Is HAL Overpricing Excursions

[Hlitner]

We are not going to be judgmental in this post, but rather post some facts and let the reader decide (and contribute). On our recent Oosterdam cruise we stopped over in Sydney (end of a major segment) where HAL offered multiple excursions as is typical of the line. One tour in particular, caught our eye because of the cost. It was an excursion to climb the Sydney Harbor Bridge which was priced at $595 per person. So a couple would spend about $1200 per couple for a short drive around part of Sydney (primarly the Rocks area) and the climb (a lot of fun which we personally recommend). But anyone can purchase that climb for about $225 (US Dollars) which is about the normal daytime climb price (I have adjusted the Aussie dollars to US Dollars). One could easily grab a taxi, use public transit, or even walk (if you like long walks) to the Climb Center. Once at the center (whether on a HAL tour or on your own) you will be under the direction of the climb company. Most folks reserve their own climb times online (you can do this several months in advance) but it is also possible to just walk-up and get on a climb if there is space (this is risky).

 

But the bottom line is that a couple who pays HAL $1200 can have a similar experience for less then $500 if they simply do it on their own. So do folks think that paying an extra $700 for a half day excursion is a bit too much. The reaction at a main Sydney tourist Guest Center was shock when we told them how much the cruise ship was getting for that tour. We also heard several onboard Aussies (we had more Aussies then Americans on our crossing from Vancouver/Seattle) express shock at the price.

 

What makes this particular excursion even more interesting is the fact that the tour provider is simply providing a short local driving tour plus transportation to the Climb office.

Hank

[CaveDiving]

...was an excursion to climb the Sydney Harbor Bridge which was priced at $595 per person. So a couple would spend about $1200 per couple for a short drive around part of Sydney.... But anyone can purchase that climb for about $225 (US Dollars)...

 

I agree that the HAL tour appears to be a bit overpriced. Although for most HAL tours run by independent tour companies, HAL just seems to double the tour company’s price.

 

I did the bridge climb on a cruise a few years ago and truthfully, never even considered the HAL tour (if indeed there was one at the time.) I agree it is a great adventure and was not nearly as stressful either physically or mentally as I had imagined.

 

By the way, I was feeling so great after the climb that as I happened to pass a jewelry store on the walk back to the ship, I bought Karen a nice Opal necklace pendant as a surprise, which she still happily wears on some formal nights on ships.

 

Scott & Karen

[iancal]

It is not just RCI. They are all doing it.

 

We were on an RCI Med cruise in early Nov. The excursion prices were high. We are familiar with the prices and costs in Civ. and Livorno port areas. We could have very easily done them for 50 percent or less.

 

Everyone has to earn a crust. Clearly if the demand is present, the prices will remain high. Seems to be inverse to the price of the cruise though. We have also seen what appeared to us to be some very high excursion prices on Celebrity and Carnival. The prices seem to have jumped.

Edited November 18, 2014 by iancal

[syesmar]

Hank,

You're very right! I always use the shore excursions brochure as a guide for planning before our cruises and try to see what can be done independently. While aboard, I take the printed brochure and write down what we did and for what cost. The difference is usually in the hundreds of dollars for what is usually a day of more activities on our part than what the ship offered.

 

There have been a few ports where we have done the official excursion if the port is difficult to do on our own (e.g., Salisbury/Stonehenge, Mt. Etna, Tunis/Carthage, Mostar). To be fair, I found the excursions to difficult-to-reach-on-your-own destinations to be more reasonably priced than the standard excursions. But that is the exception, not the rule.

[sammiedawg]

All cruise lines overprice their shore excursions. We stopped doing them years ago, with rare exceptions here and there. Many sights can be done independently and there is a private tour operator in every destination. On private tours we see much more for considerably less money. Private tours generally operate from cars or vans, occasionally a minibus. They get to places cruise buses cannot, especially in Europe.

The cruise lines more than double the price, sometimes they charge triple the cost.

Private tour operators are not fly by night operations as some posters contend. The small groups are also a great way to socialize with other passengers.

Edited November 18, 2014 by sammiedawg

[cruisemom42]

I can't speak to the Caribbean, but in other areas I think most shorex on all lines are probably very overpriced (and not very good!).

 

Some people like the reassurance of going with the cruise line's offering; however, doubling the price seems like a steep mark-up for what often amounts to a non-personalized, large group tour.

 

Unfortunately, it seems to be a "vicious cycle" -- more cruisers are finding that the shorex offered by the ship are overpriced and can be duplicated (using easily available resources on the internet) for much less $$ and a smaller group = better experience. Then the ships raise their prices more to compensate for fewer pax taking their shorex....and so on.

 

I have often used as an example of a crazy markup HAL's overnight tour offered on cruises to Israel. As with most things associated with cruising, in addition to the high cost of the tour, there is another hefty markup for a solo. The cost of this one overnight tour would have been MORE than the entire cost of the cruise for me.

 

As an alternative, I was able to locate an excellent private guide who shared my exact (and somewhat unusual) historical interests and who completely personalized a two-day tour based on those interests. On day one, the tour was just me -- versus 40-50 people on a bus -- and on the second day, I shared with another couple. The total cost for this wonderful experience was about 1/3 of what I would have paid for the ship tour.

[hawkeye3d]

We stopped using cruise line tours years ago unless there was no other choice, such as a change of schedule mid cruise. We find private tours more cost effective, tuned to our needs, and flexable so that more or less time can be spent at any specific locattion. We like the smaller size of the participants in private tours and the lack of busses.

 

Cruise lines now tend to try and extract every cent they can anywhere they can and it shows. Our upcomming HAL cruise includes 0 ship tours.

[VioletHorse]

The higher costs of ship sponsored shore ex are probably tied to the cruise lines requiring some kind of liability insurance to be provided by the shore ex operator.

 

If you do an independent excursion, does the operator have liability insurance?

 

We've done plenty of independent excursions, but as another poster noted, we've taken some ship shore excursions for which independent arrangements would have been impossible.

 

Alaska is different - there isn't much of a price difference for similar ship sponsored vs. independent excursions.

[sammiedawg]

Of course private tour operators are insured, how else would they be able to drive their vehicles?

We've toured with many companies recommended by Rick Steve's, either Rick or his partner vette the companies.

I have toured and done multiple transfers with a well known company in Rome, they do lots of work for CNN. Anytime there is a papal story this company is in charge of transportation for the news crews.

I toured with a marvelous tour operator out of Belfast, they do lots of work for the Northern Ireland government and they tour and transfer VIPs around. Our marvelous driver Stevie recently drove Bill Clinton around.

I toured with a native Alaskan man in Ketchikan in his school bus vehicle. We learned he was the tour guide hired to do land tours for Bill Gates 40th birthday party. Paul Allen had chartered the Crystal Symphony and a VIP group was on board celebrating the birthday. Our tour guide was proud to tell us we were riding in the same bus and hearing the same narrative he gave to the Gates group. This guide also flew up and down the Alaskan coast to tour the group in other areas.

I've had numerous private guides say they do some work for cruise lines or they have been invited to submit proposals.

[peaches from georgia]

We stopped using cruise line tours years ago unless there was no other choice, such as a change of schedule mid cruise. We find private tours more cost effective, tuned to our needs, and flexable so that more or less time can be spent at any specific locattion. We like the smaller size of the participants in private tours and the lack of busses.

 

Cruise lines now tend to try and extract every cent they can anywhere they can and it shows. Our upcomming HAL cruise includes 0 ship tours.

Those are the reasons we no longer take cruiseline tours and really only take tours now if it's a port new to us. Cruiseline tours on buses have too many pax who are slow as molasses getting on and off the bus and get 'lost' during the stop,, too many rest stops, rest stops and shopping stops that take way too long and all in all you see a lot less.

[LindaM]

The "big box" store that we use for cruises now offers Shore Excursions as well. I was completely shocked to get the information to book them, after final payment. I do not know what they are---this was for an Iceland cruise. I should have looked them up to see what was offered. The agent told me the prices were less than the cruiselines.

[VioletHorse]

Of course private tour operators are insured, how else would they be able to drive their vehicles?

 

 

 

I was referring to business liability insurance, not vehicle insurance. It would cover you outside the vehicle, as part of a tour run by the excursion operator.

 

In any case, I'd be hard pressed to to know what the vehicle insurance requirements of any country or locality were, or if insurance were even required.

[richwmn]

Of course private tour operators are insured, how else would they be able to drive their vehicles?

While everyone in the US is required by state law to have car insurance, that may not be true in other countries. In addition, their coverage might be minimal if they even have insurance.

We've toured with many companies recommended by Rick Steve's, either Rick or his partner vette the companies.

When Rick Steve, or his company, checks out a tour guide, do they include in their writeup what insurance the provider carries?

I have toured and done multiple transfers with a well known company in Rome, they do lots of work for CNN. Anytime there is a papal story this company is in charge of transportation for the news crews.

Because of the business CNN is in, most likely they carry high insurance themselves on their employees. The fact that CNN uses a particular provider says nothing about whatever insurance the provider has.

I toured with a marvelous tour operator out of Belfast, they do lots of work for the Northern Ireland government and they tour and transfer VIPs around. Our marvelous driver Stevie recently drove Bill Clinton around.

Most likely the government of Ireland requires insurance but how much and how stable is the providing company?

I toured with a native Alaskan man in Ketchikan in his school bus vehicle. We learned he was the tour guide hired to do land tours for Bill Gates 40th birthday party. Paul Allen had chartered the Crystal Symphony and a VIP group was on board celebrating the birthday. Our tour guide was proud to tell us we were riding in the same bus and hearing the same narrative he gave to the Gates group. This guide also flew up and down the Alaskan coast to tour the group in other areas.

I've had numerous private guides say they do some work for cruise lines or they have been invited to submit proposals.

While any particular private tour provider may have insurance there may be vast differences in coverages. In addition, collecting against those policies may be problematic.

 

If you are on a cruise line sold excursion and something goes wrong, the cruise line will be the "deep pocket" that is at the beginning of any law suit that may happen. As such, they would have to have insurance above and beyond what any tour provider may have.

[Susie51]

Thank you for sharing your opinions. I had never thought about the insurance aspect before.

 

Through research by contacting providers in Alaska and Hawaii, we have found tour prices to be similar and the cruise line includes transportation to the location where the tour begins. When you book tours on your own, you usually need to arrange your own transportation unless the tour company has a shuttle van.

 

After taking over 50 cruise line tours, I have never been disappointed. Once when on a shore ex, we had some delays. The ship waited for us to get back.

 

Unfortunately, making arrangements on our own has frequently not turned out well. In Amsterdam, following Fodor's tour suggestions, we missed going out to the windmills. Even though this happened over fifteen years ago, I still feel bad about it.

[BearInStPete]

I would be cautious about over-generalizing that "All" cruise lines and ship excursions are overpriced. The excursion buyer should avail themselves of all the tools to research and evaluate excursions from the cruise-line and from independents. On a recent Alaska cruise, the shore excursions offered through the ship were priced essentially the same as those you could book independently. Ship-purchased excursions do have the advantage of being managed by the Line so any deviations are automatically taken into consideration for you. There are many outstanding independents that offer full protection from deviations as well but it is another layer(s) of complexity the traveler has to manage themselves (multiple vendors, deviation policies, contact methods, etc.). Best advice is know before you go and plan accordingly, and have reasonable contingency plans should a deviation occur.

[Dave in NJ]

Over the years I've taken many HAL shore excursions, though not exclusively. Though obviously some were better than others, none was ever "poor". Twice I've been on HAL excursions that were late by more than 2 hours, one was about 3 hours - yet the ship was there waiting for us though they practically pulled up the gang plank under our feet.

 

Second thing to consider is that cruise lines need to make a reasonable return on investment to stay in business. Clearly they can't make it on the cabin fares charged - in many cases they are far less than they were 20 years ago, even in constant dollars. Due to the competitiveness of the market many cabins are probably sold at a loss over costs which have gone up dramatically, especially fuel which is probably 40 times it's cost in the past. So they make their profit, like the airlines are doing, off the non-fare add-ons; shore excursions, casino, spas, drinks, extra-cost dining, liquor, and the like.

 

No one wants to pay more for anything, yet we notice and complain about the cutbacks, often without thinking about why they come about - the industry as a whole certainly doesn't generate generous profits to the shareholders. Sometimes I don't like the cost of shore excursions but neither do I want to see yet further cutbacks in my favorite cruise line. A little off-topic here, but it's harder and harder these days to find single supplement fares less than 200%, yet I clearly understand the reason why.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Dave in NJ

[david,Mississauga]

Last year friends were on a Norwegian fjord cruise aboard the Rotterdam whilst we were were on Cunard's Queen Elizabeth. Except for the base being Rotterdam and Southampton, respectively, the ships called at all the same ports but not on the same days, which would have been interesting. Many of the excursions were identical. We compared the tours with the other couple and found that HAL was charging about 30% more than Cunard for essentially the same trips. Of course there could be some minor variations and perhaps the tour operators might be different, but in one case - the Flamsbana Railway - there is only one rail operator.

 

As has been discussed previously, there are definite benefits to booking through the cruise line even if it does cost more.

[kazu]

I would be cautious about over-generalizing that "All" cruise lines and ship excursions are overpriced. The excursion buyer should avail themselves of all the tools to research and evaluate excursions from the cruise-line and from independents. On a recent Alaska cruise, the shore excursions offered through the ship were priced essentially the same as those you could book independently. Ship-purchased excursions do have the advantage of being managed by the Line so any deviations are automatically taken into consideration for you. There are many outstanding independents that offer full protection from deviations as well but it is another layer(s) of complexity the traveler has to manage themselves (multiple vendors, deviation policies, contact methods, etc.). Best advice is know before you go and plan accordingly, and have reasonable contingency plans should a deviation occur.

 

That's a good point. For example the transfer from St. Thomas to St. John was very reasonable last time we were there. About $1 more than if you tried to do it on your own and the ferry/ship docks right there, so very convenient.

 

The price of HAL tours is not the real issue for us. If they were smaller groups or better quality, I probably wouldn't bother researching private tours.

 

Since the majority of them are not and we have had the misfortune of having some poor experiences, we have chosen not to be herded whenever possible and do private tours.

 

Insurance - yes most tour operators have liability insurance. The licensed ones that is. I always ask. We have never missed the ship or had a close call. Good operators are like good planners. They start at the furthest distance and work their way back. They have back up cars, cell phones, etc.

 

I have seen the ship wait several times for HAL tours that are late. Why are they late? Because someone decided not to come back to the meeting place or took their time to get to the bus,, etc. Because the washroom line took longer than planned and because the mandatory shopping stop had to be done even if they were running behind.

 

Our private tours are always back well before the required time.

 

It's worth it to explore all the options. HAL tours can work in some spots and be good. They also have mini buses and vans that a group can share that provide a guide and driver. Depending upon the port and the number of people in the group and the cost, it can be a viable option.

 

Each to their own. :D

[cruisemom42]

Insurance and flexibility from deviations is certainly something to consider when booking a tour. Not everyone wants to take the responsibility of sorting these things out.

 

However, in my experience it is not that difficult to find out whether one is dealing with a company that has appropriate licenses and insurance for that country. For instance, in Turkey one needs to look for an agency that is part of TURSAB; or in the UK there is the ABTA. Whether or not cruise ships go a step further is difficult to tell.

 

I have also not had any problems when dealing with agencies in other countries that do a lot of work with cruise passengers -- most do not require payment in advance and most will waive any charge if, for example, your ship is unable to make port.

 

In fact, I recently had a company in Turkey that bent over backwards to ensure that I was able to do the tour I wanted when my ship unexpectedly changed our itinerary at the last minute, swapping two port days in Turkey.

 

I am firmly convinced, after numerous cruises, that ship tours are more likely to be late arriving back because they "can" be late. Almost without exception, the reports I read on the Europe boards from folks using private tours cite the extreme care taken to ensure passengers are not late back to the ship.

[iancal]

We always do private tours. They have always been good and usually less expensive, often much less expensive.

 

The real benefit for us in not doing the ships excursions is the size of the tour. We have no desire to be on a large bus tour and have to wait for so and so who is lost or is in the process of buying that souvenir, or someone who believes that the cruise line comments about physical requirement did not really apply to them. The private tours we have take generally have 8 or less people.

 

Last time, in Ephesus four of us had a private van, driver, and tour guide for a less than the cost of the Celebrity excursion. I have no doubt that this would be the same for other cruise lines as well.

 

I am not complaining about cruise line pricing. We can take it or leave it. No doubt cruise lines have specific margin requirement in all revenue sectors of their business model.

Edited November 18, 2014 by iancal

[Scrapnana]

Last year friends were on a Norwegian fjord cruise aboard the Rotterdam whilst we were were on Cunard's Queen Elizabeth. Except for the base being Rotterdam and Southampton, respectively, the ships called at all the same ports but not on the same days, which would have been interesting. Many of the excursions were identical. We compared the tours with the other couple and found that HAL was charging about 30% more than Cunard for essentially the same trips. Of course there could be some minor variations and perhaps the tour operators might be different, but in one case - the Flamsbana Railway - there is only one rail operator.

 

HAL does seem to charge much more than Cunard. The Sydney Bridge climb excursion was $285 in March of this year on QE.

[Cruising-along]

We do a combination of ship tours and on our own. By that I mean using public transportation and totally on our own. A couple examples, in Kusadasi we took public transportation to Ephasus and had a fantastic day. It was our second time there, first time was a tour. In Provence we rented a car, another wonderful day.

 

After having one private tour in Naples with a highly respected and well-known tour company that left a sour taste in our mouths, I'm very careful now about private tours. (we were taken to a high-priced restaurant for lunch, whose owner was obviously a good buddy of our guide. His eyes shined with $$ signs :p ). Lunch was not included in the price of the tour, and it was very pricey. It was our only complaint, but it left some bad memories that we were "taken".

 

This summer we took a couple private tours in St. Petersburg and Berlin. Excellent tours!! But on the drive back to the ship at the end of our day in Berlin, there was a car fire on the freeway. Nobody could move and we sat there blocked in for over an hour, not knowing if/when we would get back to the ship, and knowing it would not wait for us. Just something to think about. Even if a private tour company has a good reputation for getting back in time, sometimes things happen that are out of their control.

[summer slope]

We've only taken ship sponsored tours. I'm not willing to have something unexpected, like the car fire, happen and have to spend more getting to the next port. Maybe I'm just looking at this with blinders on.

[cruisemom42]

We've only taken ship sponsored tours. I'm not willing to have something unexpected, like the car fire, happen and have to spend more getting to the next port. Maybe I'm just looking at this with blinders on.

 

As long as you're happy with what you are getting and are willing to pay the price, why not? Everyone should have the ability to do what works for them.

 

I'm a quick thinker on my feet and travel a lot, especially in Europe. Most times I wouldn't find it that much of a challenge catching up to the ship and generally if I am not on a ship tour I have a "Plan B" just in case.

 

On the other hand, for my relatively elderly parents, there is no way I'd want them to stress out about being left by the ship.

[DaveOKC]

Sometimes HAL's excursion desk comes up with some good options. On a recent HAL cruise to Alaska in Juneau we were offered the option to purchase tickets to the tram that runs up the mountain and is very near the ship. I think the cost was the same or maybe $1 more than at the tram. However, HAL offered the option of refunding the entire amount if we did not use the tickets, for any reason, as long as we brought them back to the shore desk prior to departure time. I liked this deal, as you never know if doing the tram is a good idea - weather, timing, etc.

 

DaveOKC