Has FDR done anything to benefit cruisers?

[NLH Arizona]

Loyal NCL cruiser here and have never cruised HAL or Celebrity. Can you comment on what upgrades NCL needs to be at the same level as Celebrity. I also wonder how much NCL will need to upgrade smaller ships (Star, Dawn, Spirit, Sun and even some of the Jewel-class ships) to complete with celebrity-like ships.

As someone who also cruises on Celebrity, it would take a lot of cosmetic work, as well as totally upgrading the food. And even if they did those things, they would still have to overcome the stigma that NCL is a budget/mass market line instead of a premium line. I believe it would take years and way too much marketing dollars to change people's perception of NCL. They have a niche and I think they should make improvements, but stay where they are.

[sparks1093]

Over on the X board, they are full of angst over degrading product and perception that value for loyal customers is disappearing as the line chases a new demographic (sound familiar?). That said I have one X cruise booked on am looking at two NCL.

 

Robert

 

Sounds like Del Rio's job has gotten easier than;).

[Loonbeam]

Doesn't matter. Except in a sole propietorship, the CEO or President has a duty of care to maximize value for the owners, all owners. The board (admittedly not always done) has a slightly different duty of care but also has a legal (duty of care is a legal term) regarding representation of shareholders even if those shareholders are venure capitalists, hedge funds or individuals. In short, a CEO must always act in the best interest of the shareholders/owners or they face legal liability for failing to do so (you can argue the relative failure to prosecute/sue can lead CEOs to make riskier decisions).

 

Now, does that mean that groups don't pack boards with crony CEOs and yes people? Yes, they do. Which goes back to my point.

 

The thread title is 'Has FDR done anything to benefit cruisers.' This implies that FDR is the sole decision maker and people paint him as some kind of rogue leader, making decisions on a whim and micromanaging one brand of the portfolio. This may be true, but if so, the failure is that of the board to allow it, and the failure of line leaders to accept it.

 

The board, ownership and senior management need to be on board for these decisions or they won't happen or happen badly. If you want to look at who does what for cruisers, you cannot focus on one individual.

 

Its also worthy of note that as of last filing, Apollo owns about 22% of NCL Holdings. Non institutional investors own 16.5 percent (rounded). The majority of stock is held via mutual funds and financial firms. So its not closely held at all.

 

There are certainly issues with the way Apollo does business that raise concerns, but they have held a significant ownership position since 2008, so that's not a new development.

 

Genting, btw, has been rumored to be considering an investment in CCL (if CCL is willing, which is an open question), in addition, their new venture Dream Cruises is coming on line, and they purchased Crystal so those may have triggered the sale of NCL to get them to a non-associative level to avoid potential long term anti-trust concerns among other things. Not to mention they have significant amount of cash outlay for these ventures AND their shares would have been diluted by a potential new $20M offering.

 

 

(Disclosure - I AM an NCL shareholder, albeit not large scale and I do read the shareholder reports, as I do with all stocks I own individually)

 

 

 

 

 

Apollo and TPG were the controlling stockholders of both NCLH and PCH before the merger and remain in control of NCLH after the merger. Exactly what "principals" are having their "tenents of care" violated? Only a small percentage of NCLH stock is held by the public. NCLH is a closely held corporation and its bylaws make it virtually impossible for a director to be elected to the board without insider approval.

[CasinoCruzGirl]

As someone who also cruises on Celebrity, it would take a lot of cosmetic work, as well as totally upgrading the food. And even if they did those things, they would still have to overcome the stigma that NCL is a budget/mass market line instead of a premium line. I believe it would take years and way too much marketing dollars to change people's perception of NCL. They have a niche and I think they should make improvements, but stay where they are.

 

Aren't you on a cruise or are u back?

[Jane Don]

Not a single change benefits me and my family. The changing corporate culture is what I find most distressing though. NCL is like Walmart now. Sure, if you are buying a 70" screen TV, they will give you time and attention but ask for help finding the lunchboxes and get attitude. I no longer feel that NCL values me as customer. We are a young family and I feel they are chasing us away.

 

I booked a trip on Carnival and am looking at RCI. If I am going to spend the big bucks, I will try Disney. I fear though, my NCL days will be over following my upcoming trip.

[NLH Arizona]

Aren't you on a cruise or are u back?

 

Disembarked today. Had a great cruise on the Dawn. In New Orleans, heading home tomorrow. Thanks for asking.

Edited December 14, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[firefighter15]

We are a young family and I feel they are chasing us away. I fear though, my NCL days will be over following my upcoming trip.

 

I feel the same way, i am 42 and have young kids. I am taking them on the Sky in February for there first trip and my first suite experience. I am apprehensive about how things will be with the changes.

[abe3]

Not a single change benefits me and my family. The changing corporate culture is what I find most distressing though. NCL is like Walmart now. Sure, if you are buying a 70" screen TV, they will give you time and attention but ask for help finding the lunchboxes and get attitude. I no longer feel that NCL values me as customer. We are a young family and I feel they are chasing us away.

 

I booked a trip on Carnival and am looking at RCI. If I am going to spend the big bucks, I will try Disney. I fear though, my NCL days will be over following my upcoming trip.

 

 

I feel the opposite. Have been given great deals under FDR and the promotions are also great. I haven't noticed much of a price increase in the fares unless you are looking at the prime holiday cruising seasons like Christmas and spring breaks.

 

I paid less on my upcoming cruises and received more benefits than I have in the past. I will keep on going on NCL until I feel it is not worth the money then I will look elsewhere, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[NLH Arizona]

I will keep on going on NCL until I feel it is not worth the money then I will look elsewhere, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I feel the same and will continue cruising with NCL until I don't see the value for my $'s, but understand that some have a different idea of what their value is and I wish them well in whatever they choose to do in the future, as far as cruising is concerned.

[barnacle_boy]

Both lines have already benefitted from back office synergies.

 

 

Throwing out the old regime and replacing them with Prestige "yes men" has done very little good thus far. They've not only thrown out the people, they've thrown out the rules. Completely new management systems and philosophies from Oceania that are, to be honest, backwards and have no place in mass market cruising. At the moment they are still in a constant state of flux, because they can't seem to figure out why these brilliant Oceania concepts aren't scaling well with a much larger fleet and ships.

 

It's like watching a man throw away a flashlight, simply because it isn't "his," and then blindly groping through the dark trying to find his way. It's becoming pathetic.

[njhorseman]

Doesn't matter. Except in a sole propietorship, the CEO or President has a duty of care to maximize value for the owners, all owners. The board (admittedly not always done) has a slightly different duty of care but also has a legal (duty of care is a legal term) regarding representation of shareholders even if those shareholders are venure capitalists, hedge funds or individuals. In short, a CEO must always act in the best interest of the shareholders/owners or they face legal liability for failing to do so (you can argue the relative failure to prosecute/sue can lead CEOs to make riskier decisions).

 

Now, does that mean that groups don't pack boards with crony CEOs and yes people? Yes, they do. Which goes back to my point.

 

The thread title is 'Has FDR done anything to benefit cruisers.' This implies that FDR is the sole decision maker and people paint him as some kind of rogue leader, making decisions on a whim and micromanaging one brand of the portfolio. This may be true, but if so, the failure is that of the board to allow it, and the failure of line leaders to accept it.

 

The board, ownership and senior management need to be on board for these decisions or they won't happen or happen badly. If you want to look at who does what for cruisers, you cannot focus on one individual.

 

Its also worthy of note that as of last filing, Apollo owns about 22% of NCL Holdings. Non institutional investors own 16.5 percent (rounded). The majority of stock is held via mutual funds and financial firms. So its not closely held at all.

 

There are certainly issues with the way Apollo does business that raise concerns, but they have held a significant ownership position since 2008, so that's not a new development.

 

Genting, btw, has been rumored to be considering an investment in CCL (if CCL is willing, which is an open question), in addition, their new venture Dream Cruises is coming on line, and they purchased Crystal so those may have triggered the sale of NCL to get them to a non-associative level to avoid potential long term anti-trust concerns among other things. Not to mention they have significant amount of cash outlay for these ventures AND their shares would have been diluted by a potential new $20M offering.

 

 

(Disclosure - I AM an NCL shareholder, albeit not large scale and I do read the shareholder reports, as I do with all stocks I own individually)

 

Apollo, TPG and Star together own about 1/3 rd of the stock. The board is controlled by Apollo and TPG with the majority of the directors being either partners or employees of those companies or closely associated companies in which Apollo or TPG has or had a substantial ownership interest.

[abe3]

I feel the same and will continue cruising with NCL until I don't see the value for my $'s, but understand that some have a different idea of what their value is and I wish them well in whatever they choose to do in the future, as far as cruising is concerned.

 

 

You are right. Each person has to decide what is value to them. To me saving on a cruise and getting more is value to me while others might think room service must be complimentary is more important to them.

[NLH Arizona]

Throwing out the old regime and replacing them with Prestige "yes men" has done very little good thus far. They've not only thrown out the people, they've thrown out the rules. Completely new management systems and philosophies from Oceania that are, to be honest, backwards and have no place in mass market cruising. At the moment they are still in a constant state of flux, because they can't seem to figure out why these brilliant Oceania concepts aren't scaling well with a much larger fleet and ships.

 

It's like watching a man throw away a flashlight, simply because it isn't "his," and then blindly groping through the dark trying to find his way. It's becoming pathetic.

 

How many NCL positions did Mr. Del Rio throw out in favor Prestige "yes men" and how many NCL positions remained from the old NCL regime?

[flipper32]

As someone who really enjoys NCL and likes their ships I'd like to see the cruise line around in the future. If you keep buying ships for $1.5 billion and spending a fortune renovating older ships you have to cover the debt service some way.

[rg24601]

SO is there a consensus that FDR has done anything to help ALL cruisers?

 

clearly some are happy and some are not but is there one item?

 

This thread does not seem to have really listed one.

[abe3]

SO is there a consensus that FDR has done anything to help ALL cruisers?

 

 

 

clearly some are happy and some are not but is there one item?

 

 

 

This thread does not seem to have really listed one.

 

 

Has he done anything to hurt it? IMO he hasn't.

[sparks1093]

saving on a cruise

 

That's what I look for and unfortunately I haven't seen the deals that you and NLH Arizona (and others) have seen. Maybe I will, but given the prices that I have seen I have my doubts.

[NLH Arizona]

SO is there a consensus that FDR has done anything to help ALL cruisers?

 

clearly some are happy and some are not but is there one item?

 

This thread does not seem to have really listed one.

 

You are never going to get everyone to agree that one thing is good for everyone and trying to find something that everyone feels benefits all is like trying to roll a thousand pound boulder up a hill all by yourself...it can't be done. We are all different and have different likes, dislikes and expectations.

[luv2swimwdolphins]

You are never going to get everyone to agree that one thing is good for everyone and trying to find something that everyone feels benefits all is like trying to roll a thousand pound boulder up a hill all by yourself...it can't be done. We are all different and have different likes, dislikes and expectations.

 

 

Spot on! One man's paradise is another mans' prison. What we all have in common is that we like to cruise. Good thing they're many options to choose from!

[KeithJenner]

SO is there a consensus that FDR has done anything to help ALL cruisers?

 

 

No, but you appear to be the only person who thinks that is what we are trying to do.

Edited December 14, 2015 by KeithJenner

[sparks1093]

SO is there a consensus that FDR has done anything to help ALL cruisers?

 

clearly some are happy and some are not but is there one item?

 

This thread does not seem to have really listed one.

 

I don't think it is possible and I doubt that is the measuring stick that NCL is using.

[rg24601]

So no.

 

Lowering cruise fares across the board would help everyone, would they not?

 

A 20% off sale, no restrictions, no exclusions, all cabins.

 

Or do the supporters think some should pay more in fares?

[rg24601]

Has he done anything to hurt it? IMO he hasn't.

 

Those paying for Margaritville now might disagree.

[luvtheships]

As someone who really enjoys NCL and likes their ships I'd like to see the cruise line around in the future. If you keep buying ships for $1.5 billion and spending a fortune renovating older ships you have to cover the debt service some way.

 

 

Exactly and Ncl is doing that by enticing newbie cruisers with phony deals because they are none the wiser

 

I also think the Asian market will help tremendously. There will be an enormous amount of casino and cigarette sales revenue in that market

[rg24601]

I don't think it is possible and I doubt that is the measuring stick that NCL is using.

 

Obviously that is not the measuring stick NCL is using. Their actions clearly show that.

 

Do they have one or is this all sort of on the fly and off the cuff stuff?