2914 - Implementation of the New Wine Policy

[mudscraper]

Tomorrow's cruise is 11 days. Then, back to Port Everglades to "jump ship" to the Noordam. A completely separate cruise. I may have some left over from Maasdam - over and above the allotted 1 bottle per person. If that is the case, we'll share it on board the last night of the Noordam cruise...if they confiscate it on embarkation.

 

Sorry Sheila. I missed the Noordam switch. Happy cruising.

[trixiee]

No, no! We'll help you "dispose" of it the last night on the Noordam! ;)

 

 

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[LindaM]

I think it's better than good. I think it's fantastic! I have always been happy to pay corkage, and would willingly continue to do so.

 

If only this were the Princess boards and not HAL. HAL is not allowing us to pay corkage for more than 1 bottle per person, and it doesn't look like it's going to change.

[Wakepatrol]

very true - I think they need someone new to do it. Many will happily pay a corkage fee - so everyone would be a winner.

 

I guess that's too much for the bean counters at HAL to figure out.

 

We've already seen posters saying this is their last cruise for now - moving on to other lines.

 

but of course, you now best :)

 

 

No need to give me a parting shot or dig followed with a smiley face. I was simply pointing out that HAl probably isn't overly concerned about Total Wine.

[cruz chic]

If only this were the Princess boards and not HAL. HAL is not allowing us to pay corkage for more than 1 bottle per person, and it doesn't look like it's going to change.

 

I still think it will depending on if it starts to hurt the bottom line. I'm surprised that they haven't made an amendment already. Maybe they have gone so far the other way because they lost a lot with the current policy. Who knows.

[Typhoon1]

Yes, "affect" is indeed a verb. The noun is "effect".

 

It is important to remember that everyone makes mistakes at one time or another, and that there are many users who use English as a second language, especially on our Cruise Boards. There are also a number of people who suffer from learning disabilities and who have difficulty noticing their spelling mistakes. Do not make comments on the spelling and grammar of other users. It is simply not a productive expenditure of energies.

[startwin]

Princess is one bottle per person on embarkation for free, but allows unlimited bottles if you are willing to pay the $15 corkage fee - whether consumed in your cabin or in the dining room.

 

And that is GOOD?? REALLY!!!!! Cindy I am very happy for you. So is Princess to take your money.

 

I have no further comments to make on the subject - Thank you.

 

Yes it is good! I would happily pay a $15 corkage fee on a bottle of wine I purchased and which I know I will enjoy, than pay HAL's extortionate price for a bottle of swill. I'd still be ahead, dollar-wise.;)

[MainStreetMouse]

I am not about to start playing games with a poor HAL wine steward at boarding time. My beef is with the HAL management who implemented the policy. My father once told me to never enter into a pissing contest with a skunk as I was sure to lose. I will go on our cruise, purchase their mediocre wine, have a wonderful time, and indicate what I think of the policy on the cruise-end questionnaire.

 

p.s. Should one of the officers at the Meet and Greet or some other function ask me how my cruise is going, I will make sure to let him/her know regardless of whether other people are within earshot or not! ;)

 

 

That is one way of expressing your feelings towards this new wine policy.

 

What we have decided to do was shop around, look and consider other cruise lines. We have been loyal to HAL, never really considered another line until this. Not because other cruise lines have a better wine policy than HAL but if HAL's is going to be the same or similar to others, then we may as well shop around and see what others have to offer. When we started cruising several years ago it was HAL's wine policy that caught my attention and eventually caused us to be loyal HAL customers.

 

In fact, we just booked a cruise on Royal Caribbean. Never would have done this before this wine policy change.

 

Cheers!

Gary

[Cruzin Terri]

Call me dumb, but I do not understand the meaning of "2914". Would someone enlighten me?

Thanks

Terri

[RuthC]

Call me dumb, but I do not understand the meaning of "2914". Would someone enlighten me?

Thanks

Terri

 

Typo. The "9" is right next to the "0" on the keyboard.

[LVSue]

We don't do formal, so we bring wine on board to consume in our room with those meals. For dining, we buy wine packages. I don't see why I should have to pay corkage fees for wine I intend to drink in the room.

[nana51]

Not being a drinker I'm trying to understand some of the kerfuffle.:confused: All wine pretty much tastes the same to me. I can't imagine paying $15.00 to drink my own wine that I already bought once. Is really fine wine that important to the enjoyment of your cruise? To me what you drink should be a small factor of being on vacation. I have a ton of friends, we are considered upper middle class, and I can't imagine any of them being this upset over wine. I think HAL knows this and knows most of it's passengers won't care. Which is probably why they enacted this policy. Let's face it, cruising has become something middle class and upper middle class can now afford. Remember when traveling by plane was fun! Cruising isn't quite there but it is beginning the slide. Guess I'm part of the great unwashed that is beginning to cruise now.;)

[mamaofami]

It is important to remember that everyone makes mistakes at one time or another, and that there are many users who use English as a second language, especially on our Cruise Boards. There are also a number of people who suffer from learning disabilities and who have difficulty noticing their spelling mistakes. Do not make comments on the spelling and grammar of other users. It is simply not a productive expenditure of energies.

 

Aruba was not pointing out a grammar error, but rather agreeing with me that affect is a verb, as I posted.

[Cruzin Terri]

Typo. The "9" is right next to the "0" on the keyboard.

 

Thank you Ruth. I guess when someone else referred to the title of the thread, I thought there was a whole different meaning to it. I never thought about a typo.

Thanks again. Never thought about that.

Terri

[OVgirl]

That is one way of expressing your feelings towards this new wine policy.

 

What we have decided to do was shop around, look and consider other cruise lines. We have been loyal to HAL, never really considered another line until this. Not because other cruise lines have a better wine policy than HAL but if HAL's is going to be the same or similar to others, then we may as well shop around and see what others have to offer. When we started cruising several years ago it was HAL's wine policy that caught my attention and eventually caused us to be loyal HAL customers.

 

In fact, we just booked a cruise on Royal Caribbean. Never would have done this before this wine policy change.

 

Cheers!

Gary

 

I see that by implementing the new policy HAL has just leveled the playing field.

6 of one, half dozen of the other, what's the difference?:cool:

[RuthC]

[quote name='OVgirl'][SIZE="3"]I see that by implementing the new policy HAL has just leveled the playing field. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Ah, but they didn't "level" it. The HAL policy is more restrictive than that of comparable lines.
There's the rub.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[pris993]

[quote name='boards']Are you suggesting that HAL cruisers are the only reason the "Total Wine Store" in Fort Lauderdale is able to stay in business? Carnival, Princess and Celebrity all basically have the same program in place in regards to bringing wine on the their ships. Hal just got in line with the other them. The Total Wine Store will survive I'm sure.[/quote]

This is not true, Princess allows $15 charge per bottle, for more than 2 bottles.

Understand Celebrity is doing so well with packages they are not checking any more, per their board here.

We cruise Princess, HAL, Celebrity, Cunard.

Cunard could careless by the way.

[pris993]

[quote name='Kona921']Seriously? The problem is that too many were NOT paying the corkage. Asking the bar to provide them with wine glasses and then filling up in their cabins and bringing their filled glasses to bars and to the MDR. As usual the folks who believe that the rules don't apply to them have now spoiled it for those of us who are willing pay a corkage for the pleasure of bringing our own favorites. Also, even at $18 for corkage that is a steal compared to what most fine dining restaurants charge which is typically 20-25 and I have on more than one occasion paid 35 again for the pleasure of bringing my own.


3 Star Mariner on HAL[/quote]

Been cruising for 30 years, have always taken wine on board, purchased in port as well. Never, ever took wine in a glass from our cabin. We paid corking, bought wine in the MDR etc. The new policy is really a turn off though. We will be on a 14 day TA in April, we will see how it goes.

We purchased a bottle of scotch for the cabin, better bargin than HAL's cheap wines at inflated prices. Probably will buy some beers and be happy with that. May be our last HAL cruise, since we are just as happy on Princess, Celebrity and Cunard.

[startwin]

[quote name='nana51']Not being a drinker I'm trying to understand some of the kerfuffle.:confused: All wine pretty much tastes the same to me. I can't imagine paying $15.00 to drink my own wine that I already bought once. Is really fine wine that important to the enjoyment of your cruise? To me what you drink should be a small factor of being on vacation. I have a ton of friends, we are considered upper middle class, and I can't imagine any of them being this upset over wine. I think HAL knows this and knows most of it's passengers won't care. Which is probably why they enacted this policy. Let's face it, cruising has become something middle class and upper middle class can now afford. Remember when traveling by plane was fun! Cruising isn't quite there but it is beginning the slide. Guess I'm part of the great unwashed that is beginning to cruise now.;)[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I won't argue the point about why people are upset as not everyone has the same reasoning, and especially after cruising HAL for so many years. But to explain my own point which you don't understand..... my bottle of wine at approx $9 plus a $15 corkage fee equals a lesser amount than their bottle of what they pass off as wine, which to me is unpalatable. I do not buy expensive wine, I buy wine that I enjoy. Nothing remotely decent on their wine list comes close to that price. And HAL can no longer claim a "Signature of Excellence" when they themselves are stating that they are standardizing with the rest of the industry. Ergo: all things being equal, why choose HAL. I get that someone who thinks all wine tastes the same can't understand what the kerfuffle is about.;)[/SIZE][/FONT] Edited January 27, 2014 by startwin

[pris993]

[quote name='nana51']Not being a drinker I'm trying to understand some of the kerfuffle.:confused: All wine pretty much tastes the same to me. I can't imagine paying $15.00 to drink my own wine that I already bought once. Is really fine wine that important to the enjoyment of your cruise? To me what you drink should be a small factor of being on vacation. I have a ton of friends, we are considered upper middle class, and I can't imagine any of them being this upset over wine. I think HAL knows this and knows most of it's passengers won't care. Which is probably why they enacted this policy. Let's face it, cruising has become something middle class and upper middle class can now afford. Remember when traveling by plane was fun! Cruising isn't quite there but it is beginning the slide. Guess I'm part of the great unwashed that is beginning to cruise now.;)[/quote]

Yes, it is obvious you don't drink wine. If you did you would realize why someone would be willing to pay $15 or more corking on top of the price they paid for the wine vs the price the cruise line wants passengers to pay for a "very poor quality" wine.

[nana51]

Well I did say I don't drink wine. I thought about it though. I am VERY fussy about my tea and if HAL had a cheap nasty tea and I wouldn't be allowed to bring decent tea on board, it may make me choose another line.:mad: Now to someone who doesn't drink tea that may sound silly. So I guess looking at it that way I can see your point. I am not be facetious about the tea either, it is very important to me and I won't even order it in restaurants unless I know the water is boiling and the tea is quality. So to each their own. I do understand a little more now:D

[startwin]

[quote name='nana51']Well I did say I don't drink wine. I thought about it though. I am VERY fussy about my tea and if HAL had a cheap nasty tea and I wouldn't be allowed to bring decent tea on board, it may make me choose another line.:mad: Now to someone who doesn't drink tea that may sound silly. So I guess looking at it that way I can see your point. I am not be facetious about the tea either, it is very important to me and I won't even order it in restaurants unless I know the water is boiling and the tea is quality. So to each their own. I do understand a little more now:D[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I totally understand how you feel about tea. I am also very fussy about my tea (as anyone who visits the sailaway threads knows:D)[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Wakepatrol]

Many cruisers are rather limited in their cruising experiences and even more limited in their understanding of cruise industry finances.
It is very easy to say," Reduce the selling price by 50% and you will sell twice as many and make far more money".
Anyone with basic math skills can demonstrate why that doesn't work.
If it did work, you can bet that General Motors, Coca-Cola, and McDonalds would have started doing it many years ago.

McDonalds sells you a quart of Coca-Cola, badly made from syrup, in a paper cup half filled with ice, that costs them just a few pennies to make. You pay more than a dollar for it. That's quite a substantial mark-up. One might even claim it is downright theft. Is anyone complaining?

Starbucks makes you stand in line - twice - to get a paper cup of coffee that costs just a few pennies to produce. You are quite happily paying $32.00 per gallon for it. Does that seem like some kind of total ripoff to you? I don't hear anyone screaming..............

Have you visited an American movie theater lately? Try to buy a chocolate bar or a box of popcorn in the lobby. You may need to get a 2nd mortgage to afford them. People do complain, but they keep on buying..................

Last year, Americans paid over $14 BILLION for bottled drinking water. Most of that water came from city taps in Atlanta and Dallas. Chances are that the tap water in your home is better quality - and costs you basically nothing. Nobody seems to care. They keep on sucking on those trendy bottles - and throwing them in land-fills all over America..

By the way, Americans paid just $12 BILLION for gasoline that same year (something you cannot make or get at home for a few pennies) and screamed bloody murder at the high prices.

I stayed at the Hilton Hawaiian Village recently. A 12 oz can of coke from a vending machine there is now $3.25. Hilton pays less than 50 cents for that coke. A 650% markup. The machines are often empty because so many people are using them. Are people really that dumb?

The cruise line execs ARE paying attention - and learning a great deal about you, from the points listed above.

Let's look at costs and profits. Many people do not understand them.

A land-based Bar in North America hopes to have an average beverage cost of 8% to 12% in order to stay profitable.
Simply put, if the drink costs them 8 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but you get the picture.

A cruise ship works a bit differently. Most major cruise lines try to keep their beverage costs under 20% most of the time. Transportation, handling, breakage, and theft push their costs higher. The old urban myth of duty free costs keeping their costs down is just that - an old urban myth. Most cruise lines today find is cheaper to buy alcohol from major distributors (tax included), then pay a fortune to fly it halfway around the planet, and pay some local union another fortune to break/steal part of it and deliver the remainder to the ship. Going "Duty-Free" through a government bonded warehouse is far more expensive, time-consuming, difficult - and just not worth it.

So if a cruise line drink costs them 20 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. Pretty simple so far, no?
But so far we are talking only about "drinks" - and not wines.

Suppose a cruise line wants to sell a lot of wine.
They need to maintain their 20% cost (or lower) to remain profitable.
The bottle of wine costs them $5. Selling price needs to be $25 to make the 20% cost.

I haven't seen a bottle of wine with a $5 cost on a ship in quite some time.
The cheapest bottle on my ship today costs us just over $8. It's not very good. Nearly half the cost was flying it from California to Hong Kong to get it onto the ship.
That requires a selling price of just over $40 to maintain a 20% cost.

Let's look back at that bar on land.
His costs are generally lower and he needs a smaller cost percentage to stay profitable.
He doesn't have to pay the interest on a $750 MILLION mortgage, and his monthly fuel bill is substantially below the $2 MILLION (and rapidly climbing) that I pay every month.

Of course, he doesn't get to sell cruises to make a profit.
But guess what - my company also makes no profit selling cruises. We sell them at cost most of the time, and below cost to fill those last 50 cabins every week.

He also does not sell much wine.
Most Americans are not wine drinkers; it is mainly just people living on the California Coast, a few areas in the Northeast, and South Florida. Those are the big three wine markets in America; the ONLY big wine markets in America.

But he is also very lucky. Wine almost always has a higher cost of sales. The more wine he sells, the higher his costs go - and the lower his profits fall.
He can easily sell whiskey, vodka, and even beer with costs below 8%. But not wine.
Does he want to sell wine to you? No.

My onboard beverage manager has the same problem - but even worse. His costs on spirits and beer are a bit higher than the land-based bar, but not by much. That's why my ship can sell you a cocktail for about the same price you pay at a Holiday Inn, and still maintain a reasonable +/- 20% cost of sales.
But his wine costs are much higher than those paid on land - mostly due to transportation and handling costs.
Every time he sells you a glass of wine instead of a whiskey, his costs go up and his onboard revenue and profit goes down.
The bulk of his salary comes in the form of an incentive bonus that is based on cost of sales, and overall revenue.
Does he want to sell wine to you? No.
Would he ever suggest lowering the wine prices so that he can sell more, completely sabotaging his costs, killing his monthly salary, and rather quickly losing his job? Not a chance.

Would his Corporate Beverage VP ever want to lower wine prices? No way.
The result would cost the company millions in additional costs and lost revenues.

Would he ever propose having you pay a $20 corkage fee to bring your own wine onboard?
No way. That gives you 4 or 5 drinks for $20 revenue and no cost.
But selling you a bottle of wine - or even better - 4 or 5 cocktails, would get him more revenue and more profit despite the costs.

So now we know the REAL reason why ALL the cruise lines cannot manage to sell even one bottle of wine per passenger per cruise.
We really don't want to. We simply cannot afford it.
The passengers who drink other beverages are subsidizing your cruise.

So, all you wine mavens out there (myself proudly included), how much do you think the cruise lines really value your business?

[Watson's aunt]

[quote name='Typhoon1']It is important to remember that everyone makes mistakes at one time or another, and that there are many users who use English as a second language, especially on our Cruise Boards. There are also a number of people who suffer from learning disabilities and who have difficulty noticing their spelling mistakes. Do not make comments on the spelling and grammar of other users. It is simply not a productive expenditure of energies.[/quote]


Thank You


Mary

[boards]

I wished I had never got involved with this discussion. Edited January 27, 2014 by boards