Just off 3rd trip the Oasis. Total lack of wow

[xpcdoojk]

Eliminating a mint or bathroom products, or changing the price of alcohol, does not result in cheaper prices. It affects profit margin.

 

The market price is set independently of cost. In other words, the desired market price is always the maximum that the Customer is willing to pay. Given the wide swings in the market price for the same room on the same sailing, we can easily see that the market price has little to do with cost. But, with a Masters degree in business, you already know that. In my opinion, of course.

 

Please stop inserting rational economic arguements into this emotional thread. :D:eek::cool: Cruising on RCI (or any other line) is not about reality. It is all about what people want it to be, regardless of reality. Not all ships within a single cruise line offer the same experience. I mean comparing the Majesty, my first cruise with the Oasis my last cruise on RCI, is just silly.:D

 

People who continue to support a cruise line they don't like because of a loyalty program they believe to be in decline are by definition not into rational decision making, or the loss of ship space to people who are willing (cruise after cruise, regardless if it is the same people or not) to spend vast piles of dollars that makes it possible for the people complaining to cruise in a balcony cabin for less today, with greatly inflated dollars, than 15 years ago in a tiny creaking inside cabin with dollars that were worth 40% more then.

 

Just saying

 

jc

[rolloman]

I know there are more oldies on cruises. I'm one of them, but I guarantee the younger ones spend more. That was and is my point and is all that matters in business. The oldies get on CC and brag about not spending a dime onboard.

 

So in your business model you go ahead take the 8% who in your opinion spend more and I will take what is left, which of course is the remaining 92% of the cruise population and then we will see who stays in business the longest. By the way, the average on board spending is approximately $400.00. The total average cost of taking a cruise is approximately $1600.00 per person....

[Ocean Boy]

Consistently inconsistent?

 

This made me chuckle

 

Yeah, it got me too.:D

[Ocean Boy]

I know there are more oldies on cruises. I'm one of them, but I guarantee the younger ones spend more. That was and is my point and is all that matters in business. The oldies get on CC and brag about not spending a dime onboard.

 

And hopefully their spending practices don't put them in a position where they can't continue to buy cruises for years to come or, for that matter, pay their mortgages.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ocean Boy

[Ocean Boy]

Awesome, a professional gambler.

 

Any more words of wisdom? I was just using your own references. Is there something else that you say you do that you actually don't. I can't wait... There were 47 or 50 people tortured on the last cruise, by your count.

 

I can play the game at the dining room table too. You sit next to me whinging about the horrible cruise. Politely I will nod and grumble sure, hoping that you will realize you are at the wrong table and move on. Life is too short... but no, you stay and an hour later, I am making excuses to get out of your presence when you follow me to the bathroom...

 

Just saying...

 

jc

 

A stalker...:eek:

[MadManOfBethesda]

Yes, I know, not all older people are that tight, it's just an example of what you tend to see more with older pax than younger pax, IME.

 

Yeah, you're right. It's obviously all those 60 and 70 year old passengers who post in thread after thread about using Rum Runners and discussing other ways to smuggle their alcohol on board so that they don't have to part with their money to pay for drinks. The younger pax just love to spend their cash on booze and other items while on board.

 

Just as you surmise, I'm sure it's the older pax keeping Rum Runners in business.

[William W]

We have friends who are in their 70's and go on multiple cruises every year with Royal. They are now Pinnacle members, and they do just this... brag about how little they spend. We cruised with them once, and they were in the C.L. at the stroke of 5:00 every night, slamming down free wine. They'd stay til exactly 6:00 when they'd ask for wine "to go" in a paper cup and go to their early seating dinner. They'd pour the "to go" wine into a wine glass in the dining room and nurse it as long as they could. They would take their free bottle of wine that they got as their amenity gift and stretch it out over several days for additional wine with their dinner. They went to every single C&A party just for the free drinks, and would absolutely refuse to pay for a drink any other time. They didn't spend a dime on photos or spa services or any other extras, and didn't go on excursions. They also did not go to any specialty restaurants, ever, and looked at us like we had three heads when we suggested visiting Chops one night. (They were also aghast that we did not join them in the C.L. at 5:00 every night. "But you're missing free drinks!") They used a TA that routinely gave them $50 in OBC but then they'd complain that there was nothing to spend it on, because even though it was "free money" they just couldn't bring themselves to spend it on drinks when they could get them free in the C.L. or C&A parties, and they thought everything else was overpriced, LOL. Oh, and they didn't gamble either. RC literally got the cabin fare from them and that was it.

Yes, I know, not all older people are that tight, it's just an example of what you tend to see more with older pax than younger pax, IME.

 

And what's wrong with that?

 

After all, isn't that's how they got them to where they are now? Not having to work and the need to worry about their finance while they could afford to go on multiple cruise a year? If not for these people, I'm sure cruise lines will sail with a lot more empty cabins and the cruise industry will not thrive the way it is today.

[rolloman]

And hopefully their spending practices don't put them in a position where they can't continue to buy cruises for years to come or, for that matter, pay their mortgages.

 

You forgot to add pay... for their college loan, rent owed for the living quarters in mom and dad's basement, shoes for newborn child......

[caribbean sailor]

I couldn't care less what size my toilet paper is. I am 52 years old, been cruising for 15 years (20 cruises) and have gladly traded my tuxedo for a nice shirt and vest with no tie. I have a Masters Degree in business and am not a fool. I prefer cheaper prices, and will gladly sacrifice my mint for it. Just because someone has cruised more than me doesn't make them wiser and whining is whining regardless of how many cruises you have. I just don't understand spending your vacation standing in the guest services line whining about silly stuff. This is a forum and that's my opinion. That's all.

 

Let's hope your toilet paper does not get down to two inches,you may need gloves.:D Have a great next cruise.

[cruisingagentone]

Meg

The ships built from Radiance class, Voyager class and up all were built with a CL and speciality restaurants on them.

 

What space was taken away, I don't recall any?

[nbsjcruiser]

Dropping oil prices will never, ever result in a discount on a discretionary luxury purchase.

 

 

The rest I agree with

 

You're right of course but I guess I could have worded it better if I said that the reduction in oil prices should ease the need for across the board fare hikes like we've seen. Significant hikes too. Of course the market will eventually decide who is right in all this. If they go too high, people will find other places for their money. Prices will come back down of course if that happens but it is a dangerous game. It takes forever to earn a good reputation and it can be gone so quick that its scary. Once its gone, you can't flick a switch and bring it back.

[Starry Eyes]

Meg

The ships built from Radiance class, Voyager class and up all were built with a CL and speciality restaurants on them.

 

What space was taken away, I don't recall any?

 

That you are unable to recall any space taken away from others for the benefit of loyalty members supports Meg's point; when it is to the loyalty member's advantage, the space re-allocation is not deeply troubling to you.

 

DL's have been added to Vision, Radiance and Voyager class ships. I believe all those spaces (which benefit the D, D+, PC loyalty members) were taken from public areas.

 

Though they had some originally, specialty restaurants have been added to ships during renovations. Examples I recall... Seaview cafe turning into Samba on Radiance and card rooms turning into Izumi on Navigator.

[cruisingagentone]

My point was on the Oasis class there were two places on deck 17 that could have been used for suite lounge they didn't have to take the Viking Crown

which is a beautiful lounge with beautiful views from other passengers.

[LMaxwell]

You're right of course but I guess I could have worded it better if I said that the reduction in oil prices should ease the need for across the board fare hikes like we've seen. Significant hikes too. Of course the market will eventually decide who is right in all this. If they go too high, people will find other places for their money. Prices will come back down of course if that happens but it is a dangerous game. It takes forever to earn a good reputation and it can be gone so quick that its scary. Once its gone, you can't flick a switch and bring it back.

Very well said. I think the fare hikes are in step with increased demand. Was reading a local news article the other day that PE expect 1 million more cruise passengers this year. The industry expects 22 million. It is a tricky balance and it is far easier to destroy a reputation than to rebuild it.

[Starry Eyes]

My point was on the Oasis class there were two places on deck 17 that could have been used for suite lounge they didn't have to take the Viking Crown

which is a beautiful lounge with beautiful views from other passengers.

Yes, they could have done many things with their ship. More than just a lounge, evidently they wanted to add more suites and more suite amenities, including a both a special restaurant for suite guests and a special lounge for suite guests. So they made a decision for Oasis. Now the decision to sail or not sail and the price point to do so is the customer's.

 

I always enjoy Viking Crown lounges, so, like you, I likely will miss it if I again sail on Oasis. It seems that plenty of other passengers (generally less with less Royal Caribbean experience, I suspect) do not know it exists or discover relatively late in a cruise; such a passenger barely or not at all miss the Crown.

 

The cruise line seems to hope the extra appeal to suite passengers is a worthy trade-off. If many passengers' decisions are not impacted, the corporation's revenue generating hopes may be realized. Or perhaps they are wrong: maybe many people will decline to sail Oasis in her new form, driving down prices on regular cabins by more than suite revenue gained, yielding a net revenue loss. That might happen, and people here may want to vote with their feet. For many traditional and/or older cruisers, Radiance Class may have been just about perfect; all the climbing walls and flow riders and zip lines etc on other ships may be about building a class of ships better for a different demographic. Personally, I think it is wonderful that different ships in the same fleet work for different people at different times with different companions.

[cruisingagentone]

I'm not so sure we will go on the Oasis again. I've been on it 6 times and this is the first time it felt crowded. I really don't know how many people they added but I think it was a few to many.

[iheartbda]

I did work in marketing for another type of non-essential activity. Most of the emphasis was on attracting new "blood" since they already had those that were hooked.

 

It becomes a difficult endeavor to keep the loyal ones happy while attracting the new ones. Let's face it, like it or not, the shelf life of the older demographic is going to expire and any industry needs the younger ones to, hopefully, become the ones to come back again and again. The cycle continues.;):)

[John&LaLa]

Meg

The ships built from Radiance class, Voyager class and up all were built with a CL and speciality restaurants on them.

 

What space was taken away, I don't recall any?

 

I believe the Radiance CL is now a cabin and a new CL was taken from VCL

[John&LaLa]

My point was on the Oasis class there were two places on deck 17 that could have been used for suite lounge they didn't have to take the Viking Crown

which is a beautiful lounge with beautiful views from other passengers.

 

I don't have a position one way or the other, but a lot of folks including myself seem to think the VCL is often underutilized

[MichaelCMTX]

It was mentioned on this thread that the average cruise customer is 46 years old. It was also mentioned that RCL is targeting a younger customer. One thing that stuck from my marketing classes (BBA 1991) was that it's easier to appeal to older customers by targeting young than younger customers by targeting old.

 

I don't at all get the vibe RCL is trying to get an even younger demographic, but I think they're trying for more families with kids, and travelers who aren't looking for the absolute cheapest deal. I don't buy a Cruise Line trying to maximize revenue and target 23 year olds. You market to people who have money to spend, and I wasn't exactly earning suite-booking, specialty-dining, excursion-taking, drink-buying funds at that age. At that age I'd have been trying to see how many buds you can cram in the cheapest available inside cabin so there's money to get hammered at Señor Frog's.

 

OK, in the opinion of this 46 year old...

 

I know there are more oldies on cruises. I'm one of them, but I guarantee the younger ones spend more. That was and is my point and is all that matters in business. The oldies get on CC and brag about not spending a dime onboard.

 

I wouldn't make a general statement like this but we've seen more than our fair share of older members with a high point total quite proud of how little they spend... coupled with a large number of cruises booked.

 

Ok, first of all I never said all suite pax were loyal customers; I simply challenged your assertion of fact that "most are one shot deals." Sure, there are people wo book a "once in a lifetime" trip and go on a cruise in a suite. But I'm sure there are plenty (as mentioned, I know several personally) who cruise over and over again, ALWAYS in a suite.

 

Always in a suite. Period. Actually trading e-mails today with our T/A about another in a GS. This is no "once in a lifetime" deal for us but once a year. Our point is at this age, with our job responsibilities, we can really only make the time for one a year. We go all-in, but we also book at a time of year when prices are good. I don't begrudge someone with more available time off going on 8 weeks in a balcony. That may be us in another 20-25 years. And yet even at this point we were frequently among the youngest folks... if not THE youngest... in the CL who aren't traveling with parents.

 

I'll admit that for what we spend Celebrity has some intriguing deals (if we're willing to fly to the port), and even some of the high-end lines aren't priced too terribly, though their itineraries are longer than we can be away. That's a question RCL will need to address going forward - if you want the passengers willing to pay for the Suites they want the whole goodie bag. Keeping them happy without giving away the store, or alienating the mass-market customer is a problem I'm happy not to have to solve.

[theflight74]

""He took the top off the grill and they were burned to a crisp. He then proceeded to put them on a plate and give them to me.""

 

Can I ask you what did you do then.?????

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I do agree that the Diamond Lounge is a bit of a pain but it would not spoil my cruise. We looked in twice, pretty full so we just moved on and enjoyed the ship.

[waterbug123]

Yeah, you're right. It's obviously all those 60 and 70 year old passengers who post in thread after thread about using Rum Runners and discussing other ways to smuggle their alcohol on board so that they don't have to part with their money to pay for drinks. The younger pax just love to spend their cash on booze and other items while on board.

 

Just as you surmise, I'm sure it's the older pax keeping Rum Runners in business.

 

Read my post again. I never said ALL older pax limit onboard spending. I simply gave an example in response to someone mentioning some people who brag about how little they spend on board.

 

And what's wrong with that?

 

 

Again, I simply gave an example in response to someone mentioning people bragging about their limited onboard spending. Although it did get tiring when they kept expressing shock that we ::gasp:: were going to skip the whatever C&A party or the C.L. that night and not get our FREE DRINKS!!! LOL

[waterbug123]

Meg

The ships built from Radiance class, Voyager class and up all were built with a CL and speciality restaurants on them.

 

What space was taken away, I don't recall any?

 

 

Yes, and the Vision class was NOT built with these things; they were added later. As were additional specialty restaurants to those that were built with some to start with. And none of the ships you mentioned were built with a diamond lounge that I recall, just a concierge lounge. The diamond lounges were added later. I don't have side by side copies of old and new deck plans in front of me, but with the exception of Enchantment which was stretched, none of the ships has had additional space added; new venues were carved out of the existing space.... meaning space that used to be available for all in some capacity, became limited to those who had more status or were willing to fork over extra money.

[waterbug123]

My point was on the Oasis class there were two places on deck 17 that could have been used for suite lounge they didn't have to take the Viking Crown

which is a beautiful lounge with beautiful views from other passengers.

 

Had they chosen the spots YOU prefer for the suite lounge, I'd be willing to be that someone else would be upset that that particular space had been taken, and would argue that they should have taken a space the VCL.

 

There is no way Royal can make a change and please everyone. If you don't like the changes and consider them deal breakers, move on to another line.

[John&LaLa]

Yes, and the Vision class was NOT built with these things; they were added later. As were additional specialty restaurants to those that were built with some to start with. And none of the ships you mentioned were built with a diamond lounge that I recall, just a concierge lounge. The diamond lounges were added later. I don't have side by side copies of old and new deck plans in front of me, but with the exception of Enchantment which was stretched, none of the ships has had additional space added; new venues were carved out of the existing space.... meaning space that used to be available for all in some capacity, became limited to those who had more status or were willing to fork over extra money.

 

What was the upper level of VCL on Enchantment prior to being a DL