Princess, are you listening?

[Ethel5]

Many companies over the years have trained their customers that if they complain long and loud, they will get what they demand-right or wrong. The "customer is always right" system went out the door when dishonest people found that they could complain and be compensated. :(

[geoherb]

I've witnessed boorish behavior on the part of passengers. Once a man was arguing with a head waiter because he could not eat lunch in the dining room. The man came 15 minutes after the posted closing time. The head waiter was trying to be firm as he patiently pointed that out as well as the dining venues that were still open that the man could go to. The man was making a huge scene, finally storming off saying that he was heading to passenger services to file a complaint. I hope they did not give him anything.

 

And wasn't there an infamous passenger on Princess who has been been banned?

[shredie]

It is one thing if there is a legitimate problem-but I like to hang around passenger services from time to time and it AMAZING some of the "problems" cruise passengers come up with in hopes of getting a few bucks of their bill.

 

I guess the only time I go to the services desk is when my card demagnetizes (which happens more often than is even normal :o) so I guess I miss out on the fun. I think I'll add that to my list of activities next cruise. Sounds like fun. :)

[Thrak]

We watched (and listened to) a passenger come unglued on a crew member at a Pub Lunch. The crew member was polite and tried his best to do his job and maintain his cool but the passenger was determined to ream him out and was being extremely rude. He stormed out of the place and went straight to customer service to complain. He clearly wanted the guy fired and made a big stink. As the people seated nearest the crew member asked if we could please tell the officer who was called to the scene what we had seen and heard. He was obviously extremely worried and then just as obviously relieved when my wife and I told the officer that the crew member had done nothing wrong or rude and had been very polite. We said that the passenger had been an extremely rude jerk and had absolutely no basis for his complaint.

 

Gee, maybe I should have asked for $500 OBC for being a witness for Princess! :rolleyes:

[BruceMuzz]

I've always thought Princess's service has been in the gray area, I can hardly recall any examples where the customer has been really cared for when the matter hits the fan.

 

It's disappointing really as they don't understand customer longevity, although compensation that's appropriate takes an initial hit on profits, properly meeting or exceeding the customers expectation can result in the customer being more impressed than they were before the problem existed.

 

Customers remember that, and while the poors man compensation offer may initially be acceptable, it will stick in the mind and affect that customers decision in future and stop Princess being able to invest in cruisers that will keep coming back for more, perhaps even cruising for decades. It's risked all for the sake of a few hundred bucks, and I've seen the grand old phrase of "I'm never travelling with you again" countless, countless times.......it kills the long term business health. It may take years for that impact to come but it will come.

 

Marshall Field - and many others with those ideas - went out of business long ago.

 

The entire concept of going the extra distance to convince those return customers to come back is no longer viable in the cruise industry.

Carnival Cruise Line has been proving it for the past 22 consecutive years, where they have remained the most profitable and highest rated (by pax and travel agents) cruise line on planet earth.

Carnival's internal policy is to discourage repeat cruisers from returning to them.

They removed the future cruise sales people from their ships.

Their frequent cruiser program offers very little for loyalty.

They do not encourage complainers with cash rewards.

They throw mis-behaving pax off their ships and do not allow them to return.

 

Carnival proved to the rest of us long ago that frequent cruisers are the biggest money loser we have.

They are generally high maintenance and not cost-effective to the line. The more cruises they take, the less they spend onboard our ships. Since today's cruise line sales model is selling cruises at cost or at a loss, then recouping profits through onboard spending, the frugal frequent cruiser is our worst enemy.

My employer recently conducted a study, comparing frequency of cruising with onboard spending.

Every time a passenger takes another cruise, his/her onboard spending drops an average 9%.

After 10 cruises, they are spending essentially nothing onboard. The cruise line is transporting them for free.

 

Every study done over the past 2 decades show us that the supply of new first-time cruisers is growing far faster than we can build ships to put them on. Every prediction is that this supply will continue to grow faster than we can, for a very long time.

When we talk to these new cruisers and ask them why they go on a cruise, the answer is almost always the same: PRICE. It is cheaper for them to cruise than it is to take a land-based vacation.

 

So then you can ask a cruise line CEO if he prefers to spend additional money to convince frugal frequent cruisers to come back and reduce his profits while demanding more and better services. Or would he prefer to court the seemingly endless supply of free-spending first-timers who are only concerned with basic services and low fares.

I think you already know what his answer is going to be.

 

Providing great service is still definitely the way to go - but convincing the public to return is a recipe for bankruptcy in today's market.

Edited September 13, 2014 by BruceMuzz

[shredie]

We watched (and listened to) a passenger come unglued on a crew member at a Pub Lunch.

 

What happened? Did he spill something? Was the fish cold?

[Thrak]

What happened? Did he spill something? Was the fish cold?

 

He didn't get his order taken as quickly as he felt he should. He then buttonholed the poor guy passing through (he wasn't an order taker) and started reaming him. The staff member tried to mollify him and assure him he would be taken care of right away but...

[Loonbeam]

Bruce's numbers are pretty much what I heard when I was working at Princess, possibly a little more severe.

 

In short, Princess does not have a huge financial incentive to want you back beyond a certain point.

 

Marshall Field - and many others with those ideas - went out of business long ago.

 

The entire concept of going the extra distance to convince those return customers to come back is no longer viable in the cruise industry.

Carnival Cruise Line has been proving it for the past 22 consecutive years, where they have remained the most profitable and highest rated (by pax and travel agents) cruise line on planet earth.

Carnival's internal policy is to discourage repeat cruisers from returning to them.

They removed the future cruise sales people from their ships.

Their frequent cruiser program offers very little for loyalty.

They do not encourage complainers with cash rewards.

They throw mis-behaving pax off their ships and do not allow them to return.

 

Carnival proved to the rest of us long ago that frequent cruisers are the biggest money loser we have.

They are generally high maintenance and not cost-effective to the line. The more cruises they take, the less they spend onboard our ships. Since today's cruise line sales model is selling cruises at cost or at a loss, then recouping profits through onboard spending, the frugal frequent cruiser is our worst enemy.

My employer recently conducted a study, comparing frequency of cruising with onboard spending.

Every time a passenger takes another cruise, his/her onboard spending drops an average 9%.

After 10 cruises, they are spending essentially nothing onboard. The cruise line is transporting them for free.

 

Every study done over the past 2 decades show us that the supply of new first-time cruisers is growing far faster than we can build ships to put them on. Every prediction is that this supply will continue to grow faster than we can, for a very long time.

When we talk to these new cruisers and ask them why they go on a cruise, the answer is almost always the same: PRICE. It is cheaper for them to cruise than it is to take a land-based vacation.

 

So then you can ask a cruise line CEO if he prefers to spend additional money to convince frugal frequent cruisers to come back and reduce his profits while demanding more and better services. Or would he prefer to court the seemingly endless supply of free-spending first-timers who are only concerned with basic services and low fares.

I think you already know what his answer is going to be.

 

Providing great service is still definitely the way to go - but convincing the public to return is a recipe for bankruptcy in today's market.

[PrincessLuver]

I just read this article and agree 100% Princess might benefit by following these principles. ;)

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-kjerulf/top-5-reasons-customer-service_b_5145636.html

 

This article is ridiculous.......

 

The "Customer Is Always Right" has more to do with the idea that "customer satisfaction matters." It matters not only to the customer, but even more so to the business because it directly impacts a company's bottom line profits.

 

Furthermore, it is one of the most important components of a company's positive brand image.

 

Customer satisfaction arrows the reason why customer satisfaction directly affects bottom line profitability is quite simple: it costs far less to retain a happy client than it does to find a new client. Businesses that have been successful retaining the business of their loyal clients have shown over time to consistently increase profits from their installed client base. The impact of customer loyalty is impossible to overlook.

 

Bethune's methods at Continental are more corporate myth and they still exist today. We can see how that his attitude has helped the United merger. His ideas have won out and the pre-merger United flyers have left Continental Doing Business as United in droves.....they are not making a profit compared to other airlines and their attitude of the "Customer Is Always Wrong" has made them one of the least liked airlines in the business.

 

I hope Princess does not listen to that nonsense.

 

One only has to look at companies like Costco that practice the philosophy of "The Customer Is Always Right" and those corporations get great customer satisfaction and profits.....

[SeagoingMom]

Guess we need a compromise: "The customer is often right." :rolleyes:

 

I have been thinking about that "We'll miss you, Mrs. Crabapple" letter mentioned by the OP. Perhaps companies do need to draft a sort of "good bye" letter to use when the customer is not right. Instead of the smarmy form letter that most companies use --"Thank you very much for your comments. Our company values your feedback and we will pass your comments on to the appropriate department." -- maybe they should be more honest -- "It appears that your problem is one that our company will not be able to solve to your satisfaction, so we suggest you consider taking your business to one of our competitors, listed below!"

 

It seems to me that this way, everyone would find their level. Customers would ultimately have to find a company they are willing to do business with, and businesses would get the customers whose business they want!

 

P.S. I'm not in business, so don't expect too much... :rolleyes:

[RDC1]

This article is ridiculous.......

 

The "Customer Is Always Right" has more to do with the idea that "customer satisfaction matters." It matters not only to the customer, but even more so to the business because it directly impacts a company's bottom line profits.

 

Furthermore, it is one of the most important components of a company's positive brand image.

 

Customer satisfaction arrows the reason why customer satisfaction directly affects bottom line profitability is quite simple: it costs far less to retain a happy client than it does to find a new client. Businesses that have been successful retaining the business of their loyal clients have shown over time to consistently increase profits from their installed client base. The impact of customer loyalty is impossible to overlook.

 

Bethune's methods at Continental are more corporate myth and they still exist today. We can see how that his attitude has helped the United merger. His ideas have won out and the pre-merger United flyers have left Continental Doing Business as United in droves.....they are not making a profit compared to other airlines and their attitude of the "Customer Is Always Wrong" has made them one of the least liked airlines in the business.

 

I hope Princess does not listen to that nonsense.

 

One only has to look at companies like Costco that practice the philosophy of "The Customer Is Always Right" and those corporations get great customer satisfaction and profits.....

 

Costco does not really follow a practice that the customer is always right, neither do a bunch of other very successful companies. What they do follow is to understand the customers they want to attract. They define service offerings that appeal to those customers. They work to execute those service offerings very well. They work to correct situations where they fail to execute in providing those services.

 

If you think Costco has the view that customers are always right try going to customer service and complain that they need to carry a wider selection, or need smaller package sizes or anything else that is outside of what they have defined their services to be. I doubt you will see your request honored.

 

Many of the companies that have high customer satisfaction ratings do so because they have very targeted customers, define their services for those customers, and are perfectly willing for customers outside of that targeted group to go away. they have very high ratings among their customers because those that are not satisfied by their services tend not to remain as their customers. Harley Davidson, Apple and many other of the cult brands fall into this model, as does Costco.

Edited September 14, 2014 by RDC1

[ar1950]

Costco does not really follow a practice that the customer is always right, neither do a bunch of other very successful companies. What they do follow is to understand the customers they want to attract...............

 

Many of the companies that have high customer satisfaction ratings do so because they have very targeted customers, define their services for those customers, and are perfectly willing for customers outside of that targeted group to go away. they have very high ratings among their customers because those that are not satisfied by their services tend not to remain as their customers. Harley Davidson, Apple and many other of the cult brands fall into this model, as does Costco.

 

Marshall Field - and many others with those ideas - went out of business long ago.

 

The entire concept of going the extra distance to convince those return customers to come back is no longer viable in the cruise industry..........

 

Providing great service is still definitely the way to go - but convincing the public to return is a recipe for bankruptcy in today's market.

 

Exactly. Companies can only do so much to retain a customer. If there is no profit potential in the long run then it is pointless to do more. Having been in business and seeing how one unsatisfiable customer can drain you and your profits I can attest that you don't want that customer. You look for the customer base that your business model will work for and that is just the way it is. There is an old maxim of the 80/20 rule that says: 80% of your problems come from 20% of your customers. Best course of action is focus on the 80% that works for you. Everyone is happier in the end.

Edited September 14, 2014 by ar1950

[shredie]

The customer may not be right always, but that doesn't mean the customer is always wrong. From some of the discussion here, you'd think every customer is trying to cheat something out of every company and that no company wants to do business with a customer more than once. There must be some value to retaining customers for repeat business since many companies offer loyalty programs to get them to come back.

[ar1950]

.................

Every study done over the past 2 decades show us that the supply of new first-time cruisers is growing far faster than we can build ships to put them on. Every prediction is that this supply will continue to grow faster than we can, for a very long time............

 

So then you can ask a cruise line CEO if he prefers to spend additional money to convince frugal frequent cruisers to come back and reduce his profits while demanding more and better services. Or would he prefer to court the seemingly endless supply of free-spending first-timers who are only concerned with basic services and low fares.

I think you already know what his answer is going to be................

 

Well that doesn't bode well for all of us older fogies. :eek:

[ar1950]

The customer may not be right always, but that doesn't mean the customer is always wrong. From some of the discussion here, you'd think every customer is trying to cheat something out of every company and that no company wants to do business with a customer more than once. There must be some value to retaining customers for repeat business since many companies offer loyalty programs to get them to come back.

 

My only comment is that Princess has always treated us well when we had an issue that was reasonable to ask for help with. I think that many (and I did not say all) of the complaints on these boards fall under the 80/20 rule that I mentioned above. As far as the loyalty programs go you may want to re-read BruceMuzz's post above. Marketing research may not be perfect, but, its pretty darn good. The future is coming whether we are ready or not. :cool:

Edited September 14, 2014 by ar1950

[cdngrl]

I'm feeling kind of depressed about all of this.

even though I'm an 80% and never complain, princess doesn't want me as a repeat customer. they would rather entice a new, younger cruiser.

brucemuzz said "convincing the public to return is a recipe for bankruptcy in today's market". I don't want this to be true! I'd like to stick my head in the sand a while longer please.

[gcsmith]

I'm feeling kind of depressed about all of this.

even though I'm an 80% and never complain, princess doesn't want me as a repeat customer. they would rather entice a new, younger cruiser.

brucemuzz said "convincing the public to return is a recipe for bankruptcy in today's market". I don't want this to be true! I'd like to stick my head in the sand a while longer please.

 

Princess doesn't want me as a repeat passenger? I haven't been on the line in 3-4 years (switched to NCL for kids program and Haven - just wow). Going on a 4-day out of LA, $750 1st/2nd if I wasn't a previous passenger. Previous passenger rate - $429. I think they want us back. This is for a mini-suite, which is the smallest cabin I'd do with my wife and 2 children.

Edited September 14, 2014 by gcsmith
clarify cabin type

[swedish weave]

Another thing that may or may not fit intothis discussion is a concept that was mentioned by an executive of the transportation company I worked for.

 

He said -- You don't have to sell nor provide quality to make money. You have to sell and provide the "perception of quality".

 

In applying that concept to the cruising industry, think about the price structure of the different types of cabins, the specialty restaurants, and other items .

 

Is the Garden Villa on NCL ships really worth several thousand dollars as opposed to an inside cabin that provides the same food, ports, and transportation for much much less money.

 

Cruise lines are selling the "perception of quality" and many cruisers are buying into the concept.

 

Think about it !!!

[swedish weave]

Uh, yeah. In a general sense it probably makes sense for the industry as a whole. Not specifically for any one cruise line and not for every cruise passenger.

 

A very true statement !!!

 

Bruce Muzz' statements are made from a broad spectrum of knowledge about the industry as a whole.

 

It is easy to pick some of his statements apart with detailed incidents, but is is also difficult for the cruising public to see the big picture.

 

Ask yourself why some of the cruise lines that cater (or catered) to a narrow segment of the public are now under the umbrella of the larger and more successful companies. The real reason can be hidden in the books, but it is a fact that they either couldn't or chose not to stand alone.

[golfb4cruzing]

I look at this from a different perspective. A customer who demands compensation to the point of a company incurring a loss should not be encouraged to continue doing business with them.

 

They deal with thousands of people daily, and the few who are overly demanding should be discouraged.

 

I believe in the saying "All guests make the crew and the cruise line happy ! Some by coming --- Some by leaving !! "

I owned my own restaurant. Every day this older gent would order and we'd deliver. Every day, he would call and complain about the dumbest things. Finally, one day, he caught me in the right mood, and I politely suggested he try another establishment and see if they pleased him. We never heard from him again. Maybe he found happiness. I know I did.

[timetravler]

Lets face it, when the motto Customers are always right was written, that was a different time. People were kinder. We had no internet. Lying was just not done for the most part. Law suites were not done every day. People actually blamed themselves for their mistakes. No one was looking for compensation on everything that they didn't agree with. Here on cruise critic you see people behaving badly by lying, cheating, and just being mean. It's a new world and those of us who remember a more polite world are saddened by what we see today.

Edited September 14, 2014 by timetravler

[KruzeKrazy!]

timetraveler said it all... Unfortunately for too many, and an ever-increasing number, today's "Golden Rule" is "It's all about 'me'!"

[Nāmaka]

Lets face it, when the motto Customers are always right was written, that was a different time. People were kinder. We had no internet. Lying was just not done for the most part. Law suites were not done every day. People actually blamed themselves for their mistakes. No one was looking for compensation on everything that they didn't agree with. Here on cruise critic you see people behaving badly by lying, cheating, and just being mean. It's a new world and those of us who remember a more polite world are saddened by what we see today.

 

Sad, but true. :(

[DebJ14]

There is no point in compensating the long time cruiser because there will be a long line of newbies waiting to take their place. Cruise lines are making changes to attract a different sort of cruiser (ie more family friendly, different demographics) and it appears they could care less about their older, loyal, clients. They end up giving past passenger discounts, the veteran cruiser spends less on excursions, photos etc, while the eager beaver newbie spends and spends and pays more for their cabin up front since they are not past passengers.

[Loonbeam]

BTW, there's a difference between not 'wanting' a repeat passenger and determining the right amount of effort to retain a passenger. I'm sure the bean counters have some number that basically says if it costs X or less for this level of pax, give it to them, if not, let them walk, they will either find something they like better, or be back.

 

Especially with large distributed organizations, the real issue from a customer service standpoint becomes giving agents the flexibility to respond but not enough they step over the $X line. That's really hard to do, so instead most companies take a hard line. If they ask for this, yes, something else, no - which is fine in most cases, but sometimes that something else would be the right answer.

 

Let's face it, Princess has issues with training and keeping their CSRs current as it is. Can you imagine the debacle there would be if they gave them MORE flexibility to change things.

 

In the category of things we should be asking Princess to Listen to, its not flexible customer service, its get communications right, so that you don't get 4 different and usually wrong answers from 4 people. Then we can worry about situational responses.