Adequate compensation?

[binkey36]

I would like some opinions, insight, and advise from my fellow CC'ers. I apologize for the length of the post beforehand. I have to cover some ground.

 

My husband, father (90), his partner (80), and I sailed on the Oosterdam in April. It was a 36 day cruise from Auckland to Vancouver. Unfortunately, there was an outbreak of Influenza B on this cruise. It had devastating results.

 

The second day of the cruise, the vanity electrical outlet in my father's room shorted out. When it did so, it shorted out and destroyed my dad's CPAP converter. He has a heart condition, and use of his CPAP is crucial. He notified the pursers office. To make a long story short, it was not fixed until after it blew out the hairdryer and refrigerator in the room. This was about 1 week after the problem was report. We were unable to replace his converter until 2 weeks after this occurred. HAL has not offered to reimburse him for the converter.

 

Then my dad and his partner contracted the flu. They were confined to their stateroom. We were in the south pacific at this point. The HVAC unit in their room went out. Again, the purser was notified. The crew brought in a small electric fan to circulate the air. To further complicate the situation, the staff was not coming into clean their room. The air in the room was hot (90's) and it was foul smelling. They requested to be moved to another cabin. That request was not meet. Several days later, the HVAC was fixed. However, by this time it was determined that they needed to be medically discharged from the ship.

 

They had HAL travel insurance, so , no problem, right? Wrong. I was assured that HAL dealt with this situation all the time. They would be taken care of. That didn't happen. They were basically abandoned once they were taken off the ship. They were both hospitalized. The hospital social worker made flight and hotel arrangements for them to get home, once they were discharged. After submitting all required documentation to HAL insurance in May, we are still waiting for full reimbursement of their covered expenses.

 

My travel agent submitted my letter to HAL explaining what had occurred. In my letter, I explained that neither my father or his partner will ever cruise again. The cruise, the stateroom, being abandoned in the South Pacific, was a nightmare for them. HAL has offered $500 future cruise credit, a wine package, and dinner in the Pinnacle Grill. They are aware that my father and his partner will not cruise again. Therefore, it seems to me, that they are not offering anything at all.

 

I will be contacting the dept of ins regarding the HAL insurance, but I am at a loss as far as what to do about HAL.

 

Any insights or suggestions would be appreciated.

[RocketMan275]

What compensation did you ask for?

[3rdGenCunarder]

Wow, it sounds like the trip of a lifetime became the trip from hell.

 

I've never used HAL's insurance, so I don't know what their payment time frame is like, but I think from May until now is way too long. Just keep after them. Can your TA help with that? I don't know what's included in HAL's coverage, but insurance often is just about the money, and you have to deal with logistics. Some travel insurance policies come with "concierge service," someone you can call in an emergency. I don't know how helpful that really is.

 

What did your father do after the CPAP converter blew out? Were you able to get a replacement? Will the insurance cover that cost? If not, HAL fried it, they should pay for the replacement.

 

As for compensation beyond replacing the CPAP (which I think HAL should pay for), I'm not sure HAL is obligated to give you anything. They will say that catching the flu was your father and partner's fault, not HAL's fault. Thus, the need to leave the cruise early resulted from something that wasn't HAL's fault.

 

Refunds are rare, usually only given when a cruise ends early (partial cancellation). Compensation is usually given in the form of future cruise credits, future OBC, and other "freebies." I agree that these have no value to you since your father and his partner won't cruise again. But that's what cruise lines do. You could try contacting them again to point out that their "compensation" doesn't do anything for you.

[sail7seas]

I'm very sorry for the poor experience your DF and his partner had on HAL.

 

Two things leap immediately to my mind:

 

If they have stated so firmly they will never sail HAL again, HAL has little motivation to be generous in trying to satisfy their request for compensation..

 

I cannot determine from your post if you disembarked with these two quite senior gentlemen? Did you stay aboard or go with them to assist with their needs?

 

[binkey36]

What compensation did you ask for?

 

Our TA requested $1000 each in compensation, and reimbursement for the converter.

 

HAL's insurance does have concierge assistance. Apparently, they didn't have anyone to fit that description in Pago Pago.

 

My dad refers to it as his cruise from hell. It is truly a shame. He and his partner were ready to book a round the world cruise with HAL once they returned from this cruise.

 

I know it is unusual for a cruise line to refund any or all of a cruise fare. I also know that the flu might not be HAL's fault. But, you have to understand, this was a major influenza outbreak onboard the ship. Passengers and crew were lined up and down the corridors at the medical clinic. The clinic ran out of cough medicine, and over the counter pain and fever relievers. You could not be in any public place without hearing people coughing continuously. Unfortunately, no CODE RED was ever called. People were serving themselves at the buffet, etc. The ship sent a bottle of hand sanitizer to all the rooms. Lastly, there was no notification of an influenza outbreak prior to sailing. According to crew members, the outbreak started on the cruise before ours. Given my dad's age/health etc. he might have cancelled beforehand, if he had know.

 

I don't know what is right or wrong. I am not slamming HAL because of the flu. I just things should have been handled differently. The worst part, in my opinion, is that they abandoned an elderly couple, in Pago Pago.

[avian777]

Best advice is to contact a lawyer if you have not done so already. And, if you have already engaged a lawyer, get advice from him/her and follow it to a "T".

[binkey36]

I'm very sorry for the poor experience your DF and his partner had on HAL.

 

Two things leap immediately to my mind:

 

If they have stated so firmly they will never sail HAL again, HAL has little motivation to be generous in trying to satisfy their request for compensation..

 

I cannot determine from your post if you disembarked with these two quite senior gentlemen? Did you stay aboard or go with them to assist with their needs?

 

 

You are absolutely correct, HAL has little motivation to be generous. Therefore, they are failing to compensate this couple at all.

 

My husband and I were unable to disembark with them, because our cruise insurance would not have covered it. My dad's cruise insurance would not cover our fare either. I notified family members in the states of the situation. They attempted to get assistance for the parents, but none was provided.

 

Thank god for social workers!

[3rdGenCunarder]

You are absolutely correct, HAL has little motivation to be generous. Therefore, they are failing to compensate this couple at all.

 

My husband and I were unable to disembark with them, because our cruise insurance would not have covered it. My dad's cruise insurance would not cover our fare either. I notified family members in the states of the situation. They attempted to get assistance for the parents, but none was provided.

 

Thank god for social workers!

 

Your insurance wouldn't cover a "family emergency?" I can understand that your father's insurance wouldn't cover you, but I'm surprised your insurance wouldn't have covered that. You are VERY lucky that the hospital had such good social workers. From what I've seen of social workers in US hospitals, I wouldn't have left a family member in a foreign hospital. To hell with the cost and the insurance, I'd have disembarked with my dad.

[DaveOKC]

What a mess - HAL should certainly do more for you than what is offered IMO.

 

As a side note regarding the CPAP and other appliances blowing out. I had the same thing happen to me on a cruise with my electric razor while using it in the bathroom. In my case, the problem was that the outlet has a TINY switch on it that regulates the power, from either 110 (US and Canada) to 220 (most of the rest of the world) and this switch had been set to 220, so my razor blew right out. Since you were coming from Australia, I suspect that the last person to use it in your cabin had switched it to 220. What is real bad is that the writing (110/220) is very small and in my case was a light gold against a while background, so it is very hard to see and read.

[sail7seas]

Your insurance wouldn't cover a "family emergency?" I can understand that your father's insurance wouldn't cover you, but I'm surprised your insurance wouldn't have covered that. You are VERY lucky that the hospital had such good social workers. From what I've seen of social workers in US hospitals, I wouldn't have left a family member in a foreign hospital. To hell with the cost and the insurance, I'd have disembarked with my dad.

 

I, too, wonder what insurance would not pay for them to disembark with a sick family member with whom they were traveling? I hope OP tells us the company as that is not an insurance some of us would wish to purchase.

 

 

 

 

What a mess - HAL should certainly do more for you than what is offered IMO.

 

As a side note regarding the CPAP and other appliances blowing out. I had the same thing happen to me on a cruise with my electric razor while using it in the bathroom. In my case, the problem was that the outlet has a TINY switch on it that regulates the power, from either 110 (US and Canada) to 220 (most of the rest of the world) and this switch had been set to 220, so my razor blew right out. Since you were coming from Australia, I suspect that the last person to use it in your cabin had switched it to 220. What is real bad is that the writing (110/220) is very small and in my case was a light gold against a while background, so it is very hard to see and read.

 

GREAT point about the 110/220 outlet. I likely would not have thought to look and if the switch was set to 110. Hopefully you saved some of us from an electrical mishap.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

What a mess - HAL should certainly do more for you than what is offered IMO.

 

As a side note regarding the CPAP and other appliances blowing out. I had the same thing happen to me on a cruise with my electric razor while using it in the bathroom. In my case, the problem was that the outlet has a TINY switch on it that regulates the power, from either 110 (US and Canada) to 220 (most of the rest of the world) and this switch had been set to 220, so my razor blew right out. Since you were coming from Australia, I suspect that the last person to use it in your cabin had switched it to 220. What is real bad is that the writing (110/220) is very small and in my case was a light gold against a while background, so it is very hard to see and read.

 

Hmm, interesting. I took "vanity" to mean the outlets near the mirror over the desk. OP did say it blew out the fridge, which is not in the bathroom. But I know what you mean about the 110/220 difference. I had a dual voltage hair dryer, and even on the 220 setting, it burned out after two uses in England.

[Lizzie68]

I don't know what to tell you - other than I would also have gotten off the ship with my father, but that doesn't help with the compensation issue. What bothers me most are the ongoing maintenance issues on the ships. What is adequate compensation? Well I guess HAL will try to pay out the least possible. What might help you is my experience.... We boarded for a 20 day cruise, and our Neptune suite had been flooded due to a burst hot water pipe. With two large blow dryers in the room, if anything else was turned on at all, the fuses blew. No TV, no hair dryer, etc. That lasted about 4 days, and we unplugged the blowers when we needed to use anything else. Then, no hot water for two weeks. Constant in and out of maintenance workers, people to check that we really did not have hot water every day (because of course we could not be believed:rolleyes:) meant a complete lack of privacy for much of the cruise.

During this time we received PG Dinners, flowers, chocolate covered strawberries, the usual apology stuff.

 

In spite of it all we had a fantastic cruise, and built a very good friendship with the various levels of crew and officers. Towards the end of the cruise we received an OBC of much more than you are being offered in compensation, and for our "patience". Perhaps that fact will help you.

Overall, however, is that ongoing worry about ship maintenance with HAL and the lack of speedy response when something malfunctions. But as to the 'flu issue you had, I don't believe HAL can be held responsible for that. These things do happen on all cruise lines and other places.

 

Hope that helps.

[whogo]

Shame about the troubles you are having. I would expect Holland America's insurance to pay out whatever the policy says it will pay. I would not be surprised if they are able to weasel out on some pre-existing condition or pre-authorization technicality. I would ask for compensation for the cpap converter, although if I were HAL I would suspect that the converter caused the short circuit in the first place. Sorry, I don't see HAL coming through with $1000.

 

Was it really a flu outbreak or was it a gastro-intestinal illness (so-called stomach flu)?

 

I do not know much about health care in Pago Pago, but I would rather take my chances with shipboard medical facilities than be off-loaded in Samoa.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

Was it really a flu outbreak or was it a gastro-intestinal illness (so-called stomach flu)?

 

I do not know much about health care in Pago Pago, but I would rather take my chances with shipboard medical facilities than be off-loaded in Samoa.

 

Op wrote this:

 

 

 

binky

<snip>

 

The clinic ran out of cough medicine, and over the counter pain and fever relievers. You could not be in any public place without hearing people coughing continuously. Unfortunately, no CODE RED was ever called. People were serving themselves at the buffet, etc. The ship sent a bottle of hand sanitizer to all the rooms. Lastly, there was no notification of an influenza outbreak prior to sailing. According to crew members, the outbreak started on the cruise before ours. Given my dad's age/health etc. he might have cancelled beforehand, if he had know.

 

The clinic would not run out of cough medicine and pain relievers from a Noro like virus outbreak. I hate to hear flu season has begun already. Seems early. Hopefully it doesn't mean a long flu season.

 

The OP's father may not have been given a choice about being medically debarked. The doctor makes that decision,, consults with the Captain the patient has little say when that decision is made.

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by sail7seas

[Roz]

Given that Pago Pago is part of American Somoa, the medical facilities are not third world. There may even be a chance you would be covered by Medicare, as I know for a fact that the residents of Guam receive Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

 

To the OP, wow, what a mess. I'm so sorry. Did someone contact HAL insurance when your father and his partner were taken off the ship in Pago Pago to let them know an incident had occurred? If so, did the insurance co. offer any direction or advice? The reason I'm asking is that most insurance requires that you let the insurance agent or company know ASAP when an incident has taken place. They open a ticket and claims are filed against that claim number. They usually offer advice, depending on the nature of the incident, as to how to proceed and what documentation to procure and file. If this wasn't done, it may be what's holding up payment of the claim. Surely HAL had a file on this, as I would think that when a passenger has to be taken off, there's a boatload (pun intended) of paperwork that accompanies that decision.

 

Let us know the outcome. How are your father and his partner doing?

 

Roz

[aliaschief]

Op wrote this:

 

 

 

 

The clinic would not run out of cough medicine and pain relievers from a Noro like virus outbreak. I hate to hear flu season has begun already. Seems early. Hopefully it doesn't mean a long flu season.

 

The OP's father may not have been given a choice about being medically debarked. The doctor makes that decision,, consults with the Captain the patient has little say when that decision is made.

 

 

 

I was on this cruise.It was an upper respiratory outbreak. I came down with it and had to go to the clinic and was given antibiotics. The ship's Doctor told me in all his years at sea he had never seen so many sick people. The clinic was open some night to midnight seeing patients.

 

The Showroom At Sea sounded like a TB Ward. I believe they did run out of some meds.

[sail7seas]

Awful...... I knew it couldn't be Noro if the Infirmary ran out of cough medicine. Hope you were able to shake it off quickly. My DH once got 'cruise ship crud' as we called it and he had a cough and felt wiped out for weeks until he shook it off. His doctor gave him antibiotics when we got home.

[OVgirl]

On reading the coverage for HAL's Platinum Insurance, you should have gotten reimbursed for all your medical expenses. And it does allow for family emergencies while you are on vacation. HAL does not manage this insurance, it is through Aon Affinity on behalf of Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company. On the HAL website you can find a copy of the policy and everything that is covered. Hope you are able to get your refund soon.

[sail7seas]

On reading the coverage for HAL's Platinum Insurance, you should have gotten reimbursed for all your medical expenses. And it does allow for family emergencies while you are on vacation. HAL does not manage this insurance, it is through Aon Affinity on behalf of Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company. On the HAL website you can find a copy of the policy and everything that is covered. Hope you are able to get your refund soon.

 

:confused: Did HAL change their Platinum policy recently?

 

I thought the maximum they paid for medical bills is $10,000.

I always called their policy a cancellation policy, not a travel insurance policy, as their coverage is so low for medical.

 

Anyone on Medicare of if their usual medical insurance does not pay out of country, should look at policies which will pay something more than that small amount. Medicare does not pay out of the country but for few exceptions. It's a great question if Medicare pays in Pago Pago/American Samoa.

 

 

[ithaca gal]

Sadly, I don't think it was a plus to tell HAL that your father will never sail again as there is no incentive whatsoever to try and earn his business back. I'm very sorry about the cruise from hell for him. I, too, would have disembarked with my father, rather than leave him in a faraway place -- and fought the insurance company later.

 

I don't think what he is asking for is outrageous, but doubt that it would ever happen. Would have been easier to ask for a low-cost cruise somewhere else as a "do over".

[sammiedawg]

What a nightmare, this is a shameful situation. We've had Hollamd America maintenance issues ourselves but not of this magnitude.

My advice would be to seek out a cruise or travel ombudsman, the ones that write for cruise and travel magazines and web sites.,Arthur Frommer comes to mind. Tell your story and be willing to have it published. Another option would be go to your local media, consumer type reporters.

You said your father and partner will not sail HAL again. I hope you don't either, they don't deserve your return business.

[binkey36]

Given that Pago Pago is part of American Somoa, the medical facilities are not third world. There may even be a chance you would be covered by Medicare, as I know for a fact that the residents of Guam receive Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

 

To the OP, wow, what a mess. I'm so sorry. Did someone contact HAL insurance when your father and his partner were taken off the ship in Pago Pago to let them know an incident had occurred? If so, did the insurance co. offer any direction or advice? The reason I'm asking is that most insurance requires that you let the insurance agent or company know ASAP when an incident has taken place. They open a ticket and claims are filed against that claim number. They usually offer advice, depending on the nature of the incident, as to how to proceed and what documentation to procure and file. If this wasn't done, it may be what's holding up payment of the claim. Surely HAL had a file on this, as I would think that when a passenger has to be taken off, there's a boatload (pun intended) of paperwork that accompanies that decision.

 

 

Let us know the outcome. How are your father and his partner doing?

 

Roz

 

Thank you Roz.

 

First, I must clarify why I did not disembark with my father. He is a very young 90. He did not feel that he needed my assistance on shore. All of us were told that HAL insurance had been notified, and would have someone take care of all issues for them when they were medically disembarked. I was assured that someone would 'hold their hands and guide them' until they got home. They told me the HAL port authority would also stay in contact with them. None of that occurred. I would also point out that it would have been a $20k hit for my husband and myself to get off the ship. My dad and his partner were covered for the unused portion of their cruise..we were not. If my dad had seemed to have a life threatening condition, I would have disembarked...damn the cost. But he did not. He was sick and tired of the cabin problems, response of the staff, and sick with the flu (Influenza B...cough...fever...chills....lousy).

 

 

 

Pago Pago is an american territory. It is not like being in the USA however. The LBJ hospital is the equivalent of a medical clinic...no wheelchairs...no gowns for the patients...very little of anything. My dad and his partner were so touched by the social workers attention and assistance that they have purchased and sent much needed items to the hospital.

 

Other posters indicated the CPAP might have caused the problem. It did not. The room steward directed my dad to use the power source at the vanity. That is the same outlet I used on this cruise, and many others, for my CPAP. The problem was with the outlet not the machine.

 

I actually hate revisiting all of this. I get upset all over again.

 

Again, I thank everyone for their insights, opinions and advise.

[binkey36]

I was on this cruise.It was an upper respiratory outbreak. I came down with it and had to go to the clinic and was given antibiotics. The ship's Doctor told me in all his years at sea he had never seen so many sick people. The clinic was open some night to midnight seeing patients.

 

The Showroom At Sea sounded like a TB Ward. I believe they did run out of some meds.

 

Hi Bruce! Hope you recovered from your bout of the flu as well. Bob and I are currently in Cudjoe Key, FL, enjoying your beautiful state.

[binkey36]

On reading the coverage for HAL's Platinum Insurance, you should have gotten reimbursed for all your medical expenses. And it does allow for family emergencies while you are on vacation. HAL does not manage this insurance, it is through Aon Affinity on behalf of Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company. On the HAL website you can find a copy of the policy and everything that is covered. Hope you are able to get your refund soon.

 

Thanks so much for your insight. I am still working with the adjuster at HAL. Today, I was told they had finally found the scanned receipts and hoped to be issuing payment shortly. We will see.

 

My dad and his partner had travel insurance coverage through HAL. My husband and I had coverage through another carrier. I checked with my carrier before the ship left Pago Pago. If my father had died, or was hospitalized in critical condition we could have submitted a request for trip interruption insurance. Thank God, neither of those things applied.

[lazey1]

Please try to get over the feeling that your father and his companion were abandoned by HAL. The Doctor on the ship determined that they were not well enough to continue the cruise and transferred them to a hospital so that they could get the care that they needed. It is very unfortunate that they got sick.

 

Has the insurance company ( not HAL) acknowleged your fathers claim for his C-Pap? If not submit the claim again.

Edited October 15, 2015 by lazey1