What does the future hold for Azamara

[kiawahdon]

Hello Xport (post #114), et.al. ~ you (all of you!) continue to impress me with the thought you put into your responses.

I remain 100% confident in the future of Azamara Club Cruises and our dedication to our customers, ships and employees ashore and at sea.

As for yours, and the multitude of other criticisms of the new LCV program, there will no doubt be some fine-tuning to the program in the months to come. You can rest assured your comments are not falling on deaf ears.

Bonnie[/quote

 

I am sorry but "fine tuning" is a world class understatement. Let's face it, the changes were ill thought-out and conceived. It is clear the corporate dictate of "cut costs or disappear " is in play.

[BBMacLaird]

I am sorry but "fine tuning" is a world class understatement. Let's face it, the changes were ill thought-out and conceived. It is clear the corporate dictate of "cut costs or disappear " is in play.

 

Hi Kiawahdon, I'm not going to argue over semantics with you; I know you and other loyal Club Members are angry. I've been reading the boards along with everyone else.

 

But I do want to clear up the falsehood that there was a corporate dictate to 'cut costs or disappear'...simply not true. There are plenty of variables at play that are not based on costs, including but not limited to demand (usage of services) and supply (capacity to serve). And even though many do not believe the new benefits are on par with the free things, they (complimentary nights and category upgrades) do represent a cost on future revenues, much more than the cost of freebies.

[ellbon]

I am sorry but "fine tuning" is a world class understatement. Let's face it, the changes were ill thought-out and conceived. It is clear the corporate dictate of "cut costs or disappear " is in play.

 

Hi Kiawahdon, I'm not going to argue over semantics with you; I know you and other loyal Club Members are angry. I've been reading the boards along with everyone else.

 

But I do want to clear up the falsehood that there was a corporate dictate to 'cut costs or disappear'...simply not true. There are plenty of variables at play that are not based on costs, including but not limited to demand (usage of services) and supply (capacity to serve). And even though many do not believe the new benefits are on par with the free things, they (complimentary nights and category upgrades) do represent a cost on future revenues, much more than the cost of freebies.

 

this is coming from someone who has done 23 cruises -always in a club suite.. this is wrong! we all left Celebrity for here or flip back and forth.. Going from free laundery and free internet -which i feel we pay for in the long run is wrong. celebrity has given me that for years.. i know one couple who only takes and aft suite- they like me stay on weeks. many of us do.. we need laundry and internet.. for me laundry really inportant.. since half the time internet does not work i guess no one one will find me unless i am drinking in a free wifi bar.. not paid for internet in over 10 years not starting now. laundry -fix it now MIA. oh as far as upgrades where would i go> as far as free nights only have 700 or so points left to the top.. so fix that too.

[nonrev1]

I truly do not want to be argumentative but......we will never be able to earn free nights in our lifetime and the category upgrade is simply unbooked inventory that you will upsell if not filled close to departure. Given the T's and C's, I am guessing these new benefits will not have a big impact on revenues. Keep the freebies! They were earned by being loyal.

[BBMacLaird]

All comments are welcome & duly noted.

 

p.s. to Robin, I was sorry to not meet you on the British Isles cruise. I looked for you...and asked who "Robin" was. No luck. You're now very mysterious to me ;)

 

[ellbon]

All comments are welcome & duly noted.

 

p.s. to Robin, I was sorry to not meet you on the British Isles cruise. I looked for you...and asked who "Robin" was. No luck. You're now very mysterious to me ;)

 

 

did you call my cabin. the two sea days i was in it reading more than other places. also i was in the bar listening to nathan several nights or in Looking Glass. All the bartenders knew if i was in the room or not.. blonde long hair-dresses most nights and always with a bottle of water around. also was in prime C about 6 nights that cruise.. no wonder I want a new menu this winter. You do realize i am not upset with you but what larry or RC I is doing to us.. I spent 14 hours off the ship in Liverpool and about 9 in Dublin and 10 hours i think in darthmouth off the ship.. no wonder you could not find me.. other ports just popped on/off.. we both could of call each other.. the front desk knows my cabin and the other way around.

[BBMacLaird]

did you call my cabin. the two sea days i was in it reading more than other places. also i was in the bar listening to nathan several nights or in Looking Glass. All the bartenders knew if i was in the room or not.. blonde long hair-dresses most nights and always with a bottle of water around. also was in prime C about 6 nights that cruise.. no wonder I want a new menu this winter. You do realize i am not upset with you but what larry or RC I is doing to us.. I spent 14 hours off the ship in Liverpool and about 9 in Dublin and 10 hours i think in darthmouth off the ship.. no wonder you could not find me.. other ports just popped on/off.. we both could of call each other.. the front desk knows my cabin and the other way around.

Hi Robin, I can see you're a better detective than I! All I knew was your first name, and that you are blonde, a club member and a CC poster.

[ellbon]

Hi Robin, I can see you're a better detective than I! All I knew was your first name, and that you are blonde, a club member and a CC poster.

 

cindy, front desk etc would of found me and the HD knew me too.. i do not post my last name here but yet i done email to set up tours.. i should of had the front desk call ypur room .but both sea days i stayed mid ship.. first sea dayi ithnk i had lunch in cabin. .by dinner i was fine and in Prime C.

 

have to be a detective to find good private tours.. and people. just saw fun pictures of Johannes and Eric on facebook.

[Spursgirl]

Glad to see your numbers are so strong Bonnie, I take it that RCCL and Azamrara with now be able to confirm that a realistic investment in the ships and infrastructure will be forthcoming? If you are planning to charge all passengers for internet access, I would assume you would agree that it would be prudent to upgrade and improve the service you are charging for?

 

I would also welcome confirmation that RCCL is going to invest some of its hard earned profits in an improvement in the IT interface with its guests, principally the extremely inefficient and poorly managed website and its various interfaces?

 

I will truly believe in a strong rosy future for Azamara when I see some real investment in improving the shore-based customer service provisions. Today we had the good fortune to have an interraction with several officers from the ships on a totally unrelated issue - it reminded me what exactly makes the Azamara experience so special. RCCL's failure in the landside operation to support such exemplary customer service is what is letting the line down.

 

We just returned home from the 12 night Black Sea cruise of Azamara Quest which ended September 1st in Istanbul – nobody told us onboard the details of the new program. We were told "exciting changes will come shortly". So we did not expect less perks we really can use.

 

 

We had a most wonderful time on board – but we do not like the new program.

 

 

I had hoped Azamara would one day offer “all internet included” as we were told Azamara wants to make its ships “paperless”.

For me to cut the free internet perk is a move in the opposite direction.

 

 

On our cruise on Quest the wifi was so bad, our tablet (which really works everywhere all over the world anFd did so last year on Journey) had no connection in our cabin on deck 7.

We were told wifi works in public areas, in some cabins it may not work. I guess with more and more devices being used their system is stretched to its limits.

And I expect not only the loyalty program may be affected by some top management decisions.

 

 

If my information is correct starting this September just after our cruise the housekeeping staff has 30% more cabins to attend to per person – this has to affect the Azamara cruise experience for all passengers.

With so many cruises in 2015 at key holiday dates on charter (and with Quest the ship we would favour!) in our opinion Azamara is no longer a cruise line with two ships. It is for us down to 1.5 ships at best!

So our doubts are: what other changes will come and will we ever have the same great onboard experience again.

 

I got on Quest as you disembarked, returning yesterday. We had an excellent cabin steward (as always) and our cabin was always cleaned impeccably. She was also a charming and helpful lady..

 

We had a wonderful cruise and I felt the food had improved a notch since my last sailing in October.

 

Like all those that have posted I think the LCV enhancements if they can be described such are very disappointing. Having run a loyalty club for a client a few years ago, when making changes it wouldn't have been in our thinking to remove existing perks only add to them. This is very odd behaviour.

 

However, I think there may be some positive news. When speaking to senior officers I know well it was indicated that a third ship is on the way and could be with us by the back end of 2015. Obviously this is not a new build but may give us more options when the charters are operating.

 

That said, for the first time in a long time I did not buy an Open Passage certificate. After my November Journey cruise I am having a rethink. Seabourn, Viking and Oceania interest me and Azamara will not necessarily be my first choice.

 

When chatting to officers onboard I told them about some of my pre cruise issues. They know there are problems land side. Now is the time to do something about them.

[Andy]

IHowever, I think there may be some positive news. When speaking to senior officers I know well it was indicated that a third ship is on the way and could be with us by the back end of 2015. Obviously this is not a new build but may give us more options when the charters are operating.

 

 

Hi Spursgirl,

 

Interesting comments, but it sounds like a shipboard rumor. I cannot imagine Azamara acquiring a non newbuild ship. They had the chance to have Celebrity Century, which was recently sold to Ctrip - a China entity. If Azamara didnt want a 70,000 ton ship (Century) - which I agree is a little too big for Azamara. However, knowing Century well - she's a beautiful but older ship, and I've sailed on her recently... IMO, Azamara should have jumped at the chance for her to be part of a 3 ship fleet for a few years - especially if newbuilds aren't forthcoming, and Azamara is looking to expand their charter business. Century could have filled a void, but it's out of the question now. That pretty much eliminates Celebrity, unless they acquire one of the M-Class ships, but they are 90,000 tons, which is even less of a fit for Azamara. Unless they know of R-Class ships coming on the market, I cant see where an existing ship will come from. RCCL ? All larger ships as well.

 

I'm still holding on to the possibilty of an Azamara newbuild or two, but with the LCV updates, it doesnt send a warm and fuzzy feeling about newbuilds future prospects.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Host Andy

[Spursgirl]

Hi Spursgirl,

 

Interesting comments, but it sounds like a shipboard rumor. I cannot imagine Azamara acquiring a non newbuild ship. They had the chance to have Celebrity Century, which was recently sold to Ctrip - a China entity. If Azamara didnt want a 70,000 ton ship (Century) - which I agree is a little too big for Azamara. However, knowing Century well - she's a beautiful but older ship, and I've sailed on her recently... IMO, Azamara should have jumped at the chance for her to be part of a 3 ship fleet for a few years - especially if newbuilds aren't forthcoming, and Azamara is looking to expand their charter business. Century could have filled a void, but it's out of the question now. That pretty much eliminates Celebrity, unless they acquire one of the M-Class ships, but they are 90,000 tons, which is even less of a fit for Azamara. Unless they know of R-Class ships coming on the market, I cant see where an existing ship will come from. RCCL ? All larger ships as well.

 

I'm still holding on to the possibilty of an Azamara newbuild or two, but with the LCV updates, it doesnt send a warm and fuzzy feeling about newbuilds future prospects.

 

Hi Andy,

 

I hope that what I was told is correct. a specific ship name was mentioned to us.

 

If though this is just a rumour I suspect they have lost me. The charters are taking Quest out at the times I most want to sail.

 

Guess we will all have to wait and see

 

Hazel

[excitedofharpenden]

Hi Spursgirl,

 

Interesting comments, but it sounds like a shipboard rumor. I cannot imagine Azamara acquiring a non newbuild ship. They had the chance to have Celebrity Century, which was recently sold to Ctrip - a China entity. If Azamara didnt want a 70,000 ton ship (Century) - which I agree is a little too big for Azamara. However, knowing Century well - she's a beautiful but older ship, and I've sailed on her recently... IMO, Azamara should have jumped at the chance for her to be part of a 3 ship fleet for a few years - especially if newbuilds aren't forthcoming, and Azamara is looking to expand their charter business. Century could have filled a void, but it's out of the question now. That pretty much eliminates Celebrity, unless they acquire one of the M-Class ships, but they are 90,000 tons, which is even less of a fit for Azamara. Unless they know of R-Class ships coming on the market, I cant see where an existing ship will come from. RCCL ? All larger ships as well.

 

I'm still holding on to the possibilty of an Azamara newbuild or two, but with the LCV updates, it doesnt send a warm and fuzzy feeling about newbuilds future prospects.

Andy, I think the key to Azamara's acquisition of a ship if there is going to be one is that I can't be the size of Century. She doesn't fit the Azamara model. It needs to be of Journey or Quest size or near enough, both of which can get into places the larger ones can't. This is part of the attraction of Azamara, evidenced on the North Cape cruise I went on in June where we spent a lot of the trip on the inside passage of the Norwegian Fjords. Even HAL's smaller Ryndam that ported with us in a couple of places had to go out to sea because she couldn't pass under the numerous bridges and power cables as we could. We also entered Gudvangen Fjord, once again too small for the larger ships. Made for a very enjoyable experience (and it wasn't as rough either!).

 

Phil

Edited September 10, 2014 by excitedofharpenden

[pacheco18]

Another insane strategy IMO

 

Alienate your most loyal passengers to the point that they state they will no longer sail on Azamara because of the LCV changes and defect to other cruise lines and then bring in a third ship?

 

Maybe some of you want to believe this "third ship" story but how long has this rumor been promulgated. Does not sound to me like a line that is "flush with cash" to build or acquire another ship. I would think if a new build were really in Azamara's future, top management would be shouting it from the rooftops.

 

I suppose time with tell . . .

[Jade13]

Hi Spursgirl,

 

Interesting comments, but it sounds like a shipboard rumor. I cannot imagine Azamara acquiring a non newbuild ship. They had the chance to have Celebrity Century, which was recently sold to Ctrip - a China entity. If Azamara didnt want a 70,000 ton ship (Century) - which I agree is a little too big for Azamara. However, knowing Century well - she's a beautiful but older ship, and I've sailed on her recently... IMO, Azamara should have jumped at the chance for her to be part of a 3 ship fleet for a few years - especially if newbuilds aren't forthcoming, and Azamara is looking to expand their charter business. Century could have filled a void, but it's out of the question now. That pretty much eliminates Celebrity, unless they acquire one of the M-Class ships, but they are 90,000 tons, which is even less of a fit for Azamara. Unless they know of R-Class ships coming on the market, I cant see where an existing ship will come from. RCCL ? All larger ships as well.

 

I'm still holding on to the possibilty of an Azamara newbuild or two, but with the LCV updates, it doesnt send a warm and fuzzy feeling about newbuilds future prospects.

 

Century never made any sense. It is too big for Azamara.

 

However, HAL is selling their "S" class ships, approx. 1,200 passengers. And, the hulls are already painted blue. If they want a larger ship, a 1,200 passenger ship makes more sense, and if I understand it, is the aprox. size Oceania has built recently.

 

However, I would hope they would have the funds to do some refurbishments. These ships had the common areas recently refurbished but not the staterooms, kind of like what Azamara did recently. I have said for years that Azamara has been closer to what HAL used to be more so than Celebrity. And, HAL is concentrating on building bigger ships and selling their smaller ones.

 

I have been on these ships multiple times and they can get into places the big ships can't such as to Montreal, Kiel Canal, and right now Panama Canal.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Jade13

[geocruiser]

Hi Spursgirl,

 

Interesting comments, but it sounds like a shipboard rumor. I cannot imagine Azamara acquiring a non newbuild ship. They had the chance to have Celebrity Century, which was recently sold to Ctrip - a China entity. If Azamara didnt want a 70,000 ton ship (Century) - which I agree is a little too big for Azamara. However, knowing Century well - she's a beautiful but older ship, and I've sailed on her recently... IMO, Azamara should have jumped at the chance for her to be part of a 3 ship fleet for a few years - especially if newbuilds aren't forthcoming, and Azamara is looking to expand their charter business. Century could have filled a void, but it's out of the question now. That pretty much eliminates Celebrity, unless they acquire one of the M-Class ships, but they are 90,000 tons, which is even less of a fit for Azamara. Unless they know of R-Class ships coming on the market, I cant see where an existing ship will come from. RCCL ? All larger ships as well.

 

I'm still holding on to the possibilty of an Azamara newbuild or two, but with the LCV updates, it doesnt send a warm and fuzzy feeling about newbuilds future prospects.

 

Hi Andy,

 

What about MS EUROPA as a new ship for Azamara. Up for sail and she Built: 1999

Registered Tonnage

(RT): 28,890

Category: 5-stars-plus

 

Of course there are lots of choices.

 

http://cruiseship.homestead.com/cruiseships.html

[pacheco18]

I am amazed that anyone believes that buying an old ship is a smart strategy to keep Azamara competitive when every other cruise line is building brand new state of the art ships designed with what today's cruisers want in mind. Renovation only takes you so far

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Spursgirl]

I am amazed that anyone believes that buying an old ship is a smart strategy to keep Azamara competitive when every other cruise line is building brand new state of the art ships designed with what today's cruisers want in mind. Renovation only takes you so far

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

Totally agree with you Laraine.

 

If a third ship is added to the fleet at least it will mean that I can sail Azamara if I choose to at my favourite time of the year.

 

But I don't think a new build is in anyone's thinking and those Oceania and Viking ships look very appealing to me.

[pacheco18]

Totally agree with you Laraine.

 

If a third ship is added to the fleet at least it will mean that I can sail Azamara if I choose to at my favourite time of the year.

 

But I don't think a new build is in anyone's thinking and those Oceania and Viking ships look very appealing to me.

 

Regent is also getting a new build. I personally won't sail Regent because of the included excursions that I do not want to pay for but it is an alternative for some.

[geocruiser]

I am amazed that anyone believes that buying an old ship is a smart strategy to keep Azamara competitive when every other cruise line is building brand new state of the art ships designed with what today's cruisers want in mind. Renovation only takes you so far

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

May be a new build is out of their reach? I can't really see them getting any ship new or old when the two ship that they have need to be upgraded. But there are use and new builds that can be ordered if Azamara wants.

 

PS,

 

Do you know how long it can take to build a new ship? Is it years or months?

Edited September 10, 2014 by geocruiser

[Jade13]

I am amazed that anyone believes that buying an old ship is a smart strategy to keep Azamara competitive when every other cruise line is building brand new state of the art ships designed with what today's cruisers want in mind. Renovation only takes you so far

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

I don't think anyone said it was a smart idea. Just someone saying they heard it was being done, and others mentioning ships that were or are for Sale.

[ikelmay]

Unfortunately, I don't think the management team at Azamara has a strategic vision and direction for the brand.

 

No matter how much spin is applied, there seems to be no evidence of investment (Bonnie's recent response concerning the onboard internet capacity issues for example). The other members of the group are powering on with refocusing on specific target markets and segments and seem to have a clear vision of what their product is and who it appeals to.

 

Given Azamara's core of loyal repeat cruisers, it doesn't strike me as particularly bright to attempt to spin the withdrawal of onboard perks as an 'upgrade'. I can only conclude that it was either a big misstep and miscalculation, or else an attempt to ensure a slow drain of LCV members back towards the Celebrity brand to keep them within the RCCL family.

 

I'm not speculating, just trying to figure out why supposedly smart people didn't figure that they would alienate a committed, loyal core of repeat cruisers, who know when the wool was being pulled over their eyes.

[CintiPam]

I am amazed that anyone believes that buying an old ship is a smart strategy to keep Azamara competitive when every other cruise line is building brand new state of the art ships designed with what today's cruisers want in mind. Renovation only takes you so far

 

Agree strongly with you on this one.

 

Unfortunately the negative threads on the Azamara board are overwhelming these days. Seems like every announcement made by Azamara management (so many charters - with more popping up all time time- plus the cutbacks in benefits) are negatively impacting devoted Azamara cruisers.

Edited September 10, 2014 by CintiPam

[Xport]

Hello Xport (post #114), et.al. ~ you (all of you!) continue to impress me with the thought you put into your responses.

I remain 100% confident in the future of Azamara Club Cruises and our dedication to our customers, ships and employees ashore and at sea.

As for yours, and the multitude of other criticisms of the new LCV program, there will no doubt be some fine-tuning to the program in the months to come. You can rest assured your comments are not falling on deaf ears.

 

For acknowledging that the LCV redesign as revealed last week may be up for some reconsideration... My initial reactions as to how the changes impact me personally were quickly replaced by personal curiosity as to why Azamara chose to take the drastic actions they did and couldn't help but induce some speculation surrounding the very unusual Corporate behavior...

 

My only hope is that Azamara is mindful that time is of the essence in terms of any fine-tuning that might occur with respect to LCV given that the new program is to take effect 1 January 2015... At the present time, the only "improved" loyalty benefit I accrued for having sailed Azamara--and it was otherwise a wonderful experience--for 28 days during 2014 [which would have been 42 days had Journey not unfortunately become disabled in Tokyo] is a net reduction in my Cruise Point accrual--despite having attained Discover + membership at the time of sailing--for the pleasure! Azamara credits 3 Points per day for a balcony cabin during 2014; that will increase to 5 per day--as it always should have been on a comparative basis to Celebrity's accrual rates for equivalent or lesser spend [the subject was discussed at length here early this year; it seems that Azamara listened but not quickly/not before it adversely affected some without intent--it's already covered in the revised program's Terms & Conditions--to remediate]... Sounds trivial--perhaps it is--but I've long understood that those 56 Cruise Points further delayed and added expense to my journey toward reaching Zenith level on Celebrity and Discoverer Platinum level on Azamara! Last week's "big reveal" merely reminded me of that fact...

 

Thanks, once again, for your advocacy in bringing our observations forward for a hearing... I'm truly sorry that Azamara has placed you in so unenviable a position but am hard-pressed as to how they might have anticipated a different reaction from those with an Azamara/Celebrity track record...

 

Do know that, regardless of how this plays out from a personal perspective [business is--mutually--business; we all view such things differently], I root for the robust future of Azamara, its exceptional onboard Team of Officers and crew, and its very allegiant following... No threats/no promises; I hope to have reason to be among them...

[kiawahdon]

May be a new build is out of their reach? I can't really see them getting any ship new or old when the two ship that they have need to be upgraded. But there are use and new builds that can be ordered if Azamara wants.

 

PS,

 

Do you know how long it can take to build a new ship? Is it years or months?

 

The attached chart taken from Cruise Industry News may be insightful. It shows all known new cruise ship orders. I have highlighted the orders of RCL and its subsidiary, TUI:totaling 29,000 new berths costing $7 billion. Nothing on the books for Celebrity- interesting to say the least.

The corporate capital committed and the berths being added do not auger well for Azamara in my opinion.

To answer your other question, a new ship can take 18 months to over 2 years to build. Then there is the pre-build design time which can be months to years depending upon if the ship is a new design or another cookie-cutter of an existing design.

cruise ship orders 2014-19.docx

[geocruiser]

The attached chart taken from Cruise Industry News may be insightful. It shows all known new cruise ship orders. I have highlighted the orders of RCL and its subsidiary, TUI:totaling 29,000 new berths costing $7 billion. Nothing on the books for Celebrity- interesting to say the least.

The corporate capital committed and the berths being added do not auger well for Azamara in my opinion.

To answer your other question, a new ship can take 18 months to over 2 years to build. Then there is the pre-build design time which can be months to years depending upon if the ship is a new design or another cookie-cutter of an existing design.

 

Thank, that is very good info. I can see that the cost is high for a new mid size ship or a large one.