Gratutities

[george35]

An answer to "iamcruzin" no I didnt cook my eggs, fry my bacon or make my coffee in the Windjammer but if I remember RCL includes ALL your meals in there price & tipping is up to the passengers for extra service. To me that means if I go else where for meals I should tip. I have NEVER seen anybody leave a tip in the WINDJAMMER, have you??? I know that the workers do not receive a great deal in pay but I tip for EXTRA service not what is expected.

 

george35

[cle-guy]

An answer to "iamcruzin" no I didnt cook my eggs, fry my bacon or make my coffee in the Windjammer but if I remember RCL includes ALL your meals in there price & tipping is up to the passengers for extra service. To me that means if I go else where for meals I should tip. I have NEVER seen anybody leave a tip in the WINDJAMMER, have you??? I know that the workers do not receive a great deal in pay but I tip for EXTRA service not what is expected.

 

george35

 

RCL adds the tips automatically, you have to make an effort to have them removed. Regardless of ones thinking you do in fact screw staff out of money that is earmarked as part of their wage, as is custom in the USA with restaurant staff.

 

Here is their explanation:

Gratuities

Q: How is the automatic daily gratuity shared between members of the staff and crew?

 

A: The automatic gratuity is $12.95 USD, or $15.95 USD for suite guests, applied to each guest's SeaPass® account on a daily basis. Here's how it is shared between your onboard service team:

• Dining & Culinary Services: $7.75 USD
  
• Stateroom Attendant: $3.85 USD OR Suite Attendant: $6.10 USD
  
• Other Housekeeping Services: $1.35 USD OR Housekeeping and Suite Services: $2.10 USD
  

 

Notice, it does not say the gratuity goes to your Main Dining Room staff, it goes to Dining and Culinary Services.

 

Further in the FAQ, they suggest additional tipping for exceptional service at ones discretion.

 

Will you be taken to jail for not tipping, no, but it's highly unethical and just plain rude to remove them without a very good reason and only for terrible, terrible service, and even for this, I would have to have had a conversation with management and give a chance for recovery before screwing the staff of their wage.

 

To your point that the crusie fares includes meals -- they also say they will add a standard gratuity.

 

To your question about not seeing any one tip in Windjammer, some probably do pass off a buck or 2, but most do not, as they have already paid via the automatic daily gratuity, so no need to tip more, but for exceptional service.

Edited August 3, 2015 by cle-guy

[sloopsailor]

On our recent cruise with RCL we decided not to eat in the MDR but went to CHOPS for 2 dinners & the rest of the cruise eat in the Windjammers at our leisure. We went & removed our tips from everywhere & tipped the room steward & of course the waiter in Chops, were we wrong in doing this??

 

george35

 

In an answer to your question "where did I eat Breakfast & Lunch" I dont belive that comes into the question about tipping. I Tip for the service I receive not for the service that is offered & not used.

 

george35

 

An answer to "iamcruzin" no I didnt cook my eggs, fry my bacon or make my coffee in the Windjammer but if I remember RCL includes ALL your meals in there price & tipping is up to the passengers for extra service. To me that means if I go else where for meals I should tip. I have NEVER seen anybody leave a tip in the WINDJAMMER, have you??? I know that the workers do not receive a great deal in pay but I tip for EXTRA service not what is expected.

 

george35

 

JAF1, this must be one of the people you were commenting about in your post #30. :(

Edited August 3, 2015 by sloopsailor

[cruisestitch]

beanb41 said:

 

"There is already an 18% gratuity included in the cost of dining in a specialty restaurant."

 

AFAIK that is an incorrect statement. Can you provide any documentation to back up this assertion?

[sloopsailor]

beanb41 said:

 

"There is already an 18% gratuity included in the cost of dining in a specialty restaurant."

 

AFAIK that is an incorrect statement. Can you provide any documentation to back up this assertion?

 

Here is a quote from a CruiseCritic news article about specialty dining and tips http://www.cruisecritic.com/blog/index.php/2011/07/25/tipping-points-ive-already-paid-30-do-i-have-to-tip-at-the-for-fee-alternative-restaurant/

 

"The surcharges for Celebrity Cruises and Royal Caribbean specialty restaurants already include gratuities; a slight variation, but the same result: There’s no need to pay on top."

 

Of course, no one’s going to stop you from filling the outstretched hand, if, as Royal Caribbean spokesman Harrison Liu says, you “feel that the staff delivered exemplary service.”

 

I tend to believe that CC has an inside line on what actually happens on cruise ships, so this is what I use as a guide when dining in the specialty venues.

Edited August 3, 2015 by sloopsailor

[cruisestitch]

But, where did the 18% figure come from? I go along with the idea that the specialty restaurant fee includes a gratuity, just curious how anyone knows that it's that amount.

 

FWIW, I would actually imagine that the percentage is actually higher, there being so many more servers and headwaiters in Murano, Tuscan, etc. And it might be a bit less in Bistro on 5, since as I recall they are often trainees.

[GUT2407]

Earlier it was said that DR mgt get $1 of the grats pp/pd. On a bg ship that is thousands a day, who gets it.

[cle-guy]

But, where did the 18% figure come from? I go along with the idea that the specialty restaurant fee includes a gratuity, just curious how anyone knows that it's that amount.

 

FWIW, I would actually imagine that the percentage is actually higher, there being so many more servers and headwaiters in Murano, Tuscan, etc. And it might be a bit less in Bistro on 5, since as I recall they are often trainees.

 

I have a friend who works in a prestigious, upscale restaurant in Manhattan, with several restaurants there and in Vegas under a well known chef

 

They pool all tips.

 

Servers as part of their compensation package negotiate a percentage of the pool based on their experience and role in the restaurant.

 

So for example.

 

The pool may be shared:

 

5% Chef

5% sous chef team

5% Dishwasher

5% Hostess

5% Bussers

30% Highest tier servers

25% mid tier servers

20% low tier servers

------

100%

 

(figures are hypothetical, I don't have the factual breakdown)

 

So if $1000 in tips come in, all the chefs etc. that worked split $50 among their team, high tier servers split $300 among them etc.

 

This is why I surmise that perhaps Specialty restaurants get the 30%, MDR gets 25% and other outlets get 20% shared with servers. It's really simple to do it this way rather than track everything back to individual staff (which is impossible to do for those working ocean view and the burger grill for example) The split is a simple excel calculation, and is shared on a pro-rate basis based on hours worked.

 

The theory is it builds a team, and everyone realizes they rely on each other, dishwasher and bussers are important for the waiter to do their job well.

Edited August 3, 2015 by cle-guy

[rose6]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientel. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

[cruisestitch]

Dining room management include the Maitre Ds, the Assistant Maitre Ds, and other supervisors. There are maybe 40 of them on staff, more or less.

[Wine-O]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientel. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

 

That's a bunch of liberal gobbledygook!!! :rolleyes:

[cle-guy]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientel. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

 

You can ask that of companies if you want, but the custom and culture is well in place, and the truth of the matter is it is not going to change at all, no matter how much howling happens, unless people simply stop cruising on the long list of cruise lines that have the practice. It's a bit naive to think that this practice will ever come to an end. I mean, even the UK based cruise lines add tips and don;t follow their home custom.

 

If people pay these tips, the staff make living wages. Mission accomplished, what does it matter how the math gets them there, bottom line is the same.

 

You can pay $1000 plus $200 in tips, or you can pay $1300 for your cruise (yes, I say $1300 not just $1200 because there will be additional payroll and other tax implication costs to consider if they just include in the fare).

 

So by adding tips, we all come out winners, staff get paid their wage plus tips = living wage versus getting paid just living wage - they come out equal either way, unless people remove tips.

 

Argue semantics all you want, mathematically, WE are better off with cruise fare plus tips versus all inclusive cruise fare, and staff are the same either way.

[Fouremco]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post.

Third option: disagreement with your main points.

[ladywendolyn]

If I don't have a choice on giving a tip, it's not a tip it's a bill. In Canada we tip everywhere and it has become to the point where lousy, resentful employees expect a tip for poor service. They suddenly become nice at tip time. I have come to a point where if you did not give good service, no tip. That being said, we are treated like royalty on cruises and have never seen staff not give a standard of care that deserves a tip. But I do like having the right to remove it if there is poor service... Which I hope to never get.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iamcruzin]

I go on record as tipping only what he cruise line tells me to. I do not give extra cash, except for my butler when he arranges parties.

 

I don't feel the need to tip any more than requested, I feel those amounts are quite fair overall.

 

I agree. I will tip the room steward for a special request at the time of the request. The staff signed a contract accepting the given amount as a gratuity. If that's good enough for them than why should I question the system.

[SantaFeFan]

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.[/Quote]

 

No, actually they don't. It is their business, and they can run it however they want. If a process is working for them, they don't need to change it. Just because a few people REFUSE to accept that it is their ship so they can set the rules, there is no compelling reason to change the current process. If YOU don't like it, then DON'T cruise on those ships that have a successful process that you cannot - or refuse to - accept.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientele. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

 

Your argument is total BS. The ships are owned by companies that have set up their corporate headquarters in the country they determined worked best for them. It is the culture of THOSE countries that supersede any cultural norms of any country they may visit. And that goes for any cruise company that has set up headquarters in the UK as well (and just how many have done that? - very few!). I cannot imagine the total chaos that would ensue if the culture of the ship changed to match every country they visited on a typical cruise, just to placate the "I know better" bleeding heart types that continually blather away about how "immoral" these companies are. What a foolish idea! :eek:

 

Just because something is done one way in your country, doesn't mean it is the correct way to do it everywhere else.

 

May I suggest you never leave your own country's borders if how other countries - i.e., "cultures" - do things is so distasteful to you. Seriously! :rolleyes:

Edited August 3, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[Beanb41]

No, actually they don't. It is their business, and they can run it however they want. If a process is working for them, they don't need to change it. Just because a few people REFUSE to accept that it is their ship so they can set the rules, there is no compelling reason to change the current process. If YOU don't like it, then DON'T cruise on those ships that have a successful process that you cannot - or refuse to - accept.

 

 

 

Your argument is total BS. The ships are owned by companies that have set up their corporate headquarters in the country they determined worked for them. It is the culture of THOSE countries that supersede any cultural norms of any country they may visit. And that goes for any cruise company that has set up headquarters in the UK (and just how many have done that? - very few!). I cannot imagine the total chaos that would ensue if the culture of the ship changed to match every country they visited on a typical cruise. What a foolish idea! :eek:

 

Just because something is done one way in your country, doesn't mean it is the correct way to do it everywhere else.

 

May I suggest you never leave your own country's borders if how other countries - i.e., "cultures" - function is so distasteful to you. Seriously! :rolleyes:

 

Australia is becoming a larger cruising start point as time goes on with P & O and Princess now permanently basing ships down under. Because of Australia's reluctance to tip as is here in NZ compulsory gratuities have been done away with and passengers now pay a fixed price with no expectations of additional tips. Whilst it may be semantics about gratuities being additional or included in the price, I like the idea of a fixed price. The reason why US based ships add gratuities is probably because of the US culture of cost plus tax plus tip which really distorts one's costs. Still as a customer we have a choice.

 

Despite comments to the contrary I would be very surprised if Guest relations passed onto stewards and waiters that no gratuities were going to be paid. If a subsequent surly attitude followed, who would be responsible and accountable for the negative cruise report by said passenger about for example their room steward. This takes into account that it is the post cruise reports that have a bearing on future employment of staff on board. Too many adverse reports and contracts are not renewed. This is why towards the end of a cruise staff put extra emphasis of a positive post cruise report

[LabGuy64]

while I agree that the cruise lines should be the only ones involved with staff wages the concept of a "living wage" is BS.....this recent flap over burger flippers needing a raise to $15.00 is total crap. people whining that they cannot raise their families on minimum wage does not break my heart. many jobs are not meant to be careers....fast food jobs are for kids learning to enter the workplace not a man with a 4 kids. and what do you base the "living wage" onboard to be?...based on the country of origin for the employee? nation where the ship is registered? where the cruise line is based?....nonsense

 

 

Some of you seem to have missed , or chosen to ignore a few of the main points I made in my previous post. My view is that the auto tipping policy needs to be eliminated, and the cruise lines who have chosen to adopt this policy need to assume appropriate financial responsibility for the wages of their employees. It is a matter of economic and social justice to pay employees a living wage.

 

Listing a number of cruise lines that also use the auto tipping scheme does not justify the practice. You should be aware that many of the listed lines are owned by a few large corporations. .Also as some have argued, it is not a matter of conforming to local customs or mores. The ships sail the oceans of the world and have an international clientel. When we see a practice that we may regard as unfair don't we have a moral responsibility to speak up and request that corporations become better corporate citizens?

[cle-guy]

Australia is becoming a larger cruising start point as time goes on with P & O and Princess now permanently basing ships down under. Because of Australia's reluctance to tip as is here in NZ compulsory gratuities have been done away with and passengers now pay a fixed price with no

 

Despite comments to the contrary I would be very surprised if Guest relations passed onto stewards and waiters that no gratuities were going to be paid.

 

I know P&O has done away with adding Grats in your market, but as far as I can tell, Princess still does add them, their website has nothing about exceptions down under.

 

Be surprised as you wish, but it's true, staff (at least supervisory staff anyway) get a list of removed tips, it's to allow them to attempt "service recovery" and offer extra service. I had the maitre'd ask a table mate what they had done wrong and what could they do to win him back after he removed tips.

[LabGuy64]

not the technique I would have used.....bringing it up in front of other guests is totally unprofessional

 

 

I know P&O has done away with adding Grats in your market, but as far as I can tell, Princess still does add them, their website has nothing about exceptions down under.

 

Be surprised as you wish, but it's true, staff (at least supervisory staff anyway) get a list of removed tips, it's to allow them to attempt "service recovery" and offer extra service. I had the maitre'd ask a table mate what they had done wrong and what could they do to win him back after he removed tips.

[sloopsailor]

Australia is becoming a larger cruising start point as time goes on with P & O and Princess now permanently basing ships down under. Because of Australia's reluctance to tip as is here in NZ compulsory gratuities have been done away with and passengers now pay a fixed price with no expectations of additional tips. Whilst it may be semantics about gratuities being additional or included in the price, I like the idea of a fixed price. The reason why US based ships add gratuities is probably because of the US culture of cost plus tax plus tip which really distorts one's costs. Still as a customer we have a choice.

 

Actually, this isn't the reason. There is someone here on CC who has worked in the cruise industry for decades, much of it in managerial roles. He has given us many insights into the cruising business.

 

Based on his insider knowledge, we have learned that the only reason that some cruise lines have now included the gratuities in the base fare for cruises in Australia (and the UK) is quite simple - too many guests were stiffing the crew, most likely because they didn't agree with the gratuity policies on those ships, and would "stick it" to them in order to make a point. The crew moral suffered tremendously as the number of people who refused to give tips was substantial and the crew saw a significant drop in their income when sailing those markets. To prevent angry staff, the cruise lines HAD to instate a modified cruise fare in which guests would no longer have the option of removing those tips. Celebrity does this on their ships only when they are sailing those areas. The normal gratuity policies are reinstated as soon as the ships are deployed to other areas when the cruising season ends there. What is ironic is that these misguided guests seem to think that they are punishing the cruise line by refusing to pay the gratuities. In reality, the hard working staff who is serving them every day is who is being punished, not th "greedy" corporations.

 

So, you Aussies and Brits did it to yourselves. You forced the cruise lines to increase your fares so the crew would no longer be stiffed. You lost your bargaining power because now, for you, you have no option to remove tips if service is actually bad. Well done!

 

Despite comments to the contrary I would be very surprised if Guest relations passed onto stewards and waiters that no gratuities were going to be paid. If a subsequent surly attitude followed, who would be responsible and accountable for the negative cruise report by said passenger about for example their room steward. This takes into account that it is the post cruise reports that have a bearing on future employment of staff on board. Too many adverse reports and contracts are not renewed. This is why towards the end of a cruise staff put extra emphasis of a positive post cruise report

 

It is rather convenient to ignore what actually happens when it supports your beliefs, isn't it? In reality, as has been documented on these tipping threads in the past, the staff is indeed notified of who has removed their gratuities. Passengers have even seen these notifications posted on message boards when taking tours of the inner workings of the ships.

 

The staff won't be surely, and they don't need to. All they have to do is provide a bit less care with your room cleaning, be a bit slower with your food delivery at meals, or ignore you when you appear to need some assistance. It would appear entirely normal, just as if they were providing the poor service you so expect - which your removal of their gratuities has guaranteed. :rolleyes:

Edited August 3, 2015 by sloopsailor

[GUT2407]

Dining room management include the Maitre Ds, the Assistant Maitre Ds, and other supervisors. There are maybe 40 of them on staff, more or less.

 

 

So say $75 a day each, based on say 3000 pax at a dollar a day. Plus their wage.

[GUT2407]

I know P&O has done away with adding Grats in your market, but as far as I can tell, Princess still does add them, their website has nothing about exceptions down under.

 

Be surprised as you wish, but it's true, staff (at least supervisory staff anyway) get a list of removed tips, it's to allow them to attempt "service recovery" and offer extra service. I had the maitre'd ask a table mate what they had done wrong and what could they do to win him back after he removed tips.

 

 

I can guarantee you Princess don't add grats on ships based here, for good, Sun Dawn and Sea or visting for a season.

[springfire]

No, actually they don't. It is their business, and they can run it however they want. If a process is working for them, they don't need to change it. Just because a few people REFUSE to accept that it is their ship so they can set the rules, there is no compelling reason to change the current process. If YOU don't like it, then DON'T cruise on those ships that have a successful process that you cannot - or refuse to - accept.

 

 

I agree, they can run their business anyway they want but it still remains people can still refuse to tip and stiff the crew and the cruise lines will always welcome them back. So even if you and I don't like it they can still cruise on those ships because the cruise lines allow this type of behavior.

[woodyren]

Dining room management include the Maitre Ds, the Assistant Maitre Ds, and other supervisors. There are maybe 40 of them on staff, more or less.

 

OK. 2850 pax 7 day cruise. $1 per day to the DR management. Around $20000 spread between 40 people per week on top of their wage with all board and meals covered already. NICE and good for them. Looks like they need no further support from me.

 

Add to that all the cash "bribes" sorry tips some get for moving you to the head of the queue in table choice or changes to dinning times.

 

When they come around to finally see you at the end of the cruise I will continue to do what I have always done ( I am with cle-guy that I always just leave my auto grats on) and smile and say hi.

 

Just read your post as well GUT2407 and looks like we agree.