Southwest Customer of Size

[slidergirl]

Don't be ridiculous! Would you want to pay double the price for your airline ticket. Airfare is already way too expensive! I don't have this issue but even just buying one seat, I usually spend as much for airfare as I do for an entire week long cruise. Obesity is a chronic disease, not a bad habit, and I get so sick of people who feel like folks with this disease need to be punished for having it! Airlines are required to accommodate other disabilities so they should have to accommodate that one too.

 

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Sorry, but I don't buy into your comment. Other disabilities are accommodated, but not with a free second seat. Please name one disability where a second seat is given free of charge. On a full plane, the person sitting next to the obese person isn't given an accommodation.

I had to fly TATL with a temporary disability - a severely fractured leg. I was traveling home to have it surgically fixed. Even though I was in a wheelchair, I was not accommodated with a second seat to make my leg more comfortable. I bought a business class seat so I could be more comfortable. Obese people should be treated no differently. If you want to be comfortable, pay for it.

 

I don't care why someone is obese. I fully understand it isn't always the result of uncontrolled overeating and lack of exercise. I have a friend who is now obese due to all her complications from breast cancer. But, she expects no special accommodation on a flight...

Edited July 31, 2014 by slidergirl

[Laurie S.]

Sorry, but I don't buy into your comment. Other disabilities are accommodated, but not with a free second seat. Please name one disability where a second seat is given free of charge. On a full plane, the person sitting next to the obese person isn't given an accommodation.

I had to fly TATL with a temporary disability - a severely fractured leg. I was traveling home to have it surgically fixed. Even though I was in a wheelchair, I was not accommodated with a second seat to make my leg more comfortable. I bought a business class seat so I could be more comfortable. Obese people should be treated no differently. If you want to be comfortable, pay for it.

 

I don't care why someone is obese. I fully understand it isn't always the result of uncontrolled overeating and lack of exercise. I have a friend who is now obese due to all her complications from breast cancer. But, she expects no special accommodation on a flight...

 

I totally agree with you!

[Algebralovr]

Most of us understand that there is a difference between pre-boarding someone in a wheelchair is way different than providing an additional seat that could produce revenue for the company. Accommodations only go so far.

 

For example, I own a duplex. If I rent to a person with a mobility disability, I must allow them to make needed modifications AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE to my property to make it usable for them. This can include a ramp, wider doors, grab bars, etc. They must follow all local laws, including getting a permit to do the work, and all of my business requirements, including the written requirement I have that any contractor working on my property must carry at least $1 million in liability and workman's comp insurance. The law says that I do not have to allow them to get their cousin Bubba to do the work on a Sunday afternoon for a case of Bud.

 

Another statement in the fair housing law says that when the tenant who has this work done chooses to move out, I can require them to return the property to the condition it was when they first signed the lease, once again AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. I don't have to pay for any of it. Basically, I have to allow them to make it so they can live there, but I don't have to lose money to do it.

 

Providing an extra seat for a customer of size is similar. Legally, why should the airline be required to give up revenue for a customer that does not fit into a standard sized seat? If you need extra space, either because you are too wide for the seat or because you are too tall for the allowed space, it is up to the customer to purchase that extra space. The person who is wide can purchase a wider seat, on Southwest that means buying a second one. On a legacy airline, it could mean an extra seat or business class. My colleague who is 6'5" flies a lot. He either pays extra for a seat with more legroom or knows he will be squished for a couple of hours.

 

Southwest is more than fair when they are willing to refund the extra seat to the COS who purchases it.

[ducklite]

Don't be ridiculous! Would you want to pay double the price for your airline ticket. Airfare is already way too expensive! I don't have this issue but even just buying one seat, I usually spend as much for airfare as I do for an entire week long cruise. Obesity is a chronic disease, not a bad habit, and I get so sick of people who feel like folks with this disease need to be punished for having it! Airlines are required to accommodate other disabilities so they should have to accommodate that one too.

 

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I don't know what type of cruise you go in, but I can fly r/t cross country three times in first class for what my average cruise fare is.

 

Most obese people by their action or inaction choose to be obese. Obesity is not a disease. There are diseases related to obesity, but obesity in it's own is not a disease and IS something which can be controlled in any number of ways, if the person actually wants to make the changes required to no longer be obese. Less than five percent of obese people have a medical condition that causes them to be obese.

Edited August 2, 2014 by ducklite

[notentirelynormal]

Don't be ridiculous! Would you want to pay double the price for your airline ticket. Airfare is already way too expensive! I don't have this issue but even just buying one seat, I usually spend as much for airfare as I do for an entire week long cruise. Obesity is a chronic disease, not a bad habit, and I get so sick of people who feel like folks with this disease need to be punished for having it! Airlines are required to accommodate other disabilities so they should have to accommodate that one too.

 

The answer is NO I do not want to pay double for my airline ticket. But I can tell you that my wide husband who took up more then his share of my seat on a long overseas flight p*ssed me off beyond belief - and I love him! I don't know the stranger pushing their body into mine. I no longer will fly economy with him. He can either lose weight or we'll pay the difference. There is no middle ground.

 

A stranger sitting next to me, pushing their overweight body into mine, ummm, NO. I am just as entitled as the overweight person to sit in MY seat as they are in theirs. If you can't fit, pay the extra money. I can't under any circumstances understand why you would think it is okay for a stranger to sit on top of me because they don't want to pay for the extra seat. For their arms to be gushed into my chest or face. What world do you live in where that is acceptable? I don't care if it is an uncontrollable issue or not. You get your seat and I get mine. If you have to be in mine then book two seats. Plain and simple.

 

After that horrid flight I told my husband, economy will never happen again. He doesn't like it.... well then lose weight. Starve himself, get weight reduction surgery, I don't care. But if he thinks I'll ever share my seat again he is sadly mistaken. It was an 11-1/2 hour flight that was so bad that I spent a lot of time walking the aisle crying. He crowded me by crossing his arm and leaving me no place to be. I put up the arm rest to give him extra space and he scooted over into mine. His inconsiderateness has cost him a lot of money going forward.

 

Suck it up. Admit you are overweight and deal with the consequences. Why on earth would you make a complete stranger deal with your issues?

 

My daughter has a friend who has both MS and MD. She is one of the few in the world that has both. You know what? She doesn't even have a handicap placard. She wasn't supposed to live past 23 YO and yet at 35 she is still going strong. She would not expect any special treatment so why should a fat person? Yes, I OMG used the word fat!

[Viv0828]

On one flight I only got to use about 75% of my seat. My neighbor used the other 25%. If the seat cost $400, does that mean I get to pay $300 and she should pay $500? I don't think the airlines see it that way! If I pay for the whole seat I think I should be entitled to use all of it.

 

 

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[ducklite]

It seems like one thing that they could do to eliminate the problem is install a fan like device on each seat that can fold out to better define each persons space. When the divider is deployed, a person would have no choice but to use only their space. If they can't fit in it, they would have to purchase a second seat.

[slidergirl]

The answer is NO I do not want to pay double for my airline ticket. But I can tell you that my wide husband who took up more then his share of my seat on a long overseas flight p*ssed me off beyond belief - and I love him! I don't know the stranger pushing their body into mine. I no longer will fly economy with him. He can either lose weight or we'll pay the difference. There is no middle ground.

 

A stranger sitting next to me, pushing their overweight body into mine, ummm, NO. I am just as entitled as the overweight person to sit in MY seat as they are in theirs. If you can't fit, pay the extra money. I can't under any circumstances understand why you would think it is okay for a stranger to sit on top of me because they don't want to pay for the extra seat. For their arms to be gushed into my chest or face. What world do you live in where that is acceptable? I don't care if it is an uncontrollable issue or not. You get your seat and I get mine. If you have to be in mine then book two seats. Plain and simple.

 

After that horrid flight I told my husband, economy will never happen again. He doesn't like it.... well then lose weight. Starve himself, get weight reduction surgery, I don't care. But if he thinks I'll ever share my seat again he is sadly mistaken. It was an 11-1/2 hour flight that was so bad that I spent a lot of time walking the aisle crying. He crowded me by crossing his arm and leaving me no place to be. I put up the arm rest to give him extra space and he scooted over into mine. His inconsiderateness has cost him a lot of money going forward.

 

Suck it up. Admit you are overweight and deal with the consequences. Why on earth would you make a complete stranger deal with your issues?

 

My daughter has a friend who has both MS and MD. She is one of the few in the world that has both. You know what? She doesn't even have a handicap placard. She wasn't supposed to live past 23 YO and yet at 35 she is still going strong. She would not expect any special treatment so why should a fat person? Yes, I OMG used the word fat!

 

Don't say "fat" over on the Fashion & Beauty forum - I got nailed for that. I got nailed for saying "obese", too. They prefer "fluffy" :roll eyes:

 

I hate to fly WN. They are my last choice for flights out of my home airport. But, I do applaud them for at least trying to deal with the problem of obese people encroaching on other passengers' seat space. I would like all airlines to make obese people (regardless of why they are obese) pay for the extra space they will take up. In a cruel world, I'd have a "sizer" at a gate and everyone would have to walk through the sizer. If you couldn't walk through it, you would not be allowed to board the flight unless you paid for the seat next to you...

[6rugrats]

On one flight I only got to use about 75% of my seat. My neighbor used the other 25%. If the seat cost $400, does that mean I get to pay $300 and she should pay $500? I don't think the airlines see it that way! If I pay for the whole seat I think I should be entitled to use all of

 

And you should get your entire seat. If more people would discuss this problem (that someone is spilling over into their seat) before the flight takes off, you have a better chance of something being done. If someone can't fit into a seat with the arm rests down, and there is no place else to move them, they should be offloaded.

 

Until people assert their right to their seat nothing will change. The FAs aren't going to deal with it unless you request it. If they won't, go to the purser.

Edited August 2, 2014 by 6rugrats

[Laurie S.]

When I'm stuck flying Southwest, or coach on another airline, I will never allow the armrest to be raised. If you can't fit in the seat you bought, then tough, you sure aren't sitting in mine or leaning into me!

[grandma*knows*best]

And you should get your entire seat. If more people would discuss this problem (that someone is spilling over into their seat) before the flight takes off, you have a better chance of something being done. If someone can't fit into a seat with the arm rests down, and there is no place else to move them, they should be offloaded.

 

Until people assert their right to their seat nothing will change. The FAs aren't going to deal with it unless you request it. If they won't, go to the purser.

 

Taking immediate action is the key. Do not wait until halfway into the flight to complain when nothing can be done. I was recently on a UA flight, sitting in an aisle seat with a man at the window and an empty middle seat. Just when they were about to close the door, a man came running on, headed toward the middle seat next to me. He practically fell on top of me while opening the overheads looking for space for his bag. When he couldn't find any, he lifted his suitcase over me to put it on the floor. It was obvious that he was extremely drunk; I could smell the alcohol as he came down the aisle. I had to decide if I was going to make a fuss or put up with sitting next to this guy for a cross country flight. I got up and complained to a flight attendant; they brought me up to the front of the plane and brought on the gate agent, who said she hadn't noticed anything. I'm pretty sure this wasn't true, if only because he reeked of alcohol. Anyway, they pulled the guy off the plane and talked to him; then they let him back on, but moved him and his bag to the back of the plane where I guess they could keep an eye on him. Yes, I didn't like doing this, but it was better than dealing with a drunk for 5 hours who should never have been allowed to board.

Edited August 2, 2014 by grandma*knows*best

[Loreto]

Taking immediate action is the key. Do not wait until halfway into the flight to complain when nothing can be done. I was recently on a UA flight, sitting in an aisle seat with a man at the window and an empty middle seat. Just when they were about to close the door, a man came running on, headed toward the middle seat next to me. He practically fell on top of me while opening the overheads looking for space for his bag. When he couldn't find any, he lifted his suitcase over me to put it on the floor. It was obvious that he was extremely drunk; I could smell the alcohol as he came down the aisle. I had to decide if I was going to make a fuss or put up with sitting next to this guy for a cross country flight. I got up and complained to a flight attendant; they brought me up to the front of the plane and brought on the gate agent, who said she hadn't noticed anything. I'm pretty sure this wasn't true, if only because he reeked of alcohol. Anyway, they pulled the guy off the plane and talked to him; then they let him back on, but moved him and his bag to the back of the plane where I guess they could keep an eye on him. Yes, I didn't like doing this, but it was better than dealing with a drunk for 5 hours who should never have been allowed to board.

 

My husband would be considered a passenger of size. We used to share the 2 seats, but I was always in the middle. We solved this problem by only flying first class, and I check the seat width chart, because some business class seats aren't much wider than coach.

 

We were in first ready to depart Las Vegas when a very drunk man boarded and tried to throw his bag in the first class bin, but lost his balance and the bag cartwheeled down the aisle. Two flight attendants tackled him and threw him off the plane...pretty impressive since they were both women! I don't know how this guy got past the gate agent.

 

You do need to speak up when there is a problem.

[imluvncruzn]

Thanks so much for this information! I had no idea that this policy even existed! We have a young man in our group that is considerably overweight and he's been worried about being denied boarding. I will just have him buy 2 seats now and then submit for refund.

[QTPie68]

My dh and I are both overweight. We only fly southwest because of their pos policy. I always purchase an extra seat. I have flown them for 10 years and have never been denied a refund for my second seat. I have at all times been treated with courtesy and dignity. I have only once been questioned about my need for a second seat,and this was by an agent trying to save me a little money, she thought I might fit.

 

When dh and I fly together, it is really good, we have three seats between us and both of us are comfortable. When I fly by myself,I do not do have to worry about encroaching on anyone else. Most times, I try and find another larger person or a senior adult traveling alone coming down the aisle and quietly offer them to sit in my row, explaining I have two seats so no one will sit next to them. I have never been turned down and have been thanked for offering.

 

I encourage anyone who even questions there ability to fit in a southwest seat to book two seats, it makes traveling so much less stressful for you and your traveling companion.

[Gloria Mundi]

Southwest-a total loser in my book for a whole lot a reasons. Generally HIGHER prices than you could have booked on a legacy airline MONTHS before Southwest opened their scheduled. AND with a CONFIRMED SEAT. Generally better prices BEFORE Southwest opens their schedule. That is their business model-be the CHEAPEST on the DAY THEY OPEN THEIR SCHEDULE. But legacy airlines have been selling CHEAPER seats (including luggage fees) 3 months BEFORE Southwest opens their schedule.

 

I used to fly a lot (business and personal) and now fly infrequently since I'm retired and DH and I would rather drive than endure all the BS associated with flying. I flew enough that a couple of times I had lower-tier Elite status on 2 airlines at the same time.

 

I'd rather fly Southwest than any of the US legacy airlines. They're more reliable (not perfect, but more reliable), they seem genuinely happy that you're on board instead of ignoring you and hoping you'll behave like self-loading cargo, and they don't hit you with junk fees. And, to get back to the OT, they addressed the COS issue when the other airlines stuck their heads in the sand and came up with a very reasonable policy.

[grandma*knows*best]

......

 

I'd rather fly Southwest than any of the US legacy airlines. They're more reliable (not perfect, but more reliable), ......

 

If by saying Southwest is reliable because they have few departure and arrival displays, you are mistaken.

[6rugrats]

If by saying Southwest is reliable because they have few departure and arrival displays, you are mistaken.

 

True. According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, for the last six months data is available (December 2013 -June 2014), Southwest had the worst on time arrival record (I only compared the legacies and Southwest).

 

On time arrival record:

 

AA 75.19%

DL 80.53%

Southwest 68.11%

US 79.29%

UA 74.66%

Edited August 25, 2014 by 6rugrats

[grandma*knows*best]

If by saying Southwest is reliable because they have few departure and arrival displays, you are mistaken.

 

Sorry, I meant delays, not displays. Curse you, auto correct!

[Viv0828]

Statistics are notoriously unreliable. SW could have a bunch of short delays and the other airlines could have fewer but longer delays. Not saying that's the way it is but I could be.

 

 

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[fbgd]

Isn't "Passenger of Size" a stupid term? I'm a passenger of size too, it's just I'm a smaller size than others? It's akin to "Quality used cars".

[kenish]

Statistics are notoriously unreliable. SW could have a bunch of short delays and the other airlines could have fewer but longer delays. Not saying that's the way it is but I could be.

 

In this specific case, WN has longer delays. BTS shows WN's average delay and the standard deviation (math/statistics term) are longer than competitors. This is measured in absolute, "clock" minutes. If the statistic was delay as a percentage of the scheduled flight time, it would skew the statistic against WN who has shorter flights. So BTS stats present a level playing field.

 

WN tends to dispatch their aircraft on shorter hops and delays accumulate (just like your doctor running late in the afternoon). That's the explanation that I think you're alluding to. Just need to be aware WN has a much higher chance of delay/missed connection and if the flight is delayed the "minutes late" will be more severe. Factor it into your itinerary and risk calculations.

Edited August 25, 2014 by kenish

[CraftyScribbles]

Don't be ridiculous! Would you want to pay double the price for your airline ticket. Airfare is already way too expensive! I don't have this issue but even just buying one seat, I usually spend as much for airfare as I do for an entire week long cruise. Obesity is a chronic disease, not a bad habit, and I get so sick of people who feel like folks with this disease need to be punished for having it! Airlines are required to accommodate other disabilities so they should have to accommodate that one too.

 

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Obesity is not a chronic disease. It's a state that can be changed, if it's not determined by medical situations, like medicine or thyroid disease. In the cases where medical background isn't a factor, diet and exercise can change one's weight. To be quite honest, medical backgrounds are lesser than those whose diet and exercise negate their lifestyle. It's treated as a disease (diet/exercise); but, it's not a disease.

Edited September 1, 2014 by CraftyScribbles

[notentirelynormal]

Obesity is not a chronic disease. It's a state that can be changed, if it's not determined by medical situations, like medicine or thyroid disease. In the cases where medical background isn't a factor, diet and exercise can change one's weight. To be quite honest, medical backgrounds are lesser than those whose diet and exercise negate their lifestyle. It's treated as a disease (diet/exercise); but, it's not a disease.

 

I can tell you without a doubt my husband being 100 pounds over weight has nothing to do with a disease. He likes to eat - and a lot. He doesn't have high blood pressure, cholesterol or anything else. He eats because he wants to. He is fat because he doesn't want to control it. It is his choice. It is as simple as it gets. I have gently and aggressively chastised and beyond but it makes no difference. He will do what he wants. In forty years it will never change.

 

My MIL once told me that I should never buy cookies or anything else fattening. Why? Because I should be aware that her son will eat them and get fat. Umm, there are three other people who live in the household that aren't fat. So we can't have cookies either? Yes - she says, I should respect him. Right, okay, sure. My husband is a grown man. He is very smart. He will always over eat. That is his choice. I have zero sympathy for him. I have made decisions to correct my problem and it is his choice to not change his.

 

I realize that not everyone chooses to eat too much and that is the reason for their obesity. My daughter, for instance, started on medication that inflated her weight tremendously. I struggle myself.

 

When I see someone obese sitting down with a meal twice the size of a normal meal - I have zero tolerance. You want to lose weight, eat smaller. I do. While I'm still not losing weight, I can't blame it on over eating.

 

I guess it comes down to owning your own situation. The key word is YOUR situation. No one else has to be responsible or accountable to your size issues. I'm not teeny tiny nor is my husband but at least we own it. I would never ever subject a complete stranger to deal with our issues. I just don't understand why so many think we should.

 

You're fat. I'm fat. My seat - your seat. You fit, I fit. Anything more... get an additional seat.

Edited September 3, 2014 by notentirelynormal

[Viv0828]

I agree that obesity is not a disease but it is a serious health issue. DH and I both struggle so we keep minimal amounts of unhealthy foods in our home. At least we have to take the time to go out if we want some junk food.

I don't think it is good for anyone to have unlimited amounts of junk food around even if they are underweight. I think if more families stocked up on healthy options and emptied out most of the junk, the obesity epidemic would slowly decrease.

And when I fly I want my whole seat. If some large person is taking up 25% of it, the airline can refund me 25% of my fare and charge it to my seat mate!

 

 

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[pcur]

I found on my several Southwest flights last year that with the new seats the seatbelt was about 1/4 inch too small for me. This changed from early 2014 to mid 2014, and I hadn't gained any extra weight.

 

I usually sat down, extended the belt to it's fullest, buckled it, and then pulled it tighter. Suddenly, it was too short when at full extension, and like I said, about 1/4 inch.

 

I finally got fed up last December when I flew SW again, and purchased my own seat belt extenders, both type A and B (only Southwest requires a B).

 

I never know if I'm going to end up with lots of extra seatbelt room, or one of those "suck it in" belts. I'm guessing that there will be a lot more passengers requesting extenders in the future, so I just got my own.