Disappointed with RCCL

[poncho1973]

That chair-thing is awful. After all the research you did and planning, this is unacceptable. I hope you get a call and this leads to improvements in the future.

 

 

 

 

As a sidebar, I love how people will fight about anything in a thread. My favorite part is when they start telling everyone how they aren't going to fight anymore and then keep bickering.

[JaneStarr]

Laura,

 

I don't have anything significant to add, but I wanted to chime in with my support.

 

I'm confident that the folks in Adam Goldstein's office are interested in getting all the facts and remedying the situation.

Jane

[broberts]

I would venture to guess this is probably true.

 

Most likely, they are reaching out to the ship to find out 1. if this is typical of these types of rooms and 2. if it is not typical, why this occurred. That will take a day or two. Once they have the response from the ship, they should be reaching out to you to get more of your side.

 

The Exec office is full of good people. And they have a lot of flexibility in what they can do for you.

 

I have a gut feeling that this room was supposed to have a real sofa bed (how else could it POSSIBLY sleep 5?) and perhaps something happened and the sofa bed had just not been replaced yet. The staff was correct that 'extras' are not kept onboard - there really is no room. This does not mean you should not have been notified and offered the opportunity to change your room and/or cruise if this is the case. That is where Royal truly failed.

 

These chairs have been around for quite a while. I recall using one on a Radiance class ship several years ago.

 

The impression I got from the OP was that this type of chair was standard in accessible balcony cabins on Oasis. Certainly it comes out that way as one reads through the thread. This is reinforced by the reports that staff indicated that a full sofa bed would not fit.

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that corporate would not know about the situation. In fact, since they would have been the ones to spec, source, and purchase the items I would be astonished if no one at corporate was aware that these chairs are used.

[poncho1973]

I can't imagine that every TA, LA or CVP knows what is available in every single cabin on every ship in the fleet.

 

From someone who chronically documents things for a living and maintains massive amounts of data... in 2013, it's not nearly as hard as you might imagine to document the status of each of every cabin in the fleet.

 

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the bulk of the information is probably already being kept and the trick would be finding an appropriate way of channelling that info to get to the reps on the phones. A database of the actual cabin contents wouldn't even be the slightest bit difficult if the information already exists locally.

 

I'm sure the room attendants have to know what is in each room prior to each sailing. Their bosses have to maintain some sort of inventory for each hallway or section. It would just be a matter of formalizing that or making it into a fleet-wide database instead of localizing it to a "neighborhood" where the actual room attendant or the next rung on the ladder is the only person with that info.

Edited May 15, 2013 by poncho1973

[marci22]

How do PVOs ensure that passengers with disabilities are able to use accessible cabins?

 

(a) As a PVO operating a vessel that has accessible cabins, you must follow the requirements of this Part to ensure that passengers with disabilities who need accessible cabins have nondiscriminatory access to them.

 

(b) You must, with respect to reservations made by any means (e.g., telephone, Internet, in person, or through a third party):

 

.........See #2

 

(2) Identify and describe accessible features in the cabins offered through your reservations service in enough detail to permit individuals with disabilities to assess independently whether a given cabin meets his or her accessibility needs.

 

Send him this link.

 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title49-vol1/xml/CFR-2012-title49-vol1-sec39-39.xml

Edited May 15, 2013 by marci22

[funfamilyof6]

I would venture to guess this is probably true.

 

Most likely, they are reaching out to the ship to find out 1. if this is typical of these types of rooms and 2. if it is not typical, why this occurred. That will take a day or two. Once they have the response from the ship, they should be reaching out to you to get more of your side.

 

The Exec office is full of good people. And they have a lot of flexibility in what they can do for you.

 

I have a gut feeling that this room was supposed to have a real sofa bed (how else could it POSSIBLY sleep 5?) and perhaps something happened and the sofa bed had just not been replaced yet. The staff was correct that 'extras' are not kept onboard - there really is no room. This does not mean you should not have been notified and offered the opportunity to change your room and/or cruise if this is the case. That is where Royal truly failed.

 

If the RCCL Customer Service Rep told Laura that this cabin accomodates 5 people, the Rep was incorrect. This handicapped accessible cabin does not accomodate 5 people, it accomodates 4...queen size bed for 2 people, chairbed for 1 and pullman for 1. If you look at the handicapped accessible feature page posted on the RCCL website, it clearly states 4. http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/ports/accessibilityFeatures.do?pagename=accessible_staterooms_popup_OA

 

These chairs have been around for quite a while. I recall using one on a Radiance class ship several years ago.

 

The impression I got from the OP was that this type of chair was standard in accessible balcony cabins on Oasis. Certainly it comes out that way as one reads through the thread. This is reinforced by the reports that staff indicated that a full sofa bed would not fit.

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that corporate would not know about the situation. In fact, since they would have been the ones to spec, source, and purchase the items I would be astonished if no one at corporate was aware that these chairs are used.

 

Totally agree...IMO, RCCL is fully taking advantage of the fact that these handicapped accessible cabins effect very few people and you can see this by looking in the disabililty section of Cruise Critic.

 

Laura was not the first person to have this negative experience. RCCL also falsely assumes that the handicapped person is using the bed as it is very clear that these chairbeds would not be comfortable for a handicapped person or anybody else for that matter!

[repo-cruiser]

I'm sorry, but I just can't continue this discussion as you still believe the rep was wrong and I do not.:)

The rep works for royal, royal was wrong therefore the rep was wrong. The information the rep gave was wrong whether they had the correct info or not, the rep gave the wrong info period.

[repo-cruiser]

You're correct. If we are going to put the blame on somebody, then lets put the blame on the correct individuals/department that put the wrong information in the planner and not the CVP that was only doing their job.

if doing their job is giving out incorrect information then job well done.

[cruisenfever]

From someone who chronically documents things for a living and maintains massive amounts of data... in 2013, it's not nearly as hard as you might imagine to document the status of each of every cabin in the fleet.

 

In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the bulk of the information is probably already being kept and the trick would be finding an appropriate way of channelling that info to get to the reps on the phones. A database of the actual cabin contents wouldn't even be the slightest bit difficult if the information already exists locally.

 

I'm sure the room attendants have to know what is in each room prior to each sailing. Their bosses have to maintain some sort of inventory for each hallway or section. It would just be a matter of formalizing that or making it into a fleet-wide database instead of localizing it to a "neighborhood" where the actual room attendant or the next rung on the ladder is the only person with that info.

Database, as in being established by someone in RCI's IT Department???? OMG, I don't think so.:D

[cruisnseas]

These chairs have been around for quite a while. I recall using one on a Radiance class ship several years ago.

 

The impression I got from the OP was that this type of chair was standard in accessible balcony cabins on Oasis. Certainly it comes out that way as one reads through the thread. This is reinforced by the reports that staff indicated that a full sofa bed would not fit.

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that corporate would not know about the situation. In fact, since they would have been the ones to spec, source, and purchase the items I would be astonished if no one at corporate was aware that these chairs are used.

 

The chairs have been around, but not in accessible cabins on Oasis and Allure - at least not as of 12 months ago. And as to the staff saying a sofa would not fit - perhaps they were told that (incorrectly) as a way to cover up why they did not make the proper notifications.

 

I just have a hard time believing this setup has changed so drastically in 12 months. Perhaps it has, but that is contradicted by the Rep's internal system stating it sleeps 5 (the website will rarely say it sleeps 5 as you have to call to book it).

[stevepat]

ok called rcll to change bed arrangements after waiting 15 minutes for someone to respond they said cannot do have to thru travel agent.. you heard me not asking for new room freebies just change bed from together to separate--they cannot do ! wow. finally called amer express to handle.

 

start 2---while on line with american express needed to clarify dining seating ---just saw seating at 8:00pm --i cannot do due to health. they say that the seated time of 5:30 was booked and rcll cannot change! hmm --i have an email from rcll stating my time was 5:30. so she says he will change code ( or somethng ) TO MY TIME AND go in and change to 5:30----you guessed it --cannot do because the cutoff was the 14 (today is 15th).. so i called rcll who said system was down go in when up and change---you guessed it --cannot do in fact the page for this will not even open.

remember we haven't even left home yet!!!!!!!!really not looking forward to this trip now and certainly would have to reconsider using rcl again but yu know what they do not care as long as the ships are filled the 1 or 2 people who complain are just a nuesance to them and they would just as well not have you use them

[funfamilyof6]

The chairs have been around, but not in accessible cabins on Oasis and Allure - at least not as of 12 months ago. And as to the staff saying a sofa would not fit - perhaps they were told that (incorrectly) as a way to cover up why they did not make the proper notifications.

 

I just have a hard time believing this setup has changed so drastically in 12 months. Perhaps it has, but that is contradicted by the Rep's internal system stating it sleeps 5 (the website will rarely say it sleeps 5 as you have to call to book it).

 

These chairs HAVE been around!! Since you have such a hard time believing that these chairs have not been around, what cabin did you have? IF the Rep told Laura 12166 accomodated 5 people, they were wrong!!! The ONLY handicapped accessible cabin that MAY have a sofa bed is 11158 because the room is larger than other handicapped accessible cabins because it is meant for 6 people. Click on the link in RED to see proof of this!

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/findacruise/ports/accessibilityFeatures.do?pagename=accessible_staterooms_popup_OA

Edited May 15, 2013 by funfamilyof6

[funfamilyof6]

ok called rcll to change bed arrangements after waiting 15 minutes for someone to respond they said cannot do have to thru travel agent.. you heard me not asking for new room freebies just change bed from together to separate--they cannot do ! wow. finally called amer express to handle.

 

start 2---while on line with american express needed to clarify dining seating ---just saw seating at 8:00pm --i cannot do due to health. they say that the seated time of 5:30 was booked and rcll cannot change! hmm --i have an email from rcll stating my time was 5:30. so she says he will change code ( or somethng ) TO MY TIME AND go in and change to 5:30----you guessed it --cannot do because the cutoff was the 14 (today is 15th).. so i called rcll who said system was down go in when up and change---you guessed it --cannot do in fact the page for this will not even open.

remember we haven't even left home yet!!!!!!!!really not looking forward to this trip now and certainly would have to reconsider using rcl again but yu know what they do not care as long as the ships are filled the 1 or 2 people who complain are just a nuesance to them and they would just as well not have you use them

 

Sorry for your troubles but if you book through a travel agent, you have to address requests/problems through your travel agent. This is standard practice.

Edited May 15, 2013 by funfamilyof6

[laurac22]

The chairs have been around, but not in accessible cabins on Oasis and Allure - at least not as of 12 months ago. And as to the staff saying a sofa would not fit - perhaps they were told that (incorrectly) as a way to cover up why they did not make the proper notifications.

 

I just have a hard time believing this setup has changed so drastically in 12 months. Perhaps it has, but that is contradicted by the Rep's internal system stating it sleeps 5 (the website will rarely say it sleeps 5 as you have to call to book it).

Are you saying that you have been in one of these cabins and there was not a chair in them??I'm confused. I was told that ALL the accesssible ocean view balcony cabins had these chairs in them. Except (as fun family points out) the accessible family cabin that sleep 6.

 

I was told by the rep that cabin 12166 slept 4, but actually had the ability to sleep 5. I figured that meant 2 in twin beds 2 on pull out sofa and 1 in pullman.

 

When I brought it to the attention of C&A and said that I was told that it technically could sleep 5, she said that would be with a roll away, not because of a double pull out. The confusion here is mind blowing.

[cruisnseas]

These chairs HAVE been around!! Since you have such a hard time believing that these chairs have not been around, what cabin did you have? IF the Rep told Laura 12166 accomodated 5 people, they were wrong!!! The ONLY handicapped accessible cabin that MAY have a sofa bed is 11158 because the room is larger than other handicapped accessible cabins because it is meant for 6 people. Click on the link in RED to see proof of this!

 

 

I never said they have not been around. I said that as of 12 months ago, they were not in the accessible oceanview balconies on Oasis/Allure.

 

Are you saying that you have been in one of these cabins and there was not a chair in them??I'm confused. I was told that ALL the accesssible ocean view balcony cabins had these chairs in them. Except (as fun family points out) the accessible family cabin that sleep 6.

 

I was told by the rep that cabin 12166 slept 4, but actually had the ability to sleep 5. I figured that meant 2 in twin beds 2 on pull out sofa and 1 in pullman.

 

When I brought it to the attention of C&A and said that I was told that it technically could sleep 5, she said that would be with a roll away, not because of a double pull out. The confusion here is mind blowing.

 

I did not stay in the room (I do not require an accessible room) but I toured the ships towards the end of my tenure with Royal and we saw several oceanview (and non oceanview) balconies on Oasis and non had those chairs - they had loveseat pull outs.

 

The roll away would explain the "sleeps five" comment - I had not thought of a roll away as we usually didn't quote occapancy based on that.

[funfamilyof6]

Are you saying that you have been in one of these cabins and there was not a chair in them??I'm confused. I was told that ALL the accesssible ocean view balcony cabins had these chairs in them. Except (as fun family points out) the accessible family cabin that sleep 6.

 

I was told by the rep that cabin 12166 slept 4, but actually had the ability to sleep 5. I figured that meant 2 in twin beds 2 on pull out sofa and 1 in pullman.

 

When I brought it to the attention of C&A and said that I was told that it technically could sleep 5, she said that would be with a roll away, not because of a double pull out. The confusion here is mind blowing.

Thank goodness for our amazing cabin steward, he tried his best to make a bed that my son could sleep on by bringing in mattresses and bedding, and building a bed the problem with that is our accessible cabin was no longer easily maneuverable for my son, as it could not be put away everyday.

 

 

The C&A rep was trying to "fix" what the rep told you. IMO, your cabin would NOT be able to accommodate a rollaway due to the fact that, as you mentioned in one of your posts, your son had a hard time maneuvering the cabin after the mattress was brought in by the cabin steward to make your son more comfortable and this would be the same reason that RCCL does not put regular sleeper sofas in the handicapped accessible cabins.

 

I'm pretty sure that handicapped accessible cabins have to be accessible at ALL times due to wheelchair use, even when the sofabed is in the open position.

Edited May 15, 2013 by funfamilyof6

[funfamilyof6]

I never said they have not been around. I said that as of 12 months ago, they were not in the accessible oceanview balconies on Oasis/Allure.

 

 

 

I did not stay in the room (I do not require an accessible room) but I toured the ships towards the end of my tenure with Royal and we saw several oceanview (and non oceanview) balconies on Oasis and non had those chairs - they had loveseat pull outs.

 

The roll away would explain the "sleeps five" comment - I had not thought of a roll away as we usually didn't quote occapancy based on that.

 

Did you tour handicapped accessible cabins that were exclusively designed for more than 2 people??? Also, just because you saw a sofa, doesn't mean that it was a sofabed.

 

Your roll away comment is not true due to the fact that this was a handicapped accessible cabin made to accommodate 4 people NOT 5 people. Again, see link in RED that I provided to you that you failed to look at which clearly states that this cabin accommodates 4 people.

Edited May 15, 2013 by funfamilyof6

[Guest maddycat]

I just finished reading 9 pages of this thread. I'm really sorry that you had such a bad experience, that you were given such incorrect information by RCI.

 

I was shocked when I saw the picture that you posted. I don't think that a chair bed is acceptable for any paying passenger. Shame on RCI.

[cruisnseas]

Did you tour handicapped accessible cabins that were exclusively designed for more than 2 people??? Also, just because you saw a sofa, doesn't mean that it was a sofabed.

 

Your roll away comment is not true due to the fact that this was a handicapped accessible cabin made to accommodate 4 people NOT 5 people. Again, see link in RED that I provided to you that you failed to look at which clearly states that this cabin accommodates 4 people.

 

I failed to look at nothing, funfamily. You've got to calm down. As I said earlier, the website is sometimes (often) wrong on occupancy and the agent was most likely relying on the (admittedly wrong) information in the internal system. The internal system is updated weekly for occupancy whereas the website is not.

 

And yes, we saw accessible o/v balcony rooms designed for 4 that included a sofabed. How do I know it was a sofa bed? Because it was made up as part of the tour.

 

Again, it is my gut feeling (based on nothing but my instinct here) that this room MAY have had a sofa bed at one time. That does not make this ok - it, in fact, makes it a lot worse in my opinion.

[funfamilyof6]

I failed to look at nothing, funfamily. You've got to calm down. As I said earlier, the website is sometimes (often) wrong on occupancy and the agent was most likely relying on the (admittedly wrong) information in the internal system. The internal system is updated weekly for occupancy whereas the website is not.

 

And yes, we saw accessible o/v balcony rooms designed for 4 that included a sofabed. How do I know it was a sofa bed? Because it was made up as part of the tour.

 

Again, it is my gut feeling (based on nothing but my instinct here) that this room MAY have had a sofa bed at one time. That does not make this ok - it, in fact, makes it a lot worse in my opinion.

 

I am a very calm person, but I will say when I do post, it is based on more than a "gut feeling".

 

I got the red link from the RCCL website, I would think the rep's internal system would be as accurate as that since as even you posted the internal system is updated weekly. There are postings in the disabled cruise travel section of Cruise Critic that these "chairbeds" existed more than a year ago. Here is one example for you to read though that was posted more than a year ago ...... http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1613947&highlight=chair+bed+not+sofa+bed

[laurac22]

I failed to look at nothing, funfamily. You've got to calm down. As I said earlier, the website is sometimes (often) wrong on occupancy and the agent was most likely relying on the (admittedly wrong) information in the internal system. The internal system is updated weekly for occupancy whereas the website is not.

 

And yes, we saw accessible o/v balcony rooms designed for 4 that included a sofabed. How do I know it was a sofa bed? Because it was made up as part of the tour.

 

Again, it is my gut feeling (based on nothing but my instinct here) that this room MAY have had a sofa bed at one time. That does not make this ok - it, in fact, makes it a lot worse in my opinion.

If this is true, then they are taking the chairs and the sofas in and out of the rooms all the time. I found posts dating quite a way back complaining or just mentioning the chairs and no sofa. It makes no sense that royal would do this?? Something doesn't add up.

[Ians Grandma]

Laura, I also travel with my adult son that is a full time wheelchair user. We have had our share of challenges when it comes to cabins as well. I travel with 2 of my sons so we always request that the beds be made up as twins (we never had a problem with that) but we have had a sofa bed problem. In our case, I sleep in the sofa bed as I am the smallest person and I don't mind. The problem was that when the bed was made out at night. If my son needed to use the bathroom I had to get up and make up the bed so that he had room to get to the facilities. This problem would have been the same no matter which bed that he was sleeping in. It was solved for us when they brought in a rollaway which was set up between the twins. There was not an inch to spare but it fit. I had to crawl into bed but it didn't bother me, my son could get around, and we ended up having a great cruise.

On another cruise the sofa was located so that the bathroom door couldn't open fully which we needed so that my disabled son could easily get in and out. I just rearranged the furniture so that it worked and no one said a thing.:)

[awhcruiser]

See the maitre'd when you get on the ship to see if you can get early dining.

ok called rcll to change bed arrangements after waiting 15 minutes for someone to respond they said cannot do have to thru travel agent.. you heard me not asking for new room freebies just change bed from together to separate--they cannot do ! wow. finally called amer express to handle.

 

start 2---while on line with american express needed to clarify dining seating ---just saw seating at 8:00pm --i cannot do due to health. they say that the seated time of 5:30 was booked and rcll cannot change! hmm --i have an email from rcll stating my time was 5:30. so she says he will change code ( or somethng ) TO MY TIME AND go in and change to 5:30----you guessed it --cannot do because the cutoff was the 14 (today is 15th).. so i called rcll who said system was down go in when up and change---you guessed it --cannot do in fact the page for this will not even open.

remember we haven't even left home yet!!!!!!!!really not looking forward to this trip now and certainly would have to reconsider using rcl again but yu know what they do not care as long as the ships are filled the 1 or 2 people who complain are just a nuesance to them and they would just as well not have you use them

[katrina915]

Laura,

Good luck and keep pursueing not only for yourself, but for the rest of us that travel with special needs companions.

 

Don't feel too bad about your reaction. On my first cruise with wheelchair companion (which was transatlantic), I was at guest relations at 3am on first night asking how I could get off the ship and it was nothing compared to what you are dealing with. Fortunately, things got better and have had more RCI cruises. All cruise lines need to work on special needs areas. My TA actually says RCI is one of the better ones. But land trips aren't much better and sometimes worse.

 

To people that that think number of disabled passengers are minimal due to lack of activity on disabled CC forum, I would like to point out a few things. First of all, I have to book far in advance to get accessible cabin (no cabins available on 3 cruises I looked at one year out) and some people just book regular cabins. And sometimes we get so overwhelmed and frustrated that we just accept the rude people in elevators, lack of seating in theatres, etc. etc. We only have so much energy.

 

Laura- I just fought with RCI for price drop on accessible cabin (originally told that eventhough stateroom category had price drop that they wouldn't give price drop to me since NO wheelchair accessible cabins left). They eventually gave it to me.

 

Good luck and don't give up traveling in some form.

[laurac22]

Laura,

Good luck and keep pursueing not only for yourself, but for the rest of us that travel with special needs companions.

 

Don't feel too bad about your reaction. On my first cruise with wheelchair companion (which was transatlantic), I was at guest relations at 3am on first night asking how I could get off the ship and it was nothing compared to what you are dealing with. Fortunately, things got better and have had more RCI cruises. All cruise lines need to work on special needs areas. My TA actually says RCI is one of the better ones. But land trips aren't much better and sometimes worse.

 

To people that that think number of disabled passengers are minimal due to lack of activity on disabled CC forum, I would like to point out a few things. First of all, I have to book far in advance to get accessible cabin (no cabins available on 3 cruises I looked at one year out) and some people just book regular cabins. And sometimes we get so overwhelmed and frustrated that we just accept the rude people in elevators, lack of seating in theatres, etc. etc. We only have so much energy.

 

Laura- I just fought with RCI for price drop on accessible cabin (originally told that eventhough stateroom category had price drop that they wouldn't give price drop to me since NO wheelchair accessible cabins left). They eventually gave it to me.

 

Good luck and don't give up traveling in some form.

I had to laugh at you saying that you were at guest relations trying to get off the ship!!LOL I wasn't that bad, but before we left port in Fort Lauderdale I was sitting on the balcony crying telling my husband that I wanted to go home. I figured if it was this bad before we even left port, what was going to happen in the middle of the ocean! My husband who was much calmer than I said we cant leave we don't have our luggage:))

 

I won't go into detail about all that happened on this cruise, but I know its a problem for able body cruisers to get out of the elevators, I can not tell you how many extra trips we made going up and down on the elevators, because we could not get off. After a while we would just laugh about it. We actually kept score:). Just gotta keep on going right. Oh and your right about booking a accessible room. Sometimes impossible.