White Bay an error?

[MicCanberra]

I'm mainly thinking of tourists as regards to White Bay, especially those coming in for the day, overnight, or on B2B. Being stuck out at White Bay would be a real downer, and expensive if those people wanted to go sightseeing.

 

I don't personally have a problem with White Bay as it's very easy to get to from my place.

 

A ferry option would enhance the White bay facilities, but we know that only happens when they want it to happen.:(

[GUT2407]

A ferry option would enhance the White bay facilities, but we know that only happens when they want it to happen.:(

 

Now let's not go there again, I'm still recovering from last time :p

[Vader1111]

Hey, dreams are free :D

 

But the obvious answer is "The developers". Give them the option to build hotels and apartments at the Wooloomooloo end of Garden Island on the condition they also do the redevelopment of the cruise terminal.

That's the cheap part of the equation. Who is going to pay for building a whole new Navy base, complete with dry dock?

[OzKiwiJJ]

That's the cheap part of the equation. Who is going to pay for building a whole new Navy base, complete with dry dock?

 

The dry dock can stay where it is, along with some naval buildings to service the biggest ships.

 

The navy can take over second-hand demountable classrooms that will be surplus to requirements after the government is forced to spend a decent amount of money on public education instead of funneling it all to the private schools :D :p

Edited February 23, 2015 by OzKiwiJJ

[cruiselover53]

The streets around Garden Island are far too narrow to handle all the traffic (semis, taxis,buses and cars) that would be required,And if Clover has his woops her way how many push bikes would it take to bring in all the goods in one semi ? :rolleyes:

[OzKiwiJJ]

The streets around Garden Island are far too narrow to handle all the traffic (semis, taxis,buses and cars) that would be required,And if Clover has his woops her way how many push bikes would it take to bring in all the goods in one semi ? :rolleyes:

 

The OPT isn't much better ;)

[GUT2407]

The OPT isn't much better ;)

 

 

Don't envy the semi drivers getting in and out of either. At the rocks,last time I was there, they actually closed the street coming out of the OPT on the other side of George so trucks could go up there rather than try and turn nto and out of George Street.

[The_Big_M]

There looks like there is a lot of space at and around White Bay, if Glebe Island is also included. Might be big enough. It certainly looks it on Google Maps.

 

The Navy could keep part of Garden Island for its really big ships, and the dry dock of course.

 

I'm mainly thinking of tourists as regards to White Bay, especially those coming in for the day, overnight, or on B2B. Being stuck out at White Bay would be a real downer, and expensive if those people wanted to go sightseeing.

 

I don't personally have a problem with White Bay as it's very easy to get to from my place.

 

Any change has to have the cost v benefits weighed up.

 

With a split proposal, there are still significant costs.

 

The benefits (aside from personal preference) given the current situation I don't see.

[The_Big_M]

The streets around Garden Island are far too narrow to handle all the traffic (semis, taxis,buses and cars) that would be required,And if Clover has his woops her way how many push bikes would it take to bring in all the goods in one semi ? :rolleyes:

 

Having bikes reduces city congestion.

 

And given city congestion lately that's a good thing!

[The_Big_M]

A ferry option would enhance the White bay facilities, but we know that only happens when they want it to happen.:(

 

Funnily enough, I see that they're running ferries again today from the demolished Darling Harbour exhibition centre site, to exhibitions at the temporary exhibition centre beside White Bay.

 

Where there's a commercial imperative, there's a way...

[MicCanberra]

Having bikes reduces city congestion.

 

And given city congestion lately that's a good thing!

 

Agreed.Getting rid of all the vechicles bar those deemed absolutely necessary is a good thing.:D

Edited February 23, 2015 by MicCanberra

[MicCanberra]

Funnily enough, I see that they're running ferries again today from the demolished Darling Harbour exhibition centre site, to exhibitions at the temporary exhibition centre beside White Bay.

 

Where there's a commercial imperative, there's a way...

 

That is exactly the point. They did it for a few cruises when the OPT was having major interruptions due to work so why can't some deal be made with the Mariner by White bay that is mutually beneficial to all concerned.:D

[GUT2407]

White bay has two major problems in my opinion.

 

1. More and more cruise ships won't be able to get to it, 10 years ago 90% of ships that regularly sailed to and from Sydney could get under the bridge, at a guesstimate it may be as low as 70%, as ships get bigger that number will only drop. The OPT has limited capacity it can only handle one ship at a time, trite but true there are already odd days when ships have to anchor after embarkation and tender in or dock at the Island, with [hopefully] more cruises and [hopefully not but almost certainly] larger ships this will only increase.

 

2. The biggy Transport.

 

Public transport is a joke, to and from WB it is that simple, yes a ferry would help, but will it ever happen, I'm not so sure they are only really inetersted in a service that runs regularly.

 

Car transport is only marginally better, the roads aren't great but the big problem is parking. So far every time I've been to WB someone has driven us, but when I can't arrange that there is no parking in the area while cruising. Sure parking for drop off and pick up s pretty good, but they don't allow long term. OPT I have a range of options for parking, sure not what I'd call cheap, but I can even long term at the airport and train to CQ to do that to WB is train and shuttle or taxi.

 

Related to that is probably accommodation, I can get probably 50 hotels within walking distance of the OPT if I want to arrive the night before and a leisurely stroll to board, WB????

[MicCanberra]

On a more positive note the White Bay terminal is much better for its facilities, access and location to the CBD, than many, many, other cruise terminals around the world.:D

[GUT2407]

On a more positive note the White Bay terminal is much better for its facilities, access and location to the CBD, than many, many, other cruise terminals around the world.:D

 

Ain't that the truth and probably the 2 nd or maybe 3 rd best in Aus.

[Brisbane41]

Well, I don't think you heard anyone here advocating it. :-)

 

It's the problem with our governments being beholden to developers. You see it all the time, both before and after that, including the current state government decisions to knock down the Darling Harbour facilities, and now the Newcastle rail line.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-government-rejected-advice-on-newcastle-light-rail-opted-for-developers-preference-20150215-13fnol.html

 

All good infrastructure. All wasted taxpayer money. All to benefit developers.

 

What's wrong with developers and why is it such an evil word in politics these days?

 

The White Bay decision was made by the previous labor government. Enough said there about their levels of competence.

 

As for Newcastle rail line - have you ever been into that city. The rail line is a dumb cutting the city in half with hardly anyone using heavy rail. The line had to go as its cutting the city in half.

 

Perhaps development in that city may be good for the cruise industry if we can get more ships there.

[Brisbane41]

White bay has two major problems in my opinion.

 

1. More and more cruise ships won't be able to get to it, 10 years ago 90% of ships that regularly sailed to and from Sydney could get under the bridge, at a guesstimate it may be as low as 70%, as ships get bigger that number will only drop. The OPT has limited capacity it can only handle one ship at a time, trite but true there are already odd days when ships have to anchor after embarkation and tender in or dock at the Island, with [hopefully] more cruises and [hopefully not but almost certainly] larger ships this will only increase.

 

2. The biggy Transport.

 

Public transport is a joke, to and from WB it is that simple, yes a ferry would help, but will it ever happen, I'm not so sure they are only really inetersted in a service that runs regularly.

 

Car transport is only marginally better, the roads aren't great but the big problem is parking. So far every time I've been to WB someone has driven us, but when I can't arrange that there is no parking in the area while cruising. Sure parking for drop off and pick up s pretty good, but they don't allow long term. OPT I have a range of options for parking, sure not what I'd call cheap, but I can even long term at the airport and train to CQ to do that to WB is train and shuttle or taxi.

 

Related to that is probably accommodation, I can get probably 50 hotels within walking distance of the OPT if I want to arrive the night before and a leisurely stroll to board, WB????

 

I predict the White Bay terminal will be obsolete sooner rather than later. Cruise ships will be too large to get there.

 

There are either two possibilities. Botany Bay opens up for cruise ships with a terminal there or the life of the Sydney Harbour Bridge is reached and it is pulled down and replaced with a new one. That bridge does have a life span too.

[MicCanberra]

I predict the White Bay terminal will be obsolete sooner rather than later. Cruise ships will be too large to get there.

 

There are either two possibilities. Botany Bay opens up for cruise ships with a terminal there or the life of the Sydney Harbour Bridge is reached and it is pulled down and replaced with a new one. That bridge does have a life span too.

 

The ships around the world are getting bigger but the ships based here in Australia are not necessarily going to have issues with size for many a year. P&O have just got another two ships (Aria and Eden for November 2015) which will have no issues getting under the bridge.

 

As for the bridges life span, I would think they will remove all unnecessary traffic off the bridge and into the tunnels (except for the trains and buses) prior to removing the bridge or replacing it.

By then we may have hover boards and cars anyway.;)

[GUT2407]

What's wrong with developers and why is it such an evil word in politics these days?

 

The White Bay decision was made by the previous labor government. Enough said there about their levels of competence.

 

As for Newcastle rail line - have you ever been into that city. The rail line is a dumb cutting the city in half with hardly anyone using heavy rail. The line had to go as its cutting the city in half.

 

Perhaps development in that city may be good for the cruise industry if we can get more ships there.

 

 

The only problem with developers is that governments, of all persuasions, have given them preferential treatment at times.

 

Now as for Newcastle rail line it's removal is also cutting the city in half, more divisive issue I don't think I have ever seen, and I've lived in the area all my life and work in the Newie CBD.

[GUT2407]

I predict the White Bay terminal will be obsolete sooner rather than later. Cruise ships will be too large to get there.

 

There are either two possibilities. Botany Bay opens up for cruise ships with a terminal there or the life of the Sydney Harbour Bridge is reached and it is pulled down and replaced with a new one. That bridge does have a life span too.

 

 

I'll make a prediction right now, the Coathanger will still be there loooooong after any of us are gone. About as much chance of dismantling the bridge as there is the Eiffel Tower or the Statue of Liberty, and for pretty much the same reasons. More traffic will go other routes, new bridges and/or tunnels but the bridge will remain.

[lyndarra]

The only problem with developers is that governments, of all persuasions, have given them preferential treatment at times.

 

Now as for Newcastle rail line it's removal is also cutting the city in half, more divisive issue I don't think I have ever seen, and I've lived in the area all my life and work in the Newie CBD.

Not correct to say the city is cut in half by the rail line. The rail corridoor seperates the city CBD from the Newcastle harbour foreshore. I can see the argument for terminatng the heavy rail but it must be replaced with something that is convenient and efficient. This has not occured. The government wants to run a light rail up Hunter street (the main thoroughfare which will cause more conjestion) against expert advice (as shown by documents which have recently come to light) and has said that the existing corridor would be retained for open space. Yeh, right. And, why were local MPs caught out accepting "donations" from deveolpers?

[GUT2407]

Not correct to say the city is cut in half by the rail line. The rail corridoor seperates the city CBD from the Newcastle harbour foreshore. I can see the argument for terminatng the heavy rail but it must be replaced with something that is convenient and efficient. This has not occured. The government wants to run a light rail up Hunter street (the main thoroughfare which will cause more conjestion) against expert advice (as shown by documents which have recently come to light) and has said that the existing corridor would be retained for open space. Yeh, right. And, why were local MPs caught out accepting "donations" from deveolpers?

 

I didn't say the rail cuts the city I said it is a decisive issue. I am yet to hear a conversation on the issue that doesn't become to say the least heated.

 

Personally I cannot understand why they didn't just leave it in place, slow the trains down, remove the walls and fences to let pedestrians cross to the foreshore.

 

And if it had to be replaced by light rail use the same corridor instead of down the middle of Hunter Street which can already be a nightmare at certain times. They could even have let develops build over the line in some places if they really had to.

[Brisbane41]

Not correct to say the city is cut in half by the rail line. The rail corridoor seperates the city CBD from the Newcastle harbour foreshore. I can see the argument for terminatng the heavy rail but it must be replaced with something that is convenient and efficient. This has not occured. The government wants to run a light rail up Hunter street (the main thoroughfare which will cause more conjestion) against expert advice (as shown by documents which have recently come to light) and has said that the existing corridor would be retained for open space. Yeh, right. And, why were local MPs caught out accepting "donations" from deveolpers?

 

With four lanes of traffic up Hunter Street there is plenty of room for light rail systems. There is more of Newcastle now on the Foreshore than on the south side of the rail line. The whole city has shifted.

 

For that city to function it needs to become more like Sydney and have one way streets running in opposing directions forming a city circle. King and Hunter Streets being made one way in opposing directions is ideal.

 

The north side of that city on the foreshore is up and coming while the south side is a dump.

[GUT2407]

With four lanes of traffic up Hunter Street there is plenty of room for light rail systems. There is more of Newcastle now on the Foreshore than on the south side of the rail line. The whole city has shifted.

 

For that city to function it needs to become more like Sydney and have one way streets running in opposing directions forming a city circle. King and Hunter Streets being made one way in opposing directions is ideal.

 

The north side of that city on the foreshore is up and coming while the south side is a dump.

 

 

Four lanes up Scott street has only 2 and the mall has none.

[lyndarra]

I didn't say the rail cuts the city I said it is a decisive issue. I am yet to hear a conversation on the issue that doesn't become to say the least heated.

 

Personally I cannot understand why they didn't just leave it in place, slow the trains down, remove the walls and fences to let pedestrians cross to the foreshore.

 

And if it had to be replaced by light rail use the same corridor instead of down the middle of Hunter Street which can already be a nightmare at certain times. They could even have let develops build over the line in some places if they really had to.

 

Couldn't agree more.

Building over the line is one way to utilise the space, if they must, they do it big time in Japan

 

I would envisage something sensible using the Sydney model where I can get off at Central and get straight onto a loop service to the Quay etc.