What would you do about "scaled back" cruise?

[hattack]

Large groups are a reality of the cruise industry and I think the Cruise Lines work very hard to find the "sweet spot" to maintain a balance to accomodate all guests...I am sure each ships CD gives their Corporate Office weekly feedback concerning the groups they deal with that week and a profile is built so a playbook is developed based upon the groups characteristics that CD's can refer to if the group books the following year or on another vessel in the fleet

 

This would be a perfect opportunity for the Cruise Critic Board Moderator Leadership to invite a Cruise Line Corporate Director (along with an experienced CD on a smaller fleet vessel who deals directly on a regular basis with the impact of a large group on an older smaller vessel) to do an online Q&A chat to answer questions on this specific topic

 

Often these types of threads appear on these boards and there is a wild speculation on the part of some posters (as illustrated by this thread), without fully understanding the entire perspective, of the hard work that goes on behind the scene between all parties to make a positive experience for all guests...the "OP" presented a well thought out and written presentation of his experiences onboard that week for that sailing, that IMHO deserves a like response from the Cruise Line, that we can all benefit from

[JennyT]

I called the Group Administration Office about the potential of a group on board my up coming cruise. They told me there were less than 30 (at that time) people in the group. They'll give out information if you call and ask.

 

Interesting. When I called yesterday, they said they couldn't tell me how big the group was on my upcoming cruise... You win!

[serendipity1499]

Interesting. When I called yesterday, they said they couldn't tell me how big the group was on my upcoming cruise... You win![/QUOTE]

 

Did you happen to ask why one person can get that info but others can't!

 

Hal is not known for consistency!:rolleyes:

[Hlitner]

The OP has posted about a situation that has been an issue in the cruise industry for many decades! We ourselves ran into an even worse situation (on then RCCL) way back in 1988 on the Sovereign of the Seas. The cruise lines have always had the attitude that they will protect the privacy (and the money) of the large groups by not readily disclosing any advance information to other passengers. In a sense their attitude is "let the other passengers be damned."

 

Since the cruise lines have zero interest informing non-group passengers the only solution (currently) is to search the internet for group cruises. There are a few web sites that have tried to correlate this info, but we have never found a good single source. But using a decent search engine (like Google) can often result in some good info. Sometimes just typing in something like "Jan 10, 2016 Eurodam cruise" (which would return info that this is the Smooth Jazz Cruise) will give you a link to a large group holding space on that cruise.

 

Personally, we have managed to avoid most group issues by booking longer (at least 14 days) cruises. For example, Celebrity has a true 14 day Caribbean cruise that will not have large groups. But if you book back-to-back 7 day cruises (such as with HAL) your risk of encountering a large group is magnified many times

 

Personally, whenever we find a large group on a cruise that we have booked we immediately cancel the booking. While some will argue that large groups are fine, we have often found that groups take over various public venues on a regular basis. We have been on HAL cruises when the Crows Nest (a favorite spot of ours) is often closed to accommodate groups. We have also witnessed groups taking over alternative restaurants for multiple nights, closing these venues to all other passengers.

 

Hank

[bernie5]

Jenny - I see that a medical seminar for anesthesiologists is scheduled to be on your cruise. In my experience, these medical groups are typically small, low-key, and unobtrusive, and do not impact the cruise negatively. Hopefully, that will be your experience as well.

 

I was part of a medical meeting on the Eurodam a couple of years ago with Northwest Anesthesia Seminars. We were maybe 50 people and met in a room early in the morning or on sea days. Certainly did not take over the ship or anything.

[GlennG]

The OP has posted about a situation that has been an issue in the cruise industry for many decades! We ourselves ran into an even worse situation (on then RCCL) way back in 1988 on the Sovereign of the Seas. The cruise lines have always had the attitude that they will protect the privacy (and the money) of the large groups by not readily disclosing any advance information to other passengers. In a sense their attitude is "let the other passengers be damned."

 

Since the cruise lines have zero interest informing non-group passengers the only solution (currently) is to search the internet for group cruises. There are a few web sites that have tried to correlate this info, but we have never found a good single source. But using a decent search engine (like Google) can often result in some good info. Sometimes just typing in something like "Jan 10, 2016 Eurodam cruise" (which would return info that this is the Smooth Jazz Cruise) will give you a link to a large group holding space on that cruise.

 

Personally, we have managed to avoid most group issues by booking longer (at least 14 days) cruises. For example, Celebrity has a true 14 day Caribbean cruise that will not have large groups. But if you book back-to-back 7 day cruises (such as with HAL) your risk of encountering a large group is magnified many times

 

Personally, whenever we find a large group on a cruise that we have booked we immediately cancel the booking. While some will argue that large groups are fine, we have often found that groups take over various public venues on a regular basis. We have been on HAL cruises when the Crows Nest (a favorite spot of ours) is often closed to accommodate groups. We have also witnessed groups taking over alternative restaurants for multiple nights, closing these venues to all other passengers.

 

Hank

 

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Hank, the OP and others for bringing this issue to the forefront. With the great information obtained from this thread, I discovered that my January cruise on the Oosterdam will have a large and exclusive jazz group aboard. Like so many other posters, I could not get information from Holland America Line. With a little research, I was able to obtain an email address for the Jazz Group charter. The response from this group was phenomenal. I got my requested information in less than 2 hours. The information from my personal perspective is not good, however. There will be between 450 to 500 people attending this "partial charter" aboard the Oosterdam. I wish that I had this information at the time of my booking. Like Hank, when I learn of large groups of people who have planned an exclusive cruise, I vote with my wallet. That is, I cancel the cruise and try to find something else. However, even at this early date, it will be difficult to change air travel, hotel accommodation, and pre-cruise tours. I'm kind of angry at HAL, as I learned from the Jazz group that they have already been given early confirmed seating in the Main Dining Room. (This is our preferred venue and time for eating dinner.) The Crowsnest has also been reserved for this large group. I need the advice from experienced CC cruisers. Should I contact HAL and communicate my misgivings and disappointment about this future cruise? Do you have suggestions for an booking on an alternate cruise line, given our past preferences for Holland America Line?

[whogo]

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Hank, the OP and others for bringing this issue to the forefront. With the great information obtained from this thread, I discovered that my January cruise on the Oosterdam will have a large and exclusive jazz group aboard. Like so many other posters, I could not get information from Holland America Line. With a little research, I was able to obtain an email address for the Jazz Group charter. The response from this group was phenomenal. I got my requested information in less than 2 hours. The information from my personal perspective is not good, however. There will be between 450 to 500 people attending this "partial charter" aboard the Oosterdam. I wish that I had this information at the time of my booking. Like Hank, when I learn of large groups of people who have planned an exclusive cruise, I vote with my wallet. That is, I cancel the cruise and try to find something else. However, even at this early date, it will be difficult to change air travel, hotel accommodation, and pre-cruise tours. I'm kind of angry at HAL, as I learned from the Jazz group that they have already been given early confirmed seating in the Main Dining Room. (This is our preferred venue and time for eating dinner.) The Crowsnest has also been reserved for this large group. I need the advice from experienced CC cruisers. Should I contact HAL and communicate my misgivings and disappointment about this future cruise? Do you have suggestions for an booking on an alternate cruise line, given our past preferences for Holland America Line?

I hope you will share this information with the roll call for this cruise.

[susiesan]

GlennG: What is the date of your cruise and where from? I'd suggest Princess as an alternative if they have a ship sailing the same date. Unless you are a jazz lover it looks like you will be on a cruise from hell. And if you do like jazz just go into the venues with the group and enjoy the music.

 

If you do change to another Carnival Corp. brand and you have change fees and costs involved I'd ask Carnival Corp to pay them for you to keep you as a customer. Tell them if they won't help you out you take your business to Celebrity. Which IMO is better than HAL anyways.

 

You have to ask HAL the question, what are you going to do for me to help me put and keep me as a customer? They won't offer anything unless you ask.

[navybankerteacher]

I was part of a medical meeting on the Eurodam a couple of years ago with Northwest Anesthesia Seminars. We were maybe 50 people and met in a room early in the morning or on sea days. Certainly did not take over the ship or anything.

 

The sort of group you describe is clearly not the problem. However, when choice spaces, such as Crows Nest and Queens Lounge are made unavailable for a number of times, and large areas of the MDR, or entire alternate venues, are periodically restricted, it reaches the point of having serious negative impact on everyone else.

 

Additionally, if the group is large (and narcissistic) enough, an offensive, almost bullying, attitude towards non-group passengers is sometimes apparent: almost as if they resent non-group members for even being there and intruding on "their group's cruise".

[GlennG]

GlennG: What is the date of your cruise and where from? I'd suggest Princess as an alternative if they have a ship sailing the same date. Unless you are a jazz lover it looks like you will be on a cruise from hell. And if you do like jazz just go into the venues with the group and enjoy the music.

 

If you do change to another Carnival Corp. brand and you have change fees and costs involved I'd ask Carnival Corp to pay them for you to keep you as a customer. Tell them if they won't help you out you take your business to Celebrity. Which IMO is better than HAL anyways.

 

You have to ask HAL the question, what are you going to do for me to help me put and keep me as a customer? They won't offer anything unless you ask.

 

Thanks, Susiesan. The cruise begins January 8th and leave from Fort Lauderdale. Thank you for taking time to provide me with some good advice.

[cruz chic]

Thanks, Susiesan. The cruise begins January 8th and leave from Fort Lauderdale. Thank you for taking time to provide me with some good advice.

 

I agree with the other poster. Princess is a good alternative.

[susiesan]

Thanks, Susiesan. The cruise begins January 8th and leave from Fort Lauderdale. Thank you for taking time to provide me with some good advice.

 

Glenn, I was on a Princess cruise in January, in a suite occupied by 3 people so a lot was paid for this cabin, around $5K for 3. I didn't realize the suite was directly over a nightclub when I booked and my TA didn't say anything about the location. After the first night of no sleep until the LOUD band stopped playing at 1:00am, I went down and spoke to customer relations in the morning about what could be done. They promised to turn down the music and not play so late. Of course, it never happened. I asked to change cabins but there were no more suites available. By day 5 of this I was at my breaking point.

 

I pointed out I had not received the premium suite experience I had paid for and asked them what were they going to do for me to keep me as a Princess customer in the future (Platinum with them). I was told to expect a call later that day with an offer of a monetary credit to apply to the ship account and payment for the cruise. First offer was $250, I told them that was unacceptable. Then it went to $500, still unacceptable. After some calm negotiation I ended up with a credit of $750 that was posted to the credit card I used to pay for the cruise. If I had not spoken up and pressed the issue I would have gotten nothing but empty apologies.

 

A strategy I use is ask for what you want done. Listen to the answer/offer, and then calmly state "I'm sorry, that is unacceptable." Don't say anymore. Let them come back with another offer. Keep repeating this one statement until you are offered what you think is fair. This is very effective if you are in front of someone and you put a smile on your face while you say this over and over and you don't move. But it will work on the phone.

 

Good luck finding another cruise. You can easily get to Miami from Ft. Lauderdale. Lots of cruises leaving from there between Jan. 8-11.

[sail7seas]

On a recent cruise, the Crows Nest was reserved every evening from 5-7 for the equivalent of 4 star mariners and above. This is were we liked to go to listen to music before our dinner. They were the normal ship's entertainers - not brought on for a group.

 

The first night I was disappointed but then others I'd met who were in that category told me not to worry about it, to come in, which I did and continued to do the other nights.

 

Here's my thoughts - cruiselines normally shut off venues on a regular basis for past passengers. Do you complain about that? Probably not. Smaller informal groups get reserved spaces too - like M&G groups.

 

If you went to a restaurant and a large part of the restaurant was booked for a party and you were still given a table and had the same food, would you complain?

 

These tour groups pay a premium of anywhere from $500- $1500 pp to be part of this tour and given access to certain venues. They usually book Alaska and the Caribbean.

 

I was on an Alaskan cruise last summer and what I remember was having a naturalist on board for the time in the glaciers. Other than that it was mostly videos and not speakers. So maybe it wasn't scaled back for the particular cruise but a change in HAL's standard set-up for the cruise - with or without a tour group.

 

 

 

This is the first I've heard of any HAL ship having a special venue for four and five star Mariners. Perhaps this was some sort of experiment? What was the benefit to the high Star Mariners to have a lounge set aside for them for two hours? Did they provide complimentary drinks?

 

On top of that, I feel it interesting to comment they omitted their four and five star Mariners who dine at 8 P.M. from cocktail hour. If we wanted to dress and go out for the evening at 5 P.M., we would not request 8 P.M. dinner. This seems like a half thought out, not well considered off the cuff means of trying to make it appear they are offering a Mariner Benefit when actually they probably are irritating more people than pleasing UNLESS there is more benefit to this reserve Crows Nest than I have understood.

 

As a Five Star Mariner, I have no interest or see anything of value being offered by closing other people out of a lounge. If there was more to this cocktail hour situation, I hope you'll share with us. :)

 

[sail7seas]

I was part of a medical meeting on the Eurodam a couple of years ago with Northwest Anesthesia Seminars. We were maybe 50 people and met in a room early in the morning or on sea days. Certainly did not take over the ship or anything.

 

A small professional group like this has no impact on anyone else on the ship. We likely wouldn't even know you were there unless we saw name badges. At most, I suspect perhaps there was a cocktail party one night for about an hour with either Silk Den or Pinnacle Bar was closed to others for that brief time?

 

None of us not a part of the group would be inconvenienced by your morning use of a meeting room. :) I think it's great you get continued Ed credits and a cruise..... ;) maybe even a tax write off? :D Sounds all good to me.

 

Edited July 17, 2015 by sail7seas

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

On a recent cruise, the Crows Nest was reserved every evening from 5-7 for the equivalent of 4 star mariners and above. This is were we liked to go to listen to music before our dinner. They were the normal ship's entertainers - not brought on for a group.

 

The first night I was disappointed but then others I'd met who were in that category told me not to worry about it, to come in, which I did and continued to do the other nights.

 

Here's my thoughts - cruiselines normally shut off venues on a regular basis for past passengers. Do you complain about that? Probably not. Smaller informal groups get reserved spaces too - like M&G groups.

 

If you went to a restaurant and a large part of the restaurant was booked for a party and you were still given a table and had the same food, would you complain?

 

These tour groups pay a premium of anywhere from $500- $1500 pp to be part of this tour and given access to certain venues. They usually book Alaska and the Caribbean.

 

I was on an Alaskan cruise last summer and what I remember was having a naturalist on board for the time in the glaciers. Other than that it was mostly videos and not speakers. So maybe it wasn't scaled back for the particular cruise but a change in HAL's standard set-up for the cruise - with or without a tour group.

 

I wonder if HAL is trying out something for their 4 and 5 star Mariners that Princess does for their Elite (and possibly Platinum - I can't remember) where there are cocktails at reduced prices and appetizers in the Skywalkers Night Club.

[sail7seas]

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Hank, the OP and others for bringing this issue to the forefront. With the great information obtained from this thread, I discovered that my January cruise on the Oosterdam will have a large and exclusive jazz group aboard. Like so many other posters, I could not get information from Holland America Line. With a little research, I was able to obtain an email address for the Jazz Group charter. The response from this group was phenomenal. I got my requested information in less than 2 hours. The information from my personal perspective is not good, however. There will be between 450 to 500 people attending this "partial charter" aboard the Oosterdam. I wish that I had this information at the time of my booking. Like Hank, when I learn of large groups of people who have planned an exclusive cruise, I vote with my wallet. That is, I cancel the cruise and try to find something else. However, even at this early date, it will be difficult to change air travel, hotel accommodation, and pre-cruise tours. I'm kind of angry at HAL, as I learned from the Jazz group that they have already been given early confirmed seating in the Main Dining Room. (This is our preferred venue and time for eating dinner.) The Crowsnest has also been reserved for this large group. I need the advice from experienced CC cruisers. Should I contact HAL and communicate my misgivings and disappointment about this future cruise? Do you have suggestions for an booking on an alternate cruise line, given our past preferences for Holland America Line?

 

 

 

I'm sorry your cruise will have such a group aboard. This isn't a partial charter; it is a large group. A ship is either chartered for a private group and no one not part of the group can sail with them and all bookings are through the group or it is a regular sailing with a large group.

 

Were it me, I definitely would contact HAL, tell them you tried unsuccessfully to get this very information from HAL directly but were denied it and ultimately learned about it on your own. I'd state my displeasure at the somewhat unethical action in refusing to tell you when directly asked about any group being aboard and then ask they pay air change fees and any other expenses you incur in order to book an alternative cruise. I'd tell them it is unacceptable to you to knowingly spend your vacation time and dollars on a cruise where you cannot dine when you wish, cannot enjoy your favorite lounge and know there will be a number of other venues closed to you.

 

Take it from there.

No way I would 'suffer in silence' on that cruise.

PLEASE let us know how you work it out if you do make attempt.

Good luck.

[susiesan]

I wonder if HAL is trying out something for their 4 and 5 star Mariners that Princess does for their Elite (and possibly Platinum - I can't remember) where there are cocktails at reduced prices and appetizers in the Skywalkers Night Club.

 

This is exactly what Princess did on my January Emerald Princess cruise. They had a sign in the doorway about reserved for Elites and Suites from 5:00 to 7:00 but no one was checking status. If you knew about this you could just walk right in act like you belong there. As I was in a suite it was fine for me. The appetizers were fabulous.

[bernie5]

A small professional group like this has no impact on anyone else on the ship. We likely wouldn't even know you were there unless we saw name badges. At most, I suspect perhaps there was a cocktail party one night for about an hour with either Silk Den or Pinnacle Bar was closed to others for that brief time?

 

None of us not a part of the group would be inconvenienced by your morning use of a meeting room. :) I think it's great you get continued Ed credits and a cruise..... ;) maybe even a tax write off? :D Sounds all good to me.

 

I did have a good time and racked up some CMEs at the same time. I will do it again most probably.

I would be upset -as the OP-if a group took over bars and venues of even worse if they acted snooty about the cruise. I would definitely complain. Several people gave great advice about contacting HAL.

I am glad this reminded me to search my Amsterdam cruise in September.

[GlennG]

I'm sorry your cruise will have such a group aboard. This isn't a partial charter; it is a large group. A ship is either chartered for a private group and no one not part of the group can sail with them and all bookings are through the group or it is a regular sailing with a large group.

 

Were it me, I definitely would contact HAL, tell them you tried unsuccessfully to get this very information from HAL directly but were denied it and ultimately learned about it on your own. I'd state my displeasure at the somewhat unethical action in refusing to tell you when directly asked about any group being aboard and then ask they pay air change fees and any other expenses you incur in order to book an alternative cruise. I'd tell them it is unacceptable to you to knowingly spend your vacation time and dollars on a cruise where you cannot dine when you wish, cannot enjoy your favorite lounge and know there will be a number of other venues closed to you.

 

Take it from there.

No way I would 'suffer in silence' on that cruise.

PLEASE let us know how you work it out if you do make attempt.

Good luck.

Let me try this, again. (I'm having difficulty responding to your message.) Here goes! First of all, thank you for correcting me on my use of terminology. There is, indeed, a difference between charters and large groups who make reservations for a particular cruise. Your information is valuable to me as I consider it to be part of my continuing education.

 

Thanks, also, for your sound advice. My personal experience with this issue indicates that Personal Cruise Consultants do not have information on large groups of people who make "group reservations" on specific sailings. This is the genesis of my problem. My PCC could not answer my questions because she didn't have access to the information.

 

I'm also taking your advice about contacting HAL about my concerns. While I don't think there will be any substantive change, I am writing a formal letter to one of the special advisers to the President. You are right about suffering in silence, so I'm in the process of making alternative arrangements for our January holiday. Making these kinds of changes is a real pain.

[Hlitner]

I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Hank, the OP and others for bringing this issue to the forefront. With the great information obtained from this thread, I discovered that my January cruise on the Oosterdam will have a large and exclusive jazz group aboard. Like so many other posters, I could not get information from Holland America Line. With a little research, I was able to obtain an email address for the Jazz Group charter. The response from this group was phenomenal. I got my requested information in less than 2 hours. The information from my personal perspective is not good, however. There will be between 450 to 500 people attending this "partial charter" aboard the Oosterdam. I wish that I had this information at the time of my booking. Like Hank, when I learn of large groups of people who have planned an exclusive cruise, I vote with my wallet. That is, I cancel the cruise and try to find something else. However, even at this early date, it will be difficult to change air travel, hotel accommodation, and pre-cruise tours. I'm kind of angry at HAL, as I learned from the Jazz group that they have already been given early confirmed seating in the Main Dining Room. (This is our preferred venue and time for eating dinner.) The Crowsnest has also been reserved for this large group. I need the advice from experienced CC cruisers. Should I contact HAL and communicate my misgivings and disappointment about this future cruise? Do you have suggestions for an booking on an alternate cruise line, given our past preferences for Holland America Line?

 

We are pleased that this has given you a "heads up." I should add that the Smooth Jazz Cruise has become somewhat of a HAL tradition (this group has their cruises on HAL every year) and it is an outstanding opportunity for those who are big fans of jazz. This group brings some amazing talent on their cruises and attracts jazz lovers from all over. But, for those who have no interest in jazz (or completely dislike this music) those Smooth Jazz cruises must be a real bummer! You are on a cruise where this large group takes over multiple public rooms (every day) for their entertainment. Personally I would love to be on a Smooth Jazz cruise, but DW would probably jump overboard (she hates jazz).

 

Hank

[HokiePoq]

I would have been very disappointed too and don't blame you at all. Please do let HAL know, and let us know what comes of it.

 

The fact that the Vista Lounge only offered the late show option-- that alone would make me unhappy, not to mention the other problems you had.

 

 

I agree. This is over the line and other cruisers were seriously shorted. The second poster seems to have had an experience where most were not affected. OP's cruise was seriously affected.

A letter is called for. If such as taking away the entertainment from others is going to happen, notification needs to be sent to other cruisers, giving them the opportunity to cancel without penalty.

[HokiePoq]

GlennG: What is the date of your cruise and where from? I'd suggest Princess as an alternative if they have a ship sailing the same date. Unless you are a jazz lover it looks like you will be on a cruise from hell. And if you do like jazz just go into the venues with the group and enjoy the music.

 

If you do change to another Carnival Corp. brand and you have change fees and costs involved I'd ask Carnival Corp to pay them for you to keep you as a customer. Tell them if they won't help you out you take your business to Celebrity. Which IMO is better than HAL anyways.

 

You have to ask HAL the question, what are you going to do for me to help me put and keep me as a customer? They won't offer anything unless you ask.

 

I am thinking that even if one loves jazz, some sort of ID will be required to enter the events that the group has paid additional fare to enter.

Being allowed to go in would be okay with me....not having the entertainment, opportunity to get the dinner seating I am accustomed to...these things are unfair to remaining passengers.

[Hlitner]

Princess does have a daily cocktail party (usually about 2 hours) for their Elites and its held in one of the larger public rooms which is closed off to the other cruisers. The cocktail party has hors d' oeuvres which vary from day to day and offer some daily cocktail specials (not a great deal). Celebrity has a 2 hour cocktail party nearly every day that is for Elites and above and they offer free cocktails and hors d'oevres. This is also held in a public venue which is closed to the other cruisers.

 

As to HAL.....well the do give us a cheap Medallion to decorate the bottom of a drawer. And once, on a 62 day Grand Cruise, they actually invited 4-5 Star Mariners to a free cocktail party. My goodness, we were so impressed that HAL gave us free cocktails one time on a two month cruise! Very generous of them.

 

Hank

[HokiePoq]

I wonder if HAL is trying out something for their 4 and 5 star Mariners that Princess does for their Elite (and possibly Platinum - I can't remember) where there are cocktails at reduced prices and appetizers in the Skywalkers Night Club.

 

 

Sounds like it. We had people tell us on RCCL that they stick with the line just because of the Diamond benefits which include such a reception.

Celebrity has something similar.

It is also far easier to become Elite on X than to get to four star Mariner. We'll be elite after our October 2016 X cruise and still be 75+ days away from four stars after more cruise days on HAL. Got NCL Platinum after only 75 days.....just saying it might be a good thing HAL is piloting better benefits.

Folks on X and RCCL are used to a venue being used for such events.

[cruz chic]

This is exactly what Princess did on my January Emerald Princess cruise. They had a sign in the doorway about reserved for Elites and Suites from 5:00 to 7:00 but no one was checking status. If you knew about this you could just walk right in act like you belong there. As I was in a suite it was fine for me. The appetizers were fabulous.

 

Platinum are also included. They do check on some ships. I find the appetizers to be good but nothing special.