Choice Air... more headache than help?

[RickT]

 

Also, I was not expecting "warm and cuddly" replies. I was expecting respectful ones. There were several replies which I would not consider warm and cuddly, but they didn't make me feel worse about a situation that I already feel bad about. You are right, Greatam had some valuable information and I hope others can benefit from it in the future, but then just leave it at that, no need to be unkind. Sometimes I am shocked to see how others react on here to one another. Maybe I am just an idealist. :o

 

Anyway, thanks for your input :)

 

Don't let one of two people on this forum turn you off. And as far as greatam having valuable information that's open to debate. Here is the link to the choice air page from the celebrity forum. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1449882

 

It certainly contradicts some of the information he is gleefully dishing out especially the part about Celebrity using consolidator fares. Maybe things have changed since the sticky was put into place but last year when I had a problem my ticket was treated the same as others who also missed the connecting flight and who booked directly with the airline.

 

I've used and will continue to use Choice Air especially when it provides decent airfare. Good luck reaching a supervisor and hopefully they can provide clarity.

[misslyss1220]

Don't let one of two people on this forum turn you off. And as far as greatam having valuable information that's open to debate. Here is the link to the choice air page from the celebrity forum. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1449882

 

It certainly contradicts some of the information he is gleefully dishing out especially the part about Celebrity using consolidator fares. Maybe things have changed since the sticky was put into place but last year when I had a problem my ticket was treated the same as others who also missed the connecting flight and who booked directly with the airline.

 

I've used and will continue to use Choice Air especially when it provides decent airfare. Good luck reaching a supervisor and hopefully they can provide clarity.

 

Thank you! That is very helpful and I am glad to hear you like ChoiceAir :)

[Jade13]

Don't let one of two people on this forum turn you off. And as far as greatam having valuable information that's open to debate. Here is the link to the choice air page from the celebrity forum. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1449882

 

It certainly contradicts some of the information he is gleefully dishing out especially the part about Celebrity using consolidator fares. Maybe things have changed since the sticky was put into place but last year when I had a problem my ticket was treated the same as others who also missed the connecting flight and who booked directly with the airline.

 

I've used and will continue to use Choice Air especially when it provides decent airfare. Good luck reaching a supervisor and hopefully they can provide clarity.

 

Is this what you reference? This is from 2 years ago so do not know if it is up to date or not. Would like to see the info direct from the Choice Air web page.

 

======================================================

 

From Host Andy -

 

 

Choice Air: Helpful Information

Hi Everyone !

 

I recently had the opportunity to meet with Troy Martin, Director of Travel Services for Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. Troy shared with me what his team has been working on, with their guest air programs for Azamara Club Cruises, Celebrity Cruises, and Royal Caribbean. He said that if the opportunity came up to share what we discussed, that he would be glad to get the word out - and would also be happy to answer any follow up questions. Here's what I learned:

 

 

Background

 

In 2009 Azamara Club Cruises, Celebrity Cruises, and Royal Caribbean International rolled out a new air program called ChoiceAir, that was a major departure from the traditional cruise air programs. The drivers behind the new program were to improve customer experience and to adopt a model more consistent with today's more internet savvy consumers - and airlines. ChoiceAir was designed for travelers who make their purchases online at airline and consumer travel websites. It gives them visibility to all of the airlines' schedules and fares that are published, as well as some private negotiated fares on those same flights. The Cruise lines' guests are able to select their flights, study the fare rules, request special services, receive frequent flyer credit, and assign their seats. While this seems fairly basic for a travel website, prior to 2009... none of this was available when purchasing through a cruise line. Choice Air is currently offered in the US and Canada, though the company is evaluating opportunities for all of its international offices as well. In addition to booking ChoiceAir through your travel agent, you can go on the site and book your own. Two of the key value propositions are that the fares are very competitive, and the company provides their Assured Arrival Service. Since both of these offerings have been the topic of several Cruise Critic threads, Troy shared his insights on what is entailed.

 

Competitive Fares

 

RCCL offers nearly all of the same fares offered on consumer and airline websites - typically referred to as published fares, and some web fares. As is typical on the various websites, occasionally you will find a lower fare on one that is not available on the other. This is usually due to timing and airline inventory fluctuations, but for the most part you will see parity. On many routes, you will also find some special RCCL rates that have been negotiated with the airlines. These rates are especially good when shopping closer in, traveling internationally - and even more-so on open jaw (Fly into one city and out of a different city) or one way trips, when many published fares are more expensive. So while there may be some anomalies, you will typically find the same published fares - or better - on ChoiceAir. A frequent topic on Cruise Critic is the value and challenges with Consolidator tickets/fares. Those are not available through ChoiceAir. All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar. The travelers have all of the airline and RCCL services available to them, and are subject to the airlines rules and restrictions. Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares.

 

ChoiceAir: Assured Arrival

 

RCCL is very interested in ensuring you get to your Cruise, and takes advantage of knowing your travel arrangements to monitor your flights, intervening when possible to avert delays due to airline schedule changes, delays, and cancellations. When they are unable to act pre-emptively, they will continue to work with the traveler and airline to find an alternate route - even on another airline - at no additional cost to the guest. This service includes getting the guest to the original embarkation port, or the next available port whenever it is practical. They cover the modified airline ticket, hotels en route (when necessary) and ground transfers. At times, there is controversy over whether this is a guarantee. The truth is... it's not a guarantee. If there are massive flight cancellations for many days due to natural disasters, or if there are simply no commercial seats available that will enable them to re-route, they clearly will not be able to make it happen. If there are government regulations (Jones Act) that preclude the guest from joining in another port (Most often an issue for Alaska, Hawaii, and New England/Canada sailings), they will not be able to help. However, in the vast majority of the situations when flights are delayed or canceled due to weather and mechanicals, the company has been able to get the guest to the ship to enjoy most or all of their Cruise vacation. This is not insurance or a guarantee, but an additional service provided exclusively for guests who book air with them. The benefit to the customer is they have a point of contact if things go wrong, they do not have to spend any money up-front, or file a claim to take advantage of the service.

 

Who owns ChoiceAir ?

 

There is a misconception that ChoiceAir is either a 3rd party website or fulfillment agency. This is not the case. It is a department within RCCL using RCCL technology, and the types of reservations systems used by travel agencies, airlines, and consumer sites around the world.

 

ChoiceAir is a great option for "Do-it-Yourselfers"

 

Troy mentioned that many travel agencies are happy to book ChoiceAir for their customers, and that it is also a great option for people who prefer to "do their own air..." With ChoiceAir, you can shop other sites for pricing and, when ChoiceAir provides comparable or better value, you should feel very comfortable that you will get even more service thana consolidator, consumer site, or even the airline themselves.

 

 

I hope you find Troy's information helpful. If you have questions, please post on this thread, and I will forward your questions to Troy for his response. Please do not ask questions pertaining to your specific booking. Please be patient, as questions will be answered when time permits. Thank you !

[biker1972]

Since Greatam is a non-practicing attorney who runs her own import/transportation company and happily takes time from her busy day, to help here with some of the most right-on information that we can get, I applauded her! Here, Here!!!!

[RickT]

Jade13,

 

I am aware that the post is 2 yrs old. I checked with Air Canada (my latest choice air flights) and they confirmed that my trip to Rome booked through choice air is the exact same ticket that I would have been issued had I bought it from them directly. It is NOT a consolidator ticket or other type of more restricted ticket.

 

My point is that not all cruise air is the same (just as not all cruise lines are the same). I've definitely been issued consolidator tickets from other cruise lines especially those that won't allow you to select your specific flights. My experience so far with choice air is that I am getting the same ticket I would get from the airline directly. And yes, I do choose the least expensive ticket and understand that even with choice air there will be penalties for making changes to the ticket, just as there would be if I booked directly with the airline.

[Riverroad]

Since Greatam is a non-practicing attorney who runs her own import/transportation company and happily takes time from her busy day, to help here with some of the most right-on information that we can get, I applauded her! Here, Here!!!!

 

+1! And 2 more Here, Heres!

[Cruise Junky]

Jade13,

 

I am aware that the post is 2 yrs old. I checked with Air Canada (my latest choice air flights) and they confirmed that my trip to Rome booked through choice air is the exact same ticket that I would have been issued had I bought it from them directly. It is NOT a consolidator ticket or other type of more restricted ticket.

 

 

I don't think Air Canada participates much in Consolidator fares anyway so yes, you didn't get consolidator fares for your ticket..BUT lots of other airlines do and while Choice Air doesn't call them Consolidator tickets, they can still be highly restrictive and as Jade pointed out, not reroutable. Quacks like a duck.....

[Jade13]

Since Greatam is a non-practicing attorney (Didn't know that) who runs her own import/transportation company (Did know that) and happily takes time from her busy day, to help here with some of the most right-on information that we can get, I applauded her! Here, Here!!!!

 

I appreciate the help too, but much better to come here first and get advice on what to book.

[Jade13]

Jade13,

 

I am aware that the post is 2 yrs old. I checked with Air Canada (my latest choice air flights) and they confirmed that my trip to Rome booked through choice air is the exact same ticket that I would have been issued had I bought it from them directly. It is NOT a consolidator ticket or other type of more restricted ticket.

 

My point is that not all cruise air is the same (just as not all cruise lines are the same). I've definitely been issued consolidator tickets from other cruise lines especially those that won't allow you to select your specific flights. My experience so far with choice air is that I am getting the same ticket I would get from the airline directly. And yes, I do choose the least expensive ticket and understand that even with choice air there will be penalties for making changes to the ticket, just as there would be if I booked directly with the airline.

 

We have had non-consolidator tickets booked through Choice Air, twice on SWISS, and once paid the $250.00 change fee to move the flights and also re-route them (Which Azamara/Choice Air deducted from our new cruise itinerary since we wanted to be moved after a severe itinerary change).

[waterbug123]

And as far as greatam having valuable information that's open to debate. Here is the link to the choice air page from the celebrity forum. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1449882

 

It certainly contradicts some of the information he is gleefully dishing out especially the part about Celebrity using consolidator fares.

 

It's no secret that Choice Air says they do not sell consolidator tickets. And I guess technically they don't. But read the info in the link again. While they sell some regular, published fares, they also sell some tickets that they artfully refer to as "specially negotiated fares." A rose by any other name.....

 

By the way, Greatam is a she, not a he.

[odysee]

You are correct-your TA and Choice Air are pounding sand. Sheer BS about the endorsable option. What your ticket also says although unspoken or written is the ticket is NON reroutable.

 

While there may NOT be another nonstop flight from JFK to Dubai, with a "normal", airline purchased ticket, Emirates will put you on another airline. Might even put you on the shuttle to Washington, DC, then non stop into Dubai. There are so many options-through Europe, through Northern Africa, even through Asia. BUT your ticket also says NO REROUTING so those options are NOT available as they would be with an airline purchased ticket.

 

But you WON'T get that with your Choice Air ticket BECAUSE the RULES prohibit it.

 

Are you sure you would get all these option if you booked the - cheapest fare - directly ? I have noticed that when I book the cheapest category return ticket directly with the airlines, they are non endorsable, non refundable, non changeable, non reroutable as well. Not even with a "change fee" could I change dates or flights on some of those Cheapos I bought directly. Only the higher priced tickets are more flexible and you can book these as well through Choice Air.

[Jade13]

Are you sure you would get all these option if you booked the - cheapest fare - directly ? I have noticed that when I book the cheapest category return ticket directly with the airlines, they are non endorsable, non refundable, non changeable, non reroutable as well. Not even with a "change fee" could I change dates or flights on some of those Cheapos I bought directly. Only the higher priced tickets are more flexible and you can book these as well through Choice Air.

 

I have the same question. Not only that, but what about flights booked using FFmiles? I think those put you close to the bottom of the barrel as far as being put on another plane should a flight be canceled or missed connection due to late arrival.

[Cruise Junky]

I have the same question. Not only that, but what about flights booked using FFmiles? I think those put you close to the bottom of the barrel as far as being put on another plane should a flight be canceled or missed connection due to late arrival.

 

Not in my experience and I've had stuff hit the fan flying on points. They switched me to a different airline on a different route. I also buy the cheapest ticket through an airline.

[Twickenham]

Not in my experience and I've had stuff hit the fan flying on points. They switched me to a different airline on a different route. I also buy the cheapest ticket through an airline.

 

Same here. Once was doing YQB-YYZ-PHL-FLL on points (with PHL-FLL on US, rest on AC), and PHL was closed due to high winds, so got put on a YYZ-MIA flight on AC instead.

[waterbug123]

Are you sure you would get all these option if you booked the - cheapest fare - directly ? I have noticed that when I book the cheapest category return ticket directly with the airlines, they are non endorsable, non refundable, non changeable, non reroutable as well. Not even with a "change fee" could I change dates or flights on some of those Cheapos I bought directly. Only the higher priced tickets are more flexible and you can book these as well through Choice Air.

 

I fly at least once a month and routinely buy the cheapest published fare available. At least several times in the last couple of years I've had to change my flight. A couple of times it was purely for my own convenience, so certainly not the airline's fault. I have never been told, "no, even if you pay a fee you cannot change your flight." I have changed travel dates, and I have changed airports as well, by paying a change fee (although sometimes they actually waived the fee). So it's just not true that only the higher priced tickets have flexibility. Not saying there isn't a cheap published fare out there that absolutely can't be changed, but generally with published fare tickets, when they say, for example, "non changeable" it really means "can't be changed without paying a fee."

I only have 1 experience that I can recall with a ticket being endorsed to another airline, and again it wasn't an issue. A few years ago flying from Charleston to Ft. Lauderdale via Atlanta. Flight out of CHS was delayed, first by weather then by mechanical. It appeared probable that I would miss my connection so I called Delta to get rebooked on a later connection. It was a Friday afternoon/evening and all flights were booked. I offered to fly into West Palm or Miami instead, if that helped but those were booked too. So instead Delta endorsed my ticket over to American and put me on a nonstop from CHS to Miami an hour later. Again, this was one of the cheapest published fares offered by Delta.

[Michidoeme]

...

[toberman]

Since Greatam is a non-practicing attorney who runs her own import/transportation company and happily takes time from her busy day, to help here with some of the most right-on information that we can get, I applauded her! Here, Here!!!!

 

Agree.. and she just doesn't have time for the BS that comes thru from these so-called 'non consolidators'. Would trust her input in a heartbeat!!

I just don't have the experience, or time, to do all the research that she gives me in a few minutes.

[greatam]

Are you sure you would get all these option if you booked the - cheapest fare - directly ? I have noticed that when I book the cheapest category return ticket directly with the airlines, they are non endorsable, non refundable, non changeable, non reroutable as well. Not even with a "change fee" could I change dates or flights on some of those Cheapos I bought directly. Only the higher priced tickets are more flexible and you can book these as well through Choice Air.

 

 

Cheapest tickets are almost always NON REFUNDABLE. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen one that was. BUT as waterbug123 posted, I have RARELY, if ever, see a published fare ticket that was NOT changeable or reroutable WITH the proper change fee AND very often an upcharge in air fare.

 

Example: $500 ticket. $150 change fee. You now have $350 in RESIDUAL value to use on another ticket on another routing to another destination or the same destination, just a different time or date and in THAT case, you MAY not even have to pay any additional air fare.

 

As I posted previously, when the cruise lines start negotiating with the airlines for tickets and the airlines sell the tickets to the cruise line at BARGAIN prices, the airline basically wipes their hands of ANYTHING that would be extra work for them. They are simply looking for cash flow. AND the airline dictates what the terms of the tickets are. Cruise lines either agree or find another source.

 

Non endorsable on a bulk purchased, "specially negotiated rates", cruise package, vacation package or CONSOLIDATOR (they are all basically the same type of bulk purchased tickets) is one of the VERY, VERY common RULES applied to these types of tickets. Non reroutable is another. Why would an airline spend a lot of agent time trying to re-route a passenger on a bargain basement ticket when they can just put you on the same flight, same routing at a later time (may be a day later but that is the breaks of the game).

 

Published fare tickets are generally endorsable (it may not say it in writing but most airlines will endorse if needed AND you ask for what you want instead of leaving it up to the agent). I used to love to book the AA flight from PHX to Chicago at 3:30PM, change to the nonstop to LHR about 9PM. Almost GUARANTEED that my cheapo ticket (even with a miles upgrade) would get me on the BA nonstop out of PHX at 6:30PM because I may not make the connection in Chicago to London. AA got wise to that and has now discontinued the 3:30 flight to Chicago if you want to connect to the London flight. But even my VERY, VERY cheap tickets got endorsed to BA all the time.

 

If the airlines only get a small amount of money for the ticket, why would they do any extra work? AND in addition, you are now the customer of the CRUISE LINE, NOT the airline. The cruise line owns the tickets until you buy one. The tickets are essentially "sitting on the shelf" or in the new parlance of Choice Air, they got dumped into the fancy, schmancy website along with the generally much higher priced published fare tickets.

 

BUT and this is the BIG BUT-how do you know what you purchased? VERY, VERY often you don't. The rules that are available on the Choice Air website are VERY scant. I have seen them so scant they basically say you have to pay for luggage. Well, DUH!!!

 

Until you can read the ENTIRE fare rules (and sometimes they are a couple of pages long of very small print), you really have NO idea what you purchased or what rules your ticket falls under. But I can almost guarantee that any time you see a ticket that is several hundred dollars BELOW what a published fare sells for (with ALL the rules available), you are NOT buying the same ticket you would have purchased from the airline direct. MAY be the same flight#, same plane, yes, you may be able to pick your seats BUT the underlying premise of the ticket and the RULES can be very, very different and totally trash your vacation if there is a glitch.

 

And this is especially true of ONE WAY tickets overseas. The cruiseline/airline make a deal to sell ROUND TRIP tickets. Then the cruise line issues 1/2 to one passenger and 1/2 to another. Americans look for one way tickets to Europe/Asia, etc. etc. on the US airlines. US airlines DO NOT sell competitively priced one way international tickets. So look to a few of the foreign airlines that sell TRUE one way tickets at competitive prices or find posts by Gardyloo on how to buy AA miles and get that one way ticket at a very good price.

[greatam]

Agree.. and she just doesn't have time for the BS that comes thru from these so-called 'non consolidators'. Would trust her input in a heartbeat!!

I just don't have the experience, or time, to do all the research that she gives me in a few minutes.

 

Thanks

 

And you can still be my friend and follow me around for more than a year but you have to acquire your own miles for all those upgrades!!!! I don't do coach well!!!

[toberman]

Thanks

 

And you can still be my friend and follow me around for more than a year but you have to acquire your own miles for all those upgrades!!!! I don't do coach well!!!

 

Too funny... Kisses !!

[odysee]

Cheapest tickets are almost always NON REFUNDABLE. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen one that was. BUT as waterbug123 posted, I have RARELY, if ever, see a published fare ticket that was NOT changeable or reroutable WITH the proper change fee AND very often an upcharge in air fare.

 

Example: $500 ticket. $150 change fee. You now have $350 in RESIDUAL value to use on another ticket on another routing to another destination or the same destination, just a different time or date and in THAT case, you MAY not even have to pay any additional air fare.

 

As I posted previously, when the cruise lines start negotiating with the airlines for tickets and the airlines sell the tickets to the cruise line at BARGAIN prices, the airline basically wipes their hands of ANYTHING that would be extra work for them. They are simply looking for cash flow. AND the airline dictates what the terms of the tickets are. Cruise lines either agree or find another source.

 

Non endorsable on a bulk purchased, "specially negotiated rates", cruise package, vacation package or CONSOLIDATOR (they are all basically the same type of bulk purchased tickets) is one of the VERY, VERY common RULES applied to these types of tickets. Non reroutable is another. Why would an airline spend a lot of agent time trying to re-route a passenger on a bargain basement ticket when they can just put you on the same flight, same routing at a later time (may be a day later but that is the breaks of the game).

 

Published fare tickets are generally endorsable (it may not say it in writing but most airlines will endorse if needed AND you ask for what you want instead of leaving it up to the agent). I used to love to book the AA flight from PHX to Chicago at 3:30PM, change to the nonstop to LHR about 9PM. Almost GUARANTEED that my cheapo ticket (even with a miles upgrade) would get me on the BA nonstop out of PHX at 6:30PM because I may not make the connection in Chicago to London. AA got wise to that and has now discontinued the 3:30 flight to Chicago if you want to connect to the London flight. But even my VERY, VERY cheap tickets got endorsed to BA all the time.

 

If the airlines only get a small amount of money for the ticket, why would they do any extra work? AND in addition, you are now the customer of the CRUISE LINE, NOT the airline. The cruise line owns the tickets until you buy one. The tickets are essentially "sitting on the shelf" or in the new parlance of Choice Air, they got dumped into the fancy, schmancy website along with the generally much higher priced published fare tickets.

 

BUT and this is the BIG BUT-how do you know what you purchased? VERY, VERY often you don't. The rules that are available on the Choice Air website are VERY scant. I have seen them so scant they basically say you have to pay for luggage. Well, DUH!!!

 

Until you can read the ENTIRE fare rules (and sometimes they are a couple of pages long of very small print), you really have NO idea what you purchased or what rules your ticket falls under. But I can almost guarantee that any time you see a ticket that is several hundred dollars BELOW what a published fare sells for (with ALL the rules available), you are NOT buying the same ticket you would have purchased from the airline direct. MAY be the same flight#, same plane, yes, you may be able to pick your seats BUT the underlying premise of the ticket and the RULES can be very, very different and totally trash your vacation if there is a glitch.

 

And this is especially true of ONE WAY tickets overseas. The cruiseline/airline make a deal to sell ROUND TRIP tickets. Then the cruise line issues 1/2 to one passenger and 1/2 to another. Americans look for one way tickets to Europe/Asia, etc. etc. on the US airlines. US airlines DO NOT sell competitively priced one way international tickets. So look to a few of the foreign airlines that sell TRUE one way tickets at competitive prices or find posts by Gardyloo on how to buy AA miles and get that one way ticket at a very good price.

 

I do not doubt your input. But maybe here again is the difference in USA and Europe. If you buy cheapest fares or "specials" even directly from

European airline, no changes possible, not even with a change fee. (I say here most airlines, like KLM, Swiss, Airfrance, Lufthansa, .. since I probably have not bought from all European airlines yet)

We had to buy new tickets a couple times when we couldn't make orginal flights booked with Swiss, LH or KLM and never got any reimbursements either (apart from small amount for airport taxes). And when a Lufthansa flight was cancelled for "internal" reasons, no putting on a similar Swiss

flight (eventhough we bought ticket directly with LH and eventhough Swiss now belongs to Lufthansa and we tried through various instances!). However, since

LH replacement flight was several hours later passengers could then claim recompensation of Euro 250.- according to EU passenger rights :cool:

 

Although such compensation might not help all that much if you miss a connection or cruise !

[odysee]

double posting

[frugaltravel]

That's all well and good, I understand the benefits for others and myself in the future, but there was no reason for the nasty tone along with it (at least that is how it comes across online). No one else in this thread criticized me for what I did. They offered advice or their thoughts on the issue. That is what I was looking for... not to be told that I jumped on some "cheapo bandwagon" and need to "suck it up." It's really not necessary.

 

Get used to the tone on the cruise air forum. What you experienced is a common complaint. Some very type A personalities combined with first and/or only children and it is my way or the highway.

[Cruise Junky]

I do not doubt your input. But maybe here again is the difference in USA and Europe. If you buy cheapest fares or "specials" even directly from

European airline, no changes possible, not even with a change fee. (I say here most airlines, like KLM, Swiss, Airfrance, Lufthansa, .. since I probably have not bought from all European airlines yet)

We had to buy new tickets a couple times when we couldn't make orginal flights booked with Swiss, LH or KLM and never got any reimbursements either (apart from small amount for airport taxes). And when a Lufthansa flight was cancelled for "internal" reasons, no putting on a similar Swiss

flight (eventhough we bought ticket directly with LH and eventhough Swiss now belongs to Lufthansa and we tried through various instances!). However, since

LH replacement flight was several hours later passengers could then claim recompensation of Euro 250.- according to EU passenger rights :cool:

 

Although such compensation might not help all that much if you miss a connection or cruise !

 

 

Not always true. We had cheap Lufthansa tickets for this November. I could change them for $250 or cancel them for $300. Even Easy Jet has a change fee.

[Globaliser]

Not always true.

Indeed. I think that the only generalisation that anyone can really offer on this subject is that for any published fare, the answer will be found in the fare rules.

 

odysee may have meant flights on European airlines booked in Europe or for trips starting in Europe. But even then, the practice differs from airline to airline, from fare to fare, and from cabin to cabin.