Specialty Dining Tipping

[cruisebie]

Could you show proof that their pay has been cut? How do you know that this wasn't taken into consideration at the time of the change? Also, could you show how much money NCL has skimmed from these funds to their own coffers? It is really easy to accuse a company of wrong doing, but I'd bet that it is much harder to prove what you are saying, but I have faith since you stated this in no uncertain terms, you have all the proper documentation to back up your accusations.

 

 

Let me clarify, I am certainly not accusing NCL of any wrongdoing. I think you may have read something into my post that I did not intend. I believe that a re-reading of my post will show that I said their actions were legal and that workers were receiving the pay stated by their contracts. I did say that NCL's actions were not ethical or fair to their workers and I stand by that opinion.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to come to that conclusion based on the following:

 

1. NCL implemented a new 18% gratuity and service charge on specialty restaurants. This is a new revenue stream and all of it goes straight to NCL's coffers.

 

2. The email from an HD posted earlier in this thread confirms that the funds collected in specialty restaurants are pooled and distributed to all servers no matter where they work.

 

3. Diners in specialty restaurants would be less likely to leave an additional tip on top of the 18% gratuity & service charge. Most diners would probably think that the 18% goes to those who have served them as it would in a land based restaurant.

 

4. It could be possible that NCL increased the specialty workers share of the gratuity pool, although that would not be likely. Compensation is usually spelled out by contract. There are also several reports from workers who have said the DSC increases did not result in additional funds for them.

 

5. It seems likely that the effect of the 18% gratuity & service charge is a reduction in the overall compensation of the servers, since they are now less likely to receive a direct gratuity.

 

It certainly does not seem ethical to implement a charge, named in part a gratuity, that affects the direct gratuities received by the servers. Nor does it seem like fair treatment. NCL must have known how it would be perceived or else they would have just called it a service charge.

 

I hope that clears up any confusion my earlier post may have caused.

[NLH Arizona]

1. NCL implemented a new 18% gratuity and service charge on specialty restaurants. This is a new revenue stream and all of it goes straight to NCL's coffers.

 

2. The email from an HD posted earlier in this thread confirms that the funds collected in specialty restaurants are pooled and distributed to all servers no matter where they work.

 

 

 

First you say it is a revenue stream going into NCL's coffers in point #1 and then in point #2, you say the Hotel Director says it goes to servers. I'm totally confused. How can it be a revenue stream if it goes to the employees? If it goes to the employees, then it is going where it should be going, not to NCL's coffers, with the exception that it really should just go to those servers in the specialty restaurants. Are you saying that the Hotel Director's information is bogus?

Edited December 27, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[LMaxwell]

Since you can't adjust of modify the 18% in specialty dining it is not a gratuity. NCL call it a service charge. they can keep it all and still be "in the right".

[cruisebie]

First you say it is a revenue stream going into NCL's coffers in point #1 and then in point #2, you say the Hotel Director says it goes to servers. I'm totally confused. How can it be a revenue stream if it goes to the employees? If it goes to the employees, then it is going where it should be going, not to NCL's coffers, with the exception that it really should just go to those servers in the specialty restaurants. Are you saying that the Hotel Director's information is bogus?

 

 

I guess by using the word "coffers" I used some extra verbiage that I didn't need to make my point. My point is just that NCL is collecting additional funds from the 18% charge, which is having the end result of reducing the direct tips that specialty restaurant servers receive. As swedish weave said NCL charges the 18% to the guests accounts. And the funds the guests pay go NCL's bank accounts (or coffers). It appears from the information in the HD's email NCL then uses these funds as a gratuity pool and divides it among all servers, not just those in the specialty restaurants.

 

As an example, if a meal in Cagney's cost $29.95, the 18% gratuity and service charge would be $5.39. With a simple division among all servers, If there are 300 servers aboard, the Cagney's employee who served the meal would receive $.018 of the $5.39 charge. (Btw, I used 300 for example purposes only-I have no idea how many are actually employed.) In truth, the division is probably not that simple, and we don't know exactly what provisions are in place for distribution. However, it is clear that direct tips are less likely and the amount to be received from the pooled funds is much less than a directly received tip.

 

So you can see I was not disputing the HD's information. Who would know better than he would? In fact, his email calls into question another piece of information that NCL put forth. Didn't NCL say that specialty restaurant workers had been removed from the DSC when the 18% charge was implemented?

[hpecorari]

 

I interpreted 'regardless of where they work' to mean where they work on that ship i.e. the 'behind the scenes' staff - YMMV.

 

 

I read 'regardless of where they work' to mean MDR, Specialty Restaurant, other dining venues, etc.

 

Harriet

[NLH Arizona]

I guess by using the word "coffers" I used some extra verbiage that I didn't need to make my point. My point is just that NCL is collecting additional funds from the 18% charge, which is having the end result of reducing the direct tips that specialty restaurant servers receive. As swedish weave said NCL charges the 18% to the guests accounts. And the funds the guests pay go NCL's bank accounts (or coffers). It appears from the information in the HD's email NCL then uses these funds as a gratuity pool and divides it among all servers, not just those in the specialty restaurants.

 

As an example, if a meal in Cagney's cost $29.95, the 18% gratuity and service charge would be $5.39. With a simple division among all servers, If there are 300 servers aboard, the Cagney's employee who served the meal would receive $.018 of the $5.39 charge. (Btw, I used 300 for example purposes only-I have no idea how many are actually employed.) In truth, the division is probably not that simple, and we don't know exactly what provisions are in place for distribution. However, it is clear that direct tips are less likely and the amount to be received from the pooled funds is much less than a directly received tip.

 

So you can see I was not disputing the HD's information. Who would know better than he would? In fact, his email calls into question another piece of information that NCL put forth. Didn't NCL say that specialty restaurant workers had been removed from the DSC when the 18% charge was implemented?

You are correct, they are collecting the money and then according to the Hotel Director placing it in the tip pool and paying it out to employees and not keeping it as many have said (money grab, revenue, to their bottom line, etc.). Sorry, but I don't see swedish weaves posts, so not sure what you are referring to there. I agree also, that it goes into their bank accounts, but since it is turned around and paid to the employees, I don't see that as an issue. If they were making huge amounts of interest and not passing that along to the employees then that would be an issue, but in today's economy, that isn't happening. I think it is wrong that it goes to others than the specialty restaurant servers.

 

Since we really don't know how the tips are distributed, it would be hard to figure out what the specialty restaurants servers would get, but hopefully more than a few cents, but not the entire $5, because there are staff other than the servers who assist in making the experience an excellent one in the restaurants.

 

I agree, I totally believe the Hotel Director and yes, NCL did tell me that the specialty restaurant servers don't get the DSC, plus they changed their website to say that it includes complimentary restaurant staff, which leads one to also believe that the for fee restaurant staff is not included. I have a big issue with that and tried to call the person who told me at NCL and was told they were on vacation, so I wrote them an email and copied Mr. Stuart voicing how upset I was about the whole situation and especially that the employee made up this whole story about how they were restructuring things and the servers would be getting other duties outside of the complimentary restaurants and that the servers and other staff in the specialty restaurants are not getting the entire 18%.

[cruisebie]

Since you can't adjust of modify the 18% in specialty dining it is not a gratuity. NCL call it a service charge. they can keep it all and still be "in the right".

 

 

Lol, I noticed in the SDP FAQ, they are now calling this the gratuity and specialty service charge. I wonder if they call the 18% charge for the special entrees in the MDR, the gratuity and MDR service charge? So many charges applied in so many places now.

 

I agree with you that since it can't be adjusted that it serves more as a service charge than a gratuity. Since both are referenced in the name, it would be interesting to know how much of the 18% goes to the gratuity pool and how much is considered a service charge.

[mollydogsmom]

Wouldn't it be nice if NCL and other lines would just pay their employees and not try to make us feel like it is our obligation. It is okay for them to pay their employees next to nothing but if we don't tip them we're the bad guys! I'm sure they hold back some of the money as a processing fee because they don't do anything for free.

[bobstheboy]

There are a small number on here that are obsessed with this subject.

 

Get a life lol !

[Dorene1]

Good Morning

 

Thank you for all your comments and i am just as confused as before I started this thread. Since I have purchase the 7 day specialty dinners on my cruise I am leaving for in 2 hours I will base it on the following.

 

1 Good Service by all

2 Food was in served hot, cold or warm? was it good

 

I am normally a good tipper and I will just add a tip if the above is met. If not I will not add simple as that.

 

I do hope NCL makes it clearer to their customers on how this works on the 18%, tips etc.

 

I am going on a cruise, excited to be on the Breakaway.

 

Have a wonderful day and thank you for all the info!!!

 

Warm Regards

 

Dorene

Edited December 27, 2015 by Dorene1

[cruzsnooze]

It really doesn't matter who gets what. If you pay your 18% you've met your obligation. If you leave your daily auto tips intact you've tipped double. How NCL pays their employees is not my business. If their employee doesn't like their compensation then quit.

[sjbdtz]

I think it is wrong that it goes to others than the specialty restaurant servers.

 

Since we really don't know how the tips are distributed, it would be hard to figure out what the specialty restaurants servers would get, but hopefully more than a few cents, but not the entire $5, because there are staff other than the servers who assist in making the experience an excellent one in the restaurants.

 

 

This is the point most people miss. It takes more than a server to ensure your meal arrives hot & correctly made.

 

If the tablecloths aren't clean, then the tables can't be set.

If the dishes aren't washed, then the tables can't be set.

If the dirty dishes aren't cleared, then the tables can't be set.

 

Shouldn't the laundry, dishwashing and bussing teams be recognized for their contributions?

 

Plus there are junior waiters, and a sommelier, and a Maitre d' to make sure all the cogs are well-oiled, and a hostess....etc.

 

 

All of these people contribute to the operation of the Specialty Dining, and IMHO should benefit from some portion of the pool.

 

 

.

[LMaxwell]

This is the point most people miss. It takes more than a server to ensure your meal arrives hot & correctly made.

 

If the tablecloths aren't clean, then the tables can't be set.

If the dishes aren't washed, then the tables can't be set.

If the dirty dishes aren't cleared, then the tables can't be set.

 

Shouldn't the laundry, dishwashing and bussing teams be recognized for their contributions?

 

Plus there are junior waiters, and a sommelier, and a Maitre d' to make sure all the cogs are well-oiled, and a hostess....etc.

 

 

All of these people contribute to the operation of the Specialty Dining, and IMHO should benefit from some portion of the pool.

 

 

.

 

NCL implemented an 18% specialty dining gratuity service charge AND said the servers in those restaurants were no longer in the DSC pool.

[SeaShark]

NCL implemented an 18% specialty dining gratuity service charge AND said the servers in those restaurants were no longer in the DSC pool.

 

That isn't quite true. NCL said: "Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." with including being the operative word.

 

All that they did was to point out some staff members that are included...they did NOT say that this was a complete list of included staff, NOR did they specifically say that the Specialty Restaurant staff was excluded.

 

The idea that they don't benefit from the DSC is nothing more than internet forum urban legend which has been demonstrated to be a false assumption.

[SteveH2508]

That isn't quite true. NCL said: "Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports." with including being the operative word.

 

All that they did was to point out some staff members that are included...they did NOT say that this was a complete list of included staff, NOR did they specifically say that the Specialty Restaurant staff was excluded.

 

The idea that they don't benefit from the DSC is nothing more than internet forum urban legend which has been demonstrated to be a false assumption.

 

That may well be - BUT - why did NCL go to the trouble of changing their website to include the word complimentary when these changes were made? Their track record for keeping the website up-to-date is not good. Their track record for clarifying things is even worse.

 

I cannot help feeling that the electrons being disturbed by the semantic arguments about this issue, is about as much use as trying to nail jelly to the ceiling with a rubber hammer. It is as entertaining though:D.

Edited December 27, 2015 by SteveH2508

[SeaShark]

That may well be - BUT - why did NCL go to the trouble of changing their website to include the word complimentary when these changes were made? Their track record for keeping the website up-to-date is not good. Their track record for clarifying things is even worse.

 

I cannot help feeling that the electrons being disturbed by the semantic arguments about this issue, is about as much use as trying to nail jelly to the ceiling with a rubber hammer. It is as entertaining though:D.

It may come as a surprise, but NCL doesn't make a habit of explaining "why" to the general public. I'm confident that those with a need to know why already do.

 

As for their website, a smart customer reads and understands what it says...but also understands what it does NOT say. What NCL has posted is the truth...however, they have no control over what people assume.

 

 

Or do they?

[cruisebie]

This is the point most people miss. It takes more than a server to ensure your meal arrives hot & correctly made.

 

 

 

If the tablecloths aren't clean, then the tables can't be set.

 

If the dishes aren't washed, then the tables can't be set.

 

If the dirty dishes aren't cleared, then the tables can't be set.

 

 

 

Shouldn't the laundry, dishwashing and bussing teams be recognized for their contributions?

 

 

 

Plus there are junior waiters, and a sommelier, and a Maitre d' to make sure all the cogs are well-oiled, and a hostess....etc.

 

 

 

 

 

All of these people contribute to the operation of the Specialty Dining, and IMHO should benefit from some portion of the pool.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I agree with you that all of these positions are deserving of compensation and contribute to a very nice experience in the specialties. However, why should it come at the expense of the servers receiving direct tips from diners? I wouldn't be a very happy employee at my place of business or feel valued if my employer gave other employees a raise by affecting my compensation.

 

Also, we don't have any information that says they were not already included in the pool prior to the start of the 18% gratuity and specialty dining charge.

[sjbdtz]

I agree with you that all of these positions are deserving of compensation and contribute to a very nice experience in the specialties. However, why should it come at the expense of the servers receiving direct tips from diners? I wouldn't be a very happy employee at my place of business or feel valued if my employer gave other employees a raise by affecting my compensation.

 

Also, we don't have any information that says they were not already included in the pool prior to the start of the 18% gratuity and specialty dining charge.

 

 

Umm....every server knows they have to tip-out the other staff, or their section will get stiffed....and they'll get no tips in the first place.

 

Also, every raise every employee at your place of employment gets, comes at the expense of your personal income.

 

You might be making a much higher wage, if the employer's pool of funds for wages wasn't otherwise partitioned.

 

 

 

.

[cruisebie]

Umm....every server knows they have to tip-out the other staff, or their section will get stiffed....and they'll get no tips in the first place.

 

Also, every raise every employee at your place of employment gets, comes at the expense of your personal income.

 

You might be making a much higher wage, if the employer's pool of funds for wages wasn't otherwise partitioned.

 

 

 

.

 

While that may be true, the difference in the case of NCL, is the institution of an 18% fee that decreases the direct gratuities that servers receive. NCL has managed to redirect much of the direct gratuities into its "pool of funds for wages" at the expense of the employee. It seems unethical for NCL to increase its available funds for wages in this way and unfair to the employees affected by this. There are other methods that they could have used to increase revenue.

 

Since you mentioned tipping out other staff, do we know that they are not getting stiffed by the new policy, too? Instead of the servers tipping them out from their gratuities, they are now subject to whatever the tip pool distributes. I would tend to think the direct method might yield more for them.

[swedish weave]

Most of the posts on this thread don't mention the fact that NCL has taken control of the gratuities and/or service charges. The server can't be expected to tip out other departments or people, because they have no way of knowing how much of the money the company will decide to allot to them or when it will be distributed.

 

I personally think 18% plus the DSC is adequate gratuities, and would find it difficult to justify tipping additional for two reasons. I would not know how much the server would get to keep if I tip in cash, and I would not be able to determine how much if any of the pool money would go to the server who served me. That is due to the "fleetwide distribution" and the allocation of the funds to crew members "at the discretion of management"

Edited December 28, 2015 by swedish weave

[CasinoCruzGirl]

Could you show proof that their pay has been cut? How do you know that this wasn't taken into consideration at the time of the change? Also, could you show how much money NCL has skimmed from these funds to their own coffers? It is really easy to accuse a company of wrong doing, but I'd bet that it is much harder to prove what you are saying, but I have faith since you stated this in no uncertain terms, you have all the proper documentation to back up your accusations.

 

Can I ask you a serious question? Please don't take this the wrong way. Why do you always come to NCLs defense? Is it to get to people who say negative things about NCL? Not to me personally because I very rarely if ever post negative comments about ncl, so far it has not been a problem for me but do I like all the changes they have made? Nope. Since they dont affect me as you state they don't affect you I don't get on all threads and come to NCLs defense as you do. I'm not saying your wrong or arguing with you I seriously just was wondering why you defend ncl so whole heartedly. I cruise ncl and have several booked but will not applaud the changes they have made over the last year as it seems you and another poster in this forum do.

 

Geri

[sjbdtz]

Can I ask you a serious question? Please don't take this the wrong way. Why do you always come to NCLs defense? Is it to get to people who say negative things about NCL? Not to me personally because I very rarely if ever post negative comments about ncl, so far it has not been a problem for me but do I like all the changes they have made? Nope. Since they dont affect me as you state they don't affect you I don't get on all threads and come to NCLs defense as you do. I'm not saying your wrong or arguing with you I seriously just was wondering why you defend ncl so whole heartedly. I cruise ncl and have several booked but will not applaud the changes they have made over the last year as it seems you and another poster in this forum do.

 

Geri

 

 

 

Since I haven't really had any complaints about any of the changes they've made, I'll guess that I might be the other poster you reference.

 

I've explained my position frequently. Firstly, the attacks are unreasonable. I've sat in on decisions which are 100% focused on a customer satisfaction result (improving our efficiency, or changing the way we go-to-market).... but if we detailed the change on this board, 10 people would immediately say that it was "obvious" that we were doing this for more money / to reduce cost.

 

So as long as people are taking wanton leaps into the deep-end of their imaginations, I will propose an alternative viewpoint.

 

 

 

Secondly, the product NCL delivers doesn't exist anywhere else, according to anything I've read, or anybody I've spoken with. Their ability to provide service while not seeming obsequious appeals to me greatly. Combined with their LGBT-friendly approach (FoD in the Freestyle), the dress-code & dining flexibility, and the ship-within-a-ship design.....they have everything I want. And I really DO prefer a la carte pricing, because if things are NOT a la carte, then I'm paying a higher price to subsidize others' inclusions.

 

So when people group-hate on a decision, and make facile "I'm taking my ball & going home" pronouncements, those are seen by anybody who finds CC, or who Googles the right keywords.

 

But decisions aren't permanent (as we saw by the reversal of the no food decision, among others), and the outcome is potential negative impact on a company, its employees, its service, and my ability to enjoy future vacations of the type I prefer.

 

So when people are being melodramatic, and the histrionics are in full swing.... I will defend my little NCL, whatever the cost may be. :)

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

Edited December 28, 2015 by sjbdtz

[CasinoCruzGirl]

Since I haven't really had any complaints about any of the changes they've made, I'll guess that I might be the other poster you reference.

 

I've explained my position frequently. Firstly, the attacks are unreasonable. I've sat in on decisions which are 100% focused on a customer satisfaction result (improving our efficiency, or changing the way we go-to-market).... but if we detailed the change on this board, 10 people would immediately say that it was "obvious" that we were doing this for more money / to reduce cost.

 

So as long as people are taking wanton leaps into the deep-end of their imaginations, I will propose an alternative viewpoint.

 

 

 

Secondly, the product NCL delivers doesn't exist anywhere else, according to anything I've read, or anybody I've spoken with. Their ability to provide service while not seeming obsequious appeals to me greatly. Combined with their LGBT-friendly approach (FoD in the Freestyle), the dress-code & dining flexibility, and the ship-within-a-ship design.....they have everything I want. And I really DO prefer a la carte pricing, because if things are NOT a la carte, then I'm paying a higher price to subsidize others' inclusions.

 

So when people group-hate on a decision, and make facile "I'm taking my ball & going home" pronouncements, those are seen by anybody who finds CC, or who Googles the right keywords.

 

But decisions aren't permanent (as we saw by the reversal of the no food decision, among others), and the outcome is potential negative impact on a company, its employees, its service, and my ability to enjoy future vacations of the type I prefer.

 

So when people are being melodramatic, and the histrionics are in full swing.... I will defend my little NCL, whatever the cost may be. :)

 

 

Stephen

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

Stephen

 

You were absolutely not the other poster I was referencing. No way at all.

[nanwel]

Tipping is a pain - prefer to have an all inclusive price so there are no huge surprises at the end of the cruise. Remember those little envelopes - wonder how many staff got stiffed on those - open them after we are off the ship to find $5 or less instead of recommended 40 - 50. I would prefer to pay when you book - cost is 1000 plus tax plus tip - all included now pay 1300 etc (no, my cruise did not cost 1000 - just a sample). Then if you have bad service, complain, but otherwise do ship crew get even $. I agree, the ship would not run without all of the staff, not just the food department.

Or just pay your staff the right amount up front and do away with all of this - I owned a factory/warehouse - my staff never got a "tip" but they had to do work for customers all the time with a regular per hour pay.

All inclusive resorts are everywhere - do not tell me it cannot work.

[MBMGWM]

>>>Secondly, the product NCL delivers doesn't exist anywhere else, according to anything I've read, or anybody I've spoken with. Their ability to provide service while not seeming obsequious appeals to me greatly. Combined with their LGBT-friendly approach (FoD in the Freestyle), the dress-code & dining flexibility, and the ship-within-a-ship design.....they have everything I want. And I really DO prefer a la carte pricing, because if things are NOT a la carte, then I'm paying a higher price to subsidize others' inclusions.<<<

 

I've been critical about some of the changes NCL has made (most recently the Margaritaville change), and it seems to me that the tipping/gratuities/daily service charges/whatever are now tending towards the excessive, but on the whole my wife & I still view NCL as our go-to cruise line for what we look for in a cruise - - informality, casual dress, many dining & entertainment options onboard, reasonable cost overall, etc. We've cruised other lines (Carnival, Royal Carib'n, Oceania, Regent, Holland America) and we've enjoyed them all, but we've cruised NCL the most. Whenever I start getting riled at the negative changes NCL has made, I (eventually) stand back and realize the positive changes they've made as well (for example, including the ultimate beverage and dining packages in the cruise fare; multiple high-quality theater shows instead of just one; even the occasional upsell deal that blows me away), and I remember why, overall, I still like NCL.

 

Not that they won't eventually drive me away if they continue making further changes that irritate me, and it doesn't mean that I won't make the occasional negative post here in the future, but for now, on balance, NCL still gets most of our cruise dollars. I'll see if anything changes my mind after our cruises coming up next month!

 

Garry