Holland america medical care

[boone2]

And your point is?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see any problem with this at all..

 

 

 

BTW according to the HAL WEB site their Dr's are certified in the U.S. or Canada, but tI've never seen a provision that they must be from the U.S. or Canada..

 

 

 

There are many Dr's working in our local Hospital's who are from a Foreign Country, but IMO are highly competent..

 

 

No problem at all. Just pointing out what was happening. I think you will find that the doctors certification requirements are changing too I.e. They will not be required to be only from the U.S. Or Canada.

[knittinggirl]

I had to visit the Serenade of the Seas infirmary for cough syrup in November, and the person at the desk didn't know what pseudafed was. Had to get someone to translate it into his language.

[boone2]

I had to visit the Serenade of the Seas infirmary for cough syrup in November, and the person at the desk didn't know what pseudafed was. Had to get someone to translate it into his language.

 

 

Well I'm Canadian and I didnt know a lot of the uUSmeds. Also had to learn a whole new vocabulary and medical terminology when I immigrated from the Uk[emoji12][emoji122]

[serendipity1499]

I had to visit the Serenade of the Seas infirmary for cough syrup in November, and the person at the desk didn't know what pseudafed was. Had to get someone to translate it into his language.

 

That's not a problem..You will find that all over the world.. Many Meds which are over the counter in the U.S. are unknown throughout the rest of the world & vice versa..

 

There are also lots of Meds which are by prescription only in the U.S., but can be purchased over the counter in other countries..

[sail7seas]

After deciding to retire from his medical practice, my husband did "Locum Tenens" work for almost 10 years. It was a gratifying way of seeing the country as well as helping out in understaffed areas. He worked with companies that placed all kinds of physicians all over for anywhere from 1 day to 1 year. (He usually worked 2-3 month stints and we traveled in a motorhome.)

 

Once he queried about working on board cruise ships and was told they only hired Emergency Medicine doctors...and right they should. That is the kind of medical problems one sees on a ship...very similar to what one would encounter in the ER of your local hospital. We were actually pleased to hear that, since, no matter what country is staffing a ship, if they are "Emergency Medicine" qualified, it's better than having a gastroenterologist (my husband's specialty) treat you!

 

Needing doctors for 6 months isn't going to bother any Locum Tenens ER physicians out there who are interested in travel. In fact, it's probably better for them to get to know the ship, staff, procedures, etc. over a longer period of time.

Many physicians now in the US and Canada are from assorted countries and are excellent doctors we are lucky to have. I have no problems seeing any doctor on board (and have almost every long cruise!) However, we DO carry a better medical evacuation (to any hospital we choose) plan than most insurances offer (which will only take you to the "nearest hospital where you can get adequate treatment"...adequate treatment being the operative word.

 

What wonderful experience those ten years must have been for you. It isn't for everyone but those that can enjoy it, you must have met many and seen much. :)

 

Are you referring to MedJetAssist policy for evacuation?

 

[wander]

About 10 years ago on a Princess ship I became friendly with a women whose husband worked one month a year as the onboard physician. In that case there was an interesting set-up. He was an Emergency/Trauma physician in a fairly major US city. He was part of a group practice that covered all of (or at least most of) the hospitals in the city through a contact. For the physicians in the group practice, their individual contracts included working on a cruise ship for one (or maybe two) months a year. There were enough physicians in the practice group that they could allow for this as well as covering the city hospitals. Thus, the Princess contract was for one full year of coverage on one of their ships by the Group Practice, although the individuals varied. I thought that sounded like a wonderful arrangement.

[janmcn]

Yes, Sail...Medjet Assist...wouldn't sail without it to places we've gone. Peace of mind.

 

Yes, we had awesome years of travel, and yes, a lot of ER docs do various arrangements of group coverage...lots of Locum Tenens docs for it since it's easy to move around from one hospital to another...no private practice patients to deal with, so you are much more able to travel to work. One opportunity came for a position in New Zealand for us, but it came two weeks after my husband had accepted a different position...too bad...that was for 6 months...would have been neat!

 

Yes, I've seen the crew doc and passenger doc on occasions...minor...but did break my ankle in Europe and was treated by an ER doc from CO...get the picture? Couldn't have been a better one to see me! The fracture couldn't be diagnosed then with the equipment they had, but he gave the right care for then.

 

Only thing we bring "just in case" is heavy duty cough syrup since on long voyages, the cruise crud happens and they usually run out of that first! (And Dextromethorphan is by prescription only in some countries...and that's the key ingredient in many of our cough syrups.)

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Janmcn.

 

I agree MedJetAssist is a good policy to have. I always take advantage of the AARP discount. :)

[sammiedawg]

This is a most complex topic.

Foreign medical graduates are often the only providers in rural areas. The quality and quantity of their medical training varies widely and may be inferior to the standard American medical education. Many will not be "board certified " or "board eligible" based on their training credentials.

I've had limited contact with cruise ship physicians but on each occasion the physician was most likely from the Phillipines.

 

Generally people should be more concerned about the quality of care they receive at home. Almost everyone thinks their physician and their local hospital are "good" when in reality some are delivering inferior care or are poorly trained. Patients should research Educational background, board certification, malpractice history, managed care and hospital affiliations, disciplinary actions by licensing board. The best and brightest generally are affiliated with the best hospitals and they went to top tier medical schools.

There is a lot of morbidity and mortality data collected by various think tanks and third party payers, generally referred to as outcome data. Quality of care varies widely. Quality is usually better at urban, large medical centers affiliated with a university or university training programs. Centers of excellence have been identified all over the US, facilities that have been identified as having special expertise and better outcomes treating certain medical conditions.

 

You won't have any evaluatory data for cruise ship physicians.

Cruise ships do not sail under US flags. They would not be required by any law to employ physicians licensed in the US. Hopefully they have emergency expertise and are well trained to operate any on board medical equipment. Passengers will not be privy to any credentialing process used to hire them. Anyone with chronic medical problems or any medical fragility should probably avoid transoceanic cruises or cruises to the third world. There is no med evac service available in the middle of the ocean. I'm healthy and I would be nervous about being more than a day or two from a land based hospital.

 

The one physician type I would completely avoid is an American who receives medical training overseas. No one chooses to go overseas just for the heck of it, they go because they were not good enough to get into a US medical school. They can come back to the US and pass a licensing exam but I would still avoid them.

[colonialinnkeeper]

Sammiedawg,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful response to the medical question. Our local hospital just went through the process of Centers of Excellence and so am familiar with the process. Your points about quality of physicians and documentation is right on. As my DH and I get older, it is something that we have been thinking more about. It would be good to have more information from the cruise companies regarding the medical staff qualifications and standards used in the hiring process.

[dakrewser]

The one physician type I would completely avoid is an American who receives medical training overseas. No one chooses to go overseas just for the heck of it, they go because they were not good enough to get into a US medical school. They can come back to the US and pass a licensing exam but I would still avoid them.

 

There are many reasons to train overseas, and qualifications is not at the top of the list - cost and lifestyle are far more important in the choice.

[Roz]

Our premier contagious disease physician here trained at the Louis Pasteur Institute in Paris. It was a deliberate choice on his part. A top notch school.

 

Roz

[sail7seas]

Sammiedawg,

 

Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful response to the medical question. Our local hospital just went through the process of Centers of Excellence and so am familiar with the process. Your points about quality of physicians and documentation is right on. As my DH and I get older, it is something that we have been thinking more about. It would be good to have more information from the cruise companies regarding the medical staff qualifications and standards used in the hiring process.

 

We here in Massachusetts are so spoiled having close access to so many world class medical center and physicians. Massachusetts General Hospital and Brigham & Womens are only two of the many fine medical centers to which we have access. So much talent centered here. Hard to beat Harvard Medical School, Tufts Medical School and the like. NOT to say there are not other very fine medical centers all around the world and I am sure there are many fine Trauma docs working on HAL ships and will continue to be.

 

[kazu]

There are many reasons to train overseas, and qualifications is not at the top of the list - cost and lifestyle are far more important in the choice.

 

as well as cultural experience, language and scholarships ;)

 

Our premier contagious disease physician here trained at the Louis Pasteur Institute in Paris. It was a deliberate choice on his part. A top notch school.

 

Roz

 

Exactly.

 

One shouldn't assume that all the best schools are necessarily in the U.S. and Canada.

[iancal]

I cannot imagine why anyone would think that the best trained doctors, the best medical care etc. is from Canada or the USA. I have never really understood what people mean by the best when they refer to doctors, hotels, whatever. Does it not depend on requirements and preferences? DW recently had wonderful care in a Kuala Lumpur hospital.

 

My son had medical care on a ship. US doctor, US trained. Seemed fine at the time. Got home and he complained. Our friend, who was also our GP and DW's employer, took a look at the arm/cast. Bottom line... cast had to come off, arm reset, new cast.

 

The comment from the GP was, to my spouse the RN, was that if he had not done this the arm would not have healed properly and would have caused a permanent problem for him.

 

Cannot get much simpler than setting and casting an arm. Perhaps this physician should have trained overseas. Everything is not what it seems.

Edited January 14, 2016 by iancal

[Lizzie68]

Where I live we have the leading heart surgical unit in the world where many innovative procedures have been developed, tried tested and true, including valve replacement without surgery. I don't know much about anything else, but trust me I know what I'm talking about here having been immersed in it for 42 years.;) Many of these brilliant specialists and surgeons originated and trained in countries other than the US and Canada.

 

In my own small town just outside of metro Vancouver, I am part of a group that has been recruiting family doctors from other countries (including the US;)) because we had a dire lack of them through retirement. They have to write exams to become licensed to work here, but we have found that there are some young, bright minds now in our community, and all have been absolutely brilliant. Those countries include India, S. Africa, Australia, the US, Phillipines, Iran Pakistan and China. All have come for a different lifestyle, and have fitted so well into our community. So, don't rush to judgement about where a medic is from. Nor should we go on believing that only N. American is best, or that older is best (these young whipper-snappers are more up to date, anyway:D).

Edited January 14, 2016 by Lizzie68

[sail7seas]

Lizzie,

Which heart center is it to which you refer?

Mass General has been doing the TAVR, as well.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by sail7seas

[sammiedawg]

Our premier contagious disease physician here trained at the Louis Pasteur Institute in Paris. It was a deliberate choice on his part. A top notch school.

 

Roz

 

Where did this physician go to medical school? Someone training overseas post medical school is not what I am referring to. In the US where you go to med school is the ticket for success and FMG's are second class for job opportunities and reimbursement.

Americans who go overseas to med school almost always have lower MCAT scores and GPA. They may turn into swell doctors but if they come back to the US they might not be board eligible for certifications. Board certification is required to join managed care plans and To get good jobs. .

Case in point an old friend from NYC, couldn't get into US medical schools after several years of applying. He went to medical school in Scotland, which doesn't sound bad. Post medical school he applied to a lower tiered hospital in the US for a residency in internal medicine. FMG's are not part of the famous residency matching process that ranks fourth year med students and slots them into programs. He finished his three year residency and partnered up with another doc to open a practice. Things were OK for a while but he was not board eligible and did not meet credentialing standards to join managed care plans. Big problems arose when he lost managed care patients and couldn't get reimbursed for his services. Within a few years he was asked to leave the group medical practice, he wasn't bringing in the revenue. He tried a solo practice, the same reimbursement problems occurred. He spent a number of years managing medical care in nursing homes and was on salary at a local prison, taking care of the inmates. He tried to get into corporate medicine but was not hired due to lack of certification.

 

I believe some posters are Canadian, a totally different government run single payer system. I know nothing about how FMG's fit in.

 

By the way I am a medical professional and have worked in the world of credentialing.

[sail7seas]

Didn't U.S. Armed Forces have to rescue many American Medical students studying in Grenada some 20 or so years ago?

 

Guadalajara, Mexico also has a Medical School some U.S. students attend.

[LMaxwell]

Seems on Cruise Critic that when you don't like the news, the first course of action is to attempt to discredit the messenger. :confused: We all read the same post to start the thread; so where are people coming up with wild accusations from? take it as informative, not actionable.

[dakrewser]

Seems on Cruise Critic that when you don't like the news, the first course of action is to attempt to discredit the messenger. :confused: We all read the same post to start the thread; so where are people coming up with wild accusations from? take it as informative, not actionable.

 

Nothing's been said about not liking the "news", not that there is any in the posting. What most don't like is someone joining CC, making one ranting posting, then disappearing. And there was little if any "information" in that post.

[LMaxwell]

Nothing's been said about not liking the "news", not that there is any in the posting. What most don't like is someone joining CC, making one ranting posting, then disappearing. And there was little if any "information" in that post.

 

There was no rant. The OP was strictly informational. then 4 pages of bashing the OP because of post count and wild accusations. God Forbid anyone accept the information as truthful? Show me the rant.

[iancal]

No matter.

 

I think getting medical treatment on a cruise ship, any line, is a bit of a crap shoot. Purely dependent on the physician, notwithstanding his/her education, skills, references. And level of competence and caring. And it can be a bit of a crap shoot in other instances as well. At the end of the day physicians are people like anyone else. They have their strengths and their weaknesses.

 

Bottom line, I hope that I never have to find out from personal experience if the one on a ship that I am on is skilled, is competent, is caring, is knowledgeable. Don't wish that on anyone. I am certain that HAL's team is fine, just as fine as those on any other cruise line or cruise ship.

Edited January 15, 2016 by iancal

[LMaxwell]

No matter.

 

I think getting medical treatment on a cruise ship, any line, is a bit of a crap shoot. Purely dependent on the physician, notwithstanding his/her education, skills, references. And level of competence and caring. And it can be a bit of a crap shoot in other instances as well. At the end of the day physicians are people like anyone else. They have their strengths and their weaknesses.

 

Bottom line, I hope that I never have to find out from personal experience if the one on a ship that I am on is skilled, is competent, is caring, is knowledgeable. Don't wish that on anyone. I am certain that HAL's team is fine, just as fine as those on other cruise lines or cruise ships.

 

spot on

[Emergency]

Iv

please be aware that due to the recent merger of Holland America's and Princess's medical departments, passenger physicians on board are NO LONGER from the US or Canada!!

The US and Canadian physicians used on board have all been dismissed by the new medical director who comes from Princess.

.

 

I am the expert on this. Everything is true. After 16 years of sterling medical services for Holland (all the while active working ER Doctor with 4 specialized boards they fired me.All the young South African doctors are not residency trained,and can be seen reading basic medicine such as reading EKGs! They are given 2 weeks orientation for ship administration.Due to the wrong decision of throwing me to the wolves to fend for myself navigating new computer systems and working 30 days straight without help and never off ship for a break in the Polynesia (!) I asked to go home due to burnout and get proper training and return as a dedicated and loyalist person and doctor I never heard from them,until yesterday when new scheduler excitedly copied medical director who said I was doctor not welcome according to ‘management ‘.

They are only looking out for South African dangerous doctors just like the medical directors are.They have no heart and charge for a bandaid.I wouldn’t refer anyone to cruise on the death ship!