Crew interactions after auto tipping started

[ellieanne]

If my additional cash tips above auto charges goes to a pool and not the recipient I hand it to that only discourages me from that practice as its not doing anything to recognize a job well done. When I hand someone cash it's for them, not a pool.

 

In many land-based restaurants, tips go to a pool, not to the individual. I really don't see how this is any different. And with the pool people who do work that you never see get the benefit. Are you saying that the people who do the laundry, or clean the decks, arrange the deck chairs or cook the food don't deserve a share of the tips?

[Randyk47]

I have no indication or even slightest hint that tips above and beyond the HSC have to be pooled. I think there has been speculation that small groups, like two or three bar wait staff, might have an informal agreement to pool and share tips. Of course they're not subject to the turn in of tips because of removal of the HSC and therefore run under a different set of rules. Off the top of my head I don't remember the details or supposed cause for that speculation and if it was cabin, bar, or dining room staff.

[kazu]

Removing the HSC shouldn't show any noticeable decline in service for anyone who has removed the auto-tip. If they had removed it their service should have already been so terrible it couldn't get any worse. If it wasn't that bad they were just cheapskates. :eek:

 

I must disagree with you. Your logic is a fallacy. HAL gives it's clientele options. It's rather rude to state anyone using an option than what you use is a cheapskate.

 

I also strongly believe the reason for reduced service levels fleetwide is because of auto tips.

 

I would agree it is easiest to leave the auto tips in place for all involved, and that they should be adjusted as recourse for poor service, but that is an opinion. At the end of the day it is still an option and we shouldn't be so judgmental of others

 

Sorry, but Peaches is right on. There are two reasons to remove the HSC - one, horrific service and two, you don't want to pay it.

 

the cost of the HSC/tip/service charge/whatever you want to call it is clearly laid out before you book a cruise.

 

It's part of the cost of cruising IMO simple as that.

 

The 'extra tip ' has to be extra or else it is fruitless as it has to be turned in to the pool and yes, that is a confirmed fact.

[LMaxwell]

In many land-based restaurants, tips go to a pool, not to the individual. I really don't see how this is any different. And with the pool people who do work that you never see get the benefit. Are you saying that the people who do the laundry, or clean the decks, arrange the deck chairs or cook the food don't deserve a share of the tips?

re read my comments. When I tip above the auto amount in cash directly to someone I intend it for them to keep. Why is that money being pooled at all?

 

I know behind the scenes people share in the auto pool. Of course they should be paid for their work. But let's call a spade a spade here. These hard workers should not rely on tips. I can't think of another industry where non guest facing laborers need to rely on tips. It's absurd for a laundry guy to be forced to rely on a tip. That work should be paid a going rate by the employer. Of course I feel every worker on a ship should be paid fairly.

 

Land based restaurants do NOT pool tips. They may have servers that tip out bar staff and bus staff, but servers absolutely do not pool their individual tips with each other. That would discourage good service.

Edited February 9, 2015 by LMaxwell

[kazu]

I have no indication or even slightest hint that tips above and beyond the HSC have to be pooled. I think there has been speculation that small groups, like two or three bar wait staff, might have an informal agreement to pool and share tips. Of course they're not subject to the turn in of tips because of removal of the HSC and therefore run under a different set of rules. Off the top of my head I don't remember the details or supposed cause for that speculation and if it was cabin, bar, or dining room staff.

 

 

 

they are not pooled except in a couple of exceptional circumstances. as long as HSC is kept in place, the stewards - cabin and dining room keep the tips.

 

The bar staff do have a type of pool but the additional tips are theirs to keep I believe.

 

Informal agreements of course are their own business.

[kazu]

re read my comments. When I tip above the auto amount in cash directly to someone I intend it for them to keep. Why is that money being pooled at all?

 

I know behind the scenes people share in the auto pool. Of course they should be paid for their work. But let's call a spade a spade here. These hard workers should not rely on tips. I can't think of another industry where non guest facing laborers need to rely on tips. It's absurd for a laundry guy to be forced to rely on a tip. That work should be paid a going rate by the employer. Of course I feel every worker on a ship should be paid fairly.

Land based restaurants do NOT pool tips. They may have servers that tip out bar staff and bus staff, but servers absolutely do not pool their individual tips with each other. That would discourage good service.

 

bolding is mine and I'm sorry but have you worked in a land based restaurant? At resorts, they always take a portion of your tips - those that stay til the end share - those that leave early don't. Why? because it is a gruelling job. sorry, hate to post again, but tips are indeed shared at land based restaurants in many scenarios. this is only one.

 

What you don't know, doesn't hurt you.:D;)

[CowPrincess]

>SNIP<

 

Land based restaurants do NOT pool tips. They may have servers that tip out bar staff and bus staff, but servers absolutely do not pool their individual tips with each other. That would discourage good service.

 

That may be your experience but it is not everyone's experience. Several of my friends have kids who work in various capacities in the restaurant industry, and some of them have pooled tips.

[LMaxwell]

they are not pooled except in a couple of exceptional circumstances. as long as HSC is kept in place, the stewards - cabin and dining room keep the tips.

 

If you leave your auto tips in place and hand your steward $50 cash extra but your neighbor removes HSC and totally stiffs the steward, where does that 50 go?

 

But to get back on topic. Yes I feel that service has become impersonal and less efficient since the introduction of auto tips and I don't think it is a coincidence. I don't think the staff are lazy. I think there are less of them and it is done by management purposely to control costs. Less employees to train, house, feed, and pay. The remaining fewer staff are run ragged but since there are fewer of them presumably they earn a larger individual tip as long as their tip out to behind the scenes staff isn't exorbitant and enough ppl leave auto tips on

 

Before HSC did anyone ever send a tip to the deck cleaners or towel washing staff???

[Randyk47]

If you leave your auto tips in place and hand your steward $50 cash extra but your neighbor removes HSC and totally stiffs the steward, where does that 50 go?

 

The steward gets to keep the $50.

[LMaxwell]

bolding is mine and I'm sorry but have you worked in a land based restaurant? At resorts, they always take a portion of your tips - those that stay til the end share - those that leave early don't. Why? because it is a gruelling job. sorry, hate to post again, but tips are indeed shared at land based restaurants in many scenarios. this is only one.

 

What you don't know, doesn't hurt you.:D;)

Yes I have worked in restaurants. I didn't mention a resort. The situation you described is not the industry norm. Go out to any restaurant in your hometown and servers are NOT pooling tips. Tip out to bar and bus? Maybe. But server pooling no way.

[LMaxwell]

The steward gets to keep the $50.

Good. As it should be

[Wakepatrol]

Reading these threads, makes it so easy to pick out the ones that remove the tips.

[ellieanne]

Reading these threads, makes it so easy to pick out the ones that remove the tips.

 

Only if you have no problems making assumptions about people based on comments on a basically anonymous message board.

[cavecreekguy]

Reading these threads, makes it so easy to pick out the ones that remove the tips.

 

I think that continuing to refer to it as "tips" makes it acceptable to remove it. I prefer to think of it as just part of the cost of the cruise.

[The-Inside-Cabin]

Let me pull this back on topic before we duplicate all the other tipping threads here.

 

Summary.....most feel there has been less meaningful interaction since auto-tips were introduced but most ascribe this to reduced crew manning instead of crew attitude.

 

The other theory is that since tips are on auto pilot they don't have to try and impress as much as they used to, and while they still work hard, they don't see increased customer schmoozing, on average, translate into higher tips.

 

The control group may be bar/casino/spa staff. Their tip structure hasn't changed. Have we seen less interaction from the those groups?

Edited February 9, 2015 by Pete and Judy

[legalslave]

We tipped back in the old days. We pay the daily service fee and tip extra now. We haven't noticed any difference in the service between then and now.

 

Diane

[GUT2407]

I think crew are busier than they used to be, but some are just more friendly than others one of the funnest interactions we ever had on a cruise was with someone who really knew he wasn't going to get a tip from me he was a sommelier and we don't drink so his chances were slim but every night he'd stop by for a bit of a chat.

[take us away]

We have sailed before and after the HSC charges on the account. We have seen a decrease in service but that is more than likely due to fewer staff. What we have NOT seen is decrease in level of interaction with the crew. We have found that when they are treated in a friendly manner they respond in kind, especially on the longer cruises. We have all seen the less than friendly passengers treat them like - ok - I'll be blunt - slaves - such as the able-bodied lady on our last cruise who screamed 'boy, boy, I need more water right now' in the Lido (and her glass was not empty). Can we die of embarrassment now. Have had table mates who basically ignore the staff, rarely say thank you when served and rarely had any interactions except to place their order. Others chat, ask about home towns, families and often get magic tricks, etc as an extra. Seems like the staff are very tuned to their passengers and will not attempt interactions with these types of passengers.

[HokiePoq]

Interesting question. It does seem that longer interaction happened back in the day but I may have also been abit more interesting then as well :D. I do think that most mid priced cruise lines have cut back on staff and this has also affected the amount of time for interaction. I did tip when auto tipping was not available and still tip extra with an envelope when I feel it is appropriate.

 

I think this is the main thing...more tables assigned to waiters, more cabins for stewards...not just on one line but on all of them we use. Only line I can really compare on this is Celebrity as they were the only one still using the envelopes when we started cruising. Just got off and found the service still good and our waiter very friendly. The first waiter did try to stuff us to the gills...kind of glad not to have that happen again. We also tip extra to the wait staff, stewards, and bar staff. Had the beverage package on just completed cruise. We've always tipped a little extra at the time per bill on that but this time tipped more generously to those who remembered our names and what we preferred. It wasn't everyone. Not sure how tips get handled for beverage packages on the lines but I'm sure there are threads somewhere about that.

[Randyk47]

The control group may be bar/casino/spa staff. Their tip structure hasn't changed. Have we seen less interaction from the those groups?

 

Actually I'd separate the bar staff from the casino and spa staffs. The casino and spa employees are contract employees and have been for our 20 years of cruising. The HAL bar staff tip structure did change when HAL instituted the 15% surcharge which as I recall happened at the same time they went to the HSC. We are in the group that think this has gradually led to a degradation in the bar service level which is further complicated by concurrent staff reductions.

[LMaxwell]

Reading these threads, makes it so easy to pick out the ones that remove the tips.

I can't pick em out. No one has said they remove their auto charges. How are you picking? Darts? Names in a hat?

[freestyling]

This answer is about tipping in general and not simply the Pinnacle.

 

I think their fear/shock is that when you give cash that you are going to take off auto tips and they will then have to explain to their boss that you weren't really dissatisfied.

 

When I tip extra, I always mention that I am leaving auto tips ON and this is for above and beyond. I don't know if that is necessary or helps. I may start adding a short note so they don't think I am going to stiff the HSC.

 

We also include any additional tips in a thank-you note but have never thought that the crew may think our auto-tips were turned off :eek:.

[babyher]

Ditto.

 

We used to call the last night of HAL cruises 'musical bars'. People who had gone to one bar the whole cruise suddenly felt the urge to go to another one on last night. That urge, of course, was to not face the crew there who they were stiffing. We always went to Ocean Bar and last night of most cruises, we didn't recognize but a few faces of those who came with envelopes to thank the crew. :rolleyes:

 

What you remember about the MDR last night is exactly what I remember. How many people wouldn't even come to dinner and if they did, they ran out before the stewards returned to their stations. :rolleyes: :eek: I was awful!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

And I bet those people think they are better than others because they follow the dress cod, and would never dream of hogging a chair or smuggling liquor *LOL*

Edited February 9, 2015 by babyher

[Randyk47]

We also include any additional tips in a thank-you note but have never thought that the crew may think our auto-tips were turned off :eek:.

 

Since the staff is told who removed or reduced the HSC I don't think it's an issue. Admittedly it becomes more complicated to get that information out to say the dining room staff, especially for passengers not in fixed seating, so I don't know how well works for them.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Randyk47

[summersigh]

We always frequent the same couple of bars in the evening and of course run into the staff we've gotten to know in them at various daytime watering holes. :D

 

We get tickled to see the look on their faces when we show those who've taken such good care of us our "green appreciation" on the last night. It's worth the extra "green" to watch.:D

 

We also look forward to eating in the MDR the last night for one last night of pampering by that staff. We slip them our appreciation $$ as we say "Good Bye" being sure that they know we've left the auto tips in place.