Is Carnival Falling Behind?

[cjknox]

Thats what I've been asking, how can anyone like the Dream class but yet make crazy remarks about Oasis/Allure/Breakaway/Getaway, etc...

 

What I can't seem to understand is that if the Dream class ships are so similar to oasis/allure/breakaway/getaway, etc. that people should consider cruising them as you and others argue, then how is Carnival "falling behind" and not competitive or innovative (albeit in a different manner) with them?

[Hendricks Clan]

What I can't seem to understand is that if the Dream class ships are so similar to oasis/allure/breakaway/getaway, etc. that people should consider cruising them as you and others argue, then how is Carnival "falling behind" and not competitive or innovative (albeit in a different manner) with them?

 

Because people are saying they don't like large ships, but yet they happily sail on the largest ships in the CCL fleet and make absurd statements about long lines, and paying for a lot of extras when none of that is true about NCL and RCI without having sailed on them. NCL and RCI just make better use of space and add amenities that people can chose to enjoy or not to enjoy...as NCL says "Your free to whatever," but its there if you want to take advantage of it and CCL doesn't have many of the things offered by the other two lines. They have gone from trying to innovate, to simply trying to attract customers based on price alone which many times isn't so different from the other guys.

 

I've seen a huge degrading of the CCL product and IMHO and its simply my opinion is that in regards to onboard amenities, service, and other aspects that directly affect the passengers feeling about their cruise/line, has left them not in the same league as their competitors. I can get better entertainment, better service during dinner, and treated like a company wants my business by another line than I can on CCL. So by my viewpoint when all that is taken into consideration they have fallen behind.

[cjknox]

They have gone from trying to innovate, to simply trying to attract customers based on price alone....

 

I cannot agree with this especially with all of the product enhancements such as EoF, 2.0, and even the Sunshine overhaul. Yes price is a major lure for Carnival, but it's not the only one because their product is solid. Is it for everyone? By no means, no line is.

[TPFKAH]

I cannot agree with this especially with all of the product enhancements such as EoF, 2.0, and even the Sunshine overhaul. Yes price is a major lure for Carnival, but it's not the only one because their product is solid. Is it for everyone? By no means, no line is.

 

Not everyone believe 1.0 and 2.0 where product enhancements. For the most part, they were simply product branding, with a hit taken on entertainment.

 

1.0 is a certain niche on certain ships only. Personally, I would partake.

[navyvet8395]

I thin k at the end of the day it is all based on why you cruise. when i started cruising in 1997, lines such as premier and commodore were still in business. there ships were old and small but they had real comfortable cabins, great service and outdoor deck space everywhere...70 cruises later of which 67 have been in the caribbean, i sail to lay in the sun during the day, gamble and enjoy a show or 2 in the evening and have a large comfortable cabin to sleep and relax in .carnival delivers these important things to me better than any other line..i also have watched their food and service evolve over the last 10 years. I have been on rccl and ncl quite a few times and they have much smaller cabins and less outdoor space comparativly so i think carnival is doing fine with what they have and offer and will continue to attract folks like myself who love the things i love. i have no desire to ice skate at sea, etc.. i also like that at carnivals pricepoint i can go on 3 or 4 cruises a year and not 1 or 2..keep up the good work carnival. keep the deck space, keep the cabin size, great job with the george lopez comedy clubs and keep improving the food and service and i will be there to spend my money on your product!:cool:

 

True, I started cruising in 98 after doing 12 yrs in navy. I sailed on Premier (2 times in 6 months), CCCL (Cape Canaveral Cruise line on the Dolphin 4, also on Commodore Enchanted Isle, and other very small Italian line from Port Canaveral to which I cant remember the name. All out of business now. But I enjoyed them all due to the size. Also the NCL Norweigan Wind that I took a 17 day REPO cruise on through the Panama canal for 500.00.

 

Since then Ive been mostly on Carnival since im Platinum now. Hard to leave that perk. I do like smaller better then larger, gives you a better feeling of being on a ship and the motion, etc.

 

Was only on the RCCL Independence of Seas when it was new back in 2008. Was very impressed with the crowd control, expecially at check in. And did like the décor expecially the layout of the adult serenity area and they did police the chairs. I did Princess Grand Princess as well. and enjoyed that. Only had balcony cabins on Carnival, rest were OV or insides on the other ships.

[Aquahound]

What I can't seem to understand is that if the Dream class ships are so similar to oasis/allure/breakaway/getaway, etc. that people should consider cruising them as you and others argue, then how is Carnival "falling behind" and not competitive or innovative (albeit in a different manner) with them?

 

I never said it was. You're changing the context of what we're asking.

[Hendricks Clan]

Not everyone believe 1.0 and 2.0 where product enhancements. For the most part, they were simply product branding, with a hit taken on entertainment.

 

1.0 is a certain niche on certain ships only. Personally, I would partake.

 

Exactly, its was a branding/marketing strategy and started the slow death of good entertainment on CCL.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Hendricks Clan

[17andacruiseaddict]

To answer the OP's main question, NO Carnival is not falling behind. They are doing great according to their costumer and they are doing great at attracting new costumers.

 

OP, you already knew what kind of response you would get on a Carnival board. You know with people who love to cruise Carnival and continue to do so.

If you ask this question on the Royal board, I'm sure the masses would say something like, "of course Carnival sucks!" But MAYBE they will try to sweeten it.

I have done both so I am not as mean as some who stick to one line and think they are the best of the best because they think they are.

 

I have cruised both but like others said, I stick to Carnival for price and what I like about their ships. I prefer their Conquest Class and newer. The biggest I've done on Royal was their Freedom class which compare's more to Carnival's Dream class to me. That is a size I'm happy with. Never have been eager to try their mag-ships. I like Carnival's additions but don't care to try Royal's. All a matter of opinion.

 

But once again, you knew what you were asking for when you asked this question.

[Maraprince]

A lot of what Carnival had on their ships appear long before RCCL started to make changes along the same line.

 

For example, Explorer of the Seas did not have outdoor big movie screen, nor flat screen TVs even in some of the suites since TVs were only replaced as they went bad, nor did they have a Comedy Club or a brunch. Tastings was not on RCCL ships either. No rectractable roof.

 

Pricewise, RCCL charges way more on Explorer (which is around 15yrs. old) than the Carnival Miracle or the Splendor. Balcony cabins are smaller on Explorer as is the in-cabin storage space and the bathrooms.

 

RCCL has many more sea days on the same number of days than Carnival and seem to charge more than Carnival for less overall days or more for the same number of days. Ports tend to be more limited on RCCL and the bigger the ship, the less ports they can fit into without tendering.

 

Seas days on RCCL have many more bingo sessions than Carnival who makes better use of their indoor space with family type games and activities. Afternoon tea is very popular on Carnival.

 

Carnival is not lagging behind. Rather they are going in a different direction than RCCL because they have many more brands under their umbrella vs. RCCL and each brand has their own client niche.

 

In trying to please those who complained about formal nights, RCCL with the Quantum is introducing "dynamic dining" a la NCL "Freestyle" and then some. Only one restaurant will require formal dress every night and it is the one that serve lobster! Menus will not change daily but are one set menu per restaurant. Unless you choose to each in the 24-hour buffet, reservations must be made for all passengers if you wish to eat in one of the restaurants (free or add'l charge) for a set time. Also, reservations have to be made to see the shows. Some passengers are ending up with dining times from 9PM-11PM which is just insane! Their system has many gliches and is causing much frustration.

 

Many people do not prefer sailing with 4,000 other passengers. Bigger isn't always better.

 

MARAPRINCE

[LMaxwell]

A lot of what Carnival had on their ships appear long before RCCL started to make changes along the same line.

 

For example, Explorer of the Seas did not have outdoor big movie screen, nor flat screen TVs even in some of the suites since TVs were only replaced as they went bad, nor did they have a Comedy Club or a brunch. Tastings was not on RCCL ships either. No rectractable roof.

 

 

Royal Caribbean had projector style outdoor movie screens in the 1970's on their new builds while Carnival was rehabbing old liners.

 

 

Pricewise, RCCL charges way more on Explorer (which is around 15yrs. old) than the Carnival Miracle or the Splendor. Balcony cabins are smaller on Explorer as is the in-cabin storage space and the bathrooms.

 

RCCL has many more sea days on the same number of days than Carnival and seem to charge more than Carnival for less overall days or more for the same number of days. Ports tend to be more limited on RCCL and the bigger the ship, the less ports they can fit into without tendering.

 

 

Please tell us about Carnivals wonderful itineraries that include Canada, South America, Bermuda, Norway, Iceland, Coastal California and Asia?

 

Please then go compare price per day for similar cabins and you will find Carnival and RCI are within 10% of each other, one way or the other. What ports is RCI limited to tendering that Carnival is not? Oasis and Allure do NOT tender at ANY port by the way. I agree though, the larger the ship the more limited ports it can select from.

 

 

 

In trying to please those who complained about formal nights, RCCL with the Quantum is introducing "dynamic dining" a la NCL "Freestyle" and then some. Only one restaurant will require formal dress every night and it is the one that serve lobster! Menus will not change daily but are one set menu per restaurant. Unless you choose to each in the 24-hour buffet, reservations must be made for all passengers if you wish to eat in one of the restaurants (free or add'l charge) for a set time. Also, reservations have to be made to see the shows. Some passengers are ending up with dining times from 9PM-11PM which is just insane! Their system has many gliches and is causing much frustration.

 

 

 

The system is a new roll out and COULD work better, but that will get sorted out. You do NOT need reservations for dining and entertainment. They are optional and to facilitate flow and often why you encounter NO lines on Royal Carribean ships. You can step onboard with ZERO reservations and you will still eat and see shows. So you're flat wrong there.

 

 

Many people do not prefer sailing with 4,000 other passengers. Bigger isn't always better.

 

 

Fair observation.

[Maraprince]

royal caribbean had projector style outdoor movie screens in the 1970's on their new builds while carnival was rehabbing old liners.

 

i was specifically referring to the explorer whose pricing is higher than carnival out of ny with either the splendor this year or the miracle in the past year. I am diamond on rccl and have sailed with them enough to make a geniune comparison between them and princess, carnival, celebrity, holland american and cunard regarding similar size ships.

 

please tell us about carnivals wonderful itineraries that include canada, south america, bermuda, norway, iceland, coastal california and asia?

 

i am going to canada on carnival in september. How about rccl bringing quantum out to the ny/nj market only to announce they are home porting the ship to singapore in 6 mos. Time? Crazy!

 

please then go compare price per day for similar cabins and you will find carnival and rci are within 10% of each other, one way or the other. What ports is rci limited to tendering that carnival is not? Oasis and allure do not tender at any port by the way. I agree though, the larger the ship the more limited ports it can select from.

 

explorer was priced at $3,000.00 for an 11-day caribbean sailing for a balcony cabin. Out of the 11 days, there was almost 6 sea days; just about the time it takes to go transatlantic. It is an older ship. For that price you could be on cunard with a higher level of on board service. if you do not care about the ports, book the quantum, oasis or the allure and be limited as to the ports where the ship can fit.

the system is a new roll out and could work better, but that will get sorted out. You do not need reservations for dining and entertainment. They are optional and to facilitate flow and often why you encounter no lines on royal carribean ships. You can step onboard with zero reservations and you will still eat and see shows. So you're flat wrong there.

 

quantum is the ship i am referring to. We canceled our 12/1 due a date conflict at home. Read the comments being posted regarding dining and show reservations. If you do not book prior to sailing, you will take your chances to get seated for dinner. The choices being offered to some passengers are between 9-11pm and do not coordinate with the show times. This is why the buffet is now open 24 hours for those who wish to show up for dinner without the hassle of waiting to be seated and not just accepting what dining times are open.

 

fair observation.

 

 

maraprince

Edited May 16, 2014 by Maraprince

[LMaxwell]

With regards to Royal Caribbean dinner reservations, less than half available time slots are made available for reservation. This allows for reservations on board or walk up to be accomodated. If you INSIST on a reservation you can have one from the available slots.

 

Yes, I have read of some trouble with the system, but until it is fully rolled out on Quantum we will all have to wait and see if it works.

[17andacruiseaddict]

The reason why this thread is some what annoying is because of post like the LMaxaxwell one above this comment.

 

It because a my favorable cruise line is better than your favorable cruise line" argument. This thread was petty from the beginning.

 

I'm shock the hosts didn't either:

A. Move this thread to Royal and other boards seeing as how it pertains to them as well.

B. Got rid of it all together because it is petty and grown people become really bratty.

 

And yes I'm being a hypocritical brat right now because the hosts always tend to do that to me. They keep moving my threads to the Floataway Lounge when I clearly posted it where I posted it for a reason and the post gets good replies where it was. Even if it doesn't have the word Carnival in the title or the name of a Carnival ship. I wanted Carnival cruisers feedback. I think the host have something against me. (Not serious and a little serious about that lol)

 

 

Sorry I just went on a random rant venting a little. (They will probably move or delete this comment as well haha)

Edited May 16, 2014 by 17andacruiseaddict

[S.S.Oceanlover]

A lot of what Carnival had on their ships appear long before RCCL started to make changes along the same line.

 

For example, Explorer of the Seas did not have outdoor big movie screen, nor flat screen TVs even in some of the suites since TVs were only replaced as they went bad, nor did they have a Comedy Club or a brunch. Tastings was not on RCCL ships either. No rectractable roof.

 

Pricewise, RCCL charges way more on Explorer (which is around 15yrs. old) than the Carnival Miracle or the Splendor. Balcony cabins are smaller on Explorer as is the in-cabin storage space and the bathrooms.

 

I picked a random date to do a price comparison which was june 4 2015 from NY on RCI which will now have the Liberty of the Seas there which is only 7 years old and compared to the Splendor which doesn't leave until June 9th.

 

The Liberty is a 9 day cruise and the Liberty is an 8 day cruise.

 

The Libertys prices are $944 IS,$104 per day, $1214 OV, $134 per day. and $1520 $168 per day for a balcony.

 

Splendors prices are $869 IS, $108 per day, $949 OV, $118 per day, and $1149, $143 per day for a balcony.

 

 

The Splendors prices are the cheapest ES prices and the RCI prices are the cheapest in each category.

 

Certainly not double or close to double on every cruise.

 

RCCL has many more sea days on the same number of days than Carnival and seem to charge more than Carnival for less overall days or more for the same number of days. Ports tend to be more limited on RCCL and the bigger the ship, the less ports they can fit into without tendering.

 

Seas days on RCCL have many more bingo sessions than Carnival who makes better use of their indoor space with family type games and activities. Afternoon tea is very popular on Carnival.

 

Carnival is not lagging behind. Rather they are going in a different direction than RCCL because they have many more brands under their umbrella vs. RCCL and each brand has their own client niche.

 

In trying to please those who complained about formal nights, RCCL with the Quantum is introducing "dynamic dining" a la NCL "Freestyle" and then some. Only one restaurant will require formal dress every night and it is the one that serve lobster! Menus will not change daily but are one set menu per restaurant. Unless you choose to each in the 24-hour buffet, reservations must be made for all passengers if you wish to eat in one of the restaurants (free or add'l charge) for a set time. Also, reservations have to be made to see the shows. Some passengers are ending up with dining times from 9PM-11PM which is just insane! Their system has many gliches and is causing much frustration.

 

Many people do not prefer sailing with 4,000 other passengers. Bigger isn't always better.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

Bill

Edited May 16, 2014 by S.S.Oceanlover

[JustMeandTheSea]

Just to sum up some point that were brought up in this thread.

 

Is Carnival falling behind? No

Are they innovative? Yes

Is a free burger at Guys better than a for fee one at Johnny Rockets? Yes

Is Carnival's entertainment a step down? Now, yes. However, they are making great strides to this by significantly improving Playlist Productions (the newest shows are incredible) and modifying the role of the CD. Carnival WILL have the best entertainment within 2 years. Guaranteed.

 

Carnival will always be the world's most popular cruise line. We are family, a Carnival Family!

[LMaxwell]

Carnival WILL have the best entertainment within 2 years. Guaranteed.

 

That would be lovely. MSC Divina sailing from Miami has been leaving people jaw dropped with their production shows. NCL and RCI both have wonderful shows and entertainment. The competition is not letting up on the gas. Let's see if Carnival is ready to spend the $$$ and bring the entertainment back.

[Hendricks Clan]

 

In trying to please those who complained about formal nights, RCCL with the Quantum is introducing "dynamic dining" a la NCL "Freestyle" and then some. Only one restaurant will require formal dress every night and it is the one that serve lobster! Menus will not change daily but are one set menu per restaurant. Unless you choose to each in the 24-hour buffet, reservations must be made for all passengers if you wish to eat in one of the restaurants (free or add'l charge) for a set time. Also, reservations have to be made to see the shows. Some passengers are ending up with dining times from 9PM-11PM which is just insane! Their system has many gliches and is causing much frustration.

 

Many people do not prefer sailing with 4,000 other passengers. Bigger isn't always better.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

In regards to Quantum maybe your right, but in regards to "Freestyle," on NCL the above state is most def false. The MDR menus change every night on NCL, one does not have to make a reservation, and one does not have to make a reservation to see a show.

[Hendricks Clan]

Just to sum up some point that were brought up in this thread.

 

Is Carnival falling behind? No

Are they innovative? Yes

Is a free burger at Guys better than a for fee one at Johnny Rockets? Yes

Is Carnival's entertainment a step down? Now, yes. However, they are making great strides to this by significantly improving Playlist Productions (the newest shows are incredible) and modifying the role of the CD. Carnival WILL have the best entertainment within 2 years. Guaranteed.

 

Carnival will always be the world's most popular cruise line. We are family, a Carnival Family!

 

RCI offers free burgers just like NCL...acting like CCL is the only line you get a free burger on is ridiculous.

 

Carnival is the worlds most popular cruise line based on their fleet size and the number of ships sailing shorter cruises. However in the next 5 yrs, RCI will surpass them in fleet size and due to the fact their ships are larger, it would not surprise if they surpass CCL in the number of passengers carried once all their new builds come online.

 

Carnival isn't going to be bringing entertainment up like you think they are. They will roll out more Carnival Live productions (where they can charge passengers), and continue to develop Hasbro (where the guest provide the majority of the entertainment). Thats how its going to be as they have spent to much money on those things to invest in other entertainment options. If Im not mistaken their playlist productions has cut the full show bank out...not sure how you can call that an improvement...

Edited May 16, 2014 by Hendricks Clan

[EZ4]

Just to sum up some point that were brought up in this thread.

 

Is Carnival falling behind? No

Are they innovative? Yes

Is a free burger at Guys better than a for fee one at Johnny Rockets? Yes

Is Carnival's entertainment a step down? Now, yes. However, they are making great strides to this by significantly improving Playlist Productions (the newest shows are incredible) and modifying the role of the CD. Carnival WILL have the best entertainment within 2 years. Guaranteed.

 

Carnival will always be the world's most popular cruise line. We are family, a Carnival Family!

 

Did you hear what they're doing to the Fantasy? It will be split down the middle and 100' added to the width. 7 decks will be added. There will be an exterior tram on each side of the ship that you can ride and it will make stops right at your cabin where you can get on and off. It will have a 1/4 mile high banked oval Segway racing track and in the infield there will be a road coarse for scooters. But the best part; it will have the worlds biggest Guy's Burger stand in the known world!!

[JustMeandTheSea]

RCI offers free burgers just like NCL...acting like CCL is the only line you get a free burger on is ridiculous.

 

Carnival is the worlds most popular cruise line based on their fleet size and the number of ships sailing shorter cruises. However in the next 5 yrs, RCI will surpass them in fleet size and due to the fact their ships are larger, it would not surprise if they surpass CCL in the number of passengers carried once all their new builds come online.

 

Carnival isn't going to be bringing entertainment up like you think they are. They will roll out more Carnival Live productions (where they can charge passengers), and continue to develop Hasbro (where the guest provide the majority of the entertainment). Thats how its going to be as they have spent to much money on those things to invest in other entertainment options. If Im not mistaken their playlist productions has cut the full show bank out...not sure how you can call that an improvement...

 

1. It's as simple as you think... Guy's Burger-Free Johnny Rockets-$$$

2. While RC may take over in capacity, take a look at the debt they will have.

3. Apparently, you have not seen the newest playlist productions shows, beiginning with Studio VIP, and Epic Rock. These shows are incredible and put a new and exciting twist on evening shows. Much more so than boring Broadway shows. But hey, that's just me

[JustMeandTheSea]

Did you hear what they're doing to the Fantasy? It will be split down the middle and 100' added to the width. 7 decks will be added. There will be an exterior tram on each side of the ship that you can ride and it will make stops right at your cabin where you can get on and off. It will have a 1/4 mile high banked oval Segway racing track and in the infield there will be a road coarse for scooters. But the best part; it will have the worlds biggest Guy's Burger stand in the known world!!

 

What are you talking about? THat is not accurate

[LMaxwell]

What are you talking about? THat is not accurate

 

Sounds as plausible as believing a Guarantee from a Carnival employee on Cruise Critic that they will have the best entertainment in 2 years.

[Aquahound]

Carnival WILL have the best entertainment within 2 years. Guaranteed!

 

Impossible. Can we please talk reality for just a second? There is no way possible an entire cruise line can go from mediocre to the best in 2 years. Narrow it down to a specific ship, like Vista, and it could be possible.....that is if Vista would be out within 2 years....but it's not. But Carnival as a whole? Not possible.

 

Look at RCI and NCL who contracted with Broadway and other productions to put their shows on board, along with the ice rinks, Illusionarium, Aqua Theater, Two70, etc. Ships need to be designed and these venues and stages built to accommodate. They've been at this level for years, and only a few ships of each line have this level of quality.

 

For the sake of Carnival, I hope they do step up and start adding this level of entertainment. But to say right now they will be the best in 2 years is delusional.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Aquahound

[S.S.Oceanlover]

What are you talking about? THat is not accurate

 

It is most certainly accurate CB319.

 

EZ4's pvp told him.;)

 

Bill

[cjknox]

 

...in the next 5 yrs, RCI will surpass them in fleet size and due to the fact their ships are larger, it would not surprise if they surpass CCL in the number of passengers carried once all their new builds come online.

 

 

This statement is technically true, and may be true if Carnival Corp. doesn't order any ships for the Carnival brand in the next five years which is highly unlikely. The most probable outcome will be that between late 2014 and mid 2015 Carnival will announce orders for Vista II & III and by that time Vista I will be fully underway (to be complete in Jan/Feb 2016). If new orders are made in that specific time frame they could be completed well before 2018 seeing as Fincantieri only has one ship on the books after 2016. Also, keep in mind it will probably be around 2021-22 before RCCL orders another ship for RCI.