Elite: Starting to feel less appreciated by Celebrity

[richsea]

......The loyalty program changed; our level (in my opinion) was changed dramatically (in that we can't achieve the next level in any approachable way)... PLUS, I'm not sure that I really care about what D+ would give me, in terms of benefits. I already have a particular spot that I can go to to have a sociable drink, which is all I care about. I don't care whether that drink is from a limited menu or a more expansive menu. I think I've expressed my opinion, clearly, that I care about the social aspect.....

 

 

Maybe I don't understand. Are you saying that you are unhappy because when they changed the parameters to reach D+, it made it too hard for you to reach, so you decided to try other lines, even though you don't care about the perks given to D+? We're there other reasons why you went away from Royal Caribbean?

[NLH Arizona]

I can't believe reading all the whiners out there. You would think the moment you start your vacation everyone is at your beckon call. Heaven forbid you don't get free stuff. Want, want,want. You would think you were all kindergarten children. Why don't you just try to enjoy your vacation and forget all the trivial stuff. #destress.

Can't believe what I'm reading, whiners whining about whiners. Instead of whining about whiners, maybe they need to just sit back and enjoy their cruise and forget about what others do.

[Cruising89143]

 

 

Maybe I don't understand. Are you saying that you are unhappy because when they changed the parameters to reach D+, it made it too hard for you to reach, so you decided to try other lines, even though you don't care about the perks given to D+? We're there other reasons why you went away from Royal Caribbean?

 

Actually I read a lot of comments on the RCI after the last change from many D and D+ who felt that the new levels were too far apart to reach the next level and decided to branch out. I think many based their choice on perks being the main factor in choosing a cruise line.

 

We decided to try X because we want a line with less kids. We will still cruise with RCI when we want to cruise on one of the Oasis or Quantum class ships or when the itinerary is special because we feel that they are still one of the better cruise lines out there.The perks are not as important to us.

[C 2 C]

Can't believe what I'm reading, whiners whining about whiners. Instead of whining about whiners, maybe they need to just sit back and enjoy their cruise and forget about what others do.

 

Behave yourself. You're almost ready to join Whiners Anonymous, a dedicated site where whiners gather to whine about whiners..

 

(Typed while holding and imbibing a glass of wine in my other hand):D

[NLH Arizona]

Behave yourself. You're almost ready to join Whiners Anonymous, a dedicated site where whiners gather to whine about whiners..

 

(Typed while holding and imbibing a glass of wine in my other hand):D

LOL! But I'm whining about whiners who whine about whiners. I think that deserves a bottle of wine, not just a glass.

[Orator]

One man's (or woman's) whine is another man's serious concern. Guess this is another one where it makes a difference if you're drinking or pouring.

 

Will Daniel2 return or was he a one whine poster?

 

Daniel: Don't take this too seriously. It's what one can expect when their first post is viewed as negative. Experience Celebrity enough and you'll see where many are coming from. There is a long history here. Many of the posters on this thread are among the most experienced Celebrity cruisers. As one would say: "They have earned their spurs".

[C 2 C]

LOL! But I'm whining about whiners who whine about whiners. I think that deserves a bottle of wine, not just a glass.

 

And that is why the social hours were implemented in Michael's Club for Elites to express their more serious issues...

[Member123]

......The loyalty program changed; our level (in my opinion) was changed dramatically (in that we can't achieve the next level in any approachable way)... PLUS, I'm not sure that I really care about what D+ would give me, in terms of benefits. I already have a particular spot that I can go to to have a sociable drink, which is all I care about. I don't care whether that drink is from a limited menu or a more expansive menu. I think I've expressed my opinion, clearly, that I care about the social aspect.....

 

 

Maybe I don't understand. Are you saying that you are unhappy because when they changed the parameters to reach D+, it made it too hard for you to reach, so you decided to try other lines, even though you don't care about the perks given to D+? We're there other reasons why you went away from Royal Caribbean?

 

Hi, Rich,

 

Wish we were having a cocktail having this conversation! :D

 

I'm saying, simply, that I had looked at cruise lines (obviously) before our very first cruise, and thought RCCL would be a fantastic cruise line to sail. I wasn't wrong. Fabulous, fabulous vacations.

 

The loyalty program was just a great benefit. It wasn't THE reason that I stayed with Royal, until it was. Know what I mean? I think we had taken about 4 cruises, or so, all on Royal... and then a friend wanted to try another cruise line and we gladly went on a vacation! I won't bore you with all the issues we had on that cruise, but my husband and I discussed our feelings and just came to the conclusion that our "home" was with RCCL. Some of the reasons were petty: the "other" cruise line didn't say "Welcome Home!" when we boarded; but we just felt, overall, that we weren't appreciated on the ship. And, we weren't. It was our first cruise with them, so we missed the things we had come to expect.. Welcome Aboard party, Captain's Reception, etc. Just overall, we liked Royal better... personal preference, and all that. You know I'm being facetious about the Welcome Home! remark, right?

 

Now, to clarify what I recognize to be a confusing statement... when the loyalty program changed, we thought that we were being close-minded and stuck on the loyalty ladder (so to speak) and that we should branch out to see whether our experience with that "other" cruise line was a one-off... or maybe we could find something that would be more pleasing to us...

 

So, we looked around. I'm not sure that we would have EVER looked around... if the loyalty program hadn't changed. I'm just being honest. It's not that D+ isn't achievable, it's just that it becomes an analysis of what exactly does being D+ mean? I mean: it's a loyalty program, and that's what we're talking about, right? The benefit to the levels within a loyalty program....

 

Reasons why I went away from Royal? Specifically, the nonsmoking policy of Celebrity on balconies and we love our balcony staterooms. The category of stateroom accommodation that allows us to sail in AQ and have the Blu Restaurant (we love... I know, a matter of personal preference). At the risk of insulting anyone with a different opinion, I prefer Dancing With the Stripes, as a form of entertainment, to Quest. I've beaten the Elite Cocktail Hour to death, so I won't go there.

 

You know, just as a matter of comparison, I took a look at NCL's loyalty program. No, not because Celebrity might change the program (!), it's because we have friends who might want to sail Getaway next year. Here's the deal: credits are achieved for every night of the sailing, an extra credit per night if you book 9 months in advance, an extra credit per night if you book a special-coded sailing (which the Getaway is)... bringing that sailing to 21 credits. The second level of loyalty starts at 20! Which means that if we booked a TransAtlantic, 9 months in advance, special coded sailing (which there are), we would achieve 42 credits for that... added to our 21 + 42 = 63. Their highest loyalty level is at 76+, achievable in 3 cruises (in our style of cruising).

 

It's interesting to me. Was I little bit clearer, hopefully? BTW, I think there's a world of difference between whining and stating an opinion.

[bob278]

Well, just to engage in a little bit of polite conversation...

 

mathematical impossibility to not be at the same level?

 

I assume that you are thinking of only the formula conversion and the name of the loyalty level; i.e., if you were Emerald, you remained Emerald, right? I'm just saying that we were moving up the loyalty ladder (so to speak), and even though we may have remained at the same level NAME, we certainly didn't remain at the same level of effort to achieve the next step up the ladder. Think about it: wasn't that the whole point of the conversion? To slow down the upward progress?

 

Now, you may refute me. All I can tell you is that I thought we were a few cruises away from D+, and when we got converted we were given 135 credits, which is pretty far away from D+... for us. We don't sail in JS. I'm unaware of anything we could do in sailing with RCCL (for us) that would double our ability to earn credits... except for the Double Diamond in December... which we, unfortunately, could never take advantage of. So...

 

all it did is open the door to look around for another possibility for cruising. I can tell you that when we sailed Celebrity, I didn't even know that the loyalty program was reciprocal. Go figure. I guess there are some cruise critic readers who still don't know everything about everything? Or maybe I'm the exception there as well?

 

I think that you are focusing on a semantic problem with what I'm trying to convey in my opinion. Which is. The loyalty program changed; our level (in my opinion) was changed dramatically (in that we can't achieve the next level in any approachable way)... PLUS, I'm not sure that I really care about what D+ would give me, in terms of benefits. I already have a particular spot that I can go to to have a sociable drink, which is all I care about. I don't care whether that drink is from a limited menu or a more expansive menu. I think I've expressed my opinion, clearly, that I care about the social aspect.

 

Since the RCCL change, we've cruised Royal once and that was because we wanted a family vacation and we cruised with our kids. We're cruising them again next year, and that's because we have friends who wanted to take the Oasis on its TransAtlantic for dry dock.

 

So.... it's just someone's experience. Take it... Leave it... Believe it... Or not.

 

I'll have to digest what Bob278 said in his post. Because if that's true... I really don't GET it. What was the point of making the change? Why bother? Why "fix" something that wasn't broken? Wasn't the point... the whole point... to stop the congestion at the upper levels of the loyalty program? If there wasn't a difference achieved, again, what was the point?

If you were given 135 points, you had either 17 or 18 credits and it would have taken 7 cruises of any length to make it to D+ under the old program. After the conversion, you needed 40 "points". Six 7-day or 4 14-day cruises will make you D+. I just don't see how that is a dramatic change in what it would have taken under the old program compared to the new one.

 

I certainly do not want to diminish how you feel about the change as your feelings are what they are. But I do think that your analysis of the impact on you is incorrect. EDIT: Your last post came up as I posted this. I do see your point but still think your feeling about how much more difficult reaching D+ would be is off.

 

Since we also sail Celebrity as much (if not slightly more) than RCL, I agree with your perception that it is a better fit (the smoking policy alone is worth a lot to us, too). So maybe you should thank Royal for changing the program and giving you the incentive to move to Celebrity. It's a win-win as you are happier and the money stays in the same corporation. I just hope to convince you to take a close look at however the Celebrity program changes and, if it is similar to Royal's conversion, not to feel abused.

 

I have not done any detailed analysis (because I selfishly don't care), but I am convinced that those who were at or near the premium levels (and I still ignore Pinnacle because it is truly out of reach for us) had little or no impact but the program did slow the progression for newer members to reach them. The overall effect as I interpret it is that current members were protected while the company protected the bottom line by making it a little more difficult for people to reach a level where the benefits had financial impact on the bottom line.

 

It is in the cruise line's interest to keep the dangled carrot both worth obtaining (something extra to aim for) and within reach to avoid having people abandon the quest. With the exception of Pinnacle, I think Royal did that.

[richstowe]

Great account Member123. You wrote "Reasons why I went away from Royal?

Specifically, the nonsmoking policy of Celebrity on balconies and we love our balcony staterooms"

Boy does this hit home !

I made myself a promise to never again get a balcony on a ship that allows balcony smoking. (Why pay extra to be aggravated).

 

I wonder what will happen if Royal matches X's smoking policy. I'm thinking this change could hurt Celebrity badly.

This "small" change could have a much bigger effect on Celebrity then any possible loyalty plan changes.

[Dave85]

Great account Member123. You wrote "Reasons why I went away from Royal?

Specifically, the nonsmoking policy of Celebrity on balconies and we love our balcony staterooms"

Boy does this hit home !

I made myself a promise to never again get a balcony on a ship that allows balcony smoking. (Why pay extra to be aggravated).

 

I wonder what will happen if Royal matches X's smoking policy. I'm thinking this change could hurt Celebrity badly.

This "small" change could have a much bigger effect on Celebrity then any possible loyalty plan changes.

 

I'd LOVE of RC matched X's smoking policy personally (that's another thread), but I really wonder if the bolded statement is actaully true. Keep the flip side in mind, lots of people who are happily lighting up on RC, who wouldn't touch X because of the smoking policy, will be impacted and driven elsewhere. Mind you, not just Americans and Canadians but guests from other regions of the world where smoking is still more prevalent...

[Cruising89143]

I'd LOVE of RC matched X's smoking policy personally (that's another thread), but I really wonder if the bolded statement is actaully true. Keep the flip side in mind, lots of people who are happily lighting up on RC, who wouldn't touch X because of the smoking policy, will be impacted and driven elsewhere. Mind you, not just Americans and Canadians but guests from other regions of the world where smoking is still more prevalent...

 

Hard to say if RCI would that. I wonder what the percentage of smokers are on a RCI ship at any given time? Is that percentage too large to make changes? I personally think that it is. As most of us know RCI markets and attracts many guests from other parts of the world. They have some big ships to fill.

[richsea]

Behave yourself. You're almost ready to join Whiners Anonymous, a dedicated site where whiners gather to whine about whiners..

 

(Typed while holding and imbibing a glass of wine in my other hand):D

 

Too many days in dry dock!:D

[bob278]

I hope I don't get flamed for this observation and I am certainly not trying to change the topic to a smoking thread. Just addressing the points being made.

 

Non-smokers are more flexible than smokers (may have something to do with nicotine addiction). Many, many more non-smokers are willing to deal with smokers in their vicinity than smokers are willing to spend an extended time in a non-smoking or heavily smoking-restricted environment.

 

As an example, I recall one cruise line (was it Carnival?) tried a completely non-smoking ship. I don't think that lasted more than a handful of cruises.

 

I doubt if any cruise line will go much more strict than Celebrity with the balcony and most public areas being non-smoking. I will give them credit for whatever they do to remove the smell as we haven't been bothered on recent Celebrity cruises at all. I have asthma and my wife is an ex-smoker so we would definitely notice. It's a shame that something that gives so many people pleasure affects those around them so negatively. But in a significant number of cases, that pleasure is a helath hazard to others, not just an unpleasant odor.

[richsea]

Thanks for your clarification. Sounds like the change was just the tiny push you needed to try a change. A number of years ago we tried Princess & liked it but.... then, on our 3rd Princess cruise, we stopped comparing everything to Celebrity & had our best Princess cruise of all. However, we still consider X to be home.

 

IMO, the loyalty perks offered, & reaching the next level, are not enough to make us stay or leave a cruise line. Don't get me wrong, there are some perks that we thoroughly enjoy, but it is the overall cruise experience with a given line that keeps us coming back. As long as the overall experience remains pretty much the same, we will stick with Celebrity, but are always open to something different, depending on who we sail with, itinerary, & cost.

[richsea]

......

Non-smokers are more flexible than smokers (may have something to do with nicotine addiction). Many, many more non-smokers are willing to deal with smokers in their vicinity than smokers are willing to spend an extended time in a non-smoking or heavily smoking-restricted .....

 

Surely you jest!!:eek: God forbid someone poses an innocuous question about smoking on a Celebrity ship, & guaranteed there will be at least 3 pages of condemnations of people who smoke from the militant non-smokers about the ravages of second hand smoke, how the smell of smoke makes them sick, & why is smoking allowed at all on Celebrity ships.

 

And no I don't smoke.

 

And now, back to our whining speculations about how the decline of the Elite experience is ruining our cruise experience.;)

[Member123]

If you were given 135 points, you had either 17 or 18 credits and it would have taken 7 cruises of any length to make it to D+ under the old program. After the conversion, you needed 40 "points". Six 7-day or 4 14-day cruises will make you D+. I just don't see how that is a dramatic change in what it would have taken under the old program compared to the new one.

 

I certainly do not want to diminish how you feel about the change as your feelings are what they are. But I do think that your analysis of the impact on you is incorrect. EDIT: Your last post came up as I posted this. I do see your point but still think your feeling about how much more difficult reaching D+ would be is off.

<snip>

.

 

Frankly, I had forgotten the details of why I felt the way I did... and your analysis brought back my memory.

 

I believe we were at 18 credits, requiring 6 credits to obtain the 24 credits needed for D+... meaning that we would have had to take 2 TransAtlantic cruises in a Junior Suite, to reach the D+ level. Each of those cruises would have given us 3 credits. I could have done Eastern/Western and achieved the level in 1 year, or 2 years if I did only one transit.

 

So, under the system where I was given the 135 credits and had to get to 175 credits... 40 nights of sailing... I think that if I do the math on that... TransAtlantics usually give about 12 (maybe 14) credits... suites are the only staterooms that get doubled... so I would have had to take 4 cruises to get to the D+ level. Double the number of cruises. So, 2 years, or 4 years... it's just different.

 

Like I've said... very approachable. Just different.

 

@Rich: You can BET that I won't stop cruising with Celebrity at the thought of a change to the loyalty program. I just wanted to chime into the thread to have a conversation and to invite people to have a go at listening to my opinion, especially when the conversation took the turn of not making any difference... one way or the other.

 

Let me be clear. I love Celebrity; I have several cruises booked for 2014 and I'm excited to be doing the Honolulu to Sydney TransPacific on the Solstice in a few days! Very excited. I just hope that Celebrity continues to meet my expectations... that's all.

 

Really? oh... I don't know that we can get started on the whole smoking issue. That's just another... :p ...

 

Again, I'm just remembering... I could be mistaken... I don't have any reason to keep all that information in my brain and trust me when I say I have enough trouble keeping in the items that are truly important. Water, so to speak, under the bridge.

[C 2 C]

Too many days in dry dock!:D

 

I almost wet my dry dock.. :D

[C 2 C]

Let me be clear. I love Celebrity; .. I just hope that Celebrity continues to meet my expectations... that's all. .

 

That's the issue. When something changes, some people notice, especially as those who cruise frequently don't have time to forget how it was on the last cruise.

 

Spoiler alert: This is not a whine, just an observation.

This past Spring we were at the Captain's Club Celebration on Eclipse and the full spread was offered, Sushi, Roast beef, Crepes, fruit etc. The next week we were on Reflection and only trays of "appetizers" were offered.

The award for frequent cruise on Eclipse included flowers for the lady and a bottle of wine for the gent. On Reflection the bouquet was smaller and the bottle of wine was 375 ml, i.e., half a bottle.. Entitlement, of course not, but a break of tradition and a change in perceived reward.

 

When more and more people pick a beverage package, when the party atmosphere of the food event is cancelled, why show up for an afternoon celebration?

[Big_G]

Surely you jest!!:eek: God forbid someone poses an innocuous question about smoking on a Celebrity ship, & guaranteed there will be at least 3 pages of condemnations of people who smoke from the militant non-smokers about the ravages of second hand smoke, how the smell of smoke makes them sick, & why is smoking allowed at all on Celebrity ships.

 

And no I don't smoke.

 

And now, back to our whining speculations about how the decline of the Elite experience is ruining our cruise experience.;)

 

I agree with Bob. We sail both Royal and Celebrity and couldn't care any less about the smoking policies. We cruise both for their different cruising experiences. I'm sure a smoker would have more reservations than I about sailing on ships with no indoor or balcony smoking allowed. I think people like me are a silent majority because we just don't care.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a smoking thread.

 

And now, back to our whining speculations about how the decline of the Elite experience is ruining our cruise experience. :D

[neverbeenhere]

Testing, testing, 1,2,3 could be they were checking to see what people like and dislike. We are tired of the beef, crepe etc . Been asking for a change for a couple years. Btw you had part of your wine left from the past week.

:D:D

[Oville]

Well, just to engage in a little bit of polite conversation...

 

mathematical impossibility to not be at the same level?

 

I assume that you are thinking of only the formula conversion and the name of the loyalty level; i.e., if you were Emerald, you remained Emerald, right? I'm just saying that we were moving up the loyalty ladder (so to speak), and even though we may have remained at the same level NAME, we certainly didn't remain at the same level of effort to achieve the next step up the ladder. Think about it: wasn't that the whole point of the conversion? To slow down the upward progress?

 

Now, you may refute me. All I can tell you is that I thought we were a few cruises away from D+, and when we got converted we were given 135 credits, which is pretty far away from D+... for us. We don't sail in JS. I'm unaware of anything we could do in sailing with RCCL (for us) that would double our ability to earn credits... except for the Double Diamond in December... which we, unfortunately, could never take advantage of. So...

 

all it did is open the door to look around for another possibility for cruising. I can tell you that when we sailed Celebrity, I didn't even know that the loyalty program was reciprocal. Go figure. I guess there are some cruise critic readers who still don't know everything about everything? Or maybe I'm the exception there as well?

 

I think that you are focusing on a semantic problem with what I'm trying to convey in my opinion. Which is. The loyalty program changed; our level (in my opinion) was changed dramatically (in that we can't achieve the next level in any approachable way)... PLUS, I'm not sure that I really care about what D+ would give me, in terms of benefits. I already have a particular spot that I can go to to have a sociable drink, which is all I care about. I don't care whether that drink is from a limited menu or a more expansive menu. I think I've expressed my opinion, clearly, that I care about the social aspect.

 

Since the RCCL change, we've cruised Royal once and that was because we wanted a family vacation and we cruised with our kids. We're cruising them again next year, and that's because we have friends who wanted to take the Oasis on its TransAtlantic for dry dock.

 

So.... it's just someone's experience. Take it... Leave it... Believe it... Or not.

 

I'll have to digest what Bob278 said in his post. Because if that's true... I really don't GET it. What was the point of making the change? Why bother? Why "fix" something that wasn't broken? Wasn't the point... the whole point... to stop the congestion at the upper levels of the loyalty program? If there wasn't a difference achieved, again, what was the point?

 

First off the point was to be more fair to there customers. It was unfair to give equal cruise credits for a 3 day Bahamas cruise and an 11 day Panama canal cruise.

 

If you had around 135 pts after conversion you needed 40 cruise points (6 seven day cruises) to achieve Diamond Plus at 175. You must have had 17 points under the old system. Therefore you needed 7 more cruises to achieve 24 points, the old D+ level.

 

You can argue with me if you must, but the numbers do not back up your complaint.

[C 2 C]

Sorry, didn't mean to turn this into a smoking thread.

 

And now, back to our whining speculations about how the decline of the Elite experience is ruining our cruise experience. :D

 

No more wining, I'm into more serious spirits after dinner...

 

When we ventured on Oasis this past winter, we experienced the smoke, avoided the more concentrated areas, but still valued the cruise enough to want to do it again next year. Our main desire is to have reciprocity at a higher level. As true cruise addicts we wish to expand our enjoyment of life on board with more varied entertainment than what Celebrity offers.

[NLH Arizona]

I was reading a RCCL thread. Is it true if you are D+, that all family members that live at the same address get the perks, regardless of what their tier status is or type of cabin they are in?

[Oville]

Yes, to slow the progression to the top tier/s.

 

No, it was changed to be more fair. If you take a 3 day cruise you get 3 points, if you take an 11 day cruise, 11 points.

 

Please see my post #297 and you will see your comment to slow progression is untrue, unless you only take short cruises.