Silversea Water Cooler: Welcome! Part Two

[TLCOhio]

I apologise for this intrusion, as I don't post often but during a break from the office this afternoon, I read Jeff's post on "Butler's" and it struck a chord... I agree 100% with his sentiments... and his reasoning.

Unrealistic expectations increase as a result....., but I still blame "Drownton Abbey" for all this aspirational nonsense, Bah Humbug... Iain

 

Appreciate these good, added thoughts/comments from Iain. Glad you took an office break and posted here. Excellent point/question on "Unrealistic expectations"!! We did not expect too, too much and knew that each Butler had about 15 rooms to look over. BUT, it worked well for our needs and interests. Looking forward to our Silver Cloud South Africa-Mozambique cruise in early Feb. 2016.

 

Great discussion and learning experience on this subject with this thread. Different viewpoints and comments, but it has all has flowed well.

 

Was the use of "Drownton Abbey" just a typo and/or a cute little editorial comment??

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 116,935 views for this posting.

Edited August 24, 2015 by TLCOhio

[UKCruiseJeff]

May I just express some genuine appreciation for the supportive comments because I feel quite deeply about these things and only expected a bit of a hate-fest. I might be a soppy old sod - but I feel a touch feely about this. The negative stuff might come but the first few responses have been sensitive to how I feel and I genuinely appreciate it.

 

Terry,

 

I know you to be a lovely decent person, and however unintended your post was it actually reinforced perfectly why I feel how I feel.

 

The focus was on what was provided rather than who provided it. It focussed understandably on how satisfied you were with what they did given the extremeties fo your demands. The person was in fact invisible. In fact to wifey and me it was a picture of a well-dressed slave from the Philipines who was indulging some very demanding customers extremely well. I mean that nicely. He was however nothing remotely to do with being a Butler and it is nothing to do with semantics. He was and is an underpaid exploited person under contract probably from a third party organisation scared of adverse feedback lest he be fired - and doing everything he is told to do. An example of my ill-ease and discomfort is asking him to clean shoes. I would not dream of asking anyone else other than myself, my wife or a real professional shopping mall shoe cleaner to clean my shoes. There is no one of status sufficiently low for me to request the cleaning of shoes to me other than myself or a person I would pay generously to do it. Him being called a Butler or "my butler" has in my view increased unfairly expectations of him and made his life much worst.

 

The feet and shoes has real connotations in many cultures we should not ignore. What was the first thing that Iraqui's did to Sadam's statue when it was felled? They beat it with their shoes.

 

In addition, in British society a Butler was seen and is now seen as being Amex Centurion. A person with extraordinary resources and status in a way equal to their client. In the past a Butler would be very clear about demakation to their boss and what their "owner" was allowed to do and not do. The bounderies were clear and sensible gentry treated their butlers as knowledegable professional equals. Except for on Downton Butlers do not clean shoes.

 

Please take this "in the spirit" but your post reinforces my un-ease rather than allays it.

 

Jeff

 

:)

Edited August 24, 2015 by UKCruiseJeff

[TLCOhio]

in British society a Butler was seen and is now seen as being Amex Centurion. A person with extraordinary resources and status in a way equal to their client. In the past a Butler would be very clear about demakation to their boss and what their "owner" was allowed to do and not do. The bounderies were clear and sensible gentry treated their butlers as knowledegable professional equals. Except for on Downton Butlers do not clean shoes. Please take this "in the spirit" but your post reinforces my un-ease rather than allays it. Jeff

 

Understand fully, Jeff, and appreciate the totally different perspectives from the two different worlds as to how the word and services of a "Butler" can be used and/or mis-used. From these three different cruises and 41 days sailing with Silversea, my sense is that our Butlers really liked it when their customers gave them some "challenges"! My experience is that they feel many passengers did not ask for much, if anything, and they could not show off their skills, abilities.

 

This has been a helpful "educational" journey for how words/meanings on "Butler" can get very confused in today's world of marketing and hype.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, look at this earlier posting for many options and visual samples this city that is so great for "walking around", personally seeing its great history and architecture. This posting is now at 53,832 views.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

[UKCruiseJeff]

Understand fully, Jeff, and appreciate the totally different perspectives from the two different worlds as to how the word and services of a "Butler" can be used and/or mis-used. From these three different cruises and 41 days sailing with Silversea, my sense is that our Butlers really liked it when their customers gave them some "challenges"! My experience is that they feel many passengers did not ask for much, if anything, and they could not show off their skills, abilities.

 

This has been a helpful "educational" journey for how words/meanings on "Butler" can get very confused in today's world of marketing and hype.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, look at this earlier posting for many options and visual samples this city that is so great for "walking around", personally seeing its great history and architecture. This posting is now at 53,832 views.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

 

 

Thanks.

 

And you genuinely believe that they would tell you if they were dissatisfied?

 

Jeff

[TLCOhio]

Thanks. And you genuinely believe that they would tell you if they were dissatisfied? Jeff

 

I am fairly decent (but not perfect) in "reading" body language and gauging other signs/info. Plus, these were fairly long cruises and that allowed a better opportunity to get to know a little better some of the ship personnel. Had lots of frank and candid discussions with a number of the staff members. On the Amazon River, Barbados to Barbados segment, we only had 179 passengers (60% of capacity) compared to 222 crew members. That made things far different than what you get with a shorter cruise with a larger number of passengers.

 

Agree, on the surface, in most cases, the majority of staff members are going to put on a "happy face" and not be too frank or candid.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Super loved Dubrovnik!!! See more details and lots of great visual samples/examples at this link. Have had over 29,825 views on this posting and appreciate those who have tuned-in and dropped by.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

Edited August 24, 2015 by TLCOhio

[mysty]

 

I guess that in order to ensure this doesn't make Host Dan's life even more problematic we remind ourselves that ALL CC guidelines apply but with the exception that things can be both on and off topic. I'd also like to add a rider for this thread. I personally try to be poster-blind. I try to read each post on it's merits. I'd like this thread to be a place for everyone to banter on anything they wish and the topic either floats or sinks on the interest it generates. I'd also like old perceived slights and scores to be set-aside. I'd like to see the only rule is that anything can be posted that if you were reasonably imaginative and generous it's appropriate. I'd also like to offer the suggestion that everyone should be offered the benefit of the doubt. If you don't like a post then either ignore it, or report it. Don't say you don't like it. Anyway – I have no authority – I just want to start a congenial thread which people simply enjoy with minimal risk of nastiness. Host Dan can if he wants dump all the rubbish form other threads here if he thinks appropriate.

 

 

And I think this is why posters to the cooler are being respectful of people's feelings and the concerns expressed here. The tone and the desired atmosphere have been set.

[TLCOhio]

As promised (or threatened), here are some added visual from wonderful Salzburg. These were taken back in 1997 and our weather was not perfectly sunny and nice on that day. BUT, you get the idea for the class and style of Salzburg.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Wonderful Kotor and nearby Montenegro? Check these postings. Have had over 24,647 views on this posting and appreciate those who have tuned-in and commented.:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

 

 

Salzburg has such an amazing history given it wealth due to the salt mines (when that was such a valuable/needed item in the old days) and its significant Roman Catholic connections/power. As shown, the Castle dominates over this nicely-sized city that is fairly compact and easy to get around. Love the signs there as shown in one of the pictures. Plus, the "Sound of Music" is nice for many Americans!!:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[spinnaker2]

The postings on buttling prompted me to look it up on Wikipedia.

Very enlightening in terms of etiology or genesis of the term and evolution of the duties.

I will never think of the word in the same way.

[TLCOhio]

Given the earlier discussions for travel options in Europe for JP, Chris and others, here is another option to consider. They speak English there and it is a shorter flight to get there from the USA than with some other Europe locations.

 

Where? From Jeff's somewhat-suspected Daily Mail in London, they have this headline and travel story: "Dublin named Europe's cheapest capital for a culture break" and they follow with this comparison: "bottom-ranked London is four times more expensive".

 

Here are some of their story highlights: "British culture vultures who are looking for a cheap city break don’t have to venture too far, with Dublin being named the most affordable destination in Europe. New research suggests the Irish capital is cheaper than the usual bargain destinations such as Prague, Budapest and Warsaw, which previously rates as best value. But the same cannot be said for London, which is Europe’s most expensive city for culture at nearly four times the cost of a trip to Dublin."

 

They note this story is sourced and detailed as: "A Post Office Travel Money report compared the cost of visiting six cultural attractions: a museum, art gallery, heritage attraction, ballet, opera and classical concert. Attending all six sites in Dublin, including the National Museum and National Gallery, would cost just £76, which is more than 25 per cent cheaper than a year ago." But, maybe the attractions in London are better, more interesting than offered in Dublin?

 

Overall, we loved Dublin during our visit there in 2000. Lots of good food, culture, history, architecture, etc., is there. You can sample lots in Dublin during two, three or four days there. Below are a few of the visual samples from my photo files.

 

Full story at:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3206889/Dublin-named-cheapest-city-culture-break.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 116,935 views for this posting.

 

 

At Dublin’s Trinity College, here is a distinctive statute in the center of this campus founded in 1592 by Queen Elizabeth I.:

 

 

 

The bronze “Molly Malone” statute is at the bottom of Grafton Street in the heart of Dublin. Grafton Street has lots of fun and interesting shopping options and is right next to Trinity College.:

 

 

 

For seven centuries, Dublin Castle was the symbol of English rule, including the round, 1226 Record Tower and the Chapel Royal at the right.:

 

 

 

Temple Bar is the center of Dublin’s entertainment district:

 

 

 

Dublin’s Custom House sits on the Liffey River and was completed in the early 1800’s.:

 

 

 

On the Dublin’s O’Connell Street, this is the James Larkin statute to honor the 1913 general strike leader. In the background is the historic Post Office that was a symbol of the 1916 Irish Rising.:

 

[PS Caledonia]

 

Was the use of "Drownton Abbey" just a typo and/or a cute little editorial comment??

 

 

Terry,

 

If you ever watched Julian Fellowes' TV dramatisation of the "Titanic" in 2012, you would understand why it sunk without trace..!

 

The critics nic-named it "Drownton Abbey" for a very good reason.

 

In the meantime, if you get the chance go to Chapter 7 of the late great John Maxtone-Graham's second book, "Liners to the Sun".

 

It's enitled "Backstage" and although nearly 30 years old it really is an eye-opener as to how hard the crew work and what goes on behind the scenes. (I also like his reference to "Old Guard" passengers!).

 

It is a beautifully written book and best read from a deckchair, somewhere at sea.....

 

Iain

[TLCOhio]

Terry, If you ever watched Julian Fellowes' TV dramatisation of the "Titanic" in 2012, you would understand why it sunk without trace..! The critics nic-named it "Drownton Abbey" for a very good reason. In the meantime, if you get the chance go to Chapter 7 of the late great John Maxtone-Graham's second book, "Liners to the Sun". It's enitled "Backstage" and although nearly 30 years old it really is an eye-opener as to how hard the crew work and what goes on behind the scenes. (I also like his reference to "Old Guard" passengers!). It is a beautifully written book and best read from a deckchair, somewhere at sea..... Iain

 

Appreciate this wonderful, added background from Iain in London. I don't have any deckchair reading time upcoming at sea, but I had kind of assumed you were providing a cute twist with the phrase "Drownton Abbey". Nice to know how the critics linked it to his dramatization of the "Titanic" in 2012. For me on Downton Abbey, the story lines are a bit over the top, but the settings and period piece touches are fascinating. PLUS, here in the US, PBS does not have any interruptions for bothersome commercials.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. We are now at 203,412 views for this live/blog re-cap, including much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[mysty]

Tonight we are taking Sonny to Atelier. It is a tasting menu restaurant serving 'New Canadian' food based on hypermodern culinary technique and technology in 12 courses. Myster and I were there in 2008 and loved it. Here are some pictures from that visit.

 

First was something called Down By the Bay with Oyster, Caviar, Seaweed.

 

 

 

 

The next was called Back to School with Squab, pickled vegetables.

 

 

 

 

Can't wait to see what the menu holds for tonight! :D

[TLCOhio]

Wonderful food pictures from mysty!! Making me hungry for doing lunch soon.

 

For long weekend and/or holiday get-aways, Australia is too, too far to go. BUT, I highly suggest this area if your schedule and body will allow such long travel and distant flights. In Australia, Sydney, Great Barrier Reef, Melbourne, Tasmania, etc., tend to get most of the attention. But, below is more on Kangaroo Island and why we loved it so much. Plus, a few of my highlight pictures below from this area to prove its wonder and glory.

 

From the travel section of the Daily Mail in London this past weekend, they have this headline: "Wish 'roo were here! Australia's incredible Kangaroo Island is home to more than 60,000 marsupials (but only 4,500 humans)".

 

Here are some of the story highlights: "Explorer Matthew Flinders did not beat about the bush when naming the island off the coast of southern Australia where he washed up in 1802. He found a place devoid of humans but bouncing with marsupials yet to learn about guns and sailors' taste for 'roo meat. The sheer size of Kangaroo Island was my first surprise. Maps show KI (as it is known) as a speck in the Southern Ocean, but it's larger than Cornwall, though the population is just 4,500. Roos and their joeys in overwhelming numbers were foraging in scrub or bounding in mobs as far as the eye could see. This is what I had come to see: Aussie wildlife in profusion on the island dubbed the 'Australian Galapagos' because of the way creatures evolved into distinct species after rising sea levels left KI adrift from the mainland 10,000 years ago."

 

With this profile, there were lots of wonderful pictures and other details that brought back nice memories from our two-day visit last year to this unique island a few miles south of Adelaide. Loved KI so very much. It was one of the "best of the best" highlights from our visit to Australia and New Zealand.

 

Here is another key highlight noted in this article that we enjoyed so much: "Then there were the Australian sea lions. The climax of our day's safari was to leave our jeep and walk over the sand dunes to Seal Bay, where rumbustious bulls in their hundreds were blustering about on their flippered feet and butting potential rivals 'cos they herded females into protesting harems."

 

Full story at:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-3206885/Wish-roo-Australia-s-incredible-Kangaroo-Island-home-60-000-marsupials-4-500-humans.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 117,038 views for this posting.

 

 

Here are just two views from my many pictures from amazing Kangaroo Island, 70 miles south of Adelaide in South Australia. We had a great gourmet dinner and breakfast while staying at a charming family B&B on a historic sheep ranch there. First is an overall coastal/beach view within Flinders Chase National Park. Second is one view of the many angles and perspectives for what is correctly called Remarkable Rocks.:

 

 

 

 

 

With Craig Wickham, the operator of Exceptional Kangaroo Island on this famed Australian island near Adelaide, he took us on a "hunt", successfully, to find more Koalas out in the wild. Here is just one example of these Koala finds that we enjoyed so much. Aren't they cute? So lovable?:

 

 

 

Here is the amazing view through that famed stone at Admiral's Arch arch outward towards sea/rock/coastal scenery:

 

 

 

Here is a sampling from my many pictures of these interesting and playful Australian Sea Lions at Kangaroo Island's Seal Bay. Fun!!:

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by TLCOhio

[mysty]

Great pictures Terry! We also loved our time in Oz.

[MJN1]

First was in December 1970 while in college in travel via Eurail pass from Munich to Vienna.

 

Who still remembers the book "Europe on $5 a day"...?

Maybe time to publish an update "Europe on $500 a day" :eek:

[UKCruiseJeff]

Good Morning all .... from a very rainy Seaside! Arrived at 2:30 am ... no bunting out to welcome me .. and in bed by 04:15!

 

 

Who still remembers the book "Europe on $5 a day"...?

Maybe time to publish an update "Europe on $500 a day" :eek:

 

Yes .... but was about that Rick Stevas chappy! I remember how he pronounced Salzburg and I thought his programme was a Chevy Chase type spoof for a while until I realised with horror Americans really took it seriously and believed he was giving some sor of "inside track"! I remember his Vienna programme and how he pronounced "gemütlichkeit". And how every American then went to Figlmüllers for their schnitzel.

 

Happy days!

 

Jeff

[jpalbny]

And how every American then went to Figlmüllers for their schnitzel.

 

Happy days!

 

Jeff

 

We liked it!

 

 

Off to work... Still tired from the weekend but only a few more days until we have some time off.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I know JP, it is an institution!

 

 

Jeff

[TLCOhio]

Who still remembers the book "Europe on $5 a day"...?

Maybe time to publish an update "Europe on $500 a day" :eek:

 

mysty: Great pictures Terry! We also loved our time in Oz.

 

jpalbny: only a few more days until we have some time off.

 

Don't think back in 1970 that Rick Steves had started his writing/publishing. He was only 15-years-old at that time. He's age 60 now. During our month-long trip around Europe in 1970' date=' we started in Paris, traveled to Turin, Italy, to pick up a Fiat Spider sports car that needed some miles put on it. We did a drive over and back to wonderful Venice. Then more rail travels through Switzerland, Amsterdam, Germany, Austria, back to Venice, then Florence and Rome. Two friends were getting married in Rome and we were there for that event over Christmas in Rome.

 

Our guide during those travels was [b']Temple Fielding’s Travel Guide to Europe[/b]. It was our guide "Bible" during that trip!! Worked well. Any others remember Fielding's Guides and/or use them during their time?

 

Glad that mysty also had a great time in Australia, too!! Things are getting close to the time for another great adventure with JP and Chris in Europe.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. We are now at 203,457 views for this live/blog re-cap, including much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

Good Morning all .... from a very rainy Seaside! Arrived at 2:30 am ... no bunting out to welcome me .. and in bed by 04:15!

Yes .... but was about that Rick Stevas chappy! I remember how he pronounced Salzburg and I thought his programme was a Chevy Chase type spoof for a while until I realised with horror Americans really took it seriously and believed he was giving some sor of "inside track"! I remember his Vienna programme and how he pronounced "gemütlichkeit". And how every American then went to Figlmüllers for their schnitzel. Happy days! Jeff

 

Glad that Jeff has safely made it to the scenic seaside. Sorry, however, on the rain hitting your area. Our weather continues wonderful here in Central Ohio. Sunny, low humidity and a high today of 72F or 22C. Super nice for late August.

 

On Rick Steves, I have liked his TV show visuals and variety. His books are a little limited. Some love him and follow every one one of his tips/rules. Personally, I like a wider range of ideas, styles and approaches for travel in Europe. I will check out his suggestions, along with other resources.

 

From our 1970 adventures around Europe by rail, below are a few of my visuals from those travels. These are old slides, but they bring back nice memories, plus show how things, in a few cases, have changed. Or, not.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, look at this earlier posting for many options and visual samples this city that is so great for "walking around", personally seeing its great history and architecture. This posting is now at 53,832 views.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

 

 

Before the glass-pyramid, I.M Pei re-do of the Louvre, here is a view of a couple of friends walking ahead of my camera as we were entering this famed museum in December 1970. Notice the old VW Beetle car? Second is one of personal favorites with this darling French couple walking along the street in Paris. Third is an overview from the Salzburg's famed Castle showing the snow-covered roofs of their various churches and building in this city. Fourth is in the Mozart Museum in Salzburg with his piano shown in the apartment where he spent his early years. Finally, wonderful Venice in December 1970. No crowds of tourists, just people who live there and an ability to better enjoy the charms for this history city. This location with the edge of the Doge's Palace showing is centered on the area where Marco Polo boarded his boat to start his journey of discovery.:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UKCruiseJeff]

Soppy Ga, JP et al re Palma,

 

Found some more of my piccies of the hotel .... some of the art. The owner doesn't feature the art on the web site for obvious reasons ... and some of the roof and how close that lovely area is to the Cathedral. There is a fridge on the roof terrace and an honest system. First spot the artists ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by UKCruiseJeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

 

 

 

.... wifey on the roof ....

 

 

 

[mysty]

Jeff, that place looks absolutely beautiful! Can't identify any of the awesome artwork except for your gorgeous wife! :) I am a pleb! On a sadder note, Sonny goes home today and I probably won't see him for almost a year. Soppy mom here! :(

[TLCOhio]

Soppy Ga, JP et al re Palma, Found some more of my piccies of the hotel .... some of the art. The owner doesn't feature the art on the web site for obvious reasons ... and some of the roof and how close that lovely area is to the Cathedral. There is a fridge on the roof terrace and an honest system. First spot the artists ....

 

YES, appreciate the very impressive art shared by Jeff. Good, interesting postings. Is it Joan Miró i Ferrà, the famed Catalan/Spanish painter/sculptor was was born in Barcelona?? Do I win the prize?? Where do my free, first-class air tickets take me?

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 117,337 views for this posting.

[specialcruisegirl]

Fabulous pics Jeffers...I may be tempted to visit again for a long weeked.

 

Been a busy week here so looking forward to a quiet weekend bank holiday, can't believe its almost September!

 

Sophia :)