PVSA and length of time between cruises

[xbatt8]

Hello fellow cruisers.

 

OK, I have a pretty good grasp on the PVSA and MOST of the nuances. What I have not found a definitive answer on yet is how long between getting off the ship and getting back on is allowed.

 

SO, does anyone have experience with this? Has anyone been allowed to board the ship a day later and it not been considered a continuation? 2 days? a week?

 

I really don't know if there is a definitive answer as the PVSA doesn't define continuous (nor do recent additions and addendums). But if anyone has knowledge on this subject I would appreciate hearing it.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

[marvholly]

NO PVSA restrictions. People do back to backs (B2B) ALL the time. Sometimes on the same ship and sometimes changing ships.

 

You can see numerous posts here.

[chengkp75]

Hello fellow cruisers.

 

OK, I have a pretty good grasp on the PVSA and MOST of the nuances. What I have not found a definitive answer on yet is how long between getting off the ship and getting back on is allowed.

 

SO, does anyone have experience with this? Has anyone been allowed to board the ship a day later and it not been considered a continuation? 2 days? a week?

 

I really don't know if there is a definitive answer as the PVSA doesn't define continuous (nor do recent additions and addendums). But if anyone has knowledge on this subject I would appreciate hearing it.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

Could you supply an example of your proposed itinerary? That would help with the fine points.

[Budget Queen]

This month, I got off the Conquest, then walked over, 1 dock and waited to get on the Glory. I am platinum, so did have a wait, due to having to be off the Conquest that morning. This was out of Miami. But normally, you will NEVER see me, waiting in line, early to get on a ship. It does not matter to me, and I certainly do not have to be "first". I don't get the real early "waiters" I have taken 5 cruises this year, and each time saw people waiting to board when I was getting off the ship. Exiting the Glory, Sunday at 8am, they were there. :) (like all the other cruises) I admit, I am jaded, the Glory was cruise 87 for me.

[Tapi]

NO PVSA restrictions. People do back to backs (B2B) ALL the time.

.

 

 

That is not correct.

 

You can't do a B2B if the port of embarkation on leg 1 is a US port that's a different US port than the port of debarkation on leg 2 and you're staying on the same ship. For example, you can't do Miami to San Juan followed by San Juan to New Orleans because in reality you'd be doing a cruise between Miami and New Orleans. The only exception to that rule is if the ship calls at a "distant foreign port", like Aruba, Curaçao or Bonaire. Not to confuse you further, but if the 1 leg begins or ends in San Juan, then the distant foreign port requirement is waived. But when you add leg 1 and leg 2, then it's a requirement.

 

To answer the OP's question, if you're swapping ships, PVSA will not affect you. You can get off one ship and walk right over to the next. Also you won't have a PVSA restriction if you're sailing on the same ship but on B2B closed loop sailings (meaning that you're beginning and ending in the same city). In that case, you can stay on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

Edited March 27, 2014 by Tapi

[uksimonusa]

NO PVSA restrictions. People do back to backs (B2B) ALL the time. Sometimes on the same ship and sometimes changing ships.

 

You can see numerous posts here.

 

People do B2Bs all the time, that start and end in the same port, the PSVA covers the transportation on people from one American port to another, and sometimes a B2B on cruises to Alaska Hawaii, etc. can be in violation of the PVSA.

[Disconnections]

If you are doing a back to back with both legs starting and ending in the same port, that is fine. However, if you are looking at a back to back itinerary that violates the Jones Act, you must either:

 

• Switch ships in between legs
  
• Disembark and wait until the next day before embarking the same ship
  

 

An example of a back to back that violates the PVSA could be the coastal cruises between Seattle and Vancouver with Vancouver to California that Princess, Holland America and Celebrity occasionally have.

[klfrodo]

Hello fellow cruisers.

 

OK, I have a pretty good grasp on the PVSA and MOST of the nuances. What I have not found a definitive answer on yet is how long between getting off the ship and getting back on is allowed.

 

SO, does anyone have experience with this? Has anyone been allowed to board the ship a day later and it not been considered a continuation? 2 days? a week?

 

I really don't know if there is a definitive answer as the PVSA doesn't define continuous (nor do recent additions and addendums). But if anyone has knowledge on this subject I would appreciate hearing it.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

Let's say for example you wanted to do

LA to Vancouver

Then follow that up with Vancouver to Anchorage

 

That would be back to back and ??could be?? a PVSA violation.

The 24 hour cloclk would be in affect here.

Arrive in Vancouver on Saturday, get off the ship, spend the night in a hotel.

Get up Sunday morning, check in and board the ship,,, not in violation of PVSA

 

On the other hand

Same trip

LA to Vancouver on Carnival. Arrive on Saturday, get off the ship, walk over to HAL, board the ship to Anchorage, while technically a violation,,, not sure it would be caught especially if you were to purchase the trips on different days from different vendors.

[chengkp75]

Let's say for example you wanted to do

LA to Vancouver

Then follow that up with Vancouver to Anchorage

 

That would be back to back and ??could be?? a PVSA violation.

The 24 hour cloclk would be in affect here.

Arrive in Vancouver on Saturday, get off the ship, spend the night in a hotel.

Get up Sunday morning, check in and board the ship,,, not in violation of PVSA

 

On the other hand

Same trip

LA to Vancouver on Carnival. Arrive on Saturday, get off the ship, walk over to HAL, board the ship to Anchorage, while technically a violation,,, not sure it would be caught especially if you were to purchase the trips on different days from different vendors.

 

The second situation would not be a violation, as the two cruises are on different ships from different companies (even though Carnival and HAL are owned by the same parent).

[klfrodo]

The second situation would not be a violation, as the two cruises are on different ships from different companies (even though Carnival and HAL are owned by the same parent).

 

Thanks for the clarification :D

[crzndeb]

Hello fellow cruisers.

 

OK, I have a pretty good grasp on the PVSA and MOST of the nuances. What I have not found a definitive answer on yet is how long between getting off the ship and getting back on is allowed.

 

SO, does anyone have experience with this? Has anyone been allowed to board the ship a day later and it not been considered a continuation? 2 days? a week?

 

I really don't know if there is a definitive answer as the PVSA doesn't define continuous (nor do recent additions and addendums). But if anyone has knowledge on this subject I would appreciate hearing it.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob[/

 

Without a specific itinerary, you have opened a can of worms. Normally, it would be 24 hours, but I don't know of any cruise that this would pertain to. As others have said, changing ships voids any ship that starts in one US port and ends in another US port without stopping at a distant foreign port.

 

A ship overnighting in a port doesn't make it right, because the manifest is not cleared whether you stay on shore or not.

 

Unless you have a specific cruise in mind, why worry about it?

[chengkp75]

I really think the OP is asking how long he is required or is allowed to stay off the vessel during a B2B on the same ship. If you are travelling on the same ship, and the two cruises of your B2B are returning to the same US port, there is no PVSA violation, and how long you are allowed/required off the ship is up to the cruise line. No other combination of cruises B2B would make any sense in his question. Again, hoping he comes back with an itinerary.

[Cruiseaholichal]

OK -- what is PVSA ??

[xbatt8]

Ok, yes, I know that B2B in a closed loop would not violate the PVSA. I assumed 2 cruises that would normally violate it like a cruise from LA to Vancouver, then a cruise from Seattle to Seattle on the same ship. If you stay off the ship for the one night Vancouver to to Seattle cruise, does that break the PVSA assumption of continuous? I had read older posts where there were many opinions saying both yes and no. People have said that continuous means different things to different cruise lines. Some say that 1 day or 7 days in between, by being on the same ship, you are still on the same "trip" so it violates the PVSA. What I was hoping for was someone who had either done it or been told that they can't to help bring that debate closer to an end for me.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Bob

Edited March 27, 2014 by xbatt8

[Shmoo here]

Ok, yes, I know that B2B in a closed loop would not violate the PVSA. I assumed 2 cruises that would normally violate it like a cruise from LA to Vancouver, then a cruise from Seattle to Seattle on the same ship. If you stay off the ship for the one night Vancouver to to Seattle cruise, does that break the PVSA assumption of continuous? I had read older posts where there were many opinions saying both yes and no. People have said that continuous means different things to different cruise lines. Some say that 1 day or 7 days in between, by being on the same ship, you are still on the same "trip" so it violates the PVSA. What I was hoping for was someone who had either done it or been told that they can't to help bring that debate closer to an end for me.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Bob

 

Just a little clarification - Are you asking about taking 2 cruises - LA to Vancouver, then traveling to Seattle to do a roundtrip cruise (Seattle to Seattle)?

 

If so, the way I understand it, this would not be a violation of the PVSA. The PVSA states that no foreign flagged vessel can transport a passenger from one US port to a different US port without a stop in a distant foreign port.

 

The cruises as specified do not meet the "one US port to a different US port" because the first cruise ends in a foreign port and the second cruise is a roundtrip from the same port. Not really a B2B.

 

If, instead, you were to take a LA to Vancouver cruise and also book the immediate following cruise (on the same ship) from Vancouver to Seattle, that would be a violation, because you would be transported from LA to Seattle.

[julie3fan]

OK -- what is PVSA ??

 

I didn't know this either so I Googled it. I doubt it's this example: PVSA Post Vasectomy Test Semen Analysis. :eek: I imagine OP is referring to this one: Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886. :)

 

I'll be interested to see if a definitive answer is provided here. I am also interested in doing some kind of B2B up or down the West Coast in the future.

 

Happy cruising!

 

Julie

[chengkp75]

Ok, yes, I know that B2B in a closed loop would not violate the PVSA. I assumed 2 cruises that would normally violate it like a cruise from LA to Vancouver, then a cruise from Seattle to Seattle on the same ship. If you stay off the ship for the one night Vancouver to to Seattle cruise, does that break the PVSA assumption of continuous? I had read older posts where there were many opinions saying both yes and no. People have said that continuous means different things to different cruise lines. Some say that 1 day or 7 days in between, by being on the same ship, you are still on the same "trip" so it violates the PVSA. What I was hoping for was someone who had either done it or been told that they can't to help bring that debate closer to an end for me.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Bob

 

Just curious, but what is the cruise line doing between Vancouver and Seattle? Are they doing a non-passenger transit? Are you joining one cruise later than the original embarkation? I think that if the cruise line did not allow you to book these two cruises on one reservation, then they would not be continuous.

[SadieN]

Just curious, but what is the cruise line doing between Vancouver and Seattle? Are they doing a non-passenger transit? Are you joining one cruise later than the original embarkation? I think that if the cruise line did not allow you to book these two cruises on one reservation, then they would not be continuous.

 

Carnival

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 8 day Vancouver- (Juneau, Skagway, Glacier Bay, Sitka) -Seattle

 

***

 

Bob--So you want to spend a few days in either Juneau or Vancouver then join the ship in Juneau?

 

***

Would this hypothetical itin violate PVSA???

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 1 night repo Vancouver-Seattle

April 27 7 day Seattle-Seattle

 

Pax who want to go do Seattle RT spend the night in Vancouver and getting to Seattle on their own?

Edited March 27, 2014 by SadieN

[chengkp75]

Carnival

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 8 day Vancouver-Seattle

 

***

 

Bob, the Hawaii cruise ends on the 28th.:p

 

Best bet is to go to another line. With your Karoake you'd wake up pax on HAL or Princess, lol

 

(never did hear how your Imagination cruises went?)

 

***

Would this hypothetical itin violate PVSA???

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 1 night repo Vancouver-Seattle

April 27 7 day Seattle-Seattle

 

Pax who want to go do Seattle RT spend the night in Vancouver and getting to Seattle on their own?

 

Confused. Your hypothetical itinerary has you arriving Vancouver on the 28th, a one night repo on the 28th, but then a 7 day Seattle round trip starting on the 27th? Did you mean 29th? Is the one night repo sold separately? I believe that this, with the pax doing their own arrangements for transfer from Vancouver to Seattle would be okay re: PVSA. It might be dicey if Carnival made the transfer arrangements, but technically would be okay.

 

Remember, you are dealing with CBP, who have traditionally made up their own rules and the application of those rules as they go along. Final say would be with Carnival. CBP fines the cruise line for PVSA violations, not the pax. Carnival's ticket contract says that they will pass the fine to the pax if the fine is caused by the pax's failure to complete the voyage. If Carnival allows the booking, and is then found by CBP to be in violation of the PVSA, it's their nickel.

[SadieN]

Thanks for the info

 

Yes, it was a typo should have been the 29

[chengkp75]

Thanks for the info

 

Yes, it was a typo should have been the 29

 

A bigger roadblock than CBP would be Carnival's booking agents, who frequently have no idea how the PVSA works, and tend to just blanket say "no, it won't be allowed". This applies to all cruise lines, not picking on CCL.

[smeyer418]

Carnival

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 8 day Vancouver- (Juneau, Skagway, Glacier Bay, Sitka) -Seattle

 

***

 

Bob--So you want to spend a few days in either Juneau or Vancouver then join the ship in Juneau?

 

***

Would this hypothetical itin violate PVSA???

 

April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver

April 28 1 night repo Vancouver-Seattle

April 27(9) 7 day Seattle-Seattle

 

Pax who want to go do Seattle RT spend the night in Vancouver and getting to Seattle on their own?

 

 

I am 99% sure its a violation to get on in LA and then get off after the 7 day cruise in Seattle. Its not how you consider it. Its consider that the same ship transported you from LA to Seattle...without a distant foreign port in between. Is the ship from Vancouver to Seattle sailing empty? that is a problem if its full and someone tries to do a b2b for the one nighter as well. It would be considered part of one continuous cruise and one night off the ship doesn't help..

 

BTW the Person who talked about the change in San Juan and two different starting and ending US-mainland ports- that isn't a violationas there is a currently existing exemption for San Juan(until such time as a US flagged vessel starts traveling to and from San Juan)...

[Shmoo here]

I am 99% sure its a violation to get on in LA and then get off after the 7 day cruise in Seattle. Its not how you consider it. Its consider that the same ship transported you from LA to Seattle...without a distant foreign port in between. Is the ship from Vancouver to Seattle sailing empty? that is a problem if its full and someone tries to do a b2b for the one nighter as well. It would be considered part of one continuous cruise and one night off the ship doesn't help..

 

BTW the Person who talked about the change in San Juan and two different starting and ending US-mainland ports- that isn't a violationas there is a currently existing exemption for San Juan(until such time as a US flagged vessel starts traveling to and from San Juan)...

 

BUT, if poster were to take the April 12 16 day LA-Hawaii-Vancouver, skip the April 28 1 night repo Vancouver-Seattle, and then board the April 29 7 day Seattle-Seattle, that would be OK? Maybe?

[chengkp75]

I am 99% sure its a violation to get on in LA and then get off after the 7 day cruise in Seattle. Its not how you consider it. Its consider that the same ship transported you from LA to Seattle...without a distant foreign port in between. Is the ship from Vancouver to Seattle sailing empty? that is a problem if its full and someone tries to do a b2b for the one nighter as well. It would be considered part of one continuous cruise and one night off the ship doesn't help..

 

BTW the Person who talked about the change in San Juan and two different starting and ending US-mainland ports- that isn't a violationas there is a currently existing exemption for San Juan(until such time as a US flagged vessel starts traveling to and from San Juan)...

 

Yes, doing all three would violate the PVSA. The question was asked if the passengers got off in Vancouver, travelled on their own to Seattle, and then took a Seattle round trip, would that be okay. If the Seattle round trip is an advertised cruise, not a late embarkation on a cruise starting in Vancouver, then there would be no violation. This is why I asked whether the 1 day repo is sold separately.

[xbatt8]

Good info.

 

Yeah, Sharon had the better scenario than I did, but the result is the same.

 

The problem I had with this, is that some have said that many cruise lines, even if exiting in Vancouver making your own way to Seattle then boarding in Seattle, say that this would still be "continuous" as part of the same "trip".

 

I tried looking at different sites explaining the PVSA, and none of them really define the term continuous. Does 12 hours do it? 24? A different day? A different month (got off the Miracle on April 30th and got back on May 1st)?

 

I guess I would just have to let each cruise line make that determination as they would be the ones fined if they violate the act. However, even tho Chengkp75 says that Carnival would have to pay the fine if they allow the booking and then get fined, I would be MORE worried about them allowing the booking, then last minute telling me I can't and canceling one of my cruises.

 

Hence the reason I was trying to get a more accurate definition of "continuous".

 

I appreciate all the replies. I guess I should have put Carnival in the title so it wouldn't get moved. I posted on the Carnival board because it was Carnival who had the potential itineraries that would make this cruise dicey.

 

Bob