Turkish Political Turns/Direction? Future?

[TLCOhio]

We super loved in 2006 our two days in Istanbul, plus port stops enroute in Bodrum and for Ephesus. BUT, this weekend's news from the Turkey elections are raising concerns for the future direction with this country being close to the "action" in the Middle East. We hope to go back again to Istanbul and see more along its coastal areas. Such great history, culture, food, architecture, people, etc., in this country.

 

From the BBC and other media sources this morning, they have this headline: "Erdogan wins Turkish presidential election". Here are some of the BBC highlights: "The veteran leader, who has spent three terms as prime minister, is revered by supporters for boosting the economy and giving a voice to conservatives. But his critics lament his authoritarian approach and Islamist leanings in a secular state, says the BBC's Mark Lowen in Ankara. Erdogan has been prime minister since 2003 and was barred from standing for another term. Turkey - wedged between the turmoil of Iraq, Syria and Ukraine - is an important ally for the West, our correspondent adds, and whoever becomes head of state will hold a key geopolitical position."

 

One Jewish publication from Israel, had this headline: "Erdogan, ally of Hamas, wins first direct presidential election in Turkey"

 

From the Wall Street Journal analysis: "Despite his popularity, the Turkey that Erdogan will govern as president is starkly polarized. A recent survey from the Pew Research Center portrayed Turkey as a divided society, with 48% approving of Erdogan and 48% disapproving. Many in Turkey's secular opposition feel excluded from politics. Erdogan's victory caps a dramatic reversal in fortunes from six months ago, when he was besieged by street protests, a sinking economy and a sprawling corruption scandal that snared dozens of his top allies. But domestic political victories have also drawn concern in some Western capitals that Erdogan has lurched toward a more autocratic system of governance, evoking comparisons to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has also occupied the posts of head of state and prime minister. Some analysts have suggested Mr. Erdogan's populism, polarizing rhetoric and omnipresence on television is more akin to former Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez."

 

Don't want to start a "political" debate here on these boards. Just alert folks planning to be there to keep an eye out for how the stability of Turkey continues in the coming months and years. The earlier "tensions" have calmed and hopefully, they will stay that way. That balance of the secular versus non-secular in Turkey is key as their country has grown and improved so much economically in recent years.

 

Full stories at:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28729234

http://online.wsj.com/articles/turks-cast-votes-in-presidential-election-with-erdogan-primed-for-win-1407658125

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

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http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[JVNYC]

Thanks Terry for this great info....I'm following this as well. I've been eyeing a fantastic Azamara itinerary in 2016 that includes many ports on the beautiful Turkish Riviera (Turquoise Coast). I'm very concerned now and not sure I'm going to book this given the many future "unknowns."

 

Turkey may turn out to be one of those places that would constantly have to be watched on the news to make sure it's ok to go!

[CintiPam]

Turkey under Erdogan definitely is turning back the clock on so much for which Ataturk strove. It has been a gradual process but very pervasive. Particularly troublesome for women IMO.

[Charles4515]

Don't want to start a "political" debate here on these boards. Just alert folks planning to be there to keep an eye out for how the stability of Turkey continues in the coming months and years. The earlier "tensions" have calmed and hopefully, they will stay that way. That balance of the secular versus non-secular in Turkey is key as their country has grown and improved so much economically in recent years.

 

 

You can't predict the future for Turkey or any other country for that matter for months or years. I keep my eye out about any country I plan to visit. I don't see the point at all of your post on this board.

[4774Papa]

You can't predict the future for Turkey or any other country for that matter for months or years. I keep my eye out about any country I plan to visit. I don't see the point at all of your post on this board.

Charles,

Terry may be trying to understand Turkey's culture, which includes its politics.

 

In extreme cases, not paying attention to the politics can be problematic.

I remember visiting several Communist countries during the 80s, when I lived in Germany and politics was serious business. In 1989, we took a tour of Poland while Solidarity was boldly challenging its Communist President. The feeling of change was in the air and it was highly invigorating. We all purchased Solidarity pins and wore them.

 

Of course Turkey is not North Korea, Cuba or even Egypt, which is going through an internal political struggle.

 

Erdogan is essentially pushing policies similar to the Muslim Brotherhood, which lost power in Egypt. I am not saying Erdogan is a terrorist, but his eventual goal is to convert Turkey to an Islamic state rather than a secular Western oriented state. His policies, if implemented, will lead to turning back the Turkish clock a century.

 

There has been discussion of turing Hagia Sophia back into a Mosque. It was turned into a museum after Ataturk.

 

Look at a photo of graduates of Cairo University 60 years ago. The women wore Western dress. Today, they all wear the conservative clothing covering their hair, arms and legs, etc. That is what the Muslim Brotherhood did to Egypt. That can happen in Turkey.

 

I don't go to a foreign country to get involved in their politics, but I enjoy trying to understand the politics, which helps you understand the people and culture.

[TLCOhio]

Charles, Terry may be trying to understand Turkey's culture, which includes its politics. There has been discussion of turing Hagia Sophia back into a Mosque. It was turned into a museum after Ataturk. I don't go to a foreign country to get involved in their politics, but I enjoy trying to understand the politics, which helps you understand the people and culture.

 

Appreciate the super excellent comments and insights from 4774Papa. My interest is to understand the people and culture. That involves the history, politics, etc. What Ataturk did with the Hagia Sophia is an example for part of that "process". Now, the question is whether Ataturk's policies and direction continue or change? As noted in Egypt, that can have implications and complications.

 

Liked the follow-up comments and insights from CintiPam and JVNYC. There are few other places in the world that have had the huge amount of history and strategic geo-positioning as what exists in Turkey and Istanbul. It is not just another place where you do a cruise stop. Very special and unique. Hence my strong interest and that of others! And, positive hopes for its future. Some care and are interested in all of that background, culture, history, etc., for where they are visiting or have been. Others not. That's OK, too. Personal choice for what "floats your boat".

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

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for much more information and lots of wonderful pictures on these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 71,961 views for this fun posting.

[sitraveler]

I've visited Turkey several times on cruises and have found the people and the country extremely interesting and warm. We are leaving in a few days for a 4 week ground tour through most of the country and will report back. On visits to Egypt over the last 10 years have also found more traditional attire to be more common.

[Charles4515]

Appreciate the super excellent comments and insights from 4774Papa. My interest is to understand the people and culture.

 

It is good to have that interest but I advise you not to draw a simplistic political conclusion. The so called secularists also had an authoritarian bent when they were in power. They excluded the Islamists from politics. The military enforced the secularism. They enforced the western dress.

[4774Papa]

It is good to have that interest but I advise you not to draw a simplistic political conclusion. The so called secularists also had an authoritarian bent when they were in power. They excluded the Islamists from politics. The military enforced the secularism. They enforced the western dress.

To some degree, what you say is true. However, the Secularists were only authoritarian to preserve the system. The system was that religion and politics remain separate, unlike the rest of the countries in the Muslim World where Islam is the only system.

 

Free elections were still held and freedom of expression, etc. was relatively good.

 

However, the secularists failed. They opened the door to the Islamists and the Islamists have purged the secularists from the military and government, so the it is highly likely that secularism will eventually be a thing of the past. Ataturk's vision is failing.

 

How long before the pressure is for Women to dress in traditional, not Western dress? How long before female circumcision will be demanded?

Erdogan, if left in power, will change Turkey. I saw some hope when opposition took over Istanbul's main square to protest, but that was just a speed bump for Mr. Muslim Brotherhood.

 

Why worry, in a couple of generations, Islam will be the predominant religion in most of Europe.

[cruisemom42]

While I'm very sure Terry started the discussion out of good intentions, I'd have to agree with a previous poster that speculation and discussion about Turkey's future direction from those who aren't intimately familiar with Turkey's situation probably aren't going to be either very accurate or very useful to most travelers.

 

After all....one could say that the American voting public is almost equally divided among our two parties, but to think that someone in Turkey would have the knowledge of our history, understanding of our political system, and pulse of our culture to make accurate assessments about where we are headed would be a difficult sell for most.

 

For those worried about visiting Turkey, I think things would need to get MUCH more dicey there before I'd consider it a risk for travelers, at least in those parts of the country that tourists frequent.

Edited August 13, 2014 by cruisemom42

[4774Papa]

While I'm very sure Terry started the discussion out of good intentions, I'd have to agree with a previous poster that speculation and discussion about Turkey's future direction from those who aren't intimately familiar with Turkey's situation probably aren't going to be either very accurate or very useful to most travelers.

 

After all....one could say that the American voting public is almost equally divided among our two parties, but to think that someone in Turkey would have the knowledge of our history, understanding of our political system, and pulse of our culture to make accurate assessments about where we are headed would be a difficult sell for most.

 

For those worried about visiting Turkey, I think things would need to get MUCH more dicey there before I'd consider it a risk for travelers, at least in those parts of the country that tourists frequent.

I agree.

[TheCruisingBrewers]

I too have been watching this with interest because we are going to visit Turkey next year. I took a look at the travel/state/gov website this morning for input after reading the notes here. I am not sure all are aware that travel advisories are posted here but have found this website very helpful in the past. It was very helpful to me when my son was stuck in Thailand due to the airport closures, during the political unrest there several years ago.

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/turkey.html

 

I am a firm believer to go out and see the world, but urge people who have ports in mind at risk, to read these to be aware of what they may be travelling into.

 

It will be interesting to see in cruise lines start cancelling port calls in Turkey as they have done on Egypt and some of the other ports of the middle east.

[cruisemom42]

It will be interesting to see in cruise lines start cancelling port calls in Turkey as they have done on Egypt and some of the other ports of the middle east.

 

Absent any alert or warning from the US (or other) governments, why would they cancel?

[CintiPam]

Although I am not a fan of Erdogan's views and policies (such as his recent statement regarding Hitler and the Israelis), I absolutely would have no fear of visiting Turkey. We had a wonderful four-day visit this past May. Certainly nothing has occurred there comparable at all to the recurrent violence in Egypt.

Edited August 13, 2014 by CintiPam

[maria1963]

As a frequent visitor to and homeowner in Turkey, I'd have no worries. The ports which cruises visit are seldom if at all involved in any trouble. We have been visiting since 1989 and have visited during many troubled times in neighbouring countries and not had a minutes trouble

[Hlitner]

We totally support Terry and his post...and here is why. As frequent international travelers we often have friends ask us if we are worried about our personal security when we go to various countries around the world. Because we do a lot of international travel (as does Terry) we make it our business to keep well informed on the political situation in countries...where that can impact our personal safety. Being "aware and knowledgeable" gives us a lot of confidence when we go to certain countries. But many here on CC are not as well informed and often look to CC as a place to gain info.

 

So, an open discussion on Turkey and its near-future has a huge impact on the travel decisions of many folks. While we would still feel comfortable traveling in most of Turkey, we share the concerns of many (including many Turks) about the future of this country when it comes to tourism.

 

I would emphasize that as of the current time, we would not hesitate to visit Turkey where we often go off on our own (with a rental car) to places not loaded with tourists. In fact, our DD is going to Turkey next week on a vacation, and we lent our own support to their decision to take the trip.

 

But, elections do have consequences and the current trend towards Islamic conservatism in Turkey is certainly going to impact on future tourism. It will be interesting to see if President Erdogan (or his government) does anything positive to promote tourism and reassure tourists. When the #2 person in the government issues comments that it is not proper for "women to laugh in public," this is not the kind of statement that reassures potential tourists (we have another thread here about that specific topic).

 

Hank