Has FDR done anything to benefit cruisers?

[barnacle_boy]

Whether or not they are successful is an open question, but MSC is driven to become the largest cruise brand (opposed to holding corporation) in the world. They recently underwent a massive corporate expansion, have a huge number of orders on the books at Fincantieri and St. Nazaire, and are willing to throw many billions of dollars to become #1. The are already set to surpass NCL in number of ships by 2018. By the early 2020s, MSC will be bigger than NCL regardless of the measurement used.

 

Other than the much older second-hand (even third, forth, etc.) ships that MSC (previously Lauro) operated until the early 2000s, they're relatively new to the megaship game. Of course, NCL and other North American lines also have a huge home field advantage. Divina encountered some issues during MSC's North American debut, so there are teething problems to work out with the new demographics. However, MSC is here to stay, and they've already committed one of their more interesting newbuilds to Miami for 2017.

 

Time will tell if MSC is successful, but they have one enormous advantage. Their highly profitable cargo business can finance all sorts of amazing amenities that will always remain out of NCL's reach. For example, MSC recently announced that they've teamed up with Cirque du Soleil to create new production shows with custom-built theaters on their upcoming ships. Such productions shoreside can run anywhere between $50-300 million a piece. By comparison, the only thing NCL can afford is the cheap Cirque knock-off.

Edited December 16, 2015 by barnacle_boy

[sjbdtz]

When they start using L'Occitane then maybe it would make a difference.

 

They USED to use l'Occitane. I was SO happy when they switched. Hated that stuff. Not a fan of verbena.

 

 

.

[fshagan]

I doubt there are many, if any who are opposed to the sprucing up of older ships. If there are, I’d love to read their reasoning on why cruising on an dilapidated ship is preferred.

 

The title of this thread is about Frank Del Rio doing ANYTHING that was a benefit to all cruisers. Like most threads in the NCL forum, it devolved into nit picking about what the word "benefit" meant, that not ALL cruisers like whatever change was touted, etc. So I carefully framed my response to be least offensive, and clearly stated that having ALL cruisers see it as a benefit isn't going to happen. But I see the accelerated sprucing up schedule as a benefit to me.

[SuiteTraveler]

They USED to use l'Occitane. I was SO happy when they switched. Hated that stuff. Not a fan of verbena.

 

 

.

 

I agree, the l'Occitane is the WORST for your hair - way too drying.

[SteveH2508]

The title of this thread is about Frank Del Rio doing ANYTHING that was a benefit to all cruisers. Like most threads in the NCL forum, it devolved into nit picking about what the word "benefit" meant, that not ALL cruisers like whatever change was touted, etc. So I carefully framed my response to be least offensive, and clearly stated that having ALL cruisers see it as a benefit isn't going to happen. But I see the accelerated sprucing up schedule as a benefit to me.

 

Fair point - the thing that many posters seem to miss is not 'benefit' but 'value'. For example - is the extra fare worth the upgrade of the ship?

 

If I get what I perceive as value from my cruise expenditure I will continue to patronise that line - if I think they are ripping me off I will go elsewhere.

 

It is a very personal thing - we both like a drink, so the price of drinks/price of drinks packages/free drinks packages is a significant factor in our purchasing decision. Changing the terms of those packages between booking and sailing is not acceptable (we accept that drink prices may rise reasonably).

 

What I cannot stand (and seems to be par for the course with NCL at the moment), is the constant changes to all of these sort of factors with little or no notice.

 

These changes are almost always to the customer's detriment. Whilst this sort of sharp practice/bait and switch/immoral trading (call it what you like) is going on, we are not going to risk our cruise Pounds Sterling with such a organisation.

 

Maybe, in a few years time, when FDR has stopped fiddling with the train set, and things are running predictably, we might book another NCL cruise.

[swedish weave]

As someone who really enjoys NCL and likes their ships I'd like to see the cruise line around in the future. If you keep buying ships for $1.5 billion and spending a fortune renovating older ships you have to cover the debt service some way.

 

After seeing the comments about fares, and one in particular about Del Rio holding the fares "sacred", I allowed my curiosity to check and was shocked to see that one of the largest travel agencies is consistently advertising 60 percent or more discounts on all of the cruises listed on Oceania and Regent.

 

How can a company cover their debt service by offering such huge discounts on all of their cruises ??

[fshagan]

After seeing the comments about fares, and one in particular about Del Rio holding the fares "sacred", I allowed my curiosity to check and was shocked to see that one of the largest travel agencies is consistently advertising 60 percent or more discounts on all of the cruises listed on Oceania and Regent.

 

How can a company cover their debt service by offering such huge discounts on all of their cruises ??

 

That's their pricing model ... they have a huge list price on Oceania and Regent and always offer at least "two for one" fares. I have never seen one of their brochures having only the high brochure rate listed. You'll see a cruise listed for $10,000, with the "two for one" rate under $5,000 a person.

 

It's a different pricing model from NCL, which has adopted RCLs price+promo pricing model.

 

It doesn't matter which pricing model you use if, at the end of the quarter / year you are profitable. That remains to be seen with NCL's portion of company. I don't think Oceania and Regent have been profitable yet, but I could be wrong.

[hamrag]

.....What I cannot stand (and seems to be par for the course with NCL at the moment), is the constant changes to all of these sort of factors with little or no notice.

 

These changes are almost always to the customer's detriment. Whilst this sort of sharp practice/bait and switch/immoral trading (call it what you like) is going on, we are not going to risk our cruise Pounds Sterling with such a organisation.....

 

This thread has now run to 18 pages. As a recent poster has correctly highlighted, much nit picking has taken place around what "benefit" means. Let's change the focus now, and discuss what "detriment" means!!

[KeithJenner]

much nit picking has taken place around what "benefit" means.

 

 

I wouldn't call it nit picking.

 

One person made up their own definition, and pretty well everyone else disagreed with them.

[sparks1093]

After seeing the comments about fares, and one in particular about Del Rio holding the fares "sacred", I allowed my curiosity to check and was shocked to see that one of the largest travel agencies is consistently advertising 60 percent or more discounts on all of the cruises listed on Oceania and Regent.

 

How can a company cover their debt service by offering such huge discounts on all of their cruises ??

 

I am not sure about Regent but when I've looked at Oceania they do the same kind of thing on their own website.

[KeithJenner]

Now that a significant contributor to this thread appears to have been banned by CC, perhaps we can have a sensible discussion on this.

 

I still stand by the things which I and others have previously identified as benefits that have been added during FDR's time, such as the SDP, free Asian restaurants and expansion into Asia. Obviously, they are not seen by everybody as being a benefit, but to many of us they are.

 

I would also hesitantly suggest that the continuation of the booking perks, especially the UBP, could be taken into account, as it does seem that something which originally looked like a short term deal is now looking fairly permanent. I don't know exactly when the decisions were made, but it seems to me to be possible that this is something that the new management were responsible for. This is certainly something which is only a benefit to a certain group of passengers (I.e. Those who drink a lot), but to those who fall into that group, it is a quite significant benefit resulting in cheaper overall costs on some cruises.

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't for a second suggest that the balance of the changes is positive. The negatives far outweigh the positives for a lot (probably the majority) of people. On top of that is the way that a lot of the changes have been introduced, which in many cases almost looks like it's been done deliberately in order to annoy as many people as possible.

 

I was thinking the other day about how these changes have actually affected me when I am onboard. I have now done three cruises (33 days) onboard NCL ships since FDR room over, and I honestly can't think of anything which has really made a significant difference to me on any of those cruises. Perhaps the main difference I can think of is the free Asian, which I used a number of times on the Getaway and the Spirit, and on the Escape, as I was with a number of long time cruisers, we spent a bit of time discussing the changes, but actual difference made to the enjoyment of my holiday. Pretty well none.

 

I appreciate that I may not be typical in that the cost differences are negligible (and on some cruises are in my favour), and a lot of the things that bother people don't apply to me. For example, I rarely use the pool bar and often prefer to go to the bar rather than wait for someone to come to me, so any reduction of wait staff in the bar hasn't made much difference, to the extent that I really haven't noticed it being any harder to get a drink.

 

I do wonder how much difference these changes are making in practice, and away from this forum. On the Spirit, the people we spent time with were almost all new cruisers, and they all seemed to think that service and value for money were very good.

[NLH Arizona]

Now that a significant contributor to this thread appears to have been banned by CC, perhaps we can have a sensible discussion on this.

 

I still stand by the things which I and others have previously identified as benefits that have been added during FDR's time, such as the SDP, free Asian restaurants and expansion into Asia. Obviously, they are not seen by everybody as being a benefit, but to many of us they are.

 

I would also hesitantly suggest that the continuation of the booking perks, especially the UBP, could be taken into account, as it does seem that something which originally looked like a short term deal is now looking fairly permanent. I don't know exactly when the decisions were made, but it seems to me to be possible that this is something that the new management were responsible for. This is certainly something which is only a benefit to a certain group of passengers (I.e. Those who drink a lot), but to those who fall into that group, it is a quite significant benefit resulting in cheaper overall costs on some cruises.

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't for a second suggest that the balance of the changes is positive. The negatives far outweigh the positives for a lot (probably the majority) of people. On top of that is the way that a lot of the changes have been introduced, which in many cases almost looks like it's been done deliberately in order to annoy as many people as possible.

 

I was thinking the other day about how these changes have actually affected me when I am onboard. I have now done three cruises (33 days) onboard NCL ships since FDR room over, and I honestly can't think of anything which has really made a significant difference to me on any of those cruises. Perhaps the main difference I can think of is the free Asian, which I used a number of times on the Getaway and the Spirit, and on the Escape, as I was with a number of long time cruisers, we spent a bit of time discussing the changes, but actual difference made to the enjoyment of my holiday. Pretty well none.

 

I appreciate that I may not be typical in that the cost differences are negligible (and on some cruises are in my favour), and a lot of the things that bother people don't apply to me. For example, I rarely use the pool bar and often prefer to go to the bar rather than wait for someone to come to me, so any reduction of wait staff in the bar hasn't made much difference, to the extent that I really haven't noticed it being any harder to get a drink.

 

I do wonder how much difference these changes are making in practice, and away from this forum. On the Spirit, the people we spent time with were almost all new cruisers, and they all seemed to think that service and value for money were very good.

I just got back on Monday from my cruise on the Dawn and can say that none of the changes had any impact on my cruise in a negative way.

[LMaxwell]

I've read a lot about changes that FDR has made to increase revenues. Has he done anything positive for the customer?

 

Robert

 

No.

[sparks1093]

Now that a significant contributor to this thread appears to have been banned by CC, perhaps we can have a sensible discussion on this.

 

I still stand by the things which I and others have previously identified as benefits that have been added during FDR's time, such as the SDP, free Asian restaurants and expansion into Asia. Obviously, they are not seen by everybody as being a benefit, but to many of us they are.

 

I would also hesitantly suggest that the continuation of the booking perks, especially the UBP, could be taken into account, as it does seem that something which originally looked like a short term deal is now looking fairly permanent. I don't know exactly when the decisions were made, but it seems to me to be possible that this is something that the new management were responsible for. This is certainly something which is only a benefit to a certain group of passengers (I.e. Those who drink a lot), but to those who fall into that group, it is a quite significant benefit resulting in cheaper overall costs on some cruises.

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't for a second suggest that the balance of the changes is positive. The negatives far outweigh the positives for a lot (probably the majority) of people. On top of that is the way that a lot of the changes have been introduced, which in many cases almost looks like it's been done deliberately in order to annoy as many people as possible.

 

I was thinking the other day about how these changes have actually affected me when I am onboard. I have now done three cruises (33 days) onboard NCL ships since FDR room over, and I honestly can't think of anything which has really made a significant difference to me on any of those cruises. Perhaps the main difference I can think of is the free Asian, which I used a number of times on the Getaway and the Spirit, and on the Escape, as I was with a number of long time cruisers, we spent a bit of time discussing the changes, but actual difference made to the enjoyment of my holiday. Pretty well none.

 

I appreciate that I may not be typical in that the cost differences are negligible (and on some cruises are in my favour), and a lot of the things that bother people don't apply to me. For example, I rarely use the pool bar and often prefer to go to the bar rather than wait for someone to come to me, so any reduction of wait staff in the bar hasn't made much difference, to the extent that I really haven't noticed it being any harder to get a drink.

 

I do wonder how much difference these changes are making in practice, and away from this forum. On the Spirit, the people we spent time with were almost all new cruisers, and they all seemed to think that service and value for money were very good.

 

I doubt that any of the changes would affect me at all since they are all easily avoidable, but if given the chance between walking through a field that has cows and one without I would choose the one without since I don't have to watch where I step as closely;). I am sure that NCL is still a good product with excellent service and edible food (some great), but they've priced themsevles out of my market (again, I realize that some people are still able to get great deals and that's good for them). He has done some things that benefit cruisers but they aren't ones that would entice me to choose NCL over any other line.

[abe3]

I just got back on Monday from my cruise on the Dawn and can say that none of the changes had any impact on my cruise in a negative way.

E

 

Fantastic! I am feeling the same way for my upcoming cruise in a few weeks.

[paiagirl]

We were on the JEWEL this month and had lotion and a bar of soap. Before, we had to ask for both of those items.

 

I understand that it began a couple weeks before.

[fshagan]

We were on the JEWEL this month and had lotion and a bar of soap. Before, we had to ask for both of those items.

 

I understand that it began a couple weeks before.

 

Were you in a suite or balcony (or lower)?

 

This is a great change. I wonder why it wasn't all over this forum with endless debate. Oh wait, maybe it's a good change, and who wants to talk about those? ;)

[paiagirl]

Were you in a suite or balcony (or lower)?

 

This is a great change. I wonder why it wasn't all over this forum with endless debate. Oh wait, maybe it's a good change, and who wants to talk about those? ;)

 

We were in a balcony.

[SuiteCruiser]

Were you in a suite or balcony (or lower)?

 

This is a great change. I wonder why it wasn't all over this forum with endless debate. Oh wait, maybe it's a good change, and who wants to talk about those? ;)

 

I actually reported in on the Escape Transatlantic, and said it was great. Not quite replacing all of the bad changes and the fees, but I do give credit where credit is due.

 

They also added usb chargers in the bedside lamps on Escape which is also great.

[abe3]

He kept my cruise lower than in the past and gave me more promos. I consider that a great benefit from FDR

[SuiteCruiser]

He kept my cruise lower than in the past and gave me more promos. I consider that a great benefit from FDR

 

When did you book it, and have you looked at the prices for the next one? I'd be interested if it is also still low. I've booked 3 cruises in the past week and one was around the same price, but it's after final payment date and the others were higher than previous years.

[abe3]

Booked last March. Looked for next year and prices are fairly consistent what I would pay. I don't cruise during peak times so that tends to help me find better deals

[SuiteCruiser]

Booked last March. Looked for next year and prices are fairly consistent what I would pay. I don't cruise during peak times so that tends to help me find better deals

 

I do some of my cruises in peak times, because I have kids still in school, but I keep hearing on here that people are paying the same prices as last year, but when I compare all 7 of my cruises from last year to the same (as close as I can get) all are higher except one that stayed the same and that is the one I booked after final payment date.

 

I think most of the comments of low prices come from people who booked early last year before the prices all went up. If you can secure your Haven cabin for the same price as last year, by booking now, you've done very well.

[abe3]

I will find out soon when I book for next year. Prices look fairly close to what I have paid. I don't expect to pay much more but hopefully less if I can find the deal for a haven like in my previous cruises. I take my child out of school for our vacation.

[KeithJenner]

I think most of the comments of low prices come from people who booked early last year before the prices all went up. If you can secure your Haven cabin for the same price as last year, by booking now, you've done very well.

 

 

My bookings have been throughout the year, the latest being this Autumn.

 

One difference between us is that I'm not booking in the Haven. It used to be that I looked at Haven pricing sometimes as there was occasionally not much difference between mini suite and suite pricing. That is certainly not the case now as the Haven prices seem to be a lot higher.

 

By the way, I'm not saying that my prices are lower (although my last booking was 10 nights on the Spirit for less than we have ever paid for even a 7 night cruise). Generally they are a bit higher, but the promos make them better value.

Edited December 20, 2015 by KeithJenner