Gratuities

[ColoradoGurl]

I also am going to take great exception and offence at your generalisation of my fellow countrymen. I have never said I won't or don't tip. We always pre-pay and add extra where I deem appropriate.

 

If you want to trade generalisations, then I have one for you. Those from the US who spend hours in the CL or DL taking their free beverages from the servers there but who do NOT tip. Click their fingers yes, shout their orders yes, but any subtle handing over of a bill, no. OK, I bet you'll defend them by saying they'll tip on the last evening. mmm, strange that they are nowhere to be seen on the last evening in the lounge, whereas I'm there to tip the servers and concierge (in addition to what I've given them each night and what I've clearly seen boorish demanding and loud Americans NOT doing).

 

Oh they have better things to do have they? Funny, they've kept the same routine all week except for the last evening isn't it? Well it's great we have the place to ourselves and I have had it confirmed from the servers and concierge that the regulars have not been in all night, strange that isn't? And we're normally the last in as we only go for the last 1 hour at most.

 

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.:D

 

Nope I don't defend them either. I can understand somewhat how people who don't have a lot of discretionary money are making a huge deal out of $1.50 a day because they are close to breaking their bank account to take the vacation in the first place, but it is far worse to see people who have plenty of extra cash who complain about the size of their "tiny" grand suite with only 1 bath tub and a golden shower head, not tipping extra, or not tipping at all. As I said, just as there are Brits who tip, there are Americans who don't, and if you want my opinion, I think they're both bad.

 

PS- where is this glass house of mine you speak of? I always tip, and I always tip extra. Always. In fact one time I went somewhere and ran out of cash and actually went home and mailed the service person cash because I didn't have it at the time to hand her. Nobody has ever accused me of being a bad tipper and they never will because if I can't afford to tip, I won't go out. And if I was getting a free drink, I would tip more than normal, just as I do if I'm using a coupon somewhere.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[LMaxwell]

Nope I don't defend them either. I can understand somewhat how people who don't have a lot of discretionary money are making a huge deal out of $1.50 a day because they are close to breaking their bank account to take the vacation in the first place, but it is far worse to see people who have plenty of extra cash who complain about the size of their "tiny" grand suite with only 1 bath tub and a golden shower head, not tipping extra, or not tipping at all. As I said, just as there are Brits who tip, there are Americans who don't, and if you want my opinion, I think they're both bad.

 

This is NOT about $1.50 a day. This is about that the company should pay a higher guaranteed salary to their workers. Not just give them a larger share of a tip which they may or may not get as it is dependent on drinks actually being sold (which no one can guarantee). It costs RCI nothing and the workers may or may not actually be any better off because of it. That's the most simple way to explain it and if you don't get that you never, ever will.

 

Maybe RCI will put more drink servers back now that they are mandating a 20% increase in a service gratuity and services will improve? Wishful thinking.

[peteukmcr]

PS- where is this glass house of mine you speak of?

Seems to be right there in the USA. You throw stones at us Brits but yet many of your countrymen behave in exactly same way you describe, so as a generalisation, IMHO you live in a glass house.

[ColoradoGurl]

This is NOT about $1.50 a day. This is about that the company should pay a higher guaranteed salary to their workers. Not just give them a larger share of a tip which they may or may not get as it is dependent on drinks actually being sold (which no one can guarantee). It costs RCI nothing and the workers may or may not actually be any better off because of it. That's the most simple way to explain it and if you don't get that you never, ever will.

 

Maybe RCI will put more drink servers back now that they are mandating a 20% increase in a service gratuity and services will improve? Wishful thinking.

 

You make a great point and I totally understand and can relate to that frustration. The cruise line, in my opinion, which carries no merit really, haha, is trying to keep cruise prices lower in order to attract more people, but they really should just increase the fares and pay the employees a base salary (as I mentioned in a previous post- I have been told by employees that they do not get a salary at all, and are completely dependent upon tips). Or, the cruise line should call the "tips" a "service fee" or something like that, thereby removing the insinuation that they are optional, because really, they are only optional to the cruise line, who could care less because it costs them nothing. I think that rather than taking a stance against tipping by removing tips or getting angry that the fee is rising, people should write letters or do something that might somehow get noticed by the cruise lines that threatens their public relations. It's really the only way they will ever care or make changes, and frankly I think it will be difficult to do so.

[ColoradoGurl]

Seems to be right there in the USA. You throw stones at us Brits but yet many of your countrymen behave in exactly same way you describe, so as a generalisation, IMHO you live in a glass house.

 

Gotcha- well then in that, yes there is truth, as an american I was throwing stones. But I also stand behind my statement that as far as the posts on cruise critic are concerned, it has been mostly the Brits who have taken the stance that people should remove their tips at the service desk after getting on board etc. I also admitted it was a generalization and based only on what I've read and understand in your culture to be the norm and the most common practice amongst Brits. That does not mean all Brits are that way, just as it doesn't mean all Americans are great tippers, believe me, I know they are not. But culturally, we are taught to tip and accept that policy, whereas your culture is not. Yes it was a generalization, but it was based on those "facts." Cruise critic and trip advisor are probably small sample sizes to be making overall judgements though I guess, and I'm sorry to have offended you, but it is a topic of debate and that was (and is) my experience and therefore the stance I take. I appreciate that you do understand and accept the culture of

Tipping though, since the employees on the cruise ships are really getting screwed by their employers.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[LMaxwell]

You make a great point and I totally understand and can relate to that frustration. The cruise line, in my opinion, which carries no merit really, haha, is trying to keep cruise prices lower in order to attract more people, but they really should just increase the fares and pay the employees a base salary (as I mentioned in a previous post- I have been told by employees that they do not get a salary at all, and are completely dependent upon tips). Or, the cruise line should call the "tips" a "service fee" or something like that, thereby removing the insinuation that they are optional, because really, they are only optional to the cruise line, who could care less because it costs them nothing. I think that rather than taking a stance against tipping by removing tips or getting angry that the fee is rising, people should write letters or do something that might somehow get noticed by the cruise lines that threatens their public relations. It's really the only way they will ever care or make changes, and frankly I think it will be difficult to do so.

 

You do have a much better understanding of the situation than what I had originally thought based on your prior posts.

 

Like I've said, they would flag the ships on Mars if they had even more lenient labor laws than the Bahamas. All RCI ships used to be flagged in Norway (and have Norwegian Maritime staff SOLELY) but they moved away from that to have more lax labor laws.

 

I don't remove tips. And I'm not about to start either as a means of penalizing or protesting. (I reserve the right to tip less for lousy service. Haven't had that on a cruise, but have at restaurants and hotels) But if they are going to push through a mandatory 20% increase in a service charge, it is not unreasonable for me as a paying guest to expect 20% better service.

[mark290]

You make a great point and I totally understand and can relate to that frustration. The cruise line, in my opinion, which carries no merit really, haha, is trying to keep cruise prices lower in order to attract more people, but they really should just increase the fares and pay the employees a base salary (as I mentioned in a previous post- I have been told by employees that they do not get a salary at all, and are completely dependent upon tips). Or, the cruise line should call the "tips" a "service fee" or something like that, thereby removing the insinuation that they are optional, because really, they are only optional to the cruise line, who

 

could care less

 

because it costs them nothing. I think that rather than taking a stance against tipping by removing tips or getting angry that the fee is rising, people should write letters or do something that might somehow get noticed by the cruise lines that threatens their public relations. It's really the only way they will ever care or make changes, and frankly I think it will be difficult to do so.

 

I believe you mean couldn't care less. A phrase that, ironically, began in Britain

but gets mangled by many in the US.

[ColoradoGurl]

You do have a much better understanding of the situation than what I had originally thought based on your prior posts.

 

Like I've said, they would flag the ships on Mars if they had even more lenient labor laws than the Bahamas. All RCI ships used to be flagged in Norway (and have Norwegian Maritime staff SOLELY) but they moved away from that to have more lax labor laws.

 

I don't remove tips. And I'm not about to start either as a means of penalizing or protesting. (I reserve the right to tip less for lousy service. Haven't had that on a cruise, but have at restaurants and hotels) But if they are going to push through a mandatory 20% increase in a service charge, it is not unreasonable for me as a paying guest to expect 20% better service.

 

I agree! I read that post by you about the flags earlier and meant to reply to it. Royal Caribbean would take their business to wherever allows them the most relaxed labor (and probably tax) laws. It's greedy as a company to do so; cutting corners and increasing fees and costs to passengers who aren't getting an equitable increase in service amenities. At some point, we're all somewhat guilty of enabling them to do this though, because we continue to cruise and pay them money. Something really should be done to bring to light the sneaky and somewhat morally wrong things the cruise line does in order to turn a profit. I will say though, that we are all still getting a deal from an economic perspective- if we factored in the cost of operating the ship, the maintenance and gas and food and employees etc, even after being nickeled and dimed, we aren't paying for the "true" cost of our stay. For me, $150 per night (I know that's on the cheap end) per person for cruise fare, considering all the costs and benefits I receive, is a really cheap price to pay. I pay more than that for a night in a hotel room and they don't take me anywhere, lol.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[ColoradoGurl]

I believe you mean couldn't care less. A phrase that, ironically, began in Britain

but gets mangled by many in the US.

 

Lol...splitting hairs. I never claimed to be an English major. But if you're trying to point out that the British are more proper in their speech, I'll give you that one ;)

Edited February 11, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[yogimax]

It's greedy as a company to do so; cutting corners and increasing fees and costs to passengers who aren't getting an equitable increase in service amenities.

 

RCCL is not a charity. It is a publicly owned corporation whose goal is to maximize profit for their owners (shareholders).

 

Many of those owners post here on Cruise Critic and have been able to take even more cruises because of the profit they have made on their RCL stock.

 

Ultimately, it will be up to the cruising public to decide if they want to continue to cruise on RCCL if they perceive their value to be diminishing.

 

In my case, I am very happy with the product I receive and think RCCL's loyalty program is the best in the business!

[ColoradoGurl]

RCCL is not a charity. It is a publicly owned corporation whose goal is to maximize profit for their owners (shareholders).

 

Many of those owners post here on Cruise Critic and have been able to take even more cruises because of the profit they have made on their RCL stock.

 

Ultimately, it will be up to the cruising public to decide if they want to continue to cruise on RCCL if they perceive their value to be diminishing.

 

In my case, I am very happy with the product I receive and think RCCL's loyalty program is the best in the business!

 

Yes, as a publicly traded company that does create more "problems" from a consumer perspective because their first priority is the shareholders, the second is their customers. I also think I'm getting a good deal, a great deal really. Any other land vacation I've taken has cost me FAR more money. And when taking into consideration all of the real costs involved in my stay- the gas and maintenance and food and amenities, I'm paying far less than it costs to have me on board. But employee wages are likely the biggest expense for the cruise line and that's where they're hoping/expecting customers to supplement that cost. By doing so it makes the shareholders happier and it brings more people on board who might otherwise view the cost of the trip as too expensive. As all things, I think customers as a whole prefer when a company just gives you the cost up front instead of making you feel nickel and dimed after the fact. It's just like the airline industry, charging extras for seats and bags. On one hand it's nice to avoid the cost if you don't utilize the amenity (travel with no bags or sit in the back), but really they should just charge the flat fee up front.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[yogimax]

As all things, I think customers as a whole prefer when a company just gives you the cost up front instead of making you feel nickel and dimed after the fact. It's just like the airline industry, charging extras for seats and bags. On one hand it's nice to avoid the cost if you don't utilize the amenity (travel with no bags or sit in the back), but really they should just charge the flat fee up front.

 

I totally agree, especially when it comes to tipping. Call it a tip, service fee, whatever, but make it mandatory and add it to the cruise fare. RCCL could actually pull a marketing coup by advertising "all cruise fares include tips - no tipping required."

 

That would also put an end to the endless debate of whether to tip or not to tip and end the controversy of whether cultural norms (non tipping in many European countries) take precedence over cruising norms (tipping expected in U.S. and Canada).

[Big_G]

I totally agree, especially when it comes to tipping. Call it a tip, service fee, whatever, but make it mandatory and add it to the cruise fare. RCCL could actually pull a marketing coup by advertising "all cruise fares include tips - no tipping required."

 

That would also put an end to the endless debate of whether to tip or not to tip and end the controversy of whether cultural norms (non tipping in many European countries) take precedence over cruising norms (tipping expected in U.S. and Canada).

Completely agree.

[Ocean Boy]

I totally agree, especially when it comes to tipping. Call it a tip, service fee, whatever, but make it mandatory and add it to the cruise fare. RCCL could actually pull a marketing coup by advertising "all cruise fares include tips - no tipping required."

 

That would also put an end to the endless debate of whether to tip or not to tip and end the controversy of whether cultural norms (non tipping in many European countries) take precedence over cruising norms (tipping expected in U.S. and Canada).

 

There will never be an end to it. As soon as gratuities become an all inclusive service fee all we will read about is how people should tip the staff on top of the service fee because they are hard working, etc.......... It will NEVER end.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ocean Boy

[FLACRUISER99]

I totally agree, especially when it comes to tipping. Call it a tip, service fee, whatever, but make it mandatory and add it to the cruise fare. RCCL could actually pull a marketing coup by advertising "all cruise fares include tips - no tipping required."

 

That would also put an end to the endless debate of whether to tip or not to tip and end the controversy of whether cultural norms (non tipping in many European countries) take precedence over cruising norms (tipping expected in U.S. and Canada).

HAL tried that and guess what, it didn't work.I am 100% satisfied with the present system. It's not broken so why fix it. Edited February 11, 2015 by FLACRUISER99

[ColoradoGurl]

I totally agree, especially when it comes to tipping. Call it a tip, service fee, whatever, but make it mandatory and add it to the cruise fare. RCCL could actually pull a marketing coup by advertising "all cruise fares include tips - no tipping required."

 

That would also put an end to the endless debate of whether to tip or not to tip and end the controversy of whether cultural norms (non tipping in many European countries) take precedence over cruising norms (tipping expected in U.S. and Canada).

 

Yes!! That's a great idea.

[The_Big_M]

Ok so previous poster is saying they are 100% paid by tips, that is not what our waiters told us. Plus its does not seem to add up for me.

6000 guess on Oasis class $12/7day is $504,000 divide that up by 1600 guest employees that $315/week. If they are working 60 hours a week they are only getting what $5/hour.

 

Not all employees are paid by tip e.g. your figure above includes the captain, cruise director and so on who are definitely not part of the tipping pool!

 

The gratuities pretty much only cover room and dining attendants and their hierarchy e.g. maitre d'.

 

Separate services get paid by the service e.g. bar and spa attendants.

[Semi Retired]

Gratuities are added on every drink bill, so I don't add something on the "tip" line. So, to have gratuities on the prepaid drink package would be understandable...no matter what percentage. (glad we don't drink)

As for the service gratuities, we go to the front desk when boarding and ask for it to not be added on each day , (they show it as added, then subtracted each day) as we pay our gratuities at our discretion on the last day of the cruise. This doesn't mean we "cheap out", just that we give what is fair for each service person we had...whether it be more or less of the standard amount. We have done this on Royal Caribbean & Princess. Holland America wouldn't let us do it this way. We had to go to front desk on last day of cruise and have it all reversed and then they gave us tip envelopes.

[ColoradoGurl]

Gratuities are added on every drink bill, so I don't add something on the "tip" line. So, to have gratuities on the prepaid drink package would be understandable...no matter what percentage. (glad we don't drink)

As for the service gratuities, we go to the front desk when boarding and ask for it to not be added on each day , (they show it as added, then subtracted each day) as we pay our gratuities at our discretion on the last day of the cruise. This doesn't mean we "cheap out", just that we give what is fair for each service person we had...whether it be more or less of the standard amount. We have done this on Royal Caribbean & Princess. Holland America wouldn't let us do it this way. We had to go to front desk on last day of cruise and have it all reversed and then they gave us tip envelopes.

 

It's hard to imagine anyone removing the measley $12/day tip and then supposedly "giving what is fair" to each person,

Lol. Have you ever seen the breakdown of who gets what? Are you handing your waiters more than $4/day? If so, why not leave the tip and then give additional on top of it? My guess is you are handing out single dollar bills. You are most certainly "cheaping out."

[jakenashleysmom]

Agreed...the actual amount per day the employee receives is so miniscule, its hard to imagine anyone giving them less. As my father in law and Jimminy Cricket always said, "let your conscience be your guide".

 

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

[yogimax]

This doesn't mean we "cheap out", just that we give what is fair for each service person we had...whether it be more or less of the standard amount.

 

Just curious... you base your tipping on what you deem to be "fair" in your estimation. What determines, in your mind, what is "fair?"

 

Just curious... what do you deem to be a "fair" tip for your room steward who provides the usual excellent service?

 

Just curious... what do you deem to be a "fair" tip for your waiter and assistant waiter who provide their usual excellent service?

 

Just curious... what do you deem a "fair" tip for those who serve you at breakfast and lunch and how do you compensate them?

[3dog]

Just curious... you base your tipping on what you deem to be "fair" in your estimation. What determines, in your mind, what is "fair?"

 

Just curious... what do you deem to be a "fair" tip for your room steward who provides the usual excellent service?

 

Just curious... what do you deem to be a "fair" tip for your waiter and assistant waiter who provide their usual excellent service?

 

Just curious... what do you deem a "fair" tip for those who serve you at breakfast and lunch and how do you compensate them?

 

Interesting questions, but as "fair" is a subjective word, in some way, shape, or form, what you "deem to be fair" will be different than what someone else does. So this is just a loaded question that begs for confrontation.

[ColoradoGurl]

Interesting questions, but as "fair" is a subjective word, in some way, shape, or form, what you "deem to be fair" will be different than what someone else does. So this is just a loaded question that begs for confrontation.

 

I think they're good questions. Anyone who posts they're opinion on a topic is opening themselves up for debate and question and I think it's totally fair for them to ask what she thinks is "fair." It's a way to point out that her claim is absolutely ridiculous, and forcing her to be more truthful in what she's really doing, which is stiffing people. Claiming that $12/day for all those people who are providing her a service may be more or less than she deems "fair" automatically poses the question, what then seems "fair," simply for the service in and of itself, at it's bare minimum? Because most people who are paying those tips and NOT removing them, are deeming that "fair," while she is clearly claiming that she feels less may be fair. And she SHOULD be confronted for that, because that in an of itself is "cheaping out," which she adamantly claims she isn't doing. I'm sure she asks for the envelopes, thinking that she's fooling the desk people into thinking she's tipping, but those envelopes are ending up in the trash right next to her list of excuses and justifications for why each service person didn't meet her unreasonable expectations. I'm sorry for any service worker who ever has to demean themselves by doing anything to help people like that. I would pay $12/day for BAD service! To me, simply having those people there to do the minimum, without a smile, is fair.

Edited February 12, 2015 by ColoradoGurl

[yogimax]

Interesting questions, but as "fair" is a subjective word, in some way, shape, or form, what you "deem to be fair" will be different than what someone else does. So this is just a loaded question that begs for confrontation.

 

Not looking for confrontation... looking for an honest answer. When someone says they deliberately remove tips from their account because they want to tip what they determine to be "fair," it begs the question that they need to define what they mean by "fair."

 

In addition, think about it logically. If they believe "fairness" is more than the recommended amounts, they would allow the tips to remain and give additionally. The only logical reason to remove tips is to give less or nothing at all.

Edited February 12, 2015 by yogimax

[ColoradoGurl]

Not looking for confrontation... looking for an honest answer. When someone says they deliberately remove tips from their account because they want to tip what they determine to be "fair," it begs the question that they need to define what they mean by "fair."

 

In addition, think about it logically. If they believe "fairness" is more than the recommended amounts, they would allow the tips to remain and give additionally. The only logical reason to remove tips is to give less or nothing at all.

 

EXACTLY!!!!! The only reason to ever remove such a small tip is because she thinks a waiter (or whoever) may be worth less than $4 a day, or $3.65 or whatever. Anyone claiming to give that exact amount or more, would never waste their vacation time standing in line to remove a daily $12 tip. Hey thanks lady, for your dollar, lol. I highly doubt she even gives anyone a dollar either.