Carrying Passports

[Big Al B.]

Are there any ports that require that we carry our passports with us when off the ship? Ports are: Copenhagen, Tallinn, SPB, Helsinki, Stockholm, Warnemunde, Kiel.

[CruiserBruce]

A little reading on the board would reveal SPB definitely, and the others it would be a good idea.

[dogs4fun]

Are there any ports that require that we carry our passports with us when off the ship? Ports are: Copenhagen, Tallinn, SPB, Helsinki, Stockholm, Warnemunde, Kiel.

As previously mentioned, you will definitely need your passport in SPB (immigration). For the other ports, we left our passports in our cabin safe and just carried a copy of our passports. :)

[dsrdsrdsr]

Yes to Russia, no to Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, and don't know to Estonia. You'll be told in the daily newspaper if you need to carry them.

[Travelanni]

Yes to Russia, no to Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, and don't know to Estonia. You'll be told in the daily newspaper if you need to carry them.

 

 

German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

I would personally never consider travelling in a foreign country without my passport, it is a safety net in case you have an accident or anything happens to you and you need consular help. If you have it in a safe place and never let it out of your sight, theft is a smaller risk than being stranded without access to help or unable to be identified.

Anni

[John Bull]

I would personally never consider travelling in a foreign country without my passport, it is a safety net in case you have an accident or anything happens to you and you need consular help. If you have it in a safe place and never let it out of your sight, theft is a smaller risk than being stranded without access to help or unable to be identified.

Anni

 

Sorry, Anni, but statistics prove that loss or theft of a passport ashore is actually a much much greater risk & carries greater consequences than being stranded without it - whether stranded due to accident, illness, or even simply getting back to the pier in time.

This is why cruise lines advise folk to leave their passport in the cabin safe unless they're obliged to take it ashore - such as in SPB.

Consular help is available with or without a passport, though a photocopy with passport number, place of issue, etc makes it easier.

 

But there are risks either way, and whether to carry your passport ashore is a question of what you feel most comfortable with.

Mine stays in the cabin safe.

 

BTW it is policy, certainly for most cruise lines, that if a passenger doesn't return to the ship when it's due to sail, the cabin safe will be searched & passports handed to the ship's port agent before casting-off. Not 100% guaranteed, but it greatly reduces the risk of being stranded without passport.

Port agent's contact details always in ship's daily news-sheets.

 

JB :)

[Travelanni]

Sorry, Anni, but statistics prove that loss or theft of a passport ashore is actually a much much greater risk & carries greater consequences than being stranded without it - whether stranded due to accident, illness, or even simply getting back to the pier in time.

This is why cruise lines advise folk to leave their passport in the cabin safe unless they're obliged to take it ashore - such as in SPB.

Consular help is available with or without a passport, though a photocopy with passport number, place of issue, etc makes it easier.

 

But there are risks either way, and whether to carry your passport ashore is a question of what you feel most comfortable with.

Mine stays in the cabin safe.

 

BTW it is policy, certainly for most cruise lines, that if a passenger doesn't return to the ship when it's due to sail, the cabin safe will be searched & passports handed to the ship's port agent before casting-off. Not 100% guaranteed, but it greatly reduces the risk of being stranded without passport.

Port agent's contact details always in ship's daily news-sheets.

 

JB :)

 

Hi John,

I take your points as regards cruise ships and consular help. Never having had much experience of this kind of travel I heed what your experience is telling me.

It would be interesting to see the statistics of passport theft broken down first into areas, ie. Europe, Asia, Middle East etc. and then how many were stolen from people stupid enough to let them out of their sight. Example, one of the guys involved in the latest incident who admitted he had his passport stolen when he left it as deposit on a motorcycle rental in Thailand !

However, as you say it is a matter of being comfortable with what you do. I am used to carrying my passport at all times here in Germany and the Captains of cargo ships (my usual form of 'cruising') insist that you have your passport with you when going ashore, the same as crew members. So I think I will stick to what I am used to.

Happy cruising :)

Anni

 

[John Bull]

Hi John,

I take your points as regards cruise ships and consular help. Never having had much experience of this kind of travel I heed what your experience is telling me.

It would be interesting to see the statistics of passport theft broken down first into areas, ie. Europe, Asia, Middle East etc. and then how many were stolen from people stupid enough to let them out of their sight. Example, one of the guys involved in the latest incident who admitted he had his passport stolen when he left it as deposit on a motorcycle rental in Thailand !

However, as you say it is a matter of being comfortable with what you do. I am used to carrying my passport at all times here in Germany and the Captains of cargo ships (my usual form of 'cruising') insist that you have your passport with you when going ashore, the same as crew members. So I think I will stick to what I am used to.

Happy cruising :)

Anni

 

 

Hi Anni,

Can't help with the breakdown of passport thefts, though I suspect - as I think you do - that Asia has more than its fair share.

But I do know that "missing" passports (including those simply mis-laid) runs into tens of millions worldwide, and some 60,000 per year are mis-used just for illegal travel - not including the vast majority such as on the K/L flight which aren't checked against Interpol records. So it's a fair-sized problem.

 

We often fly out to join cruises, so of course need our passports to fly home - another reason why we tend to play safe & leave passports on the ship.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that all Baltic ports except Russia, plus Netherlands, Belgium, France & Norway are in Schengen countries, so passports aren't needed to play catch-up between those countries if you miss a sailing - all you need is govt photo-ID such as a driving licence if flying, plus credit card for the costs.

 

But as we agree, there's no right or wrong - only opinion & what we're comfortable with.

 

BTW, cruising on a freighter sounds kinda romantic, but sea-days aren't my thing so I'll stick with boring old cruise ships :p ;)

 

JB :)

[dwjoe]

Consider also where the nearest US consulate is for each port. If one is nearby, it will be easier to replace a lost passport than if the nearest one is far away.

[Hlitner]

German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

I would personally never consider travelling in a foreign country without my passport, it is a safety net in case you have an accident or anything happens to you and you need consular help. If you have it in a safe place and never let it out of your sight, theft is a smaller risk than being stranded without access to help or unable to be identified.

Anni

 

Am just wondering what you do with "your identification" when you are swimming in the sea.

 

Hank

[Jonza]

You are legally required to carry valid travel identity documents (passport, EU national ID card) when crossing a border even inside the Schengen zone.

 

You can check the actual legislation regarding border crossings in the Schengen zone on EU website. Cruise ship specific rules are on page 27 of the document.

 

As the rules state "an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration" based on the passenger list and other info determines weather or not a Schengen state carries out border or (more commonly) customs checks on passengers going ashore. The default is not to check when the previous port is inside the Schengen zone. The default rule is to check all passengers going ashore if the previous port was outside Schengen zone and the passengers going back to the ship if the next port is outside the zone. However the current practice for Baltic cruises seems to be that even these checks are commonly omitted based on the risk assessment.

 

However this does mean that cruise passengers going ashore may be subject to checks if customs or border patrol has reason to believe that someone on board is trying to smuggle something into the country or is attempting to enter the country illegally. If you get hit by a random check and are unable to produce your passport, you would have to have someone fetch it for you from your cabin and likely get fined.

 

I understand that people want to protect their passports and are used to leaving them in the safe on Caribbean cruises where you are not required to have them ashore. Here you are not going to go on a beach and can easily store it securely on your person and you are required by law to have it to cross a border even though they are very rarely checked.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Jonza

[4774Papa]

Sorry, Anni, but statistics prove that loss or theft of a passport ashore is actually a much much greater risk & carries greater consequences than being stranded without it - whether stranded due to accident, illness, or even simply getting back to the pier in time.

This is why cruise lines advise folk to leave their passport in the cabin safe unless they're obliged to take it ashore - such as in SPB.

Consular help is available with or without a passport, though a photocopy with passport number, place of issue, etc makes it easier.

 

But there are risks either way, and whether to carry your passport ashore is a question of what you feel most comfortable with.

Mine stays in the cabin safe.

 

BTW it is policy, certainly for most cruise lines, that if a passenger doesn't return to the ship when it's due to sail, the cabin safe will be searched & passports handed to the ship's port agent before casting-off. Not 100% guaranteed, but it greatly reduces the risk of being stranded without passport.

Port agent's contact details always in ship's daily news-sheets.

 

JB :)

Agree,

We leave passports in the cabin safe and take copies of passports. If you are on a tour or excursion, the chance of having to show your passport is very small.

Of course, some ports, you are instructed by the cruise line to take your passport.

[dsrdsrdsr]

German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

I would personally never consider travelling in a foreign country without my passport, it is a safety net in case you have an accident or anything happens to you and you need consular help. If you have it in a safe place and never let it out of your sight, theft is a smaller risk than being stranded without access to help or unable to be identified.

Anni

When I'm in need of help, a credit card is more use than a passport. All a passport will do is get me across borders, and if I'm in Germany that won't be an insurmountable problem. As for being unidentifiable, the only way that's likely to happen is if I've been mugged and robbed of everything I possess (including my diary) - so I won't have a passport either way.

 

Possibly I'm breaching German law by not having official government ID - I'll take the risk. I hate that law anyway.

[John Bull]

You are legally required to carry valid travel identity documents (passport, EU national ID card) when crossing a border even inside the Schengen zone.

 

You can check the actual legislation regarding border crossings in the Schengen zone on EU website. Cruise ship specific rules are on page 27 of the document.

 

As the rules state "an assessment of the risks related to internal security and illegal immigration" based on the passenger list and other info determines weather or not a Schengen state carries out border or (more commonly) customs checks on passengers going ashore. The default is not to check when the previous port is inside the Schengen zone. The default rule is to check all passengers going ashore if the previous port was outside Schengen zone and the passengers going back to the ship if the next port is outside the zone. However the current practice for Baltic cruises seems to be that even these checks are commonly omitted based on the risk assessment.

 

However this does mean that cruise passengers going ashore may be subject to checks if customs or border patrol has reason to believe that someone on board is trying to smuggle something into the country or is attempting to enter the country illegally. If you get hit by a random check and are unable to produce your passport, you would have to have someone fetch it for you from your cabin and likely get fined.

 

I understand that people want to protect their passports and are used to leaving them in the safe on Caribbean cruises where you are not required to have them ashore. Here you are not going to go on a beach and can easily store it securely on your person and you are required by law to have it to cross a border even though they are very rarely checked.

 

Sorry, Jonza, but you're seriously over-egging the requirements.

 

The passport/visa/etc requirement regarding the external borders of Schengen countries is similar to the borders of other countries, except that it tends to be much more lax.

As an example of the laxity of external border controls, I have regularly driven coach parties from the UK (non-Schengen) to France (Schengen) via the Channel tunnel without me or my passengers having to show our passports - in fact, the French border post (which is actually on UK soil) is usually un-manned. Whereas this might be seen as an advantage it's actually a potential pitfall, because it places the onus on the driver to ensure that his passenger manifest is correct. Also, since passports have to be produced at UK immigration on the return journey, the driver has to be sure before setting off that his passengers have their passports, that they are in date, etc, or there'll be problems - not in Europe, but in returning to the UK.

 

Once within "Schengen" Europe, the borders are marked only by signs, there are no barriers or even speed-humps, the old border posts are empty & dilapidated, or have been removed. No passports are required - not for Schengen nationals, not for non-Schengen EU nationals, not for non-Europeans.

The document you linked specifically denies individual states the right to require a passport to be produced when crossing an internal border.

 

I have been subjected to random checks on my driving docs, tacho charts, etc, in Schengen countries, same as in the UK, but have never been asked to produce my passport - I am not obliged to carry it & the authorities have no right to demand to see it, though common sense says it helps to confirm my identity if it were ever queried.

I've also been subjected to a random customs search when travelling from Belgium to France. Several trucks were being thoroughly searched, but after a cursory check we were allowed to continue. Again, no passports were sought.

 

All Schengen countries, just like any other country in the world, have the right to check your identity anywhere at any time in the interest of crime prevention, including illegal immigration. This may include a state's right to require its own citizens to carry an ID card - but carrying a passport is not a requirement. Perhaps you can quote the source of your assertion that it is, and of the fine for not producing one.

 

The document's references to cruise ship passengers also demonstrates the difference between ships travelling from or to a non-Schengen country and those travelling between Schengen countries.

There are no requirements when sailing between Schengen countries.

The requirements when arriving from a non-Schengen country are very similar to the relaxations granted by many other countries - immigration officials place the onus on the ship's captain to verify passports & to provide a passenger manifest.

 

There are special provisions for special circumstances, but they're very very unlikely to impact on bona-fide visitors.

 

Again, sorry but you've over-egged the requirements.

 

BTW, like the UK govt., I think the open-borders policy is way too lax and am happy that the UK is non-Schengen.

 

JB :)

Edited March 12, 2014 by John Bull

[dwjoe]

John Bull,.

 

Can you speak to the general ID requirements of the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland? Specifically, can you travel between the two countries using just a UK or Irish driver's license, or other document short of a passport?

 

Thanks

[Travelanni]

When I'm in need of help, a credit card is more use than a passport. All a passport will do is get me across borders, and if I'm in Germany that won't be an insurmountable problem. As for being unidentifiable, the only way that's likely to happen is if I've been mugged and robbed of everything I possess (including my diary) - so I won't have a passport either way.

 

Possibly I'm breaching German law by not having official government ID - I'll take the risk. I hate that law anyway.

 

 

As a visitor to Germany you are not breaching German law. I clearly said (quote) German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

Most Germans regard this law as sensible and are quite surprised that other countries do not require their citizens to carry ID. Please note that I said surprised at another country's laws not critical of them or refusing to comply.

Neither are you breaching EU law as long as you do not cross a border between Schengen countries. When crossing from one country to another passports are rarely, if ever, checked but the law says you should carry one.

It really comes down to personal choice and your willingness to observe the laws of the countries in which you are travelling, however much you disagree with them.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Travelanni

[Jonza]

Sorry, Jonza, but you're seriously over-egging the requirements.

 

The passport/visa/etc requirement regarding the external borders of Schengen countries is similar to the borders of other countries, except that it tends to be much more lax.

As an example of the laxity of external border controls, I have regularly driven coach parties from the UK (non-Schengen) to France (Schengen) via the Channel tunnel without me or my passengers having to show our passports - in fact, the French border post (which is actually on UK soil) is usually un-manned. Whereas this might be seen as an advantage it's actually a potential pitfall, because it places the onus on the driver to ensure that his passenger manifest is correct. Also, since passports have to be produced at UK immigration on the return journey, the driver has to be sure before setting off that his passengers have their passports, that they are in date, etc, or there'll be problems - not in Europe, but in returning to the UK.

 

Once within "Schengen" Europe, the borders are marked only by signs, there are no barriers or even speed-humps, the old border posts are empty & dilapidated, or have been removed. No passports are required - not for Schengen nationals, not for non-Schengen EU nationals, not for non-Europeans.

The document you linked specifically denies individual states the right to require a passport to be produced when crossing an internal border.

 

I have been subjected to random checks on my driving docs, tacho charts, etc, in Schengen countries, same as in the UK, but have never been asked to produce my passport - I am not obliged to carry it & the authorities have no right to demand to see it, though common sense says it helps to confirm my identity if it were ever queried.

I've also been subjected to a random customs search when travelling from Belgium to France. Several trucks were being thoroughly searched, but after a cursory check we were allowed to continue. Again, no passports were sought.

 

All Schengen countries, just like any other country in the world, have the right to check your identity anywhere at any time in the interest of crime prevention, including illegal immigration. This may include a state's right to require its own citizens to carry an ID card - but carrying a passport is not a requirement. Perhaps you can quote the source of your assertion that it is, and of the fine for not producing one.

 

The document's references to cruise ship passengers also demonstrates the difference between ships travelling from or to a non-Schengen country and those travelling between Schengen countries.

There are no requirements when sailing between Schengen countries.

The requirements when arriving from a non-Schengen country are very similar to the relaxations granted by many other countries - immigration officials place the onus on the ship's captain to verify passports & to provide a passenger manifest.

 

There are special provisions for special circumstances, but they're very very unlikely to impact on bona-fide visitors.

 

Again, sorry but you've over-egged the requirements.

 

BTW, like the UK govt., I think the open-borders policy is way too lax and am happy that the UK is non-Schengen.

 

JB :)

 

Probably a bit of misunderstanding here with the "likely" you highlighted. What I meant to say is that in the very unlikely situation that you would be targeted by a spot check at the border, you would likely be fined if you did not have valid ID documents.

 

On the point of not needing a passport (or the national ID card) you are just simply wrong. Here on the website of the Finnish Boarder Guard on travel documents (http://www.raja.fi/guidelines/travel_documents) it says:

 

When you cross the border from one Schengen country to another, your travel documents are normally not inspected by authorities. Nevertheless, you must still carry a valid travel document accepted by the member state in question (passport or the new type of ID card). Please note that transport companies may inspect their passengers' travel documents in internal traffic too.

 

The checks you give as examples sound like regular traffic enforcement and have nothing to do with crossing the border. In central Europe the land borders have truly disappeared and the economic areas continue seamlessly from one country to another.

 

Here around the Baltic Sea the situation is a bit different as say for example to get from Helsinki to Tallinn and vice versa you need to hop on a ferry for two hours. This both reduces the integration and gives the authorities the information about who is crossing the border and somewhat better possibilities to try to prevent drug trafficking, alcohol and tobacco smuggling for resale etc. Finnish customs does checks on suspicious travelers at the harbors daily and if you happen to be the same gender and about the same age as one of their targets, you are asked to show your ID. Now at that point if you did not have your passport or national ID card, you would be crossing a border form one Schengen country to another without valid ID. To my understanding what happens then is up to national law. In Finland this would be considered a minor national border crime and you would either get fined ca. 500 € if your right to enter the country could be verified (by getting your passport there for example) or returned to your home country.

 

I do think that it would be extremely unlikely that a cruise ship would be used for such activities that it would be targeted by customs, but if that happened you would definitely want have your passport on you.

 

On Baltic cruises currently, the exception is currently the rule as Schengen entry and exit checks for passengers going ashore are usually waived in Helsinki and Tallinn before/after St.Petersburg as the cruise ships are considered very low risk.

[Giantfan13]

We carry our passports off every time we are in a different country. It may not the 'in' thing to do, but it just makes US feel safer knowing we have them if needed.

 

Plus, my DW likes to get hers stamped every time we cross a border.

 

Cheers

 

Len

[John Bull]

John Bull,.

 

Can you speak to the general ID requirements of the Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland? Specifically, can you travel between the two countries using just a UK or Irish driver's license, or other document short of a passport?

 

Thanks

 

Hi, Joe.

 

As you are aware, the UK & the Irish Republic have their own "Common Travel Area", which can vaguely be described as their own mini-version of Schengen - open borders between the two.

But of course different bureaucrats, so different rules.:rolleyes:

 

Usual passport & immigration rules for external borders, though I think there are concessions to EU nationals - certainly that's what the Irish Ferries link provided by Jonza says for its routes to France.

 

Brits & Irish can travel freely between the two, provided that they carry some form of govt-issued ID such as a driving licence.

I think non-Europeans are required to have a passport for travel between the two, though certainly there are dozens of little lanes that criss-cross the land border, monitored only by roving patrols or nowadays probably not at all - that's been the case since long before the EU, and exploited in the past by IRA and smugglers alike.

But since you will need a passport to enter either, when you cross you'll have yours with you anyway.

 

Many non-EU nationals resident in the UK or a Schengen country hold a local driving licence. Those licences don't show the holder's nationality, which makes a mockery of both the external & internal border regulations.

 

And Ryanair - but not Aer Lingus or the ferry companies - require a passport, regardless of nationality.

Airline rule, not govt. rule.

 

There's the usual no-passport concession to cruise passengers.

 

Rules, exemption, and loop-holes. :rolleyes:

 

 

Probably a bit of misunderstanding here with the "likely" you highlighted. What I meant to say is that in the very unlikely situation that you would be targeted by a spot check at the border, you would likely be fined if you did not have valid ID documents.

 

On the point of not needing a passport (or the national ID card) you are just simply wrong. Here on the website of the Finnish Boarder Guard on travel documents (http://www.raja.fi/guidelines/travel_documents) it says:

 

When you cross the border from one Schengen country to another, your travel documents are normally not inspected by authorities. Nevertheless, you must still carry a valid travel document accepted by the member state in question (passport or the new type of ID card). Please note that transport companies may inspect their passengers' travel documents in internal traffic too.

 

The checks you give as examples sound like regular traffic enforcement and have nothing to do with crossing the border. In central Europe the land borders have truly disappeared and the economic areas continue seamlessly from one country to another.

 

Here around the Baltic Sea the situation is a bit different as say for example to get from Helsinki to Tallinn and vice versa you need to hop on a ferry for two hours. This both reduces the integration and gives the authorities the information about who is crossing the border and somewhat better possibilities to try to prevent drug trafficking, alcohol and tobacco smuggling for resale etc. Finnish customs does checks on suspicious travelers at the harbors daily and if you happen to be the same gender and about the same age as one of their targets, you are asked to show your ID. Now at that point if you did not have your passport or national ID card, you would be crossing a border form one Schengen country to another without valid ID. To my understanding what happens then is up to national law. In Finland this would be considered a minor national border crime and you would either get fined ca. 500 € if your right to enter the country could be verified (by getting your passport there for example) or returned to your home country.

 

I do think that it would be extremely unlikely that a cruise ship would be used for such activities that it would be targeted by customs, but if that happened you would definitely want have your passport on you.

 

On Baltic cruises currently, the exception is currently the rule as Schengen entry and exit checks for passengers going ashore are usually waived in Helsinki and Tallinn before/after St.Petersburg as the cruise ships are considered very low risk.

 

Hi, Jonza, and thanks for the response.

 

So many rules & regulations in the different EU - and especially Schengen - countries have been changed over the past few decades in order to harmonise them & provide freedom to travel & freedom to trade on a level playing-field, the ethos of the EU.

Yet the documents you link, and the examples which you & I have both given, demonstrate that there are so many exceptions to each regulation that it's complicated enough for each of us to understand our own rights & obligations, let alone advise folk like Joe.

 

Thanks for confirming the Finnish govt's regulations requiring the carrying of either passport or ID card, and the Finnish govt's right to fine transgressors - though I'm not aware of any similar requirement in other EU countries I've travelled.

 

But your confirmation only adds to the idiocy of the regulations.

A driving licence is sufficient for a Finn travelling to a Nordic country ("Citizens of the Nordic countries may travel in the Nordic countries without a travel document but must be able to prove their identity on request. Documents accepted include a driving licence").

But it's not sufficient ID for a Finn travelling to other European countries ( "In accordance with Government Decree 1244/2006, Finnish citizens may travel from Finland to the following countries using a photo ID card ........... A driving licence is not an identity card.")

 

Your bureaucrats like to make life as complicated as ours. :rolleyes:

 

Anni was careful to stress that she is "surprised" by other countries' laws, not "critical".

But you've probably guessed that I'm very critical of the EU, and of the world's bureaucrats.

Yep, I'm a "Little Englander", being dragged unwillingly by politicians into what will surely one day be the United States of Europe..

 

Now my head hurts - I need a coffee. Or something stronger :D

 

JB :)

Edited March 13, 2014 by John Bull

[dsrdsrdsr]

As a visitor to Germany you are not breaching German law. I clearly said (quote) German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

Most Germans regard this law as sensible and are quite surprised that other countries do not require their citizens to carry ID. Please note that I said surprised at another country's laws not critical of them or refusing to comply.

Neither are you breaching EU law as long as you do not cross a border between Schengen countries. When crossing from one country to another passports are rarely, if ever, checked but the law says you should carry one.

It really comes down to personal choice and your willingness to observe the laws of the countries in which you are travelling, however much you disagree with them.

Thanks for that, I was reading the tone of it rather than the literal word-by-word interpretation

 

So I'm in the clear on two counts - 1, I'm not obliged to carry identification in Germany, and 2 - I'm carrying identification anyway in my diary and my credit card.

 

I always carry a passport at a border crossing, most Brits do because we have to have it to leave the country.

[Jonza]

Hi, Jonza, and thanks for the response.

 

So many rules & regulations in the different EU - and especially Schengen - countries have been changed over the past few decades in order to harmonise them & provide freedom to travel & freedom to trade on a level playing-field, the ethos of the EU.

Yet the documents you link, and the examples which you & I have both given, demonstrate that there are so many exceptions to each regulation that it's complicated enough for each of us to understand our own rights & obligations, let alone advise folk like Joe.

 

Thanks for confirming the Finnish govt's regulations requiring the carrying of either passport or ID card, and the Finnish govt's right to fine transgressors - though I'm not aware of any similar requirement in other EU countries I've travelled.

 

But your confirmation only adds to the idiocy of the regulations.

A driving licence is sufficient for a Finn travelling to a Nordic country ("Citizens of the Nordic countries may travel in the Nordic countries without a travel document but must be able to prove their identity on request. Documents accepted include a driving licence").

But it's not sufficient ID for a Finn travelling to other European countries ( "In accordance with Government Decree 1244/2006, Finnish citizens may travel from Finland to the following countries using a photo ID card ........... A driving licence is not an identity card.")

 

Your bureaucrats like to make life as complicated as ours. :rolleyes:

 

Anni was careful to stress that she is "surprised" by other countries' laws, not "critical".

But you've probably guessed that I'm very critical of the EU, and of the world's bureaucrats.

Yep, I'm a "Little Englander", being dragged unwillingly by politicians into what will surely one day be the United States of Europe..

 

Now my head hurts - I need a coffee. Or something stronger :D

 

JB :)

 

Oh yes, it is such a wonderful mess of slightly different rules possibly trying to accomplish the same outcome. :)

 

I tried to look for rules regarding travel documents, but they do not make it easy. I could not find any laws with a quick search, but for example the official tourism websites of Sweden and Denmark (visitsweden.com and visitdenmark.com) "You therefore do not need to show your passport when travelling between the Schengen countries, but you still need to bring your passport since you need to be able to confirm your nationality in various circumstances when visiting another Schengen country." and "You must still have your passport with you, however, when travelling in Schengen countries as a form of identification."

 

As the exact requirements may vary from country to country even inside the Schengen zone, I would in general trust that the cruise line will have the correct information on the documents required ashore printed on the daily information leaflets.

 

On a typical Baltic cruise you will cross many borders, many of the without any visible border procedures. You will always experience the Russian border checks at St. Petersburg. Rarely you might face a Schengen entry check at the port after St. Petersburg and a Schengen exit at the last port before Russia. If your cruise starts and ends in the UK similar possibilities for Schengen entry and exit checks do exist at the first/last ports after/before UK. There are the Schengen external borders where there is a low possibility for a check on all passengers going ashore and then there are the internal borders where there is an extremely rare possibility for targeted checks on individuals going ashore.

[Alex71]

German citizens are required to carry identification at all times, they have a card for this purpose. As a resident non-citizen in Germany I am advised to carry my passport for the same purpose.

I would personally never consider travelling in a foreign country without my passport, it is a safety net in case you have an accident or anything happens to you and you need consular help. If you have it in a safe place and never let it out of your sight, theft is a smaller risk than being stranded without access to help or unable to be identified.

Anni

 

I don't think that's correct. Here's the link to the actual law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pauswg/__1.html

 

Germans are required to possess an ID (ID card or passport), but not to carry it with them at all times. I am German and usually have my ID card in my wallet, but I by no means have to. My wife is American and never carries her passport with her. In the 14 years she been living in Germany, her driver's license was always accepted as identification.

 

We of course take our passports / ID cards with us when crossing land borders into other Schengen countries, since random checks can be performed. On a cruise however, we would not take a passport with us unless required. On some recent Med cruises, the cruise line (MSC) collected the passports of non EU citizens and kept them for the duration of the cruise, so it would not even been possible to take them ashore.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Alex71

[4774Papa]

I don't think that's correct. Here's the link to the actual law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pauswg/__1.html

 

Germans are required to possess an ID (ID card or passport), but not to carry it with them at all times. I am German and usually have my ID card in my wallet, but I by no means have to. My wife is American and never carries her passport with her. In the 14 years she been living in Germany, her driver's license was always accepted as identification.

 

We of course take our passports / ID cards with us when crossing land borders into other Schengen countries, since random checks can be performed. On a cruise however, we would not take a passport with us unless required. On some recent Med cruises, the cruise line (MSC) collected the passports of non EU citizens and kept them for the duration of the cruise, so it would not even been possible to take them ashore.

I am an American that worked in Germany for four years and never carried my passport with me. I remember one day, I was jogging and a policeman stopped me and asked for my identification. Fortunately, he spoke English. I explained that I was jogging and did not carry my wallet or any ID. He let me go.

[Travelanni]

I don't think that's correct. Here's the link to the actual law: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pauswg/__1.html

 

Germans are required to possess an ID (ID card or passport), but not to carry it with them at all times. I am German and usually have my ID card in my wallet, but I by no means have to. My wife is American and never carries her passport with her. In the 14 years she been living in Germany, her driver's license was always accepted as identification.

 

We of course take our passports / ID cards with us when crossing land borders into other Schengen countries, since random checks can be performed. On a cruise however, we would not take a passport with us unless required. On some recent Med cruises, the cruise line (MSC) collected the passports of non EU citizens and kept them for the duration of the cruise, so it would not even been possible to take them ashore.

 

I am only repeating what I was told by the Bürgeramt when registering my residency and again when I failed to be able to produce either an ID card or passport when my friend and I were checked by the police, returning home late one night ( a very rare occasion on which I had forgotten it - doesn't it always happen!).

I was given a copy of the law (in English) with the second sentence (quote) "You must present it upon request to any authorised person to establish your identity" highlighted and told that as a non-citizen I am not entitled to a German ID card but should use my passport and residency certificate instead. I took this to mean that it must be carried at all times. Most of my German friends seem to believe that this is the law too. Maybe it is just a left-over from DDR in this part of the country.

FYI - ship's authorities have every right to collect passports and keep them for the purpose of immigration procedures but once Immigration have cleared the ship they have no right whatsoever to deny a passenger's request for their passport when going ashore.

Anni

 

[Alex71]

I am only repeating what I was told by the Bürgeramt when registering my residency and again when I failed to be able to produce either an ID card or passport when my friend and I were checked by the police, returning home late one night ( a very rare occasion on which I had forgotten it - doesn't it always happen!).

I was given a copy of the law (in English) with the second sentence (quote) "You must present it upon request to any authorised person to establish your identity" highlighted and told that as a non-citizen I am not entitled to a German ID card but should use my passport and residency certificate instead. I took this to mean that it must be carried at all times. Most of my German friends seem to believe that this is the law too. Maybe it is just a left-over from DDR in this part of the country.

FYI - ship's authorities have every right to collect passports and keep them for the purpose of immigration procedures but once Immigration have cleared the ship they have no right whatsoever to deny a passenger's request for their passport when going ashore.

Anni

 

 

Maybe these were some leftover DDR practices. When my wife had to renew her American passport a few years ago, the process was that she had to mail in her old passport (with her German residence permit) and received her new passport a few weeks later in the mail. She called the Bürgeramt to ask if it would be a problem not to have a passport for a few weeks and was told not to worry.

 

In case police needs to establish a person's identity and that person has no form of ID whatsoever, police could take that person to a police station for identification though. Therefore it might be wise to carry some form of ID, such as a driver's licence, that is easier to replace and not so critical for the trip home.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Alex71