Chip and Pin Credit Card in US

[RJ2002]

To complicate matters even more, if you have one of those so-called Chip/Signature cards and call the issuing bank's customer service, there is a good change they will not have a clue to what I have described or to whether their card will actually work at a European Chip/PIN terminal. These banks really need to update their "scripts" so they can answer the questions, but for whatever reason they have been slow to train their reps and update the scripts.

 

Hank

 

Bolding mine. This has been my experience in speaking with my credit card reps. :mad:

[MATHA531]

Guess we need to explain this again (have done it in other posts). The EMV Chip (which is necessary for a Chip/PIN card) has various pieces of date encoded onto the Chip (it cannot be changed). One piece of data is whether the card defaults to the Pin option or the signature option (Chip/PIN cards can be programmed for either default option). In the USA, the few issuers of true EMV Chip/PIN cards (such as Andrews Federal Credit Union) have chosen to program the default to the "Signature" mode since it costs the financial institution less money to process a Signature transaction versus the PIN transaction. However, if the terminal used to process the transaction is set to accept PIN only (like at an automatic gas pump, some restaurants, etc) then the Pin does work and the terminal will request the user to input their Pin.

 

But, and this is the big but, some cards issued in the USA that are called Chip/Signature cards (even those with a compatible EMV Chip) may or may not have the Pin function enabled...or the user may not have ever received their PIN. In that case, the card will be worthless at terminals that only accept the PIN function.

 

To complicate matters even more, if you have one of those so-called Chip/Signature cards and call the issuing bank's customer service, there is a good change they will not have a clue to what I have described or to whether their card will actually work at a European Chip/PIN terminal. These banks really need to update their "scripts" so they can answer the questions, but for whatever reason they have been slow to train their reps and update the scripts.

 

Hank

P.S. We realize this info is somewhat redundant to info in other posts (including mine) but the nature of CC is that one must repeat themselves again and again and again for the readers that either do not bother to read all the posts or are unable to easily absorb what they read :)

 

All the absolute truth and I don't disagree with a single word. The one drawback, as I have said, occurs when the merchant's acquirer processor accepts chip and signature (the pos terminal starts spitting out a receipt) and the merchant on his or her own decides he or she will not complete the transaction for a variety of reasons; mostly a mistaken belief that is impressed on them by their processors that their liability is increased if they process a chip and pin card without a pin. It doesn't happen frequently but it happens. As I said, there is no way for you the cardholder with such a card, says the Andrews card, to get it to fall back on the pin function but as I said this seems to be the direction the American banks have decided to travel as the brand new Barclay Hawaian card is such a card as will be their arrival card when they issue them with the emv chip in the second and third quarter.

 

The other point is that there has been some limited success reported by some on various blogs I have looked at, especially in Denmark, who have a chip and signature card, the pos terminal requests a pin and they enter their cash advance pin (which is an online pin). I wouldn't count, however, on this always being so.

 

I agree with everything else you said.

[nana541]

What a confusing mess!

 

 

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[Regguy]

I really think people are making it too complicated.

 

If you have chip and sig, you'll be ok. Just have a plan for cash accessibility.

 

If you have chip and sig with chip and pin back up, you will be fine. Yes, occasionally there could be issues, but for the merchants you will run into when in cruise port cities, you are in good shape. Issues are few and far between.

 

If you true have chip and pin, you already know everything in this thread and are cutting edge so don't need to worry about it.

[Hlitner]

We like to tell the story of being in Rotterdam (about 18 months ago) and trying to buy a simple train ticket to Delft (a relatively short train ride). We get to the station and the way to buy tickets is from vending machines that will only operate with a true Chip/PIN EMV card (no signature option since its a vending machine). Since we did not have a lot of Euros with us (and were leaving Europe the following day) we wanted to use a credit card. So we went upstairs to the large ticket office (in the train station) took a number and waited about 20 min until they call our number. We go to the counter and tell them we want 2 tickets to Delft and hand them a credit card. The clerk says, "we can only accept a non Chip/PIN card at our Amsterdam Train station. She then apologizes, tells us its a bad policy, but it is the rule. So the only way we can purchase the ticket is with cash. I then had to run into another room, use an ATM to get more Euros, and then back to the ticket office where we again had to wait our turn, until we could finally purchase the train tickets. What a pain. Suffice it to say that we have since acquired a real Chip/PIN EMV card...but it was not easy in the USA :)

 

Hank

[nana541]

And tell us where you got your "true" Chip & Pin card????

 

 

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[WhiskeyPoet]

So my fiancee has a USAA account (and phenomenal credit) so we were planning on upgrading to their Chip/pin card...but now I'm not sure because of the foreign exchange rates.

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but do any of the true chip/pin cards have zero forex fees or just the ones that have chip/pin as a secondary?

 

(hides from the people who will yell at me that this has already been answered)

[MATHA531]

So my fiancee has a USAA account (and phenomenal credit) so we were planning on upgrading to their Chip/pin card...but now I'm not sure because of the foreign exchange rates.

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but do any of the true chip/pin cards have zero forex fees or just the ones that have chip/pin as a secondary?

 

(hides from the people who will yell at me that this has already been answered)

 

The what for lack of a better term I'll call the priority chip/sig cards which can fall back on chip/pin are the ones issued by the 3 fcu's in the DC area primarily although there are others. They are State Department FCU, Andrews FCU, and Pen(tagon) FCU (all open to everybody). All have no annual fees and no foreign transaction fees and relatively puny rewards programs. As it stands today, to the best of my knowledge, as you note, USAA MC is one of the few true chip and pin cards but has the 1% foreign transaction fee which is relatively low (many of the larger banks charge 3%). Look, it doesn't hurt to get the card and have it available as a back up just in case you run into a problem. Right now, my primary card is Bank of America travel rewards but it is chip and signature. I do carry the USAA card and am prepared to use it, and suffer the 1% consequences, if necessary. So far, it hasn't been necessary.

 

(Also I believe USAA ha a MC which has a 1% cash rewards program which would cancel out the 1% foreign transaction fee which is also a direction you can look).

[Regguy]

So my fiancee has a USAA account (and phenomenal credit) so we were planning on upgrading to their Chip/pin card...but now I'm not sure because of the foreign exchange rates.

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but do any of the true chip/pin cards have zero forex fees or just the ones that have chip/pin as a secondary?

 

(hides from the people who will yell at me that this has already been answered)

 

If you can get it, there's no downside. I would bring a no forex chip card with you as well. Use that everywhere you can, and pull out the USSA card only when the other doesn't work. That way, you limit the forex fee to only those situations where you're stuck. You may never even need the USSA, but if you end up with a squirrelly merchant or a difficult kiosk, you have it, and you'll pay a few pennies in forex.

[ProfDave]

Does anyone have a favorite chip and pin credit card provider in the USA, especially one that does not charge foreign transaction fees? I found a few, but was wondering if anyone has been especially pleased with a type of card.

 

Please forgive me if this information is somewhere on the boards. I did try to search, but kept coming up with info about the need for a chip and pin card in Europe rather than any suggestions for a US based card.

 

Thanks very much in advance to all!

 

Our Citi Hilton Honors Visa Signature card has chip and signature and no foreign transaction fees. It costs $95 a year but comes with 2 Hhonors points per dollar purchase, two free night certificates and 50,000 Hhonors points. The 50,000 got us two free Hilton nights in Rotterdam. I knew I needed the chip but found out how important it was when purchasing a train ticket in Amsterdam and was quickly informed that I could not use my card because it didn't have a chip, which it did but this "ugly American" had his thumb over the chip as he presented it.

[Hlitner]

And tell us where you got your "true" Chip & Pin card????

 

 

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A few of us on CC have been able to get the Visa Global Trek card from Andrews Federal Credit Union. Their card is a true EMV Chip/PIN although it will default to Chip/Signature if it is available. There card has no annual fees and no foreign exchange fees. They issue it with credit limits up to $50,000 (not easy to get the higher limits) and they offer a way (mentioned on their web site) to make nearly anyone eligible for membership in their credit union. They do seem to have tough credit standards and getting their card does involve a little work.

 

Hank

[MATHA531]

A few of us on CC have been able to get the Visa Global Trek card from Andrews Federal Credit Union. Their card is a true EMV Chip/PIN although it will default to Chip/Signature if it is available. There card has no annual fees and no foreign exchange fees. They issue it with credit limits up to $50,000 (not easy to get the higher limits) and they offer a way (mentioned on their web site) to make nearly anyone eligible for membership in their credit union. They do seem to have tough credit standards and getting their card does involve a little work.

 

Hank

 

Just for the record and probably it will still be confusing to some if not many, this is still not quite a true chip and pin card as is true for virtually all the American cards which claim to be chip and pin. Why not? Because as noted, its first priority is chip and signature at the pos terminals most merchants use. In some rare cases, although the numbers are increasing and here's the rub, some merchants refuse to accept transaction made with these cards. It has been reported. The merchant, sometimes just a student with a part time job, doesn't have a clue about the intricacies of this whole thing and has been indoctrinated that if you accept a card containing an emv chip and don't use the pin authorization, the merchant is liable for fraud. As noted, it is a small occurrance. The problem is that although the card is chip and pin secondary, you don't control that. If the pos terminal takes chip and signature, that's what will be produced. Certainly the Andrews card is far better than no chip and pin at all, I don't questin that for a second and if that's the emv chip card you have, it's pretty effective and will work or at least it should in automatics ticketing machines.

 

Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction the American banks have decided to adopt leaving, as far as I know, really only 3 "true" chip and pin cards. USAA MC, UNFCU (which has recently opened up membership by joining a pro UN organization at a minimum cost of $25/year and Diners Club which is currently not being offered to US residents and has a hefty annual fee.

 

Not trying to be confusing, contrary minded or anything like that. But them are the facts.

[WhiskeyPoet]

Is there an emoticon with the little smiley faced guy hitting himself over the head with a hammer over and over and over and over.... ?

[milolii]

Is there an emoticon with the little smiley faced guy hitting himself over the head with a hammer over and over and over and over.... ?

 

Yes exactly. Saw this. So relief is coming. Not sure if it will be soon enough for you. It appears the US will switch to chip and pin. We have friends who had a terrible time in Denmark this past fall. .

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2014/02/06/october-2015-the-end-of-the-swipe-and-sign-credit-card/

 

The article stars the a Target business did help drive the change.

 

 

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[WhiskeyPoet]

Yar, I've seen this. Sadly it'll be about 15 months too late for our trip... maybe the next one, lol.

[ceejay_San Angelo]

Does anyone have the Barclay's Hawaiian code and can confirm that it is chip and pin secondary?

[MATHA531]

Does anyone have the Barclay's Hawaiian code and can confirm that it is chip and pin secondary?

 

It is available with an emv chip. I'm not sure if they send you one with the chip automatically but you can certainly request one if they don't. It is what seems to be the direction the American banks have chosen to go i.e. it is what is referred to as a priority 1 chip and signature with a fall back chip and pin where the card determines it is necessary. It should cover you for most everything. Barclay's Bank does plan to add emv technology to its arrival card sometime this year and it will be the same. Their claim is their using the Hawaian Airlines card to test out the bugs.

 

Hope that helps.

[Mparis184]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Hopefully with the recent Target data theft issue, the US companies will consider accelerating their conversion over to "Chip and PIN".

 

My American Express is changing to the Chip and Pin on May 1, 2014 but card holders will have to request a new card, American Express will not be sending out new cards to members unless the card is requested.

 

Marion

[MATHA531]

My American Express is changing to the Chip and Pin on May 1, 2014 but card holders will have to request a new card, American Express will not be sending out new cards to members unless the card is requested.

 

Marion

 

Sorry to be a killjoy but assuming you're from the United States, Amex is going the chip and signature route here. If you live elsewhere, perhaps.

[Mparis184]

Yes, I am from the US. That's fine - I just want a card with the chip. I usually pay cash in Europe anyway but it would be nice to have a credit card with the chip if one is needed. I never carry a lot of cash and I never know when I might find something real expensive that I MUST have - the card would come in handy. I get cash from ATM's and have never had a problem.

 

Marion

[jdm]

I called American Express about a week ago and requested that my current card (gold) be re-issued with a chip. Not sure if it is a true chip and pin (I did establish a pin number, however it might only be for extra their security at this time) or chip and signature. Received it immediately at no extra charge.

[Philob]

I called American Express about a week ago and requested that my current card (gold) be re-issued with a chip. Not sure if it is a true chip and pin (I did establish a pin number, however it might only be for extra their security at this time) or chip and signature. Received it immediately at no extra charge.

 

Careful, I got a BofA card with a chip. After a little reading of the fine print, its a chip & signature; the PIN is to be used for cash advances from ATMs. If you use the PIN at a POS, it'll be considered a cash advance and not a charge.

[jdm]

Philob -

 

Thanks for the "heads up". I would not be using the American Express card at ATMs.

[jdm]

UPDATE - regarding my American Express card with chip. Researched a little deeper and verified that it is a Chip and Signature and not a Chip and Pin card. I really have never had any issues in recent past travels to Europe, but systems are always changing so I wanted to have at least one card imbedded with a chip.

[kiwimum]

USAA has chip and pin cards by request only at this time. Functions as a chip and signature in the US, has chip and mag strip. Pin number is assigned when the card is issued and cannot be changed. The unfortunate thing is so many stores in the US now have a set dollar amount before you are required to sign. My local supermarket is $75, Costco $150, I would prefer to approve every transaction.