What does the future hold for Azamara

[geocruiser]

I don't think anyone said it was a smart idea. Just someone saying they heard it was being done, and others mentioning ships that were or are for Sale.

 

You are right.

[Andy]

Andy, I think the key to Azamara's acquisition of a ship if there is going to be one is that I can't be the size of Century. She doesn't fit the Azamara model. It needs to be of Journey or Quest size or near enough, both of which can get into places the larger ones can't. This is part of the attraction of Azamara, evidenced on the North Cape cruise I went on in June where we spent a lot of the trip on the inside passage of the Norwegian Fjords. Even HAL's smaller Ryndam that ported with us in a couple of places had to go out to sea because she couldn't pass under the numerous bridges and power cables as we could. We also entered Gudvangen Fjord, once again too small for the larger ships. Made for a very enjoyable experience (and it wasn't as rough either!).

 

Phil

 

Hi Phil,

 

I agree with your points. My logic was... if Azamara isn't getting a new ship, and if they had to choose from a ship from RCCL or Celebrity, I thought Century could be a stopgap for 1-3 years - but only if Azamara plans to go heavier into charter business. My thinking was along the lines of something is better than nothing... but I agree that in general terms, a 70,000 ton ship does not fit Azamara's profile. Doesn't matter at this point, as Century is spoken for.

 

Interesting that just a few weeks ago, we were wondering about newbuilds. Then comes a disappointing announcement on LCV changes, and folks are now discussing the future of the brand. What an amazing turn of events. I hope that Azamara finds a way to rectify the situation.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Host Andy

[Redtravel]

Andy: Azamara has a plan. Obviously they don't seem to care about what any of the cruise critic posters think. You try to get them to listen. I thank you for your efforts. It doesn't seem to work. With all the competition for filling berths, the only thing that amazes me is how Azamara keeps changing itself. Most lines change to attract new cruisers and rebook repeat cruisers. They add features, improve offerings, refurbish, redecorate, and entice people to choose their line over other lines. They have gracious customer service that is easily available, helpful, and extremely polite. Up until recently, I would include Azamara in the group above. Now I am not so sure that Azamara fits that description. Everything that they have done recently points in the opposite direction. After my most recent cruise on the Journey, my husband said that the value isn't there anymore. Other lines look more attractive. Time will tell whether Azamara survives with all the recent changes. Competition is stiff in the cruise business. Thanks again for representing cruise critics.

[Reggiefan]

Interesting discussion. And the last post by Redtravel uses the key word--"value".

 

The service on the Azamara ships is very high. But I would suggest that a major reason that many consider Azamara is the appeal of its itineraries--different ports, more time in port, some overnights. Frankly, if we are talking about Azamara and its competitors offering for the most part identical itineraries, Azamara at its current pricing probably cannot compete. Interaction with the ship's captain and hotel manager, small ship size and a country club apparel dress code are not enough. But so long as Azamara can offer itineraries somewhat different from those its competitors, it can occupy a small niche in the marketplace.

 

The problem is pricing level. Even for those who embrace the "destination immersion" concept, Azamara can charge only so much given the state of its two ships and the amenities they offer.

[mare s.]

Interesting discussion. And the last post by Redtravel uses the key word--"value".

 

The service on the Azamara ships is very high. But I would suggest that a major reason that many consider Azamara is the appeal of its itineraries--different ports, more time in port, some overnights. Frankly, if we are talking about Azamara and its competitors offering for the most part identical itineraries, Azamara at its current pricing probably cannot compete. Interaction with the ship's captain and hotel manager, small ship size and a country club apparel dress code are not enough. But so long as Azamara can offer itineraries somewhat different from those its competitors, it can occupy a small niche in the marketplace.

 

The problem is pricing level. Even for those who embrace the "destination immersion" concept, Azamara can charge only so much given the state of its two ships and the amenities they offer.

 

Precisely! I know I'm repeating myself, but we did look at other cruiselines for next year and Azamara's itinerary was unique. We love the service on board, etc. but that is not the prime motivator for us. However, if the on board experience deteriorates further (and I'm talking about the removal of the harpist, addition of the art auctions, and now the LCV changes) prices continue to go up, and itineraries remain basically the same, we will move on to other options.

[cruzluvers]

For acknowledging that the LCV redesign as revealed last week may be up for some reconsideration... My initial reactions as to how the changes impact me personally were quickly replaced by personal curiosity as to why Azamara chose to take the drastic actions they did and couldn't help but induce some speculation surrounding the very unusual Corporate behavior...

 

My only hope is that Azamara is mindful that time is of the essence in terms of any fine-tuning that might occur with respect to LCV given that the new program is to take effect 1 January 2015... At the present time, the only "improved" loyalty benefit I accrued for having sailed Azamara--and it was otherwise a wonderful experience--for 28 days during 2014 [which would have been 42 days had Journey not unfortunately become disabled in Tokyo] is a net reduction in my Cruise Point accrual--despite having attained Discover + membership at the time of sailing--for the pleasure! Azamara credits 3 Points per day for a balcony cabin during 2014; that will increase to 5 per day--as it always should have been on a comparative basis to Celebrity's accrual rates for equivalent or lesser spend [the subject was discussed at length here early this year; it seems that Azamara listened but not quickly/not before it adversely affected some without intent--it's already covered in the revised program's Terms & Conditions--to remediate]... Sounds trivial--perhaps it is--but I've long understood that those 56 Cruise Points further delayed and added expense to my journey toward reaching Zenith level on Celebrity and Discoverer Platinum level on Azamara! Last week's "big reveal" merely reminded me of that fact...

 

Thanks, once again, for your advocacy in bringing our observations forward for a hearing... I'm truly sorry that Azamara has placed you in so unenviable a position but am hard-pressed as to how they might have anticipated a different reaction from those with an Azamara/Celebrity track record...

 

Do know that, regardless of how this plays out from a personal perspective [business is--mutually--business; we all view such things differently], I root for the robust future of Azamara, its exceptional onboard Team of Officers and crew, and its very allegiant following... No threats/no promises; I hope to have reason to be among them...

 

Well said Mike, Our feelings exactly. Hopefully all will work out :)

[Jade13]

Azamara credits 3 Points per day for a balcony cabin during 2014; that will increase to 5 per day--as it always should have been on a comparative basis to Celebrity's accrual rates for equivalent or lesser spend [the subject was discussed at length here early this year; ..

 

That is one of the few positive changes, and one I brought up earlier. Of course it only affects certain people in certain stateroom categories.

 

I also brought this up on the Celebrity board regarding Xpedition, and now OV's have more points in recognition of the higher spend in Galapagos.

 

I still think Xpedition should be transitioned to Azamara, as that makes more sense as a smaller ship offering destination immersion.

[Jade13]

But so long as Azamara can offer itineraries somewhat different from those its competitors, it can occupy a small niche in the marketplace.

 

I agree, but I also think that is one of their problems. I do not think they offer a lot of unique itineraries (or maybe I have just traveled too much). Yes, they offer cruises to/from Dubai through India (Have done one), and will be going to Australia and New Zealand, but so does Celebrity and HAL (and we just traveled there on Celebrity). Most of their cruises have been in Europe, and it is just not unique enough for us at the higher price point, but guess that is what customers want.

[Reggiefan]

Europe is the focus of most Azamara's itineraries, but the destination immersion concept with longer stays in port and overnights is perfect for European itineraries. On cruises with a number of sea days and less time in port where the ship is something of a destination, Azamara is at a disadvantage. Also, with only two small ships and the recent emphasis on charters, Azamara has only so many cruises open to the general public.

 

I probably do not speak for the majority on these forums, but because we still cruise infrequently because of work obligations and our interests, we favor European itineraries. At this stage in my life, I am not interested in a cruise in the Caribbean (which I have visited on a sailboat), or to South America or Canada (which I have visited and can drive through) or Asia, either because I cannot take off more than two weeks or relative lack of interest (though one day I would love to make an Australia-New Zealand cruise). As a result, I base my cruise decisions on itinerary, and I look at European itineraries.

 

I have been on both an Azamara cruise and an Oceania cruise, and the Azamara itinerary just allowed for more time in port and for that reason did a better job of meeting our needs. Now, if I were on a cruise where more time would be spent at sea, I would prefer the Oceania Marina (with its excellent restaurant options) or other ships over the Journey.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Reggiefan

[AJCM]

Our preference is Azamara. We're comfortable with and enjoy the company of most people we meet and we prefer this size of ship for social, river access, tender/shuttle reasons. We've recently concluded our 5th cruise in 3 years and would undoubtedly continue into the future. However, the LCV changes mean we now get no benefit (the real benefit to us has been laundry and Internet). The recent price increases, to take account of included drinks and Azamazing evenings has taken Azamara's price much closer to luxury lines such as Silversea.

 

Given that Azamara's balcony cabins are of modest size, with ordinary television/movie access (important when you're wide awake at 3.00am); on our recent B2B Journey cruises the air con barely worked; the 2 Azamazing evenings were more ok than amazing (to us) and so are of questionable value to us in future; the included "free" alcohol was limited and thus stingy; then it is likely that we'll more seriously look at Silvsesea, Seabourn and Crystal in future. We recently did a 7 day Silversea cruise and while we still prefer Azamara, we were in a very comfortable suite, rather than cabin, we never waited for anything (table, tender, shuttle); we met some similarly nice fellow passengers; the smallish ship has similar access to Azamara's; the food was at least as good and probably better; and the only explicit win by Azamara was the entertainment. The price difference used to be significant, in Azamara's favour. Now it is not significant.

 

This is my biggest concern - that by spending a bit more per day (not much difference between $800 and $1000 per couple per day) then sufficient people turn away from Azamara to these other lines.

 

I feel the Azamara golden era is over - clear price point between Celebrity and luxury lines; 50% discount on excursions; wine/beer/water included (booze extra). Perhaps they couldn't make the economics work at that time. However, we would always prefer a suite over a basic cabin and as we don't want to ever go back to 2000 and above ships, we'll now see the luxury lines as a cost alternative to Azamara.

 

I'd like to think we'll return to Azamara, as we've thoroughly enjoyed all 5 cruises (even the apparently notorious 20 Aug 2014 cruise) - but then we're confident we'll readily enjoyable any cruise (after all we did enjoy and survive a Costa cruise a few years ago). So, work it out Azamara - we all love you but our heads can be turned.g

[kiawahdon]

From Cruise Industry News today- another $ 1 billion of RCL capital that will not be spent upgrading AZ or adding ships.

 

 

"TUI Cruises has ordered Mein Schiff 7 and Mein Schiff 8, for deliveries from STX Finland in 2018 and 2019 as Meyer Werft and STX Finland announced they had closed their deal for Meyer to acquire a majority stake in the Finnish yard."

[coyboy1971]

Will be curious to see how NCL's acquisition of Oceana and Regent will change this segment... Can my favorite two ship line compete and differentiate itself? I hope so.

 

 

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[ellbon]

Will be curious to see how NCL's acquisition of Oceana and Regent will change this segment... Can my favorite two ship line compete and differentiate itself? I hope so.

 

 

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when Carnival brought up Princess it changed. Others have too..i tried both thsoe small lines and was not in love. hard being alone on Regent.

[marinaro44]

when Carnival brought up Princess it changed. Others have too..i tried both thsoe small lines and was not in love. hard being alone on Regent.

No interest in Oceania and our Regent b2b was meh. No real warmth on ship. Senior officers invisible. Cruise director uninvolved with passengers. Nice ship, good food, professional service, etc., but no feeling of personal interest or attention. Trying Regent again in November because of Amazon itinerary. Maybe it will be different.

[tonyd285]

I have given this a lot of thought lately, especially as I prepare to leave for Rome and cruise on the Journey next week. I believe that Azamara's days are numbered. It seems that RCCL has lost interest in this small, two vessel, upscale line. Had they refurbished Mercury and turned that ship over to Azamara It would be safe to assume that this is an ongoing venture. The fact that this did not happen and no new ships are planned, along with the changes in the loyalty program, leads me to assume that within the next year or two Azamara will cease to exist.

[need2cruisesoon]

"As an aside, we have hit record high load factors, record revenues and best bottom line results in the brands history." Larry Pimental

 

With such good news financially where are the new ship builds?

Edited September 20, 2014 by need2cruisesoon

[marinaro44]

I have given this a lot of thought lately, especially as I prepare to leave for Rome and cruise on the Journey next week. I believe that Azamara's days are numbered. It seems that RCCL has lost interest in this small, two vessel, upscale line. Had they refurbished Mercury and turned that ship over to Azamara It would be safe to assume that this is an ongoing venture. The fact that this did not happen and no new ships are planned, along with the changes in the loyalty program, leads me to assume that within the next year or two Azamara will cease to exist.

Here's one vote that Azamara NEVER build or buy a ship the size of Mercury/Galaxy (in very poor condition, by the way, when we cruised her)/Century. That, not loss of a bag of laundry, will drive me away.

[geocruiser]

"As an aside, we have hit record high load factors, record revenues and best bottom line results in the brands history." Larry Pimental

 

With such good news financially where are the new ship builds?

 

Or the remodeling.

[CRUISERTN]

I agree with Tonyd that Azamara's days are numbered.....so unfortunate.

 

We tried Oceania and enjoyed the service, food, and very unique itinerary, but the atmosphere was much more stuffy than Azamara, and no visibility of senior staff and no "warm and fuzzy feelings" that make Azamara so special. We actually found the food and service to be superior to our most recent Azamara cruise a few months ago. We thought we had found "our" line with Azamara and now we are not so sure and thought we would look again at Oceania, only for them to recently announce they have been bought by NCL....talk about a shock...sort of like Kia buying Rolls Royce:eek: It certainly looks like RCL could care less about the two Azamara ships and is only concerned about their 6,000 passenger floating cities and building them larger and larger. No, thank you.....so sad to think, but maybe NCL will end up with the two Azamara ships also.... :eek:

[CTLeeA]

Azamara used to be great. We loved our first AZ cruise. We signed up and sent a deposit for a second, and then AZ decided to discontinue it's Early Booking 50% Shore Excursion Discount which would have saved us thousands. Their explanation was, "things change, read the contract." Now they're eliminating a host of other amenities. frankly, I no longer trust AZ to deliver what it promises...because...in their own words, "things change"...unfortunately, not for better....they have driven away many of us formally loyal past passengers with their arrogance.

Edited September 21, 2014 by CTLeeA

[Andy]

I have given this a lot of thought lately, especially as I prepare to leave for Rome and cruise on the Journey next week. I believe that Azamara's days are numbered. It seems that RCCL has lost interest in this small, two vessel, upscale line. Had they refurbished Mercury and turned that ship over to Azamara It would be safe to assume that this is an ongoing venture. The fact that this did not happen and no new ships are planned, along with the changes in the loyalty program, leads me to assume that within the next year or two Azamara will cease to exist.

 

Hi Tony,

 

I think you meant Century, as she was the Celebrity ship that was just announced to be moving to Ctrip. Mercury was transferred elsewhere, several years ago.

 

While I may be the only optimist left standing... I remain hopeful that Azamara has a bright future ahead. Though I must admit that assuming everything is going so well, as Larry Pimentel has stated, you would think a newbuild or two would be on order by now. Who knows ? there's a ton of red tape involved, and negotiations take time. Let's hope it's in the works. Frankly, I'd be happy to hear if there were plans to revitalize Journey and Quest, and I'm not talking two weeks in Drydock, where they replace soft goods etc. A major revamp for both ships, is long overdue. There's just so much going on in this space - and Azamara must upgrade, and hopefully build, to compete effectively and prosper !

 

IMO, it's tough to figure out where Azamara fits in, in RCCL's overall plans... as they seem to be fixated on the Royal Caribbean brand, and massively larger ships. From a business standpoint, it makes sense, as the bigger they build, the more profits they realize. With that said, I absolutely believe there's a strong market for ships of Azamara's size, and perhaps a bit larger - as many cruisers do not care to sail on 200,000 ton behemoths. Additionally, Azamara's officers and crew are outstanding. They make the brand, and the cruise experience something very special. I truly hope that RCCL recognizes the gem they have in Azamara, and allows them to order those dam ships already... and I'm not talking about Holland America :)

 

At any rate, the events of the past several weeks have (unfortunately) created a very negative vibe. Let's hope it proves to be overblown. I remain positive that Larry Pimentel and his team will make things right, and get the ship back on course. Will I be proven right ? Stay tuned.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Host Andy

[Andy]

BTW, Tony... Have a wonderful time on Journey !

[sheeng]

"As an aside, we have hit record high load factors, record revenues and best bottom line results in the brands history." Larry Pimental

 

With such good news financially where are the new ship builds?

 

 

With such good news financially why are you cutting back on our benefits???

Do you need to improve your bottom line?

[kiawahdon]

I challenge Host Andy or anyone else to name 1 cruise line that has taken weeks off the plate and chartered their ships. The only reason management does this is that cash flow is weak and the future uncertain. It is heads on beds but doesn't really improve the bottom line. You do not build brand loyalty by taking weeks off the cruise calendar. All this does, as has been expressed, is alienate potential passengers. In my humble opinion, when Larry lays awake at night, he knows what the future holds- and it isn't great.

[marinaro44]

I challenge Host Andy or anyone else to name 1 cruise line that has taken weeks off the plate and chartered their ships. The only reason management does this is that cash flow is weak and the future uncertain. It is heads on beds but doesn't really improve the bottom line. You do not build brand loyalty by taking weeks off the cruise calendar. All this does, as has been expressed, is alienate potential passengers. In my humble opinion, when Larry lays awake at night, he knows what the future holds- and it isn't great.

I challenge kiawahdon to provide real numbers to support his assertion that Azamara's "cash flow is weak" and that chartering their ships "doesn't really improve the bottom line." I'm really quite tired of his incessant uninformed, unfounded, gloom-and-doom opinions. Without substantiating numbers, his opinions are just so much hot air.