New gratuities by May 1st, 2016

[LMaxwell]

I have very mixed feelings about gratuity. I understand the majority of people working onboard live in situations less fortunate than many of the cruisers. Several times with MTD, we were only addressed and served by the assistant waiter. We went to complain in the dining room to the head waiter, but he couldn't be bothered to listen to us, let alone address the problem. Other times service has far surpassed our expectations and we have felt compelled to tip additionally. We also travel with a party of 4-5 in one stateroom. Given that roughly $7.50pp goes to the room steward, that easily is $30-$37.50 daily to clean the cabin, $210-262.50 weekly. I don't tip a land based hotel housekeeper that much on a nightly basis. If a room steward cleans 4 rooms (and I think I'm low balling this number), they make more weekly than many Americans do! I realize these people work hard, there is no part of customer service that is easy, but I do not feel it is my responsibility to subsidize individual paychecks. That responsibility falls entirely to the employer, RCCL.

 

On carnival stewards have been telling people lately they are responsible for 35 rooms; one head steward with an assistant. I did some math and figured out that the a steward should be making close to $70K per year, US Dollars, untaxed, with an assistant making around $40K. In addition to any base wage, benefits, and not accounting for food and housing.

 

I don't for a second believe any steward on any ship is actually being paid that amount....what is collected versus what is being claimed to be the actual payments leaves a pretty big delta. Even allowing that my math may be "off" to some degree, it is not enough to fully explain it. that is why my first post on the subject was that I sure hope the staff in the pool is getting all of the increase, but, pragmatism suggests otherwise.

[knittinggirl]

From a customer viewpoint, the DSC may be a stupid idea, but from the cruise line's viewpoint, it is win/win.

 

One thing I did not make clear in my post #82 with regards to the minimum wage crew are paid is that the company does pay above this minimum, so that almost all "normal" reductions in DSC (they've got the statistical data to determine this) will still keep the wage above minimum. So, they can still use this as the stick of the carrot and stick method of management, while distancing themselves from being the "bad guy".

 

So, as long as the statistical mean of DSC is removed, or less, the company is not out anything, so there is no reason to increase the DSC. Frankly, I believe this increase in DSC is to cover the increase in MLC mandated minimum wage from $592 to $614. I believe the ILO will be meeting this year to determine the next 6-10 years' increases, and I would expect DSC's across the industry to climb to match.

Confused.

 

DSC = Daily Service Charge?

What's ILO and MLC Mean?

[tserface]

I confess, even though I've grown accustomed to in kind of a Borg "Resistance is futile" way to the new system, I still miss the last night of the cruise giving out tips to those who were listed and those who we thought made our vacation extra special.

 

We still do give out some "tips" for great service either during or at the end of the cruise, but it's not the same as giving out the envelopes like we used to do.

 

I'd guess enough people didn't feel that joy and so didn't tip so the cruise lines felt like they needed to become more adamant about doing it. I think they walk a fine line between getting enough for the cruise and making the cruise look too expensive (at first glance) so they split up a lot of the costs until later in the booking process. They have to compete with other companies who have to compete with them in a kind of vicious circle.

 

I think that introducing new ideas like MTD and DD only made the issue more confusing for people so doing pre-paid or auto-paid service charges actually simplifies it some.

 

But, like the song says, "It's never gonna be like old times again..."

 

Tom

 

Maybe it is because I cruised well before automatic gratuities were a "thing" and it was common place to give cash gratuities to those who provided service, at ones own discretion. Guidelines were published to give an idea, but there was nothing mandatory. In those times the behind the scenes staff that never provided a face to face service to guests were, ostensibly, paid a going rate for the services they provided to their employers in maintaining the ships hotel facilities. To subject those in hotel maintenance positions to a tipped wage is, in my opinion, less than honorable.

[tserface]

I think for how hard they work $70K and $40K per year wouldn't be unreasonable. I don't have any idea what they actually make, but they are away from their families for months at a time, have to clean up 35 messy rooms a few times a day, and have to be nice to people that are sometimes not nice to them.

 

I don't want that job...

 

Tom

 

On carnival stewards have been telling people lately they are responsible for 35 rooms; one head steward with an assistant. I did some math and figured out that the a steward should be making close to $70K per year, US Dollars, untaxed, with an assistant making around $40K. In addition to any base wage, benefits, and not accounting for food and housing.

 

I don't for a second believe any steward on any ship is actually being paid that amount....what is collected versus what is being claimed to be the actual payments leaves a pretty big delta. Even allowing that my math may be "off" to some degree, it is not enough to fully explain it. that is why my first post on the subject was that I sure hope the staff in the pool is getting all of the increase, but, pragmatism suggests otherwise.

[LA_CA_GAL]

........Whether we pay part of their salary in cruise fee or added on service charge doesn't make any difference to me. I still have to pay it.

Tom

 

No, you do not. And some elect not to.

[chengkp75]

Do they have a deduction for room and board?

 

When I worked for YMCA of the Rockies, we got a low wage like $200/month, but we also got room and board. So, the $200/month ended up being gravy!

 

I'm guessing this is another situation where the crew are exempt from overtime. That is exempt from getting paid, not working it.

 

No, room and board are not charged.

 

As I posted before, the minimum wage of $614/month is based on a 40 hour work week, and any hours over the 40 in a week are paid at a rate at least 1.25 times their base rate, however, there is language in the MLC regarding "consolidated" wages, which means they just tell you how many hours per week you are expected to work, and then there is a "consolidated" rate for each hour worked, which is a melding of the 40 hours at base rate and excess of 40 hours at 1.25 base rate. Collective bargaining agreements between the company and the hiring agencies or unions representing the crew can also affect wages, but not below the minimum.

 

I probably opened a whole can of worms by citing even fictitious numbers, because it is not a simple formula, and some jobs get the lion's share of wage from DSC, and some get a majority, and some get less than 50%.

Edited March 30, 2016 by chengkp75

[tserface]

Yes, you are technically correct, but "I" feel like I have to pay it. They wouldn't strongly recommend it to the point of making it kind of tricky to not pay it if they didn't really want you to make it part of the mix.

 

Tom

 

No, you do not. And some elect not to.

[knittinggirl]

. . . it is not a simple formula, and some jobs get the lion's share of wage from DSC, and some get a majority, and some get less than 50%.

It almost sounds like those that get a larger percentage from DSC get less from Royal Caribbean itself, so they're keeping it down to $614 total.

 

One of the servers told us he'd rather take money in cash instead of us adding the $1 to his bill. He said, after everyone got their cut, he'd only get around 5 cents of it.

 

So, now we have to bring more singles than we used to.

Edited March 30, 2016 by knittinggirl

[helenasue]

I called today about this to pre-pay the gratuity before the deadline and the CSA clarified that you don't actually have to pay the gratuities before the deadline, just have the pre-paid gratuity option assessed to your account. I still did anyway just to be safe, but just an FYI not to panic for those who may not have the cash lying around at the moment.

[helenasue]

It is extremely difficult work. My stepmom's brother and his wife are from Thailand and work as wait staff on the ship and the hours and labor involved are intense. Like 7 days a week, 15 hours a day intense. I really don't know how they do it, but I have immense respect for the crew and would never, never even consider skipping the gratuity. I'd even advise those able to do so that it really makes their day brighter to be slipped an extra $20 here and there.

 

I think for how hard they work $70K and $40K per year wouldn't be unreasonable. I don't have any idea what they actually make, but they are away from their families for months at a time, have to clean up 35 messy rooms a few times a day, and have to be nice to people that are sometimes not nice to them.

 

I don't want that job...

 

Tom

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Do they have a deduction for room and board?

 

When I worked for YMCA of the Rockies, we got a low wage like $200/month, but we also got room and board. So, the $200/month ended up being gravy!

 

I'm guessing this is another situation where the crew are exempt from overtime. That is exempt from getting paid, not working it.

 

How does it work when we have more than two in a room?

 

OT here, but when did you work for the YMCA of the Rockies? I did two summers while I was in college and LOVED it!!

[njm5378]

The amount of controversy on this issue baffles me. I pay the auto gratuities, and tip additionally for exceptional service. What many people fail to see is that tipping is personal. Customs of tipping and standards of service vary around the world and that is reflected in opinions.

 

I choose auto gratuities due to the fact that I am not going to tip the bar back that carried my beer from the bowels of the ship to the pool bar and I am not going to tip the laundry worker that made sure I had clean sheets, or the person who cleaned the bathroom outside the Windjammer. These people contributed to my enjoyment on the ship and auto gratuities makes sure they are tipped, even though I have no idea who they are. Like I said, a personal decision and by no means my expectation for anyone else.

 

The only area of this subject that angers me is when someone expects to pay the minimum required and receive the highest level of service, you should expect the minimum level of service.

[Ocean Boy]

The amount of controversy on this issue baffles me. I pay the auto gratuities, and tip additionally for exceptional service. What many people fail to see is that tipping is personal. Customs of tipping and standards of service vary around the world and that is reflected in opinions.

 

I choose auto gratuities due to the fact that I am not going to tip the bar back that carried my beer from the bowels of the ship to the pool bar and I am not going to tip the laundry worker that made sure I had clean sheets, or the person who cleaned the bathroom outside the Windjammer. These people contributed to my enjoyment on the ship and auto gratuities makes sure they are tipped, even though I have no idea who they are. Like I said, a personal decision and by no means my expectation for anyone else.

 

The only area of this subject that angers me is when someone expects to pay the minimum required and receive the highest level of service, you should expect the minimum level of service.

And yet, somehow, those very same people seemed to make a living aboard the ship long before auto tipping was invented.

[njm5378]

And yet, somehow, those very same people seemed to make a living aboard the ship long before auto tipping was invented.

 

I'm not disputing that. My post was in regards to gratuity and my ability to personally tip an employee, not base wage.

[Miryam1234]

I confess, even though I've grown accustomed to in kind of a Borg "Resistance is futile" way to the new system, I still miss the last night of the cruise giving out tips to those who were listed and those who we thought made our vacation extra special.

 

We still do give out some "tips" for great service either during or at the end of the cruise, but it's not the same as giving out the envelopes like we used to do.

 

I'd guess enough people didn't feel that joy and so didn't tip so the cruise lines felt like they needed to become more adamant about doing it. I think they walk a fine line between getting enough for the cruise and making the cruise look too expensive (at first glance) so they split up a lot of the costs until later in the booking process. They have to compete with other companies who have to compete with them in a kind of vicious circle.

 

I think that introducing new ideas like MTD and DD only made the issue more confusing for people so doing pre-paid or auto-paid service charges actually simplifies it some..

 

Tom

It does simplify things to some people considering the growing amount of non-US cruisers who are not familiar or used to this tipping thing due to their different habits. We did find the envelopes (or the plain cash! ) sort of awkward and did not know how to hand them the proper way during our very first cruise. Nowadays we prepay, because it simplifies things to us. We do tip i.e roomservice because Ive learned to do so thanks to CC. But there are lots of cruisers who never see these boards, nor read RCI instructions.

 

One thing that strikes me odd, however, is the thinking that people would not do their job properly if they weren't getting tips. There are lots of places functioning well and having great service without the concept of tips. But tey are outside US.

 

Pardon for spelling mistakes, English is only my third language.

[cjdixon4]

IF and only if someone really blows my socks off will they get extra .

I sort of agree with you on this one. I've experienced some pretty great sailings, but I have YET to have my socks blown off. Until then... :rolleyes:

[Overtyme]

I posted this on my roll call, but it probably belongs here....

 

I have a lot of OBC and called to see if I could apply a portion of that to pre-paid gratuities. They cannot do that at RC, but they said that the travel agent may be able to.

I called up the TA to see if I could reduce my OBC and then add pre-paid gratuities. They said that they couldn't do that.

It's only $5/pp for our cruise- not gonna break the bank either way, but the lack of flexibility/capability is frustrating.

$20 is still $20 more for me to spend.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Ocean Boy]

I sort of agree with you on this one. I've experienced some pretty great sailings, but I have YET to have my socks blown off. Until then... :rolleyes:

 

I mostly wear sandals aboard the ships. And since we all know that socks and sandals are a no no I, too, have yet to have my socks blown off.

[Cigar King]

I have a lot of OBC and called to see if I could apply a portion of that to pre-paid gratuities. They cannot do that at RC, but they said that the travel agent may be able to.

I called up the TA to see if I could reduce my OBC and then add pre-paid gratuities. They said that they couldn't do that.

It's only $5/pp for our cruise- not gonna break the bank either way, but the lack of flexibility/capability is frustrating.

$20 is still $20 more for me to spend.

 

If your OBC is refundable, or you plan on spending enough to cover your non-refundable, you could consider paying the gratuities in advance.

 

You would come out ahead in the deal, although you would need to float the money to Royal, so it's not a 100% trade.

[tserface]

I totally agree. I believe they would still do their jobs well even without knowing whether or not you're going to tip them. I also don't think they would spit in your food or throw your luggage into the water as some suppose.

 

For me, tipping is a way to say "thank you for going beyond the job to make my experience good". What RCI is charging is really a service charge for basic service. I think if someone removes it they are really asking for service for free. My guess is RCI makes is optional because of some technicality in pay structures or because they don't want to have to say it's a forced part of the price of the cruise even though it is implied that is expected.

 

It is much simpler now than it used to be and less awkward for some. That's a good point.

 

Your English is very good.

 

Tom

 

It does simplify things to some people considering the growing amount of non-US cruisers who are not familiar or used to this tipping thing due to their different habits. We did find the envelopes (or the plain cash! ) sort of awkward and did not know how to hand them the proper way during our very first cruise. Nowadays we prepay, because it simplifies things to us. We do tip i.e roomservice because Ive learned to do so thanks to CC. But there are lots of cruisers who never see these boards, nor read RCI instructions.

 

One thing that strikes me odd, however, is the thinking that people would not do their job properly if they weren't getting tips. There are lots of places functioning well and having great service without the concept of tips. But tey are outside US.

 

Pardon for spelling mistakes, English is only my third language.

[knittinggirl]

ot here, but when did you work for the ymca of the rockies?

1980.

[tserface]

If you plan to spend the money anyway (gratuities) then floating the money is almost not a consideration at all since the interest you'd make is pretty minimal (cents) and it's not enough money to do any really good investing.

 

If you are counting on the funds to live in the mean time, that's a different situation of course.

 

I was having a conversation with my daughter last weekend and she was remarking (from previous conversations) that she knows it's not a good idea to get a tax refund because the government is keeping your money so you can't get interest. I told her, these days, the interest on her tax refund was less than $4/year. In that case, it's almost a good idea to use the IRS as a forced savings plan so you aren't tempted to spend the money until it's accumulated to some reasonable amount every year :)

 

Tom

If your OBC is refundable, or you plan on spending enough to cover your non-refundable, you could consider paying the gratuities in advance.

 

You would come out ahead in the deal, although you would need to float the money to Royal, so it's not a 100% trade.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1980.

 

Cool! About 10 years before me. Awesome place!!

[chengkp75]

Confused.

 

DSC = Daily Service Charge?

What's ILO and MLC Mean?

 

Yes, DSC is daily service charge, I refuse to call it gratuity.

 

ILO is the International Labor Organization, a UN body that has worked in conjunction with the IMO (International Maritime Organization) to create the MLC (Maritime Labor Convention) that covers the wages and welfare of the seafarers of the world.

[chengkp75]

On carnival stewards have been telling people lately they are responsible for 35 rooms; one head steward with an assistant. I did some math and figured out that the a steward should be making close to $70K per year, US Dollars, untaxed, with an assistant making around $40K. In addition to any base wage, benefits, and not accounting for food and housing.

 

I don't for a second believe any steward on any ship is actually being paid that amount....what is collected versus what is being claimed to be the actual payments leaves a pretty big delta. Even allowing that my math may be "off" to some degree, it is not enough to fully explain it. that is why my first post on the subject was that I sure hope the staff in the pool is getting all of the increase, but, pragmatism suggests otherwise.

 

I know I've been out of the game for a few years, but there is no way that one cabin steward, even with an assistant, could service 35 cabins. Just not in the realm of possibility and maintain USPH protocols.