Couple in 80s told to get off the ship!

[balf]

I can assure you that there is a huge difference between being 20 and 80 when it comes to being alone in a foreign country especially if the people of that country do not not speak the same language as you. I don't know too many 20 year olds or even 60 year olds who have difficulty hearing and must wear hearing aids and suffer from the arthritis or other age related maladies. On a cruise ship or a guided land tour, this is not a problem, but it is an altogether differnt thing being totally on your own. It was a lot easier to lug around heavy suitcases when I was younger. (I well remember how difficult it was for us to manage our suitcase when we were in France and Germany especially when I had to lug the heavy ones up a long flight of stairs in the Cologne train station.) Perhaps you need to "walk a mile in their shoes" before judging them.

 

Bob

 

Bob, thanks for that excellent post. It's worth noting that the couple were not put ashore because of "despicable behaviour" as per a previous poster, they were put ashore because of an undisclosed problem with their visa waiver (not ESTA waiver as some call it)

 

It's hard to understand why they could not be told the reason though. A bit like being charged for an unspecified crime.

 

David.

[fantasy51]

It's hard to understand why they could not be told the reason though. A bit like being charged for an unspecified crime.

 

I am being cynical here, but if they were told the reason then they may be able to dispute it and prove it was mistaken - and that could open a whole can of worms in terms of who is responsible for all that extra money it took to get home.

 

I hope their insurance covered costs, but I doubt if it would in such a case.

[Tomnorm]

Is it a coincidence that the original report was issued on April 1?

[Host Hattie]

Is it a coincidence that the original report was issued on April 1?

 

Yes, I think so, the news item looked very genuine.

[brigittetom]

[quote=BobBranst;46137186 (I well remember how difficult it was for us to manage our suitcase when we were in France and Germany especially when I had to lug the heavy ones up a long flight of stairs in the Cologne train station.)

 

Bob

 

Bob, Please say that you searched for the, usually obscure, elevator. I've never been in a train station in Germany that didn't have one.:confused:

[BlueRiband]

Bob, thanks for that excellent post. It's worth noting that the couple were not put ashore because of "despicable behaviour" as per a previous poster...

 

Oh wonderful.. a hypothetical situation is proposed and now I've supposedly concluded the couple was put off for dispicable behavior.:confused:

[BobBranst]

Bob, Please say that you searched for the, usually obscure, elevator. I've never been in a train station in Germany that didn't have one.:confused:

Yes, we saw a couple of elevators and escalators in the station, but could not find one that allowed us to get up to the correct train track within the limited time we had.

 

We had just arrived on a train from Paris and had to change trains in Cologne. Unfortunately for us, they do not post the track numbers until 15-20 prior to departure (if everything goes as it is supposed to go). We actually missed the Hamburg train which we had reservations on because the information board initally had the wrong track number. They posted the correct track number 6 minutes before it departed and it was on a different track with no direct access (that we could find). The train pulled out just as we got there. The next train was in 20 minutes. It was lug the luggage up a flight of stairs or miss another one. We made that one, but it was not one of the high speed trains like the one we should have been on.

 

This was our first (and my wife says Last) unescorted trip in Europe! :eek:

 

Bob

[brigittetom]

Bob, Ahh yes, I understand. Been there, done that. Too many times. :D

[SALAD MUNCHER]

I can assure you that there is a huge difference between being 20 and 80 when it comes to being alone in a foreign country especially if the people of that country do not not speak the same language as you. I don't know too many 20 year olds or even 60 year olds who have difficulty hearing and must wear hearing aids and suffer from the arthritis or other age related maladies. On a cruise ship or a guided land tour, this is not a problem, but it is an altogether differnt thing being totally on your own. It was a lot easier to lug around heavy suitcases when I was younger. (I well remember how difficult it was for us to manage our suitcase when we were in France and Germany especially when I had to lug the heavy ones up a long flight of stairs in the Cologne train station.) Perhaps you need to "walk a mile in their shoes" before judging them.

 

Bob

 

Bob, totally agree with you. Apart from the fact they were both in their 80s, the gentleman also had to use a wheelchair to get around! Imagine his 83 year old wife having to push this, along with looking after their luggage. Maybe this was a case of genuine mistaken identity or the couple filling in the forms incorrectly when applying for a visa, but surely in these circumstances cruise ships, like airlines, should have some duty of care. I think it would be in everyone's interest if we got the full story from Cunard giving the reasons for the incident and spelling out what they did to offer this couple assistance during this traumatic time. Better this than speculative comments and assumptions.

[Host Hattie]

I doubt that Cunard will discuss this or any similar incidents. It's probably more common than we think.

[Solent Richard]

It's unfortunate that you can't see the TV clip. If you had you would not treat it as a pinch of salt.

 

David.

 

I still can't get it, not on Safari or Chrome. It says "Sorry, this episode is still not available".

 

By the way, my reference to a 'pinch of salt' was aimed at the BBC, the broadcasting wing of the Guardian newspaper.:D:D

[Solent Richard]

I doubt that Cunard will discuss this or any similar incidents. It's probably more common than we think.

 

I'm not sure why they should. After all, they are usually damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

If there really was something in it the national press would have their say.

[Host Hattie]

I still can't get it, not on Safari or Chrome. It says "Sorry, this episode is still not available".

 

 

Unfortunately you left it too late, the episodes are only available online for a day.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Host Hattie

[bluemarble]

For those who were unable to view the news report, I have typed up this transcript from watching the video. I can't vouch for the spelling of the passengers' names, but I hope I have gotten close to the mark.

 

BBC North West Tonight – 01 April 2015

 

Presenter Roger Johnson: An elderly couple from Lancashire whose dream holiday turned into a nightmare are blaming the American immigration officials. Brian and Beryl Garnett were half way through a birthday cruise when he was told to get off the ship in Central America. Our Beccy Meehan reports.

 

Beccy: The holiday of a lifetime. Brian and Beryl Garnett decided to travel to the Panama Canal by cruise ship to celebrate Brian’s eightieth birthday. But just over two weeks into the trip U.S. Immigration phoned the ship’s captain to say Brian’s visa had been revoked.

 

Brian: I said “What’s wrong?” and he said “I can’t tell you but you must get off that ship.” And I said “What for?” He said “You’ve got to get off the ship. Are you listening to me?” And I said “Well yes but I want to know why.” He said “Because if you land in America then you will go to jail for ten days until we sort this problem out.” I said “What’s the problem?” “Can’t tell you.”

 

Beccy: Brian who uses a wheelchair and Beryl who is eighty two found themselves in Puerto Quetzal in Guatemala facing the prospect of getting home without going through the U.S. A two day journey ensued including a three and a half hour taxi ride to Guatemala City, a flight to Bogota, another flight to Heathrow and a third flight to Manchester. Then a taxi back to Farleton. All this at their own expense and with no idea why. The experience not only cut short their holiday but cost them some ten thousand pounds and left them traumatized.

 

Brian: I was a bit scared and a bit tired. I’m still tired actually.

 

Beryl: It just knocked me for six.

 

Beccy: The U.S. Embassy has said they’re unable to comment on specific cases. Beccy Meehan, BBC, North West Tonight, Farleton.

 

Regards,

John.

Edited April 3, 2015 by bluemarble

[Host Hattie]

Thanks for going to so much trouble bluemarble.

[pepperrn]

Thanks for going to so much trouble bluemarble.

I'll second that, thank you bluemarble.

[PunkiC]

Thank you for that report, bluemarble, but I must say fading it makes the whole incident seem even more mysterious. One would think that the ship's personnel would have done everything in their power to make certain that the passengers understood what was goin on and at the very least assist them with reservations.

 

Maybe they should have tried to fly through the US just to get the airline to more clearly explain the problem with their visa. Maybe contact the US Embassy in Guatemala, if there is one.

[BobBranst]

Thank you for that report, bluemarble, but I must say fading it makes the whole incident seem even more mysterious. One would think that the ship's personnel would have done everything in their power to make certain that the passengers understood what was goin on and at the very least assist them with reservations.

 

Maybe they should have tried to fly through the US just to get the airline to more clearly explain the problem with their visa. Maybe contact the US Embassy in Guatemala, if there is one.

While none of us know the reason the US government chose to deny entry, it is not surprising that the Captain or Cunard did not know the reason. I have been told on good authority that under International Maritime Law, the captain had no choice once the US government contacted the ship. The govenment does not have to tell anyone the reason why entry is being denied. I've also been told that if this is a visa problem travel insurance would not cover their expenses getting back home in most cases.

 

This should serve as a warning to us all that we should double check to make sure we have all the "paper work" completely and accurately completed before leaving on any voyage.

 

Bob

[brigittetom]

Sorry, but I view this as disgusting......on the governments part. We have a country full of people with forged or no paperwork, and people who mean harm to the US, and this is where they decide to take issue. Over a technicality?

 

They could have just as easily "red flagged" them at immigration and straightened out the paperwork then. They did, after all, quaility to to get to the US in the first place. If only the US could be so diligent in other areas.

[Glenndale]

.....

This should serve as a warning to us all that we should double check to make sure we have all the "paper work" completely and accurately completed before leaving on any voyage.

 

Bob

 

They had already been admitted to the US in Fort Lauderdale, so any problem with their paperwork should have been brought to light there.

[dthompsond1]

They had already been admitted to the US in Fort Lauderdale, so any problem with their paperwork should have been brought to light there.

 

A few years ago a friend of mine had to apply for a US visa because of a minor criminal offence when he was 16. He was going to Las Vegas to get married followed by a honeymoon in the Bahamas. A visa was granted after a visit to the US Embassy in London. Entry to the US went without a hitch. After the honeymoon in the Bahamas, he went to catch a flight to Miami for a connecting flight to the UK. However he was refused boarding because, unknown to him, his Visa was only valid for one entry and exit to

the US. He had to make alternative flight home,at his own expense, without entering he US. If this couple had a Visa then perhaps this was only valid for one entry and exit.

[david,Mississauga]

Sorry, but I view this as disgusting......on the governments part. We have a country full of people with forged or no paperwork, and people who mean harm to the US, and this is where they decide to take issue. Over a technicality?

 

They could have just as easily "red flagged" them at immigration and straightened out the paperwork then. They did, after all, quaility to to get to the US in the first place. If only the US could be so diligent in other areas.

 

Unfortunately, authority everywhere always picks on easy targets. On the Holland America forum there was some discussion last year about some seniors being given a hard time by US authorities because their essential medications were not in the proper containers. Yet we read a lot about the vast amount of illegal drugs crossing the border from Mexico. A few years ago some veterans had their poppies that were pinned to their lapels confiscated at an eastern Canadian airport. Recently, in Vancouver there was a huddle of security officers because my wife had a pair of tiny blunt-ended craft scissors in her carry-on. They finally allowed it on and on board the aeroplane we were served our meal with metal cutlery including - you can guess what I am about to say - a knife with a sharp serrated edge. You couldn't make this up:D.

[Glenndale]

A few years ago a friend of mine had to apply for a US visa because of a minor criminal offence when he was 16. He was going to Las Vegas to get married followed by a honeymoon in the Bahamas. A visa was granted after a visit to the US Embassy in London. Entry to the US went without a hitch. After the honeymoon in the Bahamas, he went to catch a flight to Miami for a connecting flight to the UK. However he was refused boarding because, unknown to him, his Visa was only valid for one entry and exit to

the US. He had to make alternative flight home,at his own expense, without entering he US. If this couple had a Visa then perhaps this was only valid for one entry and exit.

 

I can't be sure but I suspect they were travelling on the Visa Waiver program and had an ESTA.

We were on the same cruise, Southampton to LA and were not aware that anyone had been disembarked in Guatemala.

Such a dreadful way for a holiday to end whatever age you are.

[R'man]

“Because if you land in America then you will go to jail for ten days until we sort this problem out.”

 

It appears that they were not necessarily put off the ship but removed themselves voluntarily. I suspect the Garnetts took the wrong fork in that road. Given their ages and apparent frailty, it is unlikely the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement officials would have jailed them. I imagine a pair of octogenarians "put off" one of the most famous ships in the world in a foreign port supposedly on the basis of a phone call from American bureaucrats would once have been considered news. As it is, I cannot find any reference to this case anywhere else.

[brigittetom]

Unfortunately, authority everywhere always picks on easy targets. On the Holland America forum there was some discussion last year about some seniors being given a hard time by US authorities because their essential medications were not in the proper containers. Yet we read a lot about the vast amount of illegal drugs crossing the border from Mexico. A few years ago some veterans had their poppies that were pinned to their lapels confiscated at an eastern Canadian airport. Recently, in Vancouver there was a huddle of security officers because my wife had a pair of tiny blunt-ended craft scissors in her carry-on. They finally allowed it on and on board the aeroplane we were served our meal with metal cutlery including - you can guess what I am about to say - a knife with a sharp serrated edge. You couldn't make this up:D.

 

There is no longer any rhyme or reason. They did a complete body search on me last year when boarding the QM2 in Southampton. I'm beginning to think that I don't look as harmless as I imagined. :D