Activity Staff Reduction (3 Threads Merged)

[woodyren]

It has been posted elsewhere and on facebook by people on current cruises that Zumba is now only available for $11 through canyon Ranch.

[Classynfun1]

The accommodation provided for activities staff, dancers and singers, spa staff, etc has always been much nicer/better ratios than the accommodation for servers, stewards, etc. Now on newer ships this could have changed, but in the past it hasn't been. For example, on many lines, servers and stewards have often had accommodations that were 4 to a cabin. Activities staff, singers and dancers, etc had two to a cabin.

 

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[MisterBill99]

The accommodation provided for activities staff, dancers and singers, spa staff, etc has always been much nicer/better ratios than the accommodation for servers, stewards, etc. Now on newer ships this could have changed, but in the past it hasn't been. For example, on many lines, servers and stewards have often had accommodations that were 4 to a cabin. Activities staff, singers and dancers, etc had two to a cabin.

I wonder if the spa changeover has resulted in additional staff there?

[Michidoeme]

It seems to me that Celebrity just can not make up its mind. Another example that they are trying to re-position but don t know exactly what there target group should be.

On one hand they re trying to attract a younger clientele, on the other hand doing away with activities by activity staff that especially younger people seem to enjoy. On our last 2 (long, repo) cruises there were activities like Zumba, eggdrop, boat building, team events (different countries competing for price), equator crossing, etc. that certain people (especially some older ones ?) might find a bit silly, but which attracted a lot of the younger cruisers and was good fun for all to watch.

[AmberTeka]

It seems to me that Celebrity just can not make up its mind. Another example that they are trying to re-position but don t know exactly what there target group should be.

On one hand they re trying to attract a younger clientele, on the other hand doing away with activities by activity staff that especially younger people seem to enjoy. On our last 2 (long, repo) cruises there were activities like Zumba, eggdrop, boat building, team events (different countries competing for price), equator crossing, etc. that certain people (especially some older ones ?) might find a bit silly, but which attracted a lot of the younger cruisers and was good fun for all to watch.

 

That was very well said. When I posted comments about RCI, which I have never been on, I fear I must have appeared to be insulting people. I did not mean that. I meant that I am an older women, who travels only due to the marvelous new meds for R.A. and rock climbing, ice skating, etc. are things I would not be physically be able to do. Some can. And they love that type of activity. My daughter belongs to a running club and runs in Marathons. She would love it. As would her husband.

So apologies to all who were offended. If I had worded as well as the comment above....it would have been much more clear.

Trivia is something everyone can enjoy. We have played on teams with folks who were retired, in wheelchairs and others who had just graduated college. My Daughter, her husband and some of their friends won Box Seats at a jaguars Game playing Trivia. And I know. But we love our Jaguars, and one day......they are going to be tough. Wait and see.

To Me.......it is a consideration in booking cruises.

It is why we love Princess. That and the great folks who sail and work on that ship. But that could pertain to all ships.

[BayAreaBC]

RCCL and Celebrity's profits were down by 2/3rds in their latest earnings report. There will likely be further cost cutting.

[Orator]

It seems to me that Celebrity just can not make up its mind. Another example that they are trying to re-position but don t know exactly what there target group should be.

On one hand they re trying to attract a younger clientele, on the other hand doing away with activities by activity staff that especially younger people seem to enjoy. On our last 2 (long, repo) cruises there were activities like Zumba, eggdrop, boat building, team events (different countries competing for price), equator crossing, etc. that certain people (especially some older ones ?) might find a bit silly, but which attracted a lot of the younger cruisers and was good fun for all to watch.

 

Just off two weeks on Reflection and had an opportunity to talk to many staff, both Senior Officers and Crew. The activities are being redefined according to the particular cruise. More events for younger cruisers on cruises where the age demographic is lower, more events for older cruisers when the projected demographic is higher. The two weeks on Reflection were during the Easter break and a much younger demographic. There was trivia every day and theme parties almost evey night.Had a theme party at Solarium one evening that was definately aimed toward a younger demographic. Was also told that those who were cut from Activities Staff were offered new positions at Celebrity and RCCL. One or two were terminated, but these were terminations for cause.Several crew members told me that they found the reductions in activity staff to be positive since they gained some staff. Michaels Club also appeared to work well. I spoke to the people in the Reflection Suite (this was their first Celebrity cruise) and they said that their experience in Michaels Club increased their desire to cruise Celebrity again. A long time Princess cruiser staying in a Royal Suite for their first Celebrity cruise told me that access to Michael's Club was a plus for Celebrity and they are now planning future Celebrity cruises.

As I've said before, we just need to give it some time and see how it all shakes out. There will be some hits and misses along the way and not all will be happy. Celebrity certainly has a gamplan in place and I expect to see more of it revealed in time.

My cruises were FANTASTIC!

[richstowe]

I'm glad you had a good cruise Orator. :) I recognize that "we just need to give it some time and see how it all shakes out".

One thing I'm unclear on was who lead all the activities that you listed ? It has been posted that the staff is 1/2 of what it was.

If there are only a minimal number of Activity Staff remaining, who ran these programs.

[Orator]

I'm glad you had a good cruise Orator. :) I recognize that "we just need to give it some time and see how it all shakes out".

One thing I'm unclear on was who lead all the activities that you listed ? It has been posted that the staff is 1/2 of what it was.

If there are only a minimal number of Activity Staff remaining, who ran these programs.

 

The CD and Activities Manager did the evening programs. Oz, who has recieved a promotion, did a number of the afternoon activities. Don't know who did the trivia since I didn't attend, but saw it listed in the program. The Executive Chef hosted a number of cooking events. There were no speakers on these cruises, but I was told that speakers would be on TA. Need people on that cruise to verify. That's when I was told that the programs will be more demographically driven. The HD spoke at the CC Party and opened himself for questions. Someone asked about changes and he asserted that changes were not made to save cost, but to better respond to customer comments. He mentioned that feedback on the changes is invited and appreciated.

[Bobal]

Someone asked about changes and he asserted that changes were not made to save cost, but to better respond to customer comments. He mentioned that feedback on the changes is invited and appreciated.

 

The decision to put Zumba under the spa and start to charge has clearly been done so save costs and definitely without any regard for customer comments. The many responses on the separate thread specifically about Zumba would seem to back this up. Since the introduction of free zumba classes I have always made a positive comment on my feedback form - with specific reference to the fact that they were FREE - unlike most of their other exercise classes.

 

Since the zumba instructors were qualified instructors employed by Celebrity and under the Activities team and will now come under Canyon Ranch and will incur a charge there is no way they can say this wasn't done to save costs - or in response to what the customer wanted :(

Edited April 28, 2014 by Bobal

[Orator]

The decision to put Zumba under the spa and start to charge has clearly been done so save costs and definitely without any regard for customer comments. The many responses on the separate thread specifically about Zumba would seem to back this up. Since the introduction of free zumba classes I have always made a positive comment on my feedback form - with specific reference to the fact that they were FREE - unlike most of their other exercise classes.

 

Since the zumba instructors were qualified instructors employed by Celebrity and under the Activities team and will now come under Canyon Ranch and will incur a charge there is no way they can say this wasn't done to save costs - or in response to what the customer wanted :(

 

Simply from a business perspective:Does it make sense to allocate space, time and resources for a non revenue producing activity that less than 50 out of 3000+ passengers might want or use? If someone really wants an activity they should be willing to pay a fee (as they do in wine tasting or special lunches) or change their travel choices. Business 101.

[NLH Arizona]

Simply from a business perspective:Does it make sense to allocate space, time and resources for a non revenue producing activity that less than 50 out of 3000+ passengers might want or use? If someone really wants an activity they should be willing to pay a fee (as they do in wine tasting or special lunches) or change their travel choices. Business 101.

I totally agree. If an activity doesn't draw enough participants, then why not charge and this goes for all activities, which would include trivia, Zumba, etc.

[uktog]

Simply from a business perspective:Does it make sense to allocate space, time and resources for a non revenue producing activity that less than 50 out of 3000+ passengers might want or use? If someone really wants an activity they should be willing to pay a fee (as they do in wine tasting or special lunches) or change their travel choices. Business 101.

 

I cannot entirely agree with your maths. Zumba seemed to attract a much higher number on the pool deck than 50 on the cruise I was on - how many will pay for that elsewhere. I think you are saying, if its not revenue producing, you cannot have it. OK folks lets get ready for the pay barriers at the theatre, quizzes or Celebrity Life speakers - its the same thing really

 

PS I have never done Zumba, I am just a little perplexed as to why it is now ok for some daytime activities to be free of charge and others charged for. I can see it if there is a cost in raw materials (eg craft activity papers or wine tasting drinks) but otherwise, why not charge for quiz participation as well, $10 a team on the basis of a $50 prize for the winners.....................

[Orator]

I cannot entirely agree with your maths. Zumba seemed to attract a much higher number on the pool deck than 50 on the cruise I was on - how many will pay for that elsewhere. I think you are saying, if its not revenue producing, you cannot have it. OK folks lets get ready for the pay barriers at the theatre, quizzes or Celebrity Life speakers - its the same thing really

 

PS I have never done Zumba, I am just a little perplexed as to why it is now ok for some daytime activities to be free of charge and others charged for. I can see it if there is a cost in raw materials (eg craft activity papers or wine tasting drinks) but otherwise, why not charge for quiz participation as well, $10 a team on the basis of a $50 prize for the winners.....................

 

Every cruise has a different number of people participating in any particular activity. I've been on a few cruises and 50 appears average for most activities I've seen. You might see more or less, really doesn't matter. The point is that someone does pay for the "free" activity. Staff and resource costs are hidden in the basic cruise fare. Do you think tha all the new Suite perks won't add to the cost of a Suite? I have always favored a low base fare with available add ons for those who wish to customize their choices. I'd be more than willing to pay to hear a top speaker or see a special performance in the theater. Some, not I,would be willing to pay an extra charge for trivia if the prizes made that desirable. On a recent cruise some paid $30 for a Bingo card for a game that would move them into a Royal Suite. People who never play Bingo played. Bet that Celebrity more than recovered the cost of the Suite. Some might not, it's all about personal choice.

[Quo Vadis?]

Are you suggesting that Celebrity should start charging for listening to the guitarist, the party band around the pool, a dance duo, a string trio or Perry Grant, or perhaps for using the loungers around the pool? Many go to the various venues where there is live music and do not necessarily buy a drink.

How about cancelling religious services unless the plate is passed around there and according to your reasoning should be revenue producing because 2,000 people don't use the free service.

Perhaps Celebrity should use the European pay as you go wash room facilities.

 

I know that we would pay not to hear the Miami DJs and Miami's choice of ambient music around the ship.

[Orator]

Are you suggesting that Celebrity should start charging for listening to the guitarist, the party band around the pool, a dance duo, a string trio or Perry Grant, or perhaps for using the loungers around the pool? Many go to the various venues where there is live music and do not necessarily buy a drink.

How about cancelling religious services unless the plate is passed around there and according to your reasoning should be revenue producing because 2,000 people don't use the free service.

Perhaps Celebrity should use the European pay as you go wash room facilities.

 

I know that we would pay not to hear the Miami DJs and Miami's choice of ambient music around the ship.

 

I'm not "suggesting", I'm just reporting what the trend has been in the industry and in related industries. Look at what's happening in the airline industry. Want a meal, you pay.Want earlier boarding, you pay, want a larger seat in Coach, you know the answer. Yes, one airline has a lavatory charge. These charges will continue as long as enough are willing to pay. Both the cruiselines and airlines are reporting increased profits. I'd pay morejust not to listen to the loud music around the pool and other venues! By the way, Celebrity no longer provides for religious services except during special times such as Easter, Passover, Christmas, etc.. They will provide a room, but the passengers must organize. I recognize that this is the business model that's speading throughout the travel industry. I might not like it, but as they say: "It is what it is".What would you suggest as the alternative? Higher base fares? Lowering the quality of free programs? Cutting costs in other areas, such as food to cover costs? My suggestion is to keep a low base fare so that cruising becomes possible for more. Gain profit from the marketing of add ons that would be optional and available for those willing to pay. That's my suggestion?What's yours?

[chamima]

I believe "understanding" would be a accurate word to describe my statements. I understand how business works. I understand how the market is working. I understand the direction Celebrity is going. I understand that entropy is impossible if you want to grow a business. Now I suspect that you and others who disagree will tell me what I don't understand.

 

 

Everything you say makes sense and I would agree with you except that we also sail on Princess and don't see ANY of these changes on their ships.

 

I feel that's there's a definite lack of a sense of direction currently on Celebrity and they're not quite sure what they want to be . I'm hoping some clarity will emerge and they'll realize they have a niche NOT the same as NCL.

 

And as far as going in the direction of ala carte , why have the 1,2,3 packages been so successful for them if that's what their customer base wants?

[chamima]

http://www.cruisecritic.com/blog/index.php/2014/04/28/observed-onboard-charging-for-water/ :eek:

[Andy]

Are you suggesting that Celebrity should start charging for listening to the guitarist, the party band around the pool, a dance duo, a string trio or Perry Grant, or perhaps for using the loungers around the pool? Many go to the various venues where there is live music and do not necessarily buy a drink.

How about cancelling religious services unless the plate is passed around there and according to your reasoning should be revenue producing because 2,000 people don't use the free service.

Perhaps Celebrity should use the European pay as you go wash room facilities.

 

I know that we would pay not to hear the Miami DJs and Miami's choice of ambient music around the ship.

 

Agree with you on the Miami DJ's and the ambient music - though it wasn't terrible on Eclipse a few weeks ago. Annyoing at times, but tolerable. Interestingly, the ambient music became progressively worse, after I wrote about it being excellent in one of my early "Live From" posts.

 

As for your other suggestions ? Please, dont give them any ideas. As Celebrity seems to be focused on cutbacks, adding to onboard spending, and higher fares... they might just take you up on your ideas ! LOL

[Orator]

Everything you say makes sense and I would agree with you except that we also sail on Princess and don't see ANY of these changes on their ships.

 

I feel that's there's a definite lack of a sense of direction currently on Celebrity and they're not quite sure what they want to be . I'm hoping some clarity will emerge and they'll realize they have a niche NOT the same as NCL.

 

And as far as going in the direction of ala carte , why have the 1,2,3 packages been so successful for them if that's what their customer base wants?

 

At one time I was a frequent Princess cruiser, but haven't been on a Princess shipin more than years. So,I'm notin aposition to comment on what Princess may or may not be doing.

Don't know if Celebrity is moving to all inclusive or ala carte. We should see some direction soon.However, the game plan seems clear to me. Celebrity wants to seperate itself from the other mainstream lines such as RCCL, HAL and Princess. To do this they are targeting the higher spender who will present them with higher profit margins and, should I say,fewer problems. That's precisly why they've made a big splash about "Modern Luxury" and have implemented changes such as Michael's Club and a recently announced new exclusive Suite restaurant. I've said to some who are "in the know" that I'm willing to bet that the next new build will be an M size ship with a large number of Suites. To this point no one tells me that they will take that bet. I've had a number of discussions on this topic with people in the Miami office as well as officers with 4 strips or more on several ships. "Suites" and "Loyality" are the two words most frequently used to describle their focus. Things can change in an evolving process so notheing is certain until it's announced. I understand that Michael Bayley is a very focused person. I wouldn't expect him to strat without knowing where he is going. Once anagin only time will tell.

[Michidoeme]

Again, although I can understand the need for revenue, taking some of these free activities away only reinforces the image of Celebrity as an "older" cruiseline and does not fit with their apparent new direction towards younger cruisers. The zumba classes and other activities I mentioned before, where lots of "younger" and even older passengers joined in, livened up completely the atmosphere around the deck and made for fun experiences.

Now I enjoy very much to have my quiet time with a good book at the pool as well, but isn t this "dead" environment what turns a lot of younger cruisers away and the "old" reputation what Celebrity was trying to overcome ? My children (late twenties) who so far never wanted to come with us on a "retiree" cruise (their words), were slowly starting to consider Celebrity, but if there is no longer an activities staff with fun activities, I think they will certainly go with the "younger" cruiselines.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Michidoeme

[Quo Vadis?]

Both the cruiselines and airlines are reporting increased profits.

 

You may be reading different profit reports:

 

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/royalcaribbean-results-idINL3N0NG4PP20140428

 

(Reuters) - Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd, the world's second-largest cruise operator, said its quarterly profit fell by two-thirds as costs rose and six cruises were canceled or shortened due to several mishaps.

 

Many people have posted that so far cancellations have not affected them from trivia to Zumba. What many people do not realize is that this is the divide and conquer approach... cancel acapella: who cares we'll listen to the strings; cancel strings: who cares, we'll listen to the band and now you have a Miami DJ who obviously must appeal to everyone. Cancel trivia who cares we'll exercise instead and go to Zumba. Who cares, let's find a lounger... oops now all those people who used to be doing other things are now all in the same place looking for something else that is not available.

 

Death of cruising as it used to be by a thousand cuts. What's left: Will that be cash or charge... sorry key card only. Welcome to modern nickel and diming AKA: Modern Luxury.

[Orator]

You may be reading different profit reports:

 

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/royalcaribbean-results-idINL3N0NG4PP20140428

Death of cruising as it used to be by a thousand cuts. What's left: Will that be cash or charge... sorry key card only. Welcome to modern nickel and diming AKA: Modern Luxury.

 

The numbers are the numbers and the Reuters rport is accurate. Unfortunately the official earnings report doesn't break down the earnings by company. All reported under the Corporate name. We really don't know how well Celebrity did as a separate entity. Estimates for the year have raise by .05 per share according to the most recent stock holder report posted on investor Relations at Celebrity.

That being said, the President of RCCL appeared on CNBC following the release of the earnings report. He admitted that the Caribbean was a problem and had to be discounted. He remarked that Asia was better than expected and RCCL will be sending a new ship to China. One advantage of a ship is that it can be moved from a weak market to a strong market. Take a look at the new itinaries that Celebrity is offering. The Safari cruises are selling very quickly at premium prices. I look for new builds to reflect the need to do more exotic cruises appealing to higher income spenders.

I don't know how their moves will work out. As a stockholder I can only hope it works well. As a frequent cruiser I can only hope that the changes will enhance my total cruise experience. If not, like ships I can also move around.

[richstowe]

Lots of well reasoned thoughts expressed here.

This thread is starting to resemble the Zumba thread (Hey Host Andy, maybe it should be 4 threads merged),with 2 camps.

One side believes Celebrity is being short sighted greed-heads trying to cut out programs and nickel and dime its customers.

The other believes it is a business that needs to change and adapt or it will not prosper and also feels there is a rush to judgement .

I am in the first camp.

Are you suggesting that Celebrity should start charging for listening to the guitarist, the party band around the pool, a dance duo, a string trio or Perry Grant, or perhaps for using the loungers around the pool? Many go to the various venues where there is live music and do not necessarily buy a drink.

How about cancelling religious services unless the plate is passed around there and according to your reasoning should be revenue producing because 2,000 people don't use the free service.

Perhaps Celebrity should use the European pay as you go wash room facilities.

 

I know that we would pay not to hear the Miami DJs and Miami's choice of ambient music around the ship.

I would have added use of the life boats. If needed charges could be veeery high.

[neeko]

Charging a fee for lounge chairs around the pool would sure get rid of the chair hogs....I would pay for it....maybe a reserved area for that purpose