Never Again with Air Berlin!

[tigger_ag]

I will preface this with the fact that we booked our flights for our cruise with American and our flights from Dusseldorf to Copenhagen (and the return portion from Copenhagen to Dusseldorf) were code-shared to Air Berlin. Never again though will I book a flight that is code-shared with Air Berlin or on Air Berlin. Don't let the chocolate at the end of the flight fool you!

 

What happened to make me say this? First off my luggage. We checked two bags, one each for my husband and I, all the way through to Copenhagen. Due to issues with our plane in Chicago, we knew that our connection in Dusseldorf would be tighter than the original 50 minutes originally scheduled by the airlines, but that there was a chance some time would be made up in the air. This in fact did happen and the plane was informed that several of us had tight connections and to please let us off first. There were approximately ten of us all heading for the same flight nonetheless. We actually made it through passport control and to our gate with no problems, before boarding even began actually, and all proceeded to the bus that would take us out on the tarmac for the plane. Upon arriving at the plane, there were gentlemen to take carry on luggage that was too big for the overhead compartments and we all boarded the plane. The cargo hold of the plane was open and visible and I noticed that the plane was full of luggage. I gave no second thought to this. The flight to Copenhagen was a little over an hour long, so I had no worries with making our cruise on time (yes, we broke the cardinal rule of cruising, but unfortunately had no other options) as it was an early morning flight. Upon landing in Copenhagen, the nightmare ensues.

 

I will readily admit that we took our time in the Copenhagen airport making our way to baggage claim. We had been traveling all night and had yet to get money from the ATM, so we quickly took care of this then headed down to baggage claim. While looking on the boards for the baggage carousel for our baggage, it struck us as odd that there were no baggage carousels notated for our flight. We weren't so late that it would have already been changed to a different flight. We are talking the amount of time needed for bags to already start appearing on the carousel. I recognized some other people from our flight near one carousel and we asked an airport employee regarding the carousel as well to ensure we were at the right place. There were approximately five bags on the carousel and the airport employee had informed us that most everyone from the flight was standing in this long line we noticed, i.e. the lost luggage line, to file a claim! We quickly recognized that the few bags on the carousel were not ours (not even close as they were the wrong color, bag type, etc.), so off we were to stand in this line.

 

All the paperwork was filed at the airport in regards to our now lost luggage and our itinerary with all our cruise ports was filed (mind you there were lots of cruise passengers in this line from our cruise, NCL, as well as the Holland America ship leaving the next day). As we really had no other options and no one had any clue where any of the luggage that was supposed to be on the flight was, we had no choice but to head to the cruise ship. Come to find out 35 people on our cruise ship had no luggage. We know for sure that there were several others on our flight that were on our cruise with no luggage. A few people received theirs at our first port, most received at the second port (day 3 as day 2 was a sea day), and my husband received his on day 7 (of our 9 day cruise). We checked the website we were provided with and called the phone numbers we were provided with everyday to no avail. On top of this we had guest services and another employee we happened to know from the cruise line checking online and calling everyday. No one ever answers the phone! Day 7 we finally get a request for an inventory of the items in my bag. A cruise line employee takes care of this for me, by informing them I had clothing, toiletries, etc. in my bag (nothing specific mind you, as I know they were trying to help). In the meantime we are still calling and checking everyday to never get a response.

 

We finally end our cruise and have two days in Copenhagen, still with no luggage for me. Our last evening in Copenhagen, I inform my husband that I would like to run over to the airport terminal (we were staying at the Hilton Copenhagen Airport) and ensure we know exactly where we are going the next morning as we have to check in at 4:00 am. We figure out all our details and head off to eat and turn in for the night. At midnight, I am awoken by my cell phone ringing. I didn't answer as we only had international data plans. Then my husbands phone rings from the same number. I quickly wake him while googling the phone number to determine it's American Airlines. While he is calling American Airlines (before the voice mail message alert has even gone off), I find that our flight on Air Berlin has been canceled. No reason why is provided, besides I know we will get the standard party line of mechanical issues. The agent for American he is on the phone with tells him that the flights been canceled, but it looks like we've been rebooked by Air Berlin on British Airways through London. Not a problem for us, except that then he says it appears someone is in the process of changing our flights yet again while he is trying to confirm us! Now we are being put on KLM through Amsterdam to Chicago and then on United home. Big problems! First I don't fly United, no ifs and or buts about it due to previous issues with them and their inability to refund flights accordingly with their carriage of contract and lying to avoid issuing refunds in accordance with the contract. Second, when informed of the now new connection time in Chicago, being seasoned travelers through Chicago O'Hare, we knew that there was not enough time being allowed to deboard the plane, clear customs, obtain our luggage, obtain boarding passes, recheck luggage, transit terminals, clear TSA security, and make it to our gate on time. We informed American of this, but were then told this was our only option (obviously the acceptable British Airways flight had now been removed as an option) and that the flight was now assigned to United. American had nothing to do with our rebooking as someone from Air Berlin did all of the rebooking of my flight, American just happened now to be my contact since I purchased the flights through them and now Air Berlin unilaterally moved us to other airlines. As an aside, American did have an issue with us being booked on KLM though, as two days prior the interline agreement between Delta and American had been canceled. Now we are booked basically on two Delta flights that American has no interline agreement with!

 

Bet you can't guess what happens next! The flight from Amsterdam to Chicago first needs extra time to board cargo. Then of all things, the entire plane loses ground power! An hour and 45 minutes later, past our original departure time, we are finally in the air, knowing full well we have no chance of making the connection. Upon landing in Chicago, we don't even bother with United (the flight had obviously been missed). We head straight to American who now tries to send me to United. Though demand is a strong word to use, we basically demanded that American take our flight back from United at this point and put us on American Airline flights home, as I paid American for our flights and not United. They ended up getting us on the next flight.

 

As for my luggage - no clue where it is. Air Berlin won't respond to calls, emails, or Facebook, yet they continually send emails for an updated inventory (yes, I have sent in a detailed inventory and requested a reply that it's been received and processed to no avail). The baggage handling service for lost luggage doesn't respond either to phone calls or email. Yesterday, American provided us with a new number to call (actually the reservations number) to which my husband called and after finding it was for reservations asked to speak with a supervisor. The Air Berlin representative had the gaul to tell my husband that if he didn't speak German, he couldn't speak with a supervisor and hung up on him!

 

I know people will say we need to deal with American. Been there. American sends us to Air Berlin saying it's an Air Berlin issue. Air Berlin doesn't deal with anyone apparently because they don't answer the phone, respond to emails, or respond to Facebook posts, so back to American we go. It's a never ending loop, but American is trying to help us out as much as possible especially since Air Berlin screwed up by putting us with KLM/Delta and apparently doesn't know how to answer the phone, email, or Facebook.

 

Quick note that after we returned home, September 17th, I googled "Air Berlin lost luggage." Granted many of the posts are from 2013, but if I'd have read the posts prior to booking my flights, I'd have booked totally different flights not involving Air Berlin.

 

Kelly

[Trunkabella]

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm going to try to do carry on only!

[diane.in.ny]

Thanks for posting.

 

I have sometimes paid a few $$ more to not be routed on an airline other than the one I'm paying so I understand and hear your pain.

 

As for only carryons.... wish we could still do that. Have traveled all over the world using just carryons. But now we are older and we have issues that require us to check our bags. Wish we could still do it the old way.

[6rugrats]

That is so long, with so much extraneous detail, I'm trying to understand what happened. Here's what I think you are saying:

 

1. You booked a flight on AA's webpage. AA operated the flight from ORD-DUS and then you connected to an Air Berlin flight, DUS-CPH. You checked two bags. You had only 50 minutes to make your connection at DUS for your CPH flight.

 

2. Your AA flight, ORD-DUS, left late due to unspecified problems.

 

3. Although the AA flight left late, you did make your DUS-CPH connection on Air Berlin.

 

4. Your bags did not arrive on time at CPH and you filed a lost bag claim

 

5. Your husband got his bag on day seven of your cruise, your bag has never shown up

 

6. Lots of details about your flight home and problems with routing and how you won't fly UA.

 

7. You do make it home, but still no bag. You can't get information from Air Berlin about where your bag is.

 

I honestly don't understand some of your comments about how "Air Berlin screwed up by placing us with KLM....". Sounds as if they were making a good effort to find a way to get you home. Stuff happens when you travel, and it's annoying sometimes.

 

When you filed a claim, didn't you receive a tracking number for your bag, that allows you to check the status online? Did Air Berlin records ever show that your bag made it from the AA flight to the Air Berlin flight? How many days has this been? Did you have travel insurance?

 

I would add that fifty minutes was not very much time to make this connection. It allows for no wiggle room at all. Also, as Air Berlin was the last carrier responsible for your bags, it's their issue to deal with. You need to resolve it through Air Berlin.

 

This is what Air Berlin says on their webpage about customer complaints. Note, they will not respond to complaints on social media:

 

Response to Customer Complaints Customers may file complaints with Air Berlin by emailing the Customer Service Department at customer@airberlin.com or writing to: Air Berlin, Customer Relations Department, Saatwinkler Damm 42-43; D-13627 Berlin / Germany. Air Berlin will acknowledge receipt of written complaints within 30 days and provide a substantive response to the customer’s concerns within 60 days. Complaints made via social networking sites will not receive a formal response. Notification of this limitation will be posted on any social networking site used by Air Berlin.

Edited September 23, 2015 by 6rugrats

[waterbug123]

the original 50 minutes originally scheduled by the airlines,

 

I noticed that the plane was full of luggage.

 

we broke the cardinal rule of cruising, but unfortunately had no other options)

 

I will readily admit that we took our time in the Copenhagen airport

 

I am awoken by my cell phone ringing. I didn't answer as we only had international data plans.

 

Now we are being put on KLM through Amsterdam to Chicago and then on United home. Big problems! First I don't fly United, no ifs and or buts about it

 

someone from Air Berlin did all of the rebooking of my flight, American just happened now to be my contact

 

Bet you can't guess what happens next! The flight from Amsterdam to Chicago first needs extra time to board cargo. Then of all things, the entire plane loses ground power! An hour and 45 minutes later, past our original departure time, we are finally in the air,

 

Air Berlin screwed up by putting us with KLM/Delta and apparently doesn't know how to answer the phone, email, or Facebook.

 

 

Let's see if I can parse this down a bit into things that Air Berlin can legitimately be blamed for, versus things that are not their fault. That might make it easier for someone else to decide if they are willing to fly them.

What Air Berlin is not at fault for:

• a 50 minute connection; you agreed to that itinerary
  
• A cargo hold full of luggage; we have no idea whether some of the already loaded luggage may have later been offloaded and your bags put on, so it's impossible to say that's why you didn't get your bags. For that matter, how can you be sure your bags were even in Dusseldorf in the first place? You didn't clear customs until you reached Copenhagen and didn't see your bags, but what if American never put them on the plane to Dusseldorf in the first place?
  
• Your decision to fly in the same day the cruise departed; maybe you had no other choice, but that still doesn't make it Air Berlin's fault
  
• Your decision to dawdle in the airport, despite having to get the ship, although it sounds like you still managed to have time to file a lost baggage claim and make the cruise, so this may be completely irrelevant and I'm not sure why it was part of the original post
  
• The midnight phone call waking you up. It came from AA, not Air Berlin, but given the situation, I would have half been expecting a call (and I assume you provided your phone number on the lost baggage claim?) and would have been glad to get it no matter the time
  
• Being rebooked on United. How was Air Berlin supposed to know that "don't fly United, no ifs ands or buts?"
  
• The KLM flight delay. Not Air Berlin, so not their fault the flight was delayed.
  

 

What Air Berlin can be blamed for:

• Not providing you with updates on your bags, answering the phone etc. This one is squarely on them and it's a doozie
  

 

 

So at the end of the day, it would appear that the main complaint is that you didn't get your bags (which may or may not be Air Berlin's fault, since you don't know exactly when and where they went missing), and that Air Berlin has been no help in finding them or updating you. The rest is pretty much superfluous, as it is things that are not their fault.

 

 

Incidentally, I was on a European cruise this summer with friends. Several of the friends original flight was so delayed their missed their connection at JFK and were rebooked on another airline but missed that flight too and were rebooked again the next day on another airline. Their bags never made it to the cruise, despite the fact that they (the people, not the bags) were in Istanbul for 2 days before the ship departed, so presumably in plenty of time for the bags to arrive on another flight and be delivered. Booked on Delta, originally rebooked on AF, that changed to a new rebooking on Alitalia. None of those airlines were ever able to give them accurate updates about the status of their bags, and one person never got hers until she'd been home nearly a month.

My point: Exactly what happened to you happens on other airlines as well. You already refuse to fly United. Now you say you will never fly Air Berlin. If you keep abandoning airlines every time you have a problem, pretty soon you won't be able to fly anywhere because there won't be any options left. Then what? :confused:

[tigger_ag]

In regards to your questions:

1) My flights were all American Airline flights with American Airline flight numbers. American does not fly into Copenhagen so the flight was code shared with Air Berlin (no option here, American's choice - I paid American Airlines and no one else, so my contract of carriage was with American). Luggage was checked through to final destination, so we never had to worry until Copenhagen. Also 50 minutes is generally more than enough time to traverse Dusseldorf (I even verified the minimum time needed in Dusseldorf prior to booking), but leaving late to be given way less than that is not enough. Dusseldorf is relatively small compared to airports such as London Heathrow, Amsterdam, or even Frankfurt, hence why 50 minutes is plenty of time here.

 

2) It's now day 18 without my luggage. American has traced my luggage to Dusseldorf. They also can't get a response from Air Berlin in trying to locate my luggage. Resorting to Facebook was a last ditch effort as Air Berlin responds to nothing. We've called and emailed. In fact the first phone call that was finally answered by Air Berlin was two days ago. On this call, we were immediately told unless we speak German, they won't speak with us and hung up!

 

3) Interline agreements are between airlines detailing out the arrangement between the airlines if one airlines' customers are needing to be put on another airline for whatever reason the airline needs to move them. American and Delta no longer have an agreement effective September 15, 2015. We were never Air Berlin customers (always American Airline customers), therefore, we could not be put on a Delta flight because there is no agreement between American and Delta for transferring passengers. Because of interline agreements in place for American, we should have been moved to British Airways. (American is dealing with the issue of us being moved to Delta). The "good effort" of trying to get me home, could have actually cost me thousands of dollars for flights we knew we shouldn't have been booked on (and informed the airline we knew we shouldn't have been on them) due to the lack of an interline agreement.

 

4) According to the Montreal Convention of 1999, lost baggage is to be reported within 7 days (it was reported on day 1) and the airline is to reimburse the passenger. I have yet to receive any reimbursement including for necessary items purchased during my trip. Yes I had trip insurance and we have filed the required paperwork. Obviously Air Berlin knows they are supposed to reimburse me and yet they are playing an avoidance game. It's now going to be up to the insurance company to try and seek reimbursement from Air Berlin for the amount the will have to pay me for amounts I am rightfully owed.

 

5) In regards to claim numbers, yes I have them. There were 35 of us without luggage on my cruise. Those of us on Air Berlin never received updates because the website is not updated regularly. Point in case, I checked again earlier and it still says that delivery has been initiated on my husband's bag. That status didn't even appear until after we received the bag!

 

Refusing to fly two airlines out of hundreds is not a big deal in reality. My reasons for not doing business with United has not been problematic at all and there are plenty of other options in Europe that don't include Air Berlin, all of whom I'm sure would appreciate my business.

[6rugrats]

In regards to your questions:

1) My flights were all American Airline flights with American Airline flight numbers. American does not fly into Copenhagen so the flight was code shared with Air Berlin (no option here, American's choice - I paid American Airlines and no one else, so my contract of carriage was with American). Luggage was checked through to final destination, so we never had to worry until Copenhagen. Also 50 minutes is generally more than enough time to traverse Dusseldorf (I even verified the minimum time needed in Dusseldorf prior to booking), but leaving late to be given way less than that is not enough. Dusseldorf is relatively small compared to airports such as London Heathrow, Amsterdam, or even Frankfurt, hence why 50 minutes is plenty of time here.

You did have enough time to make your flight. The problem is with your luggage, correct? You did have an option, though. It was not to book a code share with Air Berlin through AA. Lots of airlines fly to CPH, such as SAS.

 

2) It's now day 18 without my luggage. American has traced my luggage to Dusseldorf. They also can't get a response from Air Berlin in trying to locate my luggage. Resorting to Facebook was a last ditch effort as Air Berlin responds to nothing. We've called and emailed. In fact the first phone call that was finally answered by Air Berlin was two days ago. On this call, we were immediately told unless we speak German, they won't speak with us and hung up!

The last airline on which you flew is responsible for your bags; thus it's Air Berlin. I am surprised AA is even getting involved, unless they failed to get your bags to the Air Berlin flight on time. This part is unclear. Your luggage is considered officially lost after 21 days.

 

3) Interline agreements are between airlines detailing out the arrangement between the airlines if one airlines' customers are needing to be put on another airline for whatever reason the airline needs to move them. American and Delta no longer have an agreement effective September 15, 2015. We were never Air Berlin customers (always American Airline customers), therefore, we could not be put on a Delta flight because there is no agreement between American and Delta for transferring passengers. Because of interline agreements in place for American, we should have been moved to British Airways. (American is dealing with the issue of us being moved to Delta). The "good effort" of trying to get me home, could have actually cost me thousands of dollars for flights we knew we shouldn't have been booked on (and informed the airline we knew we shouldn't have been on them) due to the lack of an interline agreement.

The statements are very unclear here. Why do you think you would have been charged "thousands of dollars"?

You could have been on any airline's flight, interline agreement or not, as long as Air Berlin paid for it. I've taken a bump on LH, who paid for me to take a later BA flight, though they are not in the same alliance. You would not have been charged anything for these flights. It's Air Berlin's responsibility.

 

4) According to the Montreal Convention of 1999, lost baggage is to be reported within 7 days (it was reported on day 1) and the airline is to reimburse the passenger. I have yet to receive any reimbursement including for necessary items purchased during my trip. Yes I had trip insurance and we have filed the required paperwork. Obviously Air Berlin knows they are supposed to reimburse me and yet they are playing an avoidance game. It's now going to be up to the insurance company to try and seek reimbursement from Air Berlin for the amount the will have to pay me for amounts I am rightfully owed.

Usually your travel insurance will pay nothing until you obtain what reimbursement you can from the airline. You are lucky if they are paying anything at all. It has only been 18 days since you filed the claim. I am not sure if Air Berlin is "avoiding" you, or if they are just trying to deal with a lot of claims.

 

5) In regards to claim numbers, yes I have them. There were 35 of us without luggage on my cruise. Those of us on Air Berlin never received updates because the website is not updated regularly. Point in case, I checked again earlier and it still says that delivery has been initiated on my husband's bag. That status didn't even appear until after we received the bag!

Other people's missing bags are irrelevant. Luggage delivery is contracted out to a third party; it's not delivered by airline employees. Thus, there is often a lag time in information as to when the bag is delivered.

You don't have a separate claim number just for your bag that allows you trace it?

 

Refusing to fly two airlines out of hundreds is not a big deal in reality. My reasons for not doing business with United has not been problematic at all and there are plenty of other options in Europe that don't include Air Berlin, all of whom I'm sure would appreciate my business.

 

UA was mentioned only because I had no idea why it had anything to do with your story about Air Berlin. I am honestly not sure any airline appreciates our business, especially economy passengers.

 

Good luck with your bag.

Edited September 23, 2015 by 6rugrats

[Globaliser]

1) My flights were all American Airline flights with American Airline flight numbers. American does not fly into Copenhagen so the flight was code shared with Air Berlin (no option here, American's choice - I paid American Airlines and no one else, so my contract of carriage was with American).

You've lost me right from the start. Chicago to Copenhagen on AA flight numbers? There are plenty of options through LHR. It's rubbish that you had no option here.

Also 50 minutes is generally more than enough time to traverse Dusseldorf (I even verified the minimum time needed in Dusseldorf prior to booking), but leaving late to be given way less than that is not enough. Dusseldorf is relatively small compared to airports such as London Heathrow, Amsterdam, or even Frankfurt, hence why 50 minutes is plenty of time here.

And this is also rubbish. The official Minimum Connection Time for this connection is 45 minutes. 50 minutes is only just outside it. I would not call that "plenty of time", even if on most days you should make it. That's exactly the situation in which baggage is vulnerable to misconnecting, even if the passenger makes it.

 

So why did you choose this option?

[b_cruise]

Thanks for your story. I always learn from experiences on what to be careful of ( eg code sharing, connection times)so thanks for posting.

 

I did use air berlin a couple years back from vancouver-Düsseldorf-venice and return, but lucky for me everything went fine and I ignorantly flew in the day of my cruise.

 

I hope you get your luggage!

[az_tchr]

Certainly hope you get your luggage. Couple of thoughts. Never ever book a flight that has a connection in Europe that is under 2 hours if no passport control and 3 hours with. Too many things to go wrong.

 

Lots of great connections through LHR and other airports to Copenhagen. Also would definately never ever fly to Europe without giving at LEAST one full day before a cruise leaving. Weather, strikes, or ???? - too many things can and in your case did go wrong. Most of them not the fault of Air Berlin.

 

good luck on getting your luggage. There are 2 bags of mine somewhere out there!

[em-sk]

Certainly hope you get your luggage. Couple of thoughts. Never ever book a flight that has a connection in Europe that is under 2 hours if no passport control and 3 hours with. Too many things to go wrong.

 

Lots of great connections through LHR and other airports to Copenhagen. Also would definately never ever fly to Europe without giving at LEAST one full day before a cruise leaving. Weather, strikes, or ???? - too many things can and in your case did go wrong. Most of them not the fault of Air Berlin.

 

good luck on getting your luggage. There are 2 bags of mine somewhere out there!

 

I think 2-3 hours is excessive as a minimum for most airports where the connection is in the same terminal. One hour would be more reasonable at most airports. There are some exceptions, LHR is one where I think the 2-3 hours is appropriate. I try to avoid LHR.

 

The problem with the industry is the sub-contracting. The OP has a contract with American. American sub-contracts (through a code share) to transport the OP. Air Berlin sub-contracts the baggage handling. It is a very complex ecosystem. An ecosystem that despite being screwed generally works quite well for most passengers.

 

In this day and age where Airlines match bags to passengers for security reasons lost baggage should not happen that much, but it still does.

 

Sounds like Air Berlin is being pro-active in rebooking. They could have waited until you arrived at the airport and handled it then.

[iancal]

This is why we do carry on. One week or two months is the same for us...only carry on. It arrives when we do and we can physically handle it.

[waterbug123]

In regards to your questions:

Luggage was checked through to final destination, so we never had to worry until Copenhagen. Also 50 minutes is generally more than enough time to traverse Dusseldorf

 

Refusing to fly two airlines out of hundreds is not a big deal in reality. My reasons for not doing business with United has not been problematic at all and there are plenty of other options in Europe that don't include Air Berlin, all of whom I'm sure would appreciate my business.

 

Bags being checked through to Copenhagen does not necessarily guarantee that American actually got them on them on the flight to Dusseldorf. So again- maybe it was American's fault, not Air Berlin's, that your bags were not there waiting for you in Copenhagen.

 

As for 50 minutes being "generally more than enough time", the problem here is that this was a same day cruise departure, so a connection that is "generally more than enough time," yet barely meets the minimum connect time, is going to be risky. Realistically one can expect to be delayed for any number of reasons, so under the circumstances (needing to get to a ship that same day) I would have reconsidered that connection.

 

And you're right, there are plenty of other airlines to choose from when you are booking your reservation. If you experience irrops and need to be rebooked, you are largely at the mercy of the airline. So saying you will never fly United under any circumstances essentially means that you should never book an itinerary on any airline that is in the Star Alliance or with whom United has an interline agreement, lest you get rebooked by said airline onto United. That certainly narrows down the "hundreds" of airline possibilities. And of course now you can no longer book any airline that interlines with Air Berlin, either. Your "hundreds" of possibilities is much diminished at this point.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I think 2-3 hours is excessive as a minimum for most airports where the connection is in the same terminal. One hour would be more reasonable at most airports. There are some exceptions, LHR is one where I think the 2-3 hours is appropriate. I try to avoid LHR.

 

I wouldn't have said that there is any connecting flight, anywhere in the world, where one hour is reasonable - not in circumstances where you must make that connection. Unless I've just been unfortunate, the combination of delays in take-off, delays in landing, and delays in taxiing to the gate, all mean that arriving late is not at all unusual. Your 1 hour isn't very long when that happens.

[FlyerTalker]

When you ABSOLUTELY have to be somewhere....plan to arrive two days early. Maybe three.

 

Now, let's move from absolutely to some level of desirability and figure out your balance.

 

When I've chatted with people who have either missed a connect or had to run for the gate, the most frequent reasons are "it was cheaper" and "I didn't want to sit around an airport for hours on a longer connection". My two responses for the latter are: 1) "You don't seem to mind sitting around on a ship" and 2) "So, you prefer running to sitting?"

[em-sk]

I wouldn't have said that there is any connecting flight, anywhere in the world, where one hour is reasonable - not in circumstances where you must make that connection. Unless I've just been unfortunate, the combination of delays in take-off, delays in landing, and delays in taxiing to the gate, all mean that arriving late is not at all unusual. Your 1 hour isn't very long when that happens.

 

Quite reasonable at many airports.

 

A good example is Air Canada. If you look at the minimum connection times on a domestic flight they are all under 1 hour.

 

http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/connectiontimes.html#faq:7-6-5-0-*

 

There are many examples where it is quite reasonable. There are also many examples where it is quite unreasonable. The more congested airports in Europe I would avoid a tight connection.

[waterbug123]

Quite reasonable at many airports.

 

A good example is Air Canada. If you look at the minimum connection times on a domestic flight they are all under 1 hour.

 

 

"Mimimum connect times" are just that- the MINIMUM needed to connect, under IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES. But anyone who flies knows that ideal circumstances are far from guaranteed, and that delays happen. When you don't have much or any wiggle room to deal with a missed connection, then relying on MCT is unrealistic.

[em-sk]

"Mimimum connect times" are just that- the MINIMUM needed to connect, under IDEAL CIRCUMSTANCES. But anyone who flies knows that ideal circumstances are far from guaranteed, and that delays happen. When you don't have much or any wiggle room to deal with a missed connection, then relying on MCT is unrealistic.

 

Slower now. However I still try to group most of my business trips so I hit the four or five cities I am trying to visit in a single week. I do that about once a month. It is a balancing act. If I planned on minimum + two-three hour connections everywhere it would add an extra day or two to a business trip.

 

On the return trip would go with minimum connection times. If it does not work out. So bit it. On the outbound flight, exercise sine judgment. For a cruise, I would still fly in the day before and that provides a bit of flexibility in being more aggressive with tight connections.

[sverigecruiser]

What Air Berlin is not at fault for:

[*]a 50 minute connection; you agreed to that itinerary

 

If the connection is too short, the airline shouldn't allow it. They can't expect every customer to know how much time is needed for a connection on every airport.

 

I understand that 50 minutes is short on every airport but some people might not understand how a connection works.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Slower now. However I still try to group most of my business trips so I hit the four or five cities I am trying to visit in a single week. I do that about once a month. It is a balancing act. If I planned on minimum + two-three hour connections everywhere it would add an extra day or two to a business trip.

 

On the return trip would go with minimum connection times. If it does not work out. So bit it. On the outbound flight, exercise sine judgment. For a cruise, I would still fly in the day before and that provides a bit of flexibility in being more aggressive with tight connections.

That's pretty much my point as well. If missing your connection means you have a delay that doesn't really matter, eg. arriving home from holiday a day late, then an hour is fine. I did a 50 minute connection in Chicago (saem terminal) on that basis, and after the first flight was 20 minutes late, was last on board. (The flight was then delayed 6 hours due to a mechanical failure, but that's another matter.)

 

But setting off on a cruise, there's no way I would rely on an hour. The inconvenience of it missing would be greater than it's worth.

[waterbug123]

If the connection is too short, the airline shouldn't allow it.

 

Once again MCT is based on ideal conditions, i.e. inbound flight arriving on time, pax having no mobility issues, etc. There is no way MCT time can be adjusted to allow for every possible delay; if they did, they even 3 and 4 hour connections might not be ok and using your logic, shouldn't be allowed to be booked.

[NMLady]

I'm sorry you are having problems with Air Berlin. We used them as a code share flight to Copenhagen, with a connection in Berlin, and had no problems. In fact they went out of their way to be helpful. We wouldn't hesitate to use them again.

Edited September 30, 2015 by NMLady

[sverigecruiser]

Once again MCT is based on ideal conditions, i.e. inbound flight arriving on time, pax having no mobility issues, etc. There is no way MCT time can be adjusted to allow for every possible delay; if they did, they even 3 and 4 hour connections might not be ok and using your logic, shouldn't be allowed to be booked.

 

But 50 minutes between two international flights is always tight. If 50 normally is enough in Dusseldorf the connection is okay but my guess is that lots of people with 50 minutes between two international flights miss their connection even on a small airport like that.

 

MCT can't be adjusted for every possible delay but with a 50 minutes connection even very small delays will cause problems.

[Globaliser]

If the connection is too short, the airline shouldn't allow it. They can't expect every customer to know how much time is needed for a connection on every airport.

But 50 minutes between two international flights is always tight. If 50 normally is enough in Dusseldorf the connection is okay but my guess is that lots of people with 50 minutes between two international flights miss their connection even on a small airport like that.

 

MCT can't be adjusted for every possible delay but with a 50 minutes connection even very small delays will cause problems.

Not allowing connections that are too short is exactly what airlines do. If the connection is too short, they don't allow it - if you want to bust the Minimum Connection Time, you can't book it.

 

A connection that's at the MCT or thereabouts is not too short. It doesn't guarantee that everything will go perfectly, nor does it guarantee that you will make the connection. But that sort of thing is a fact of life when you travel, whatever your plans are: I've had things go wrong on a 10-hour connection when neither flight was late.

 

Your second post basically amounts to a disagreement with the airline about whether 45 minutes is an acceptable MCT (which is what it the relevant MCT was in DUS). However, the airline has the data on which that is based; you and I don't. I know plenty of small airports at which a 45 minute MCT is fine even for an ITI; I also know plenty of airports where I would not do a 90-minute connection even between domestic flights. Airlines know what is going on with each type of connection at each of its airports, and they set their MCTs accordingly. Remember - if they get it wrong, it can cost them a lot of money, so they have an incentive not to be too optimistic when setting MCTs.

 

However, if a particular passenger has a reason why they must get onto the next flight, and can't risk any delays, then they also have a brain which they can deploy. A connection that's close to MCT has a degree of risk, whatever the MCT is. If you don't like the risk, book a different connection. And most of all, don't book something that's 5 minutes outside the MCT, and then proclaim to the world that you thought you had "plenty of time" to make the connection, because you only embarrass yourself.

[waterbug123]

But 50 minutes between two international flights is always tight.

 

MCT can't be adjusted for every possible delay but with a 50 minutes connection even very small delays will cause problems.

 

While I would never intentionally book a 50 minute international connection, I also would not say that it's "always tight." I've made international connections in less time, but that's really neither here nor there.

 

What you don't seem to understand is that MCT is the MINIMUM you are ALLOWED to book, not a guarantee that all will go perfectly if you book it. Every pax has to decide for themselves what is reasonable to book based on their individual set of circumstances.

 

You say you realize MCT can't be adjusted to allow for every possible delay, but apparently you think it should be adjusted for SOME delays. How much is enough? Make it 60 min, and some pax would needed 62 min will complain. Make it 70, and the pax who needed 75 will complain, and on and on. Pretty soon you'll have MCT of 3 hours and someone whose inbound was delayed 3.5 hours will say, "The MCT time was 3 hours so they KNEW it would take AT LEAST 3 hours and should have allowed a little extra for delays."