Malaysian Airlines Flight

[The_Big_M]

My whole point is with this situation you could be "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire" if you have heard that analogy. While people are quick to blame Russia, they are ignoring the fact that there are two sides to this war and to be perfectly blunt I hold Russia in higher trust than I would Ukraine any day. I do have right wing political views if that helps and I do not trust Ukraine.

 

Ukraine is a sovereign state.

 

It's not about who you prefer - although the intolerance and crackdowns and lack of freedom and killings that have occurred under the Putin regime mean it would not be at the top of my list - but that Ukraine has its right to its own decisions.

 

Russia invading, breaking treaties with them, and supporting terrorism are even worse things on top of that.

[The_Big_M]

Have you seen the most recent and there are many MH17 flight paths pre this one that are now show as being at least 300 miles south with many more than 300 miles south of the tragedy and none this far North?

 

 

Actually, if you look at the map on Der Spiegel from the past few weeks you'll see it is well within the variability of previous MAS flights, and moreover consistent with other airlines.

 

Of course, even if it was the most variable - which it isn't - that still wouldn't prove anything. Something has to be the most extreme. Weather, winds and traffic change daily.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/malaysia-airlines-mh17-karte-grafiken-route-flugroute-a-981784.html

 

Go halfway down the page to heading: "Ausgewählte Flugrouten anderer Gesellschaften "

 

 

They were given a safe route that was not safe! Why was it not safe even for a airliner at that height? because surface to air missiles with the capability of well above airline maximum height were reported and shown to have been captured from Ukrainian forces way before this tragedy.

 

They were given a route that was believed to be safe! Again, many other airlines used that route. Why on earth would so many airlines use a route if they all believed it to be unsafe?!

 

As for height, those missiles had only been transported in the day before, and it was not well known. Your claim that they were captured from Ukrainian forces "way before this tragedy" is false.

 

Most importantly, it is apparent even the terrorists were not planning to use them against such targets - hence why they haven't admitted it and are trying to cover it up!

[Host Walt]

Sorry but topic drift has taken this thread way beyond a discussion about Australian & New Zealand cruising. While the subject is current, Cruise Critic is not a world affairs website.

 

That's why a number of posts in this thread have been removed.

 

Please be sure any future posts are discussing the tragedy in context of its impact on cruising.

 

Thanks.

[happysnapper]

Sorry but topic drift has taken this thread way beyond a discussion about Australian & New Zealand cruising. While the subject is current, Cruise Critic is not a world affairs website.

 

That's why a number of posts in this thread have been removed.

 

Please be sure any future posts are discussing the tragedy in context of its impact on cruising.

 

Thanks.

 

Point taken. Please understand we are all fellow travellers and no matter how we travel we want to feel safe. Australians have been greatly traumatised by this event and this medium was available for us to vent our frustration and pain although as you say it did drift. Subject closed.

[NSWP]

Sorry but topic drift has taken this thread way beyond a discussion about Australian & New Zealand cruising. While the subject is current, Cruise Critic is not a world affairs website.

 

That's why a number of posts in this thread have been removed.

 

Please be sure any future posts are discussing the tragedy in context of its impact on cruising.

 

Thanks.

 

WALT, with all due respect, OK a couple of my posts have been removed, but if 40 or so Americans had been killed in this incident, would the subject have been terminated? We Aussie/Kiwis were debating aviation safety which is relevant to cruise travel, most of us have to get on an aircraft to get to the ship from downunder !!

Edited July 21, 2014 by NSWP

[KarateMan]

The latest news on the subject seems to indicate progress is being made. It seems to be a big step the Russian President took calling our Prime Minister who stated he "said all the right things". I recon we just wait and see how this thing plays out. I presume the Russians will want the black boxes and as much as they can get their hands on just so they can say they were the ones who turned it over.

 

The only thing we have to remember is that it is a major war zone with extreme views on each side. These people hate each other so we cant expect results immediately.

 

Though I agree with our PM's comments it was no accident. There is too much information available to fully identify aircraft in the sky. ESM sensors, IFF systems, free online media like the live flight radar. Any warfare group in their right mind would want all that information because it means losses for them if they get the wrong target.

 

The problem is these terrorist warlords seem to think that people will go to the extent of purchasing a civilian plane, painting it in airline colours, equipping it with civilian radars and sensors just to deceive people into thinking it is a civilian flight. That is the whole reason the area should have been avoided because terrorists do believe that a "civilian aircraft" is an elaborately meticulously created spy plane coming to attack them.

[johndon]

With respect Walt and hoping for some understanding and empathy from you to Australian &New Zealand cruisers that you may begin to understand our point of view and our outrage at the destruction of MH17

As has been posted on this site, a few cruisers have stated they will never fly with Malaysian Airlines again because of this incident. I for one have flown with Malaysian Airlines to connect with cruises out of Asia and the connection between this incident and future cruising planning is very real and very relevant to the disgust and outrage expressed by us from "Down Under"

As was said, would your decision to guillotine any further angry discussion be the same if several American citizens were victims of this outrage?

Give us a fair go Walt. After all it is an Australian & New Zealand discussion site and we are all outraged at what has happened. If our comments are directed at a particular country and leader then so be it. At least let us have our say

 

John

[OzKiwiJJ]

Almost all airlines from this part of the world fly over or close to that area, it is one of the major through corridors, so naturally we are concerned.

Edited July 22, 2014 by OzKiwiJJ

[MMDown Under]

I believe this unspeakable tragedy will have a direct impact on future decisions people make about cruising overseas.

 

Like many Aussies, I am outraged at this senseless downing of Malaysian Airlines. I have to fly long distances to join cruises overseas, even though I actually hate flying. In my wildest fears, I never dreamed that I could be shot out of the sky. I am haunted by the words of the Dutch Representative to the UN, because those were my thoughts.

 

I will no longer consider cruises to -

 

• Russia
  
• Black Sea
  
• Middle East
  
• Israel
  
• Egypt
  

for reasons well understood by most thinking people.

[Katgoesonholiday]

We flew from London to Hong Kong - passing over Russian air space - only a matter of an hour or two after this plane was shot down. It was a horrible feeling sitting on the plane reading the online news whilst waiting for the rest of the passengers to get into their seats, knowing that we now had little choice or control about how we returned home to NZ. :(

 

Thankfully we were flying Cathay which has been choosing to fly further north to avoid Ukrainian air space for some time. However, I have asked my husband (a frequent traveller for business) to promise to fly via America from now on and illogical though it might be, Malaysian Airlines is not an option we will consider.

 

Its a great tragedy and my heart goes out to all those affected.

[MMDown Under]

We flew from London to Hong Kong - passing over Russian air space - only a matter of an hour or two after this plane was shot down. It was a horrible feeling sitting on the plane reading the online news whilst waiting for the rest of the passengers to get into their seats, knowing that we now had little choice or control about how we returned home to NZ. :(

 

Its a great tragedy and my heart goes out to all those affected.

 

I feel for you to be flying over Russia so soon after the plane was shot down. It must have been an enormous relief when you landed in Hong Kong, then finally NZ.

[Katgoesonholiday]

I feel for you to be flying over Russia so soon after the plane was shot down. It must have been an enormous relief when you landed in Hong Kong, then finally NZ.

 

It really was! Especially since we didn't know till after whether we were flying the same route or a different one. I literally read the breaking news as we were on the tarmac and five minutes later we had to turn off our devices. Naturally they didn't mention anything on the flight as it would have likely caused alarm and consternation.