crew are allowed a certain number of drinks per day (varies by line) of wine or beer in the crew bar, not all the liquor they want. All cruise lines have allowable alcohol levels for crew, which apply the entire time they are onboard. I'm well aware of the crew bar, and the restrictions that are placed there, as I've had to police the place myself, though I try to leave that to the Staff Captain. The IMO STCW rules for crew allow for a blood alcohol level of 0.05%. Anything above that is reason for dismissal. Crew are not allowed liquor in their cabins. As I've stated, there are random drug and alcohol tests, usually conducted with 2% of the crew each week, and if surveillance or security sees that a crewmember is intoxicated, they can administer a test immediately. At NCL, the policy for senior management (Captain, Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, Staff Chief Engineer, and Hotel Director) as well as all Deck and Engine watchkeeping officers is 0.00%, and most lines have similar policies. That means that for the entire time that these officers are signed onboard the ship, whether they are working, resting, or even ashore sightseeing, they cannot have any alcohol in their system. A few officers, and the Hotel supervisors that everyone considers officers are allowed to buy drinks in the guest areas, within strict guidelines, and can be breathalyzed at any time.

 

Your first comment about them not having to accept, is somewhat ingenuous. That person is depending on you for the daily service charge, which is about 80% of his/her wage, so would they offend you by turning down your offer? At present, with the policy of turning a blind eye to smuggling, they are better off risking their supervisor than risking losing money.

 

Do you really know how egocentric it sounds when someone says, I know I'm doing something wrong, but if the steward reports me, I'm gonna take away his money because that's just not good service?

 

Interesting but will point out that we offer remaining licquor the last morning when we are leaving the ship after he has been credited with the tips.

 

Was not aware they were not allowed alcohol in their cabins and will check that out and if correct will not offer that in the future.

[Cruise, J.D.]

And most of you are providing me with my biggest smoking gun. You all feel the need to bribe the steward about the bottle, which implies that you know its wrong, you know they know its wrong, and you know its their job to report it.

 

All I am asking is that you do not involve the crew in your enterprise. Giving an extra tip with a wink at the bottle, or stiffing them if your stuff is confiscated is making them feel complicit. Do what you want, man up to the consequences, but leave the crew out of it.

 

I've had several cruises in which the cabin steward helped keep my smuggled alcohol on ice. I've only tipped a cabin steward extra one time, and it was unrelated to my smuggled alcohol. I always keep my smuggled alcohol and associated mixers in plain view in the cabin.

[clarkrock7]

Bet when he is driving along and see that he is 5 mph over the speed limit, finds the first cop he comes accross and turns himself in.

 

Maybe, but when he is pulled over and the cop decides to let him off with a warning, he is obliged to insist that he get the ticket, lest that officer get in trouble for not strictly enforcing the rules.

[fuddrules]

Fuddrules: You are correct that one instance would not result in loss of class certificate, however, it would cause the auditor to start looking elsewhere. Also, any non-conformity of an ISM/SMS policy requires an action plan to correct the non-conformity. Lets say the auditor writes it up as "so and so failed to notify his/her supervisor that I had a bottle of liquor in my cabin." What do you think the action plan would be? Would Carnival say, gee, lets take hundreds of hours with seminars to remind all employees of the guest alcohol policy that is already in force? Or would they say, that person did not follow the ISM/SMS code, and we will terminate him/her?

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

This sounds a lot like standard business stuff (at least with this level of violation).

 

I just think that this is much more of a financial issue for the cruise line and not much of a safety issue for the ship.

 

I also tend to think a good/experienced steward knows the ins/outs of how to handle this type of issue. The "important" things tend to ebb and flow over time. You know when it's serious and when it's lip service. IMO, it would be a true rarity that an experienced steward would get in a pickle over a "alcohol" in the cabin issue of a paying customer.

[chengkp75]

Thanks for the reply.

 

This sounds a lot like standard business stuff (at least with this level of violation).

 

I just think that this is much more of a financial issue for the cruise line and not much of a safety issue for the ship.

 

I also tend to think a good/experienced steward knows the ins/outs of how to handle this type of issue. The "important" things tend to ebb and flow over time. You know when it's serious and when it's lip service. IMO, it would be a true rarity that an experienced steward would get in a pickle over a "alcohol" in the cabin issue of a paying customer.

 

I agree, that's why I agree that they turn a blind eye, or even help out, now. My point was that if the policy changes, it could place them in a difficult position. And, unfortunately, the cruise lines, while making lots of noise about how the crew is their best asset, actually treat crew like interchangable parts, and would dump someone in a heartbeat, if it came to something that was brought to corporate's attention, which an ISM/SMS non-conformance would.

 

It is most definitely a financial issue for the lines. Onboard revenue is the ship's profit. Cabin prices barely cover overhead, if at all. This is why they will discount tickets to keep the ships full. They may lose a little on the cabin, but they will make it up with onboard revenue, so a tighter control on liquor means more bar sales.

[clarkrock7]

How hard is it for a cabin steward to tell you if there is some draconian policy change?

 

"I'm sorry sir, but they have become very strict and if any supervisors see that alcohol out in the open they will confiscate it, maybe put it out of sight."

 

That's good service, he's a cabin steward, not a compliance **** hunting for infractions. Particularly when the infractions are solely for violating policies that impact only the finances of the cruise line.

 

Safety issues are different and should be handled differently. The cabin steward in that situation is in a difficult situation, and I'm sure no one thinks that removing a fire hazard is something that should result in tip removal. Compare apples to apples.

 

Some people think that there is a lot of stress involved in smuggling, but there really isn't. If it gets taken it gets taken, no big deal. The only people who get really super stressed out about it are the anti-smuggling wackos on these boards.

[lola61]

Here is where tipping your cabin stewards pays off. They are most certainly aware of who has opened a self service bar in their cabin.

 

Forgot and left my "smuggled" rum out one night, since we had tipped well, the cabin steward placed my "smuggled" rum in the arms of a dog lol towel animal. Tip well no problem :D

[LandlockedCruiser01]

And then you place the crewmember in the unfortunate situation where not reporting the alcohol results in a couple of bucks, while not reporting it runs the risk of the supervisor seeing it and firing them for not reporting it. If the company is getting tough, then any crewmember who violates the company's policies is subject to dismissal

Here's a nice solution: if you choose to smuggle, hide the rum runners, mouthwash bottles, etc. in your luggage. Suitcases are personal property; your steward has no right to search that. (Only a high-level officer does, and even then, it'd be for drugs, endangered animals, and stuff like that.) This way, the steward won't be put in a lose-lose sitatuation: report you and risk losing his grautities that he uses to feed his family, or not report you and risk losing his job that he uses to feed his family. The corporate office doesn't care if a worker's family starves because he didn't want to lose the gratuities. But the steward sure does.

 

Don't think I'm one of those holier-than-thou types. I used a smuggling method of my own, and made it through. I kept the container stored discreetly inside my suitcase, under layers of worn clothes. It'd be foolish to leave it in plain sight on the dresser. If my steward never sees it, he never has to worry about it, or worse, fear for his job. But that's still doing something wrong. So if you're going do that, do it in such a way that doesn't throw anyone under the bus except yourself. It's only fair.

[Motorboatin]

I recently read that Princess Cruise Lines has begun a policy in which they are making an attempt to confiscate 100% of hard alcoholic beverages smuggled aboard their ships. In addition, Princess has announced that they will destroy all of the found alcohol. A limited amount of wine may still be brought aboard, but their may also be a $15.00 corkage fee for each bottle of wine over the limit.

 

Carnival owns Princess Cruise Lines.

 

Do you think that if this policy is found to be effective with Princess, that Carnival will institute this policy on the Carnival Cruise Ships?

 

Rum runners flasks are pretty much un-detectable, we brought on over 100 ounces of booze with them. And as far as the corkage fee, I buy twist off wine and drink it from the bottle.

[Terre]

On our Liberty cruise last year, I put a bottle of wine in my checked luggage since we were flying into Miami. Once we got there, I forgot about transferring it into my carry-on. While we were waiting in the lounge before boarding, we asked one of the ladies working there if they would take it. She told us it would be okay, but guess what? It wasn't.

 

Since we're Platinum, we were expecting our luggage to be at our cabin when we got there...it didn't come, didn't come, didn't come...I went to Guest Services and had a hissy fit and showed my butt at Guest Services. The Guest Services guy went somewhere and found my suitcase. The wine had been confiscated along with my fan. After more complaining about the lady saying it was okay, the wine was on the dresser when we came back from dinner the second night! I couldn't get my fan back until the morning of debarkation, though.

 

So to answer your question, yes, Carnival is confiscating alcohol.

[golfadj]

How hard is it for a cabin steward to tell you if there is some draconian policy change?

 

"I'm sorry sir, but they have become very strict and if any supervisors see that alcohol out in the open they will confiscate it, maybe put it out of sight."

 

That's good service, he's a cabin steward, not a compliance **** hunting for infractions. Particularly when the infractions are solely for violating policies that impact only the finances of the cruise line.

 

Safety issues are different and should be handled differently. The cabin steward in that situation is in a difficult situation, and I'm sure no one thinks that removing a fire hazard is something that should result in tip removal. Compare apples to apples.

 

Some people think that there is a lot of stress involved in smuggling, but there really isn't. If it gets taken it gets taken, no big deal. The only people who get really super stressed out about it are the anti-smuggling wackos on these boards.

 

Very good post

[golfadj]

Oh well this was an interesting give and take. Sorry it seems to have ended for now.