Is Carnival Falling Behind?

[cruisinfanatic]

Carnival falling behind NCL and RCCL? LOL... How? Because they don't want to build those Mall size ships that can't dock in a lot of ports, making them unappealing? hmmm.... RCCL and NCL builds nicer ships? Why? Because they're bigger? Need you be reminded Carnival owns MANY brands in the cruise industry and NONE of them are targeted at each other's demographic market. RCCL and NCL have NOTHING that can get even close to comparing with Cunard, a Carnival owned line. Bigger and newer is not better people... its all based on each person's opinions. Princess ships are every bit as "Nice" as any of those 2 lines... HAL is even nicer. Carnival is in a class all it's own. They are the leader in cheap, affordable cruises, and THAT is exactly the market they chose for THAT line... Cunard blows away EVERYTHING out there in elegance, once again, owning their demographic market. HAL does quite nicely in attracting the older crowd that still has some life left in them.

 

Personally, I have sailed RCCL and never care to do it again. Those huge Mall Of The Seas ships have no interest to me whatsoever, but if that's your cup of tea, have at it...

 

Carnival will be around as long as they want to be, and will continue to dominate their desired market.

Don't see how you can compare anything seeing your cruising history. Your mind was made up long ago with no first hand experience

[gtalum]

I couldn't disagree more. IMHO NCL offers a lot more right now than CCL can even dream of. In my 15 CCL cruises I can't remember a single ship offering bowling, where as I can do that on NCL. Fireworks on CCL, I don't think so but those just a couple of things and I could go on and on. I think the kids program can be subjective based on ship and crew. I will say this the kids in our group much prefer NCL kids/teen program but once again thats subjective.

 

Meh. The overall experience is the same. I enjoyed NCL, but I also enjoy CCL immensely.

 

Take my opinion with a grain of salt because my favorite cruise activity is chilling in a deck chair with a bucket of beer and reading, with an occasional trip down the waterslide and swimming in the pools... At night I end to float from bar to bar, and spend most of my time people-watching at the atrium bar. Everything else is superfluous. I have yet to be let down by Carnival in 10 sailings.

 

Perhaps it was just the staff on the Pearl when we went, but their kids' program was far less entertaining for our daughter than Camp Carnival.

Edited May 14, 2014 by gtalum

[gtalum]

Oh, and though I've never sailed with him as CD, I enjoy John Heald's humor. I've never been accused of having good taste, though (except in choosing a wife!). :D

Edited May 14, 2014 by gtalum

[bar1068]

Meh. The overall experience is the same. I enjoyed NCL, but I also enjoy CCL immensely.

 

Take my opinion with a grain of salt because my favorite cruise activity is chilling in a deck chair with a bucket of beer and reading, with an occasional trip down the waterslide and swimming in the pools... Everything else is superfluous. I have yet to be let down by Carnival in 10 sailings.

 

Perhaps it was just the staff on the Pearl when we went, but their kids' program was far less entertaining for our daughter than Camp Carnival.

 

I don't see why your opinion, which I share, should be taken with a grain of any thing...unless maybe a shot of grain alcohol, but thats a different story. Along with the "chilling" you mentioned, I like to pull a deck chair up to a railing so I can stair out at the ocean, with a decent cigar, and maybe couple belts of scotch. In the designated smoking area of course...don't want to touch another debate there.

 

Threads almost identical to this one have been or here before, that included the same..."my cruise ship can beat up your cruise ship", type of arguments, started for the same reasons from when NCL or RCCL announce new ship builds. Folks have made similar comments to yours, about being content to cruise a ship lacking all the bells and whistles of some of the newer ships. I've seen those folks TOLD in these threads that you can't POSSIBLY be content cruising a ship void of the "innovations" being..um...discussed here.

 

As a few have stated it's about choices, none of which are wrong, it's just whats right for you. Some apparently can't seem to be content with that.

[DGP1111]

. . . Carnival is in a class all it's own. They are the leader in cheap, affordable cruises, and THAT is exactly the market they chose for THAT line... Cunard blows away EVERYTHING out there in elegance, once again, owning their demographic market. HAL does quite nicely in attracting the older crowd that still has some life left in them.

 

I'm curious which of the Cunard vessels you enjoyed the most.

And if you had to guess the general average age of the passengers on your HAL sailing, what would that be (I realize it would only be a guess).

 

Thanks for any answers. :)

 

.

[Warm Breezes]

Why am I not surprised that the question of is Carnival innovating or losing an edge has turned into an echo chamber of the same people reposting that they want a cheap cruise and don't add anything.

 

Don't worry, Carnival isn't adding anything. Except Decks. And Crowds. And if that's what it takes to make the cruise fare low and make you happy, A-OK with me. But it's not innovation. I don't think there is anything wrong in stating Carnival gave up on being innovative a long time ago. They provide a certain experience for a certain price. People unwilling to see what they are missing outside of Carnival really paint themselves into a corner saying they love everything the way it is; how do you know?

 

And Carnival does not need to make monster ships or have a million pay for venues in order to innovate. That's not the only thing innovation means.

 

I know because I do sail other lines. I haven't sailed RCCL, yet, but I have sailed NCL, Princess, and Disney. Carnival is an option for us when we just want a low cost, relaxing get away. There are times we want more so we will pick a ship with more. It all depends on what we want out of that vacation. We sailed the Epic. This was a decision between Oasis and Epic since our want for that vacation was to try a newer, larger ship. We looked at the same rooms, same itinerary, same week. Epic was $1k less than Oasis. While I loved the entertainment, DH hated the size. DH thought Carnival food was better...I thought they were very similar with Carnival slightly better in the MDR and NCL better in the buffet. The kids had no interest in the rock climbing, slides, etc. and went to the teen club once. Some people just don't get into that type of stuff so they are not missing out by not going on a ship with it....most likely if they went on a ship with it on they would avoid it like my kids did. Now I'm not saying that I'm absolutely not going to try the one of the RCCL mega ships one day (or any RCCL ship)...but it has to be at a price I am willing to pay in comparrision to the other ships I am comparing it to for that vacation.

 

IMHO Carnival is fulfilling a niche that you are apparently not a part of. There is nothing wrong with that...you have other choices that will fullfull your wants and needs. What is wrong is assuming that there must be something wrong with those who are in that niche because they like what Carnival offers for the price they pay. If Carnival fullfills their wants and needs for their vacation, who are you to say they are missing out? Carnival may not be as innovative as you want and the changes they make may not appeal to you....but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there that they do appeal to. We all don't like to vacation for the same things you do. Choice is good...innovative or not.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Warm Breezes

[Casco Bay Kid]

Just announced. Oasis III Will have a tilt a whirl. Yesssss!

 

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[Big_G]

This statement is wrong on so many levels...... good thing your not at the helm. (NPI)

 

As entertaining as this whole thread is I'm more interested in why some of your comments have those great pics in the signature and some don't. Just curious. Battle on folks. :D

[Disconnections]

Carnival falling behind NCL and RCCL? LOL... How? Because they don't want to build those Mall size ships that can't dock in a lot of ports, making them unappealing? hmmm.... RCCL and NCL builds nicer ships? Why? Because they're bigger? Need you be reminded Carnival owns MANY brands in the cruise industry and NONE of them are targeted at each other's demographic market. RCCL and NCL have NOTHING that can get even close to comparing with Cunard, a Carnival owned line. Bigger and newer is not better people... its all based on each person's opinions. Princess ships are every bit as "Nice" as any of those 2 lines... HAL is even nicer. Carnival is in a class all it's own. They are the leader in cheap, affordable cruises, and THAT is exactly the market they chose for THAT line... Cunard blows away EVERYTHING out there in elegance, once again, owning their demographic market. HAL does quite nicely in attracting the older crowd that still has some life left in them.

 

Personally, I have sailed RCCL and never care to do it again. Those huge Mall Of The Seas ships have no interest to me whatsoever, but if that's your cup of tea, have at it...

 

Carnival will be around as long as they want to be, and will continue to dominate their desired market.

 

Carnival Cruise Lines does NOT own any other cruise line. However, Carnival Corporation & plc. is the parent company of Holland America, Princess, Cunard, Seabourn, P&O, Iberocruceros, Costa, Aida and Carnival Cruise Lines. Each subsidy operates individually with separate executive teams.

 

As far as Royal Caribbean, you've only sailed on the Majesty and Rhapsody, with one of them being a non-revenue cruise. You can't compare that to even Voyager and Freedom class. Our experience on the Majesty was completely different from the Navigator and even so from our few hours on the Oasis. I don't sail Royal Caribbean due to personal likes/dislikes, but it is well known they have some of the nicest ships.

 

You then claim that Princess, Holland America and Cunard are very nice. Without any personal experience, how can you go ahead and make this claim? Because you believed that your favorite cruise line owned them? That is the same as blasting Celebrity, who would be comparable to Princess and Holland America without any experience, simply because you didn't like Royal Caribbean International. Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines owns Royal Caribbean International, Celebrity, Azamara and Pullmanter.

 

The belief that Carnival is the cheapest cruise line is also subjective. If you spend any time searching, you will find similar pricing (or even cheaper) on Royal Caribbean, Norwegian and even Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, etc. Even Norwegian has Carnival's ever so common $109-$139 price.

 

Just curious, would you compare your sailing on the Carnival Fantasy to that of the Carnival Dream?

[cruzfitter]

It looks like your next cruise will be on AidaPrima. You better brush up on your German!:D

 

http://d1ozq1nmb5vv1n.cloudfront.net/fileadmin/user_upload/v3/Presse/PM_2013_Q4/AIDAprima_4_Elements_Lazy_River.jpg

I was primarily talking about the locally available cruise lines. If I ever get the chance to sail Aida that is the ship I'll be on. DW and I met a German air traffic controller on our Oasis cruise and still keep in touch. Might be interesting to cruise Aida with him along as a translator.

As entertaining as this whole thread is I'm more interested in why some of your comments have those great pics in the signature and some don't. Just curious. Battle on folks. :D

 

I've also wondered about this.

[TPFKAH]

As entertaining as this whole thread is I'm more interested in why some of your comments have those great pics in the signature and some don't. Just curious. Battle on folks. :D

 

I'm assuming he or she it simply removing the SHOW SIGNATURE ticker from his posted reply. In fact, I think I saw that as request somewhere here for people with extremely long signatures if they were responding multiple times. Apparently there are still some members with a 33.8 dial up modem.

[cruzfitter]

You know what was the one thing that we used the most when we sailed on the Allure? The Carousel! :o If you'd asked me before our cruise what was the one thing I was most looking forward to, the Carousel would've been dead last!

 

But were traveling with a 2 year old and we had a Boardwalk facing stateroom, so the Carousel was in our face all the time. Our son was super excited about it and would sit in our stateroom and watch that darn thing incessantly. It became a habit to ride the Carousel on our way out from our stateroom as well as on the way back! Thank goodness it was free!

 

As a general comment: All of these offerings, including the Carousel, are about one thing: CHOICES. Instead of the senseless bantering about who's better, people should instead be glad that there are CHOICES. The cruise industry would be VERY boring if my ONLY choice was Carnival, or Royal, or NCL. I'm glad that my last cruise was on Holland, the one before that was on Carnival, our next one will be on Royal, and the one after that will be on Princess. :D

 

 

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I should have stated that I myself will not use the Carousel, but I have no problem with it being there. Any attraction that is available helps with crowd dispersal.

 

Also, those cruisers that say they cruise for the ports, do you just sit in your cabin on sea days? Or would you possibly want some type of activity to entertain you? I personally can sit with my kindle and iPod in a quite spot for hours, but breaking the day up with say a run though a rope course could certainly be fun also.

[Hendricks Clan]

Carnival falling behind NCL and RCCL? LOL... How? Because they don't want to build those Mall size ships that can't dock in a lot of ports, making them unappealing? hmmm.... RCCL and NCL builds nicer ships? Why? Because they're bigger? Need you be reminded Carnival owns MANY brands in the cruise industry and NONE of them are targeted at each other's demographic market. RCCL and NCL have NOTHING that can get even close to comparing with Cunard, a Carnival owned line. Bigger and newer is not better people... its all based on each person's opinions. Princess ships are every bit as "Nice" as any of those 2 lines... HAL is even nicer. Carnival is in a class all it's own. They are the leader in cheap, affordable cruises, and THAT is exactly the market they chose for THAT line... Cunard blows away EVERYTHING out there in elegance, once again, owning their demographic market. HAL does quite nicely in attracting the older crowd that still has some life left in them.

 

Personally, I have sailed RCCL and never care to do it again. Those huge Mall Of The Seas ships have no interest to me whatsoever, but if that's your cup of tea, have at it...

 

Carnival will be around as long as they want to be, and will continue to dominate their desired market.

 

Cunard has no competition and they just blow everyone else out of the water. I'm sure Silversea and Oceania beg to differ. You mention all these Carnival Corp brands while the thread specifically has to do with Carnival Cruise Lines, which does has competition. It is a mainstream brand in DIRECT competition with NCL and RCI. When you look at what those two lines are doing, CCL is falling behind. Not sure how you can say Princess and HAL don't target each other demographic, I think they both market to the same type of cruiser. Oh BTW RCI owns upscale lines as well that compete directly with HAL and Princess. Carnival isn't the leader like you want to believe they are, the largest yes but far from the best.

[gtalum]

...CCL is falling behind. ...far from the best.

 

These are subjective opinions, of course (albeit perfectly valid ones). I'm sure you just accidentally left that out. :D

[Casco Bay Kid]

Cunard seems extremely boring to me.

 

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[gtalum]

Cunard seems extremely boring to me.

 

Agreed. Not my cup of tea, I suspect. What they do, they do to nearly universal acclaim, though.

[Hendricks Clan]

These are subjective opinions, of course (albeit perfectly valid ones). I'm sure you just accidentally left that out. :D

 

Fair point lol

[BeachChik]

Threads like this are useless...... It just becomes a "ship" measuring contest. Where you have RCI fans jump in to say how carnival sucks and RCI is so much better. Then you have Carnival loyal customers like myself who get irritated and respond. Regaurdless what anybody says it is about as long as it is broad. Those who like carnival are going to keep sailing carnival regaurdless of what new things RCI comes out with. Those who prefer RCI over Carnival will continue to sail Royal no matter what Carnival does. It is so easy to get in a shouting match on a message board thread using made up screen names over which brand is more innovative. Which i am as guilty as the next guy. Bottom line have sailed both i think they are more alike then not when it comes down to the basic services. Now NCL is a differnt story lol.

 

I just can't understand getting irritated or worked up because someone doesn't like your favorite cruise line. This isn't your family, this is a company. Who cares if someone thinks it sucks. It's like people arguing over phones and whether android or apple is better. I simply don't care. I purchased what I wanted, what you like has zero impact on my choices. Why people defend a cruise like like its their mother is beyond me.

[cruzfitter]

Carnival falling behind NCL and RCCL? LOL... How? Because they don't want to build those Mall size ships that can't dock in a lot of ports, making them unappealing? hmmm.... RCCL and NCL builds nicer ships? Why? Because they're bigger? Need you be reminded Carnival owns MANY brands in the cruise industry and NONE of them are targeted at each other's demographic market. RCCL and NCL have NOTHING that can get even close to comparing with Cunard, a Carnival owned line. Bigger and newer is not better people... its all based on each person's opinions. Princess ships are every bit as "Nice" as any of those 2 lines... HAL is even nicer. Carnival is in a class all it's own. They are the leader in cheap, affordable cruises, and THAT is exactly the market they chose for THAT line... Cunard blows away EVERYTHING out there in elegance, once again, owning their demographic market. HAL does quite nicely in attracting the older crowd that still has some life left

 

 

 

Personally, I have sailed RCCL and never care to do it again. Those huge Mall Of The Seas ships have no interest to me whatsoever, but if that's your cup of tea, have at it...

 

Carnival will be around as long as they want to be, and will continue to dominate their desired market.

 

This thread is talking about Carnival cruise line not Carnival Corp. So bring up Cunard et al. is a moot point.

 

I don't know if you noticed but RCL has plenty of ships that are not huge "mall of the seas" ships as you put it. I've been on 4 cruise lines and all of them have shops. Can someone tell me why it's wrong if they are all in a straight line on either side of a promenade as opposed to spread out over several decks or if the shopping area has twisting hallways?

 

This is also true about Carnival Corp. But Carnival cruise line dominates in only one area that I can see, which is number of passengers per year ( due to shorter cruises which allows for ships sail twice in a week). Carnival cruise line is not even CCL's leader in revenue per year. This is not a knock on Carnival cruise line. Just pointing out information.

[BeachChik]

Carnival does not have any pressure on them from anyone....

 

Carnival is doing what works for them and Carnival could care less what the other cruise lines do....especially when other cruise lines have such a horrific debt load for the number of ships they have and Carnival does not.

 

NCL was "innovative" when they put 3 ships in Hawaii and it almost bankrupted them.

 

Royal was "innovative" with those big ships, but if you are like me and do not wish to pay for things I would never use (flowriders, ice rinks, etc)... then all that innovation is a waste.

 

Do you use the kids club? Do you use the pool and hot tub? Do you go to every show? If not, then by your description they are a waste. My point being is I'm sure regardless of what line you are sailing there are services/amenities that you don't use so the argument of I don't wish to pay for things I won't use doesn't make any sense.

 

I look at more activities as a positive. The more things to do, the more dispersed the crowds will be. If there is only one activity then everyone will be at it where if there are multiple, people are spread out across the ship. Regardless of whether or not I use them that is positive in my book. Plus how is royal having the flowrider and ice rink any different them carnival having a rope course and water works area?

[BeachChik]

Please list " his lies"

 

and he is good for much more , if only you new what he did for me and my family you would cringe with embarrassment.

 

Ahhh alan the sponge i have missed reading post after post defending jh.

[Casco Bay Kid]

Funny that people complain about this thread but still read it. I think this thread is entertaining. Just look at all the posts. Someone likes it. If you don't then don't read it.

 

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[cruzfitter]

Why am I not surprised that the question of is Carnival innovating or losing an edge has turned into an echo chamber of the same people reposting that they want a cheap cruise and don't add anything.

 

Don't worry, Carnival isn't adding anything. Except Decks. And Crowds. And if that's what it takes to make the cruise fare low and make you happy, A-OK with me. But it's not innovation. I don't think there is anything wrong in stating Carnival gave up on being innovative a long time ago. They provide a certain experience for a certain price. People unwilling to see what they are missing outside of Carnival really paint themselves into a corner saying they love everything the way it is; how do you know?

 

And Carnival does not need to make monster ships or have a million pay for venues in order to innovate. That's not the only thing innovation means.

 

I know because I do sail other lines. I haven't sailed RCCL, yet, but I have sailed NCL, Princess, and Disney. Carnival is an option for us when we just want a low cost, relaxing get away. There are times we want more so we will pick a ship with more. It all depends on what we want out of that vacation. We sailed the Epic. This was a decision between Oasis and Epic since our want for that vacation was to try a newer, larger ship. We looked at the same rooms, same itinerary, same week. Epic was $1k less than Oasis. While I loved the entertainment, DH hated the size. DH thought Carnival food was better...I thought they were very similar with Carnival slightly better in the MDR and NCL better in the buffet. The kids had no interest in the rock climbing, slides, etc. and went to the teen club once. Some people just don't get into that type of stuff so they are not missing out by not going on a ship with it....most likely if they went on a ship with it on they would avoid it like my kids did. Now I'm not saying that I'm absolutely not going to try the one of the RCCL mega ships one day (or any RCCL ship)...but it has to be at a price I am willing to pay in comparrision to the other ships I am comparing it to for that vacation.

 

IMHO Carnival is fulfilling a niche that you are apparently not a part of. There is nothing wrong with that...you have other choices that will fullfull your wants and needs. What is wrong is assuming that there must be something wrong with those who are in that niche because they like what Carnival offers for the price they pay. If Carnival fullfills their wants and needs for their vacation, who are you to say they are missing out? Carnival may not be as innovative as you want and the changes they make may not appeal to you....but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there that they do appeal to. We all don't like to vacation for the same things you do. Choice is good...innovative or not.

 

I believe LMaxwell is trying to say that if all you've experienced was CCL, you have no basis to say that another cruise line couldn't better meet your vacation needs. I'm not trying to say that another cruise line will be better for anyone, but you can't possibly be sure if you have no other experience.

I have always been satisfied with dinner at Outback Steakhouse, but that doesn't mean that I couldn't be just as happy or happier with Longhorn Steakhouse or Morton's steakhouse.

[undertheradar]

Plus how is royal having the flowrider and ice rink any different them carnival having a rope course and water works area?

 

Because, Carnival has them.

[cjknox]

As entertaining as this whole thread is I'm more interested in why some of your comments have those great pics in the signature and some don't. Just curious. Battle on folks. :D

 

Mainly because my signature is so big. :rolleyes: When I comment multiple times on a single page I disable my signature on all subsequent posts so I don't take up too much space.:rolleyes: