Cruise safety in Middle East

[cruisemom42]

I am getting one chance for the med and had istanbul booked for next year....after reading about the cancellations on cc we decided to change our itinerary so we would have more control over where we would end up....still have Ephesus on the list so that will be as far as we get into the middle east....I would love to see egypt,etc but I guess it won't be in this lifetime....

 

There are still plenty of land trips that visit Egypt on a regular basis, as well as occasional cruise ships -- though a cruise really isn't the ideal way to visit Egypt. The sites you want to see most are not close to the available ports at all. (Not to mention the already discussed propensity for cruise lines to cancel these ports quite frequently....)

Edited November 10, 2015 by cruisemom42

[wowzz]

I will tell you that some of these places are much safer than other parts of the world and that includes certain areas in the USA.

 

As part of a very long cruise we were on in 2010, we sailed close to 30 days in the Middle East and went to places that cruise lines would not stop today including Iran and Kuwait City and Saudi Arabia. We also stopped in three ports in the UAE, two ports in Oman, Israel, Bahrain and Egypt. People thought it was crazy to go. We even were a little nervous at first (had been to some of these places before but not ones such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait) but this has to be the most remarkable lengthily cruise we've ever been on and a big part of it was those days in the Middle East. We learned so much and it changed our thinking on some large world events.

 

Even then there were some areas where we had to keep the shades down and we had to stay inside the ship and extra security was brought on board the ship.

 

Israel like NYC is one of the safest places on Earth and many of these other places are quite safe. Yes, I would avoid a few of they places but I would have no worries in Oman, Jordan and Israel.

 

You have a higher chance of getting killed in your car or just go to Chicago.

 

You could have been on the Subway in Spain? How about the terrorist attacks many years ago in Tokyo? How about the issues in London. How about the issues in France just a couple of years ago? How about 9/11 in NYC? Often it is the places that you don't think will be an issue will be. How about the tourists that were targets just a couple of years ago in Barbados? I am more fearful to get off in Jamaica than to be in Oman? How about the ships that stop in Africa. Even Cape Town has issues.

 

How about some of the small boats people get onto on tours not knowing the safety record of the tour operator or Helicopters and again you don't know the standards of the tour operator let alone the pilot.

 

If one wants the security of travel than best to stay home but remember you could trip getting out of bed and smack your head on an end table.

 

Not saying to do dumb things but there really is risk anytime you travel including ones own home country.

 

Keith

 

Excellent, well considered post. The most dangerous part of any cruise is the drive to the airport/cruise terminal.

[searoses]

It doesn't really matter what the passenger thinks about safety......it's the company that will decide for you......

[sail7seas]

I will tell you that some of these places are much safer than other parts of the world and that includes certain areas in the USA.

 

As part of a very long cruise we were on in 2010, we sailed close to 30 days in the Middle East and went to places that cruise lines would not stop today including Iran and Kuwait City and Saudi Arabia. We also stopped in three ports in the UAE, two ports in Oman, Israel, Bahrain and Egypt. People thought it was crazy to go. We even were a little nervous at first (had been to some of these places before but not ones such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait) but this has to be the most remarkable lengthily cruise we've ever been on and a big part of it was those days in the Middle East. We learned so much and it changed our thinking on some large world events.

 

Even then there were some areas where we had to keep the shades down and we had to stay inside the ship and extra security was brought on board the ship.

 

Israel like NYC is one of the safest places on Earth and many of these other places are quite safe. Yes, I would avoid a few of they places but I would have no worries in Oman, Jordan and Israel.

 

You have a higher chance of getting killed in your car or just go to Chicago.

 

You could have been on the Subway in Spain? How about the terrorist attacks many years ago in Tokyo? How about the issues in London. How about the issues in France just a couple of years ago? How about 9/11 in NYC? Often it is the places that you don't think will be an issue will be. How about the tourists that were targets just a couple of years ago in Barbados? I am more fearful to get off in Jamaica than to be in Oman? How about the ships that stop in Africa. Even Cape Town has issues.

 

How about some of the small boats people get onto on tours not knowing the safety record of the tour operator or Helicopters and again you don't know the standards of the tour operator let alone the pilot.

 

If one wants the security of travel than best to stay home but remember you could trip getting out of bed and smack your head on an end table.

 

Not saying to do dumb things but there really is risk anytime you travel including ones own home country.

 

Keith

 

 

 

What was true in 2010 is not necessarily reality of today.

 

So much has changed in five years. Had you heard of Isis in 2010? Had there been Arab Spring? Were there tens of thousands killed in Syria? Were people standing at bus stops in Israel stabbed with no provocation or prior interaction with the attacker? Etc Etc Etc

 

Condition in the Middle East are extremely different now vs then.

 

[Keith1010]

What was true in 2010 is not necessarily reality of today.

 

So much has changed in five years. Had you heard of Isis in 2010? Had there been Arab Spring? Were there tens of thousands killed in Syria? Were people standing at bus stops in Israel stabbed with no provocation or prior interaction with the attacker? Etc Etc Etc

 

Condition in the Middle East are extremely different now vs then.

 

 

Not really.

 

We didn't go to Syria, nor Iraq and that is true today.

 

It's really not much different right now.

 

You have to visit to know.

 

People said the same thing when our itinerary was announced in 2008 for 2010. Remember, Iran had a lunatic President when we visited. There were still all sorts of issues in Iraq.

 

I stand by what I have said.

 

I would be more terrified to go to parts of Los Angeles or Chicago than to visit Oman, UAE, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

 

I do believe that acts of violence will continue to happen in places that we lease suspect.

 

Keith

Edited November 10, 2015 by Keith1010

[moniquet]

What was true in 2010 is not necessarily reality of today.

 

So much has changed in five years. Had you heard of Isis in 2010? Had there been Arab Spring? Were there tens of thousands killed in Syria? Were people standing at bus stops in Israel stabbed with no provocation or prior interaction with the attacker? Etc Etc Etc

 

Condition in the Middle East are extremely different now vs then.

 

 

Agree.

[Husky61]

Happy Planning.

 

You couldn't give me a cruise to that part of the world right now.

 

Sailing in 2018,,,, way too far out for me to even imagine booking anything. I like to plan but that is silly to book now, IMO

 

 

If you won't take the cruise, I will.:D

[cruisemom42]

 

So much has changed in five years. Had you heard of Isis in 2010? Had there been Arab Spring? Were there tens of thousands killed in Syria? Were people standing at bus stops in Israel stabbed with no provocation or prior interaction with the attacker? Etc Etc Etc

 

Condition in the Middle East are extremely different now vs then.

 

 

With the exception of ISIS, I would not say conditions are extremely different now versus any time in the recent (or even not so recent past).

 

Flare-ups between Israel and the Palestinians happen with regularity. Buses have for many years been a target for terrorists in Israel.

 

Going back a little further, 62 tourists were killed in Egypt in 1997 at Luxor (at the Temple of Hatshepsut). People thought the situation was dangerous when I first went to Egypt not too long thereafter.

 

Or back further still: my parents visited the Middle East on a long trip in the 1970s. Beirut was considered one of the "safer" places they went. Shortly after, Beirut was nearly demolished in the Lebanese civil war that lasted 15 years, until 1990. And yet I was able to visit there a decade later safely (along with Syria).

 

People can decide for themselves what level of risk is acceptable. But the average tourist faces very little risk when traveling, compared with the normal daily risks of driving, etc., at home. Somehow the very slight risk just seems more scary.

[sail7seas]

It's very simple.........

 

You want to go,,,,, have fun and travel safely.

 

I don't wish to go and will not be booking anything for that part of the world.

 

There is no right or wrong. It is personal choice.

 

Given we are not to discuss politics on CC, we can't get into specifics of all that is different in Middle East and Arab World in the last five years.

Edited November 11, 2015 by sail7seas

[sfaaa]

Yeah, do what you want but if you find yourself in trouble and in need of immediate help in ME, don't expect SEAL Team Six or USMC to come charging in and save you from harm. That is all.

[BeagleOne]

Crazed? Not like us?

 

You do not see it? I used her exact words....

 

Not really. There's a difference between "crazed and do not like us", which is what the poster said, and "crazed and are not like us", which is what your post implied the poster said.

[WaveSplasher]

As with other cruise ports...there is always that risk when you step out and explore uncharted territory that you never been too. When you are going to places like the middle east, this is where you need to be extra careful. Always keep a lookout for anything suspicious, and if you don't feel right being there, get out.

 

Also the ship might even cancel the port at the last minute so you don't really have a guarantee

 

At best you could just stay on the ship and enjoy the facilities they have on offer.

 

In all, you are the only one that can judge it for yourself, whether you want to take the risk or not.

[moniquet]

Of course there are risks in everyday life, be it just driving to the shop, or slipping in the kitchen. However, these are unknown risks. Most sensible people wouldn't knowingly put them self at risk by driving with faulty brakes or walking alone in a seedy part of town.

 

We loved Seeing the valley of Kings but would not return after tourists were shot there. The world is a more dangerous place now and it is not just the ability of terrorists to strike, it is how some countries have the ability to respond to these threats. For the time being quite a few places are off my bucket list. I trust airport security in the UK. USA and a few places in Europe but after seeing chaotic scenes at some Airports re. Security in Africa I prefer not to take the risk right now.

[Keith1010]

Too often people react to the news which is so sensational that you think that it is happening all through the country. Does the bad side of Chicago represent all of Chicago or the entire USA.

 

Reminds me of last year. We were on a world cruise and one of the segment involved South Africa and some people cancelled that segment because of Ebola in West Africa. The distance between the two areas is enormous but they got scared from the news.

 

Yes, there are some places that we avoid when we cruise and just stay on the ship. But I would not avoid Jordan (lost city of Petra), Israel, Oman, UAE and several other countries because of ISIS.

 

Now I am careful whom we fly, where we fly and what airplane we fly but I would have no hesitation doing a cruise that included these places starting and ending in places such as Rome.

 

Again, many get caught up in what is reported.

 

Even take Iran. About 85% of the people are like anyone you would meet including in the USA. It's the 15% who are the issue but the news that one seas for years makes the 15% look like 100%.

 

I am also reminded of Hong Kong. People were scared to go with the demonstrations because you would think from the media that it was impacting all of Hong Kong when it was not.

 

In the end each person will do what they feel comfortable with but for me I would feel safer in most of these countries (not all but most) than in some cities in our own country or versus certain places in the Caribbean, Africa (not all but some) and many other places.

 

As to ship safety, the insurance companies will either not allow the ships to sail in certain places or they would add stipulations when it comes to security.

 

Remember, it is those places that seem calm that turn out to be a problem and that includes schools in the USA and even shopping malls and churches and movie theaters where horrific acts unfortunately occur too frequently nowadays.

 

Keith

[Kris74]

There are risks you have to take, like driving to work and there are risks you dont have to take like driving high speed intoxicated or going near an Isis base or flying in an African aeroplane.

 

Adding risks you dont really have to take onto your life, is maybe not so wise. But then there are people who consider the plusses outweight the cons so much that the risks are worth taking. So it differs so much from person to person what kind of unnecessary risks they are prepared to take. And everyone decides for herself. But to say that there are no risks involved going to areas around Isis problem, would be selfdenying IMO. And this from an European point of view.

[Keith1010]

There are risks no matter what you do in life.

 

And when you travel there are risks anywhere you go.

 

I certainly never said there would not be risks.

 

But I do feel as safe in many of the places I noted as I would in many places in my own country.

 

Keith

[John Bull]

There are risks you have to take, like driving to work and there are risks you dont have to take like driving high speed intoxicated or going near an Isis base or flying in an African aeroplane.

 

Adding risks you dont really have to take onto your life, is maybe not so wise. But then there are people who consider the plusses outweight the cons so much that the risks are worth taking. So it differs so much from person to person what kind of unnecessary risks they are prepared to take. And everyone decides for herself. But to say that there are no risks involved going to areas around Isis problem, would be selfdenying IMO. And this from an European point of view.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

Yes, I can see the logic in your analogy.

But although it probably wasn't your intention, it perhaps suggests that the OP's itinerary equates to hi-speed drunk-driving.

Hi-speed drunk driving is almost certain to end in tears - very different to a cruise to the Middle East.

 

It's frequently (and accurately) reckoned on this forum that the chances of death or serious injury on a cruise are much lower than those of an accident driving to the airport to start the cruise.

Certainly the risks involved in the OP's itinerary are closer to those of the drive to the airport - but still comparatively low. :)

 

Drive safely, Jim ;)

 

JB :)

[cruisemom42]

A further word or two about risks....

 

First, I hope it is clear that none of the places listed by the original poster are considered risky enough by the US State Department to have a Travel Warning or Alert issued regarding travel there. The sole exception is Israel, and the Travel Warning only includes portions of the country where tourists do not usually end up (e.g., the West Bank and Gaza).

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings.html

 

If these areas are as risky as supposed by some here, why haven't warnings been issued? Absent such guidance, shouldn't the presumption be that it is not "too risky' to undertake travel to these places?

 

Second, there are a lot of odd analogies being used regarding risk. I've spent some time trying to come up with a more valid comparison, and I think I have done so:

 

Cruise ship-sponsored excursions are praised by many on Cruise Critic as safe and reliable. Like a cruise to the Middle East, they are solely undertaken for the enjoyment of the person involved, and no one is "required" to do either one involuntarily (leaving aside the question of staff).

 

If we look at ship-sponsored excursions over the past 5 years or so, there have been a number of incidents that have occurred, leading to fatalities, including:

 

-- 8 HAL passengers killed in flightseeing crash in Alaska

-- 1 person killed in zip line fall on cruise excursion in Puerto Rico

-- 1 person killed when struck by a truck on excursion in Belize

-- 1 person killed (and 3 injured) on an Arctic zodiac boat excursion

-- 2 pax killed in Mexico on RCCL dune buggy excursion

-- 9 pax killed (14 injured) in excursion bus crash in Morocco

-- 1 person killed and 2 seriously injured in Princess tour bus crash in Tortola

-- the fatality mentioned earlier by Hank, killed on a Carnival excursion in St. Thomas

 

So....perhaps we should all stop taking shore excursions. They appear to be very risky. :cool:

 

During this same period of time, I cannot find a single instance of a cruise passenger being killed in any of the ports mentioned by the OP.

[Keith1010]

The problem is that many people put labels on places.

 

They think because it is the Middle East that it isn't safe.

 

Many countries are so much safer there than in the USA or Europe because they are ruled tightly and the sentence for breaking the law is a very harsh penalty.

 

Often people think it's either this or that without thinking it all through.

 

Yes I wouldn't recommend going to Syria or Iraq but they are not on the list.

 

Oh well.

 

Many of these places you do have to see through your own eyes and not through the eyes of the 7x24 news that tries to make everything sensational.

 

Keith

[cruisemom42]

 

Many of these places you do have to see through your own eyes and not through the eyes of the 7x24 news that tries to make everything sensational.

 

Keith

 

I agree so much with this. There have been numerous posts on the Greece boards about how misleading the news coverage was during the past 3-4 years of strikes and protests. If you were to base your idea of how safe it is to visit Greece on the news coverage of a few protests in a very limited part of one city (Athens), you'd think that at any moment you might be at risk of being overwhelmed by angry mobs or riot police, when nothing could be farther from the truth....

 

As has been said many times, anyone can make their own decision based on their assessment of the risks. No one should scoff at someone's decision not to go based on their personal comfort level.

 

But at the same time, we should not allow incorrect assumptions about the actual risks to go unchallenged, nor should people who do elect to travel be subjected to belittling comments such as "Fine, go but don't expect the military to rescue you." :rolleyes:

[anniegb]

We have booked a cruise from Dubai with stops in Oman, Jordan, Suez Canal,Egypt, Israel and then into the MED.

We are concerned on the safety aspects in these countries and would appreciate any comments from recent cruises.

 

I assume it is a repo from Dubai back to mainland Europe??

 

I completed such a cruise in 2013 on MSC when Egypt was kicking off again but in reverse i.e. from Europe to Dubai.

 

I was also in Egypt when the terrorists shot the tourists in Luxor in 1997.

 

OK here is my take ; Dubai, Oman and Jordan were very safe when I was there and I would expect the same.

 

The ships transit Suez in convoys. MSC took on board some ex-UK army personnel after we transited Suez. They were more concerned for the passage after Suez to Dubai and there were absolutely no issues whatsoever. These guys worked 24/7 and had cabins on my deck.

 

I would place a bet on the POC in Israel and Egypt being cancelled.

 

Would I cancel?? Depending upon what I wanted out of the trip. Safety wise - no issue ; if I had my heart set on certain POC with a high probability of being cancelled - I would rethink.

 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

Annie

 

PS It was a very good cruise BTW.

Edited November 11, 2015 by anniegb

[sail7seas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisemom42 View Post

Crazed? Not like us?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisemom42 View Post

You do not see it? I used her exact words....

 

 

Beagle One

Not really. There's a difference between "crazed and do not like us", which is what the poster said, and "crazed and are not like us", which is what your post implied the poster said.

 

 

I think there may be a misunderstanding between the two.......

 

Cruisemom42 wrote: "Not like us?"

Does she mean they do not like us/find us likeable as people or does she mean, they are different than 'us' thus not like we are?

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by sail7seas

[slidergirl]

 

 

I think there may be a misunderstanding between the two.......

 

Cruisemom42 wrote: "Not like us?"

Does she mean they do not like us/find us likeable as people or does she mean, they are different than 'us' thus not like we are?

 

 

I think Cruisemom42 (my virtual sister ;) ) thought of CB's sentence the same way; That the people in the Middle East are "crazed" and do NOT like the Godless Americans.

Nothing is further from the truth. It is a gross over exaggeration of an entire mass of people based on behavior from some zealots.

I'm also one of those who have traveled to those "hotspots" and had positive, memorable experiences. One of those was a trip to Israel in 1998, when Saddam was lobbing Scud missiles into Tel Aviv. It was a business trip for my now-ex and I decided to go with him for vacation. Every other store was selling plastic sheeting and tape to make your "safe room." We were told to know where the US Embassy was so we could get there to grab a gas mask (it was down the street). It did not stop me from traveling all over the country. I even did some of the trips solo while he was working- hopping on busses and just walking around.

 

Everyone has their own comfort zones. Mine seems to be quite large. I won't begrudge anyone who does not want to go somewhere based on their own level of comfort. But, I DO mind when people try to paint a population with a broad, narrow-minded, brush.

 

Kind of like I would say I'm afraid to go to the United States because everyone is crazed and will shoot with their handguns at people at large in WalMart parking lots (look it up…)

Edited November 11, 2015 by slidergirl

[sail7seas]

I hope you are not implying I intended to paint all people in Middle East in the way you describe.

 

I never implied anything like that and it is not the case. I am not the narrow-minded person you mention and am sure you don't mean to insinuate I am but seeing you quoted me I want to clear that up.

 

I just don't want to be on the bad end of any sort of terrorist attack, bomb on an airplane or risky circumstance.

I also admit to being a little nervous when we were in Israel.

 

Edited November 11, 2015 by sail7seas

[slidergirl]

I hope you are not implying I intended to paint all people in Middle East in the way you describe.

 

I never implied anything like that and it is not the case. I am not the narrow-minded person you mention and am sure you don't mean to insinuate I am but seeing you quoted me I want to clear that up.

 

 

I was not implying you. Just commenting on the interpretation of the "crazed" statement. Trying to help you with figuring out what Cruisemom42 interpreted. You questioned and I tried to answer…