Could the SS United States steal some passengers from the Cunard Line?

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Now that Crystal Cruises is doing a feasibility study about restoring the SS United States to service,the results of this study will be announced in November of this year, does anyone here think that can the renovated SS United States steal some passengers away from the Cunard Line if Crystal Cruises does renovate the SS United States? The renovated SS United States will only carry about 800 passengers and with only 800 passengers aboard the renovated SS United States the fares can be much more expensive than Cunard but I do admit to giving the renovated SS United States a try if I can afford it. The voyages for the SS United States are rumored to be worldwide cruises and transatlantic crossings if Crystal Cruises does renovate the SS United States. Regards,Jerry

[Underwatr]

I'd like to try the SSUS for a transatlantic but if she'll only carry 800 passengers I suspect that they won't be trying to poach Britannia class passengers from Cunard. Possibly too rich for my iron-poor blood.

[Jim Avery]

Yes, it will be more expensive, probably around what the Grills cost but Crystal is all inclusive too. I expect food and service will be a cut above and if they do a more rapid Transatlantic than the current slow slog on QM2, I feel they will do well. The decor will probably be much nicer than the original ever was. I am interested to see what plans they have for engines. That should tip us off a bit as to what they really intend.

[Keith1010]

Sometimes these things work both ways.

 

Some people might try the SS United States in line of a Cunard sailing but it could also bring more attention to the tradition associated with this type of cruising who have never sailed Cunard and after sailing SS United States they might want to give Cunard a try.

 

Time will tell.

 

Keith

[Jim Avery]

Sometimes these things work both ways.

 

Some people might try the SS United States in line of a Cunard sailing but it could also bring more attention to the tradition associated with this type of cruising who have never sailed Cunard and after sailing SS United States they might want to give Cunard a try.

 

Time will tell.

 

Keith

 

Excellent point Keith.:D

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Yes, it will be more expensive, probably around what the Grills cost but Crystal is all inclusive too. I expect food and service will be a cut above and if they do a more rapid Transatlantic than the current slow slog on QM2, I feel they will do well. The decor will probably be much nicer than the original ever was. I am interested to see what plans they have for engines. That should tip us off a bit as to what they really intend.

 

Jim, If Crystal Cruises does renovate the SS United States, the engine plans should be like what Cunard did to the QE2 in 1986-87 when her propulsion plant was changed from steam to diesel-electric. The question I m asking is will Crystal Cruises keep the propeller shafts or change to pods? It is my guess that the SS United States will probably keep her propeller shafts since her underwater stern section is not flat like the QM2's is and the QM2 does have pods. Regards,Jerry

[rolfecms]

Finding an itinerary niche for SSUS could be challenging for Crystal. Crystal operates cruise vacations, not transatlantic crossings. Also, IMHO the demand is not large enough for two regularly schedules transatlantic crossings. The lack of balconies would seem to keep the ship out of the tropics where balconies are more heavily used and expected. This assumes of course that Crystal does not reconfigure the superstructure to add decks and balconies.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

Finding an itinerary niche for SSUS could be challenging for Crystal. Crystal operates cruise vacations, not transatlantic crossings. Also, IMHO the demand is not large enough for two regularly schedules transatlantic crossings. The lack of balconies would seem to keep the ship out of the tropics where balconies are more heavily used and expected. This assumes of course that Crystal does not reconfigure the superstructure to add decks and balconies.

From what I have seen the renovated SS United States superstructure will have balconies. As for transatlantic crossings maybe there would be only a few each year or maybe as much as the QM2 does each year if the transatlantic crossing by ship market can support 2 ships the QM2 and the SS United States. Since the renovated SS United States will only carry 800 passengers I think that the fares will be much more expensive than the Cunard Line. Regards,Jerry

[Jim Avery]

Jim, If Crystal Cruises does renovate the SS United States, the engine plans should be like what Cunard did to the QE2 in 1986-87 when her propulsion plant was changed from steam to diesel-electric. The question I m asking is will Crystal Cruises keep the propeller shafts or change to pods? It is my guess that the SS United States will probably keep her propeller shafts since her underwater stern section is not flat like the QM2's is and the QM2 does have pods. Regards,Jerry

 

I suspect the shafts will be used. The hull, as you say, is not designed for pods. I have to think it would add a huge amount to the already very expensive refit to re engineer the aft hull area to work with pods. What I want to see is if they keep all 4 shafts or go to two. I am betting on two. Of course QE2 managed 35 knots on only two shafts so it depends on how much power they install. Fun to watch since I don't have to pay for it. :D

[balf]

It's got to happen first though, we are still waiting for the QE2 project to start.

 

David.

[Cruise Liner Fan]

It's got to happen first though, we are still waiting for the QE2 project to start.

 

David.

I would like to see the QE2 brought to Southampton or Liverpool to be used as a floating hotel/convention center. Regards,Jerry

[balf]

I would like to see the QE2 brought to Southampton or Liverpool to be used as a floating hotel/convention center. Regards,Jerry

 

 

Unfortunatly that's even less likely.

 

David.

[Lakesregion]

Actually it could be a huge boost to Cunard. Crystal has eliminated the formality of cruising so all those folks currently seeking to use Cunard for "Transportation' and not wishing to follow the formal aspects of Cunard can head over to Crystal. Cunard can then stop their down marketing and concentrate on those folks still left in the world who love civilized formal sea travel.

[Tampa Girl]

Actually it could be a huge boost to Cunard. Crystal has eliminated the formality of cruising so all those folks currently seeking to use Cunard for "Transportation' and not wishing to follow the formal aspects of Cunard can head over to Crystal. Cunard can then stop their down marketing and concentrate on those folks still left in the world who love civilized formal sea travel.

 

You make a good point. Although our dream of a world cruise is, at the moment, primarily a dream, the idea of continuing Cunard's formality for around 120 days is formidable. I would prefer to sail one of HAL's world cruises.

 

As far as the transportation aspect, I think you are right that many people only take Cunard for transportation purposes and would prefer to take in a less formal setting. I prefer the formal, but not for 120 days.

[highcbob]

I came back to Cruise Critic after a long hiatus as this topic caught Uncle (HighC) Bob's attention.

 

I was so excited to hear the announcement by 'Crystal' of possibly putting this beautiful sleek liner back into service. What a sight to behold if this all comes true.

[chengkp75]

I suspect the shafts will be used. The hull, as you say, is not designed for pods. I have to think it would add a huge amount to the already very expensive refit to re engineer the aft hull area to work with pods. What I want to see is if they keep all 4 shafts or go to two. I am betting on two. Of course QE2 managed 35 knots on only two shafts so it depends on how much power they install. Fun to watch since I don't have to pay for it. :D

 

While it would be more cost effective to reduce to 2 shafts, I'm not sure they can effectively get the required horsepower out of two electric motors of a size that would fit. Also, the engine rooms are far further forward than current diesel-electric design, so the entire power plant re-engining will be interesting, and complicated, if it happens. Pods are basically out of the question.

 

As far as cost, while it hasn't been announced whether the ship will remain US flag, and to me that would be the only reason to renovate the ship, the costs would be unbelievable. Look at NCL's POA, where a 7 day cruise, with minimal fuel consumption (60 hours at sea/week) is priced comparably with a foreign flag cruise from the West Coast for 14 days, with 10 full sea days.

 

I really don't see this as a viable operation, I think it is just the continuation of Tan Sri Lim's fixation on the SS United States.

[Jim Avery]

I have to agree with you Chief as much as I would like to see it sailing again.

[foodsvcmgr]

Read Crystal's press releases about their intentions for SS UNITED STATES, two important things are stated:

 

The goal is for the re-engined ship to remain the world's fastest (so we can assume Genting will be looking for Lloyd Werft, which they now also own, to install a powerplant similar to what was given to QE2).

 

Also Transatlantic crossings will be one of her featured itineraries.

 

So if it all comes to pass, I believe the US certainly will draw some pax away from QM2. Just how many will depend on pricing among other factors.

 

Hopefully might also help motivate Cunard into allowing QM2 to once again sail at the service speed for which she was designed.

[chengkp75]

Read Crystal's press releases about their intentions for SS UNITED STATES, two important things are stated:

 

The goal is for the re-engined ship to remain the world's fastest (so we can assume Genting will be looking for Lloyd Werft, which they now also own, to install a powerplant similar to what was given to QE2).

 

Also Transatlantic crossings will be one of her featured itineraries.

 

So if it all comes to pass, I believe the US certainly will draw some pax away from QM2. Just how many will depend on pricing among other factors.

 

Hopefully might also help motivate Cunard into allowing QM2 to once again sail at the service speed for which she was designed.

 

Lets run down some stats on SSUS, QE2 and QM2:

 

Displacement:

 

SSUS: 47000 t

QE2: 49000 t

QM2: 75000 t

 

Propulsion power:

 

SSUS: 240000 hp (179 Mw)

QE2: 88 Mw (119000 hp)

QM2: 85 Mw (114000 hp)

 

Max speed:

 

SSUS: 38 knots

QE2: 34 knots

QM2: 30 knots

 

So, the SSUS requires twice the horsepower to push her to 4 knots faster than the QE2 could do. Given that the power requirement increases exponentially, those last 4 knots should not have required twice the power unless they were pushing the SSUS beyond hull speed. And the newer QM2 does nearly the same speed with 150% of the displacement.

 

Even to just top the speed of the QM2 to remain the fastest "in service" liner will require most likely 160000 hp, or 120 Mw or nearly 50% more power than the QM2. To retain her title of "fastest ever" would require the original 240000 hp. Fuel consumption goes up just as fast as horsepower when increasing speed, so the fuel bill will be commensurately higher, with a vastly smaller (800 vs 2600) passenger base to spread it over.

 

Even should Crystal install sufficient horsepower to retain the original max speed, I would doubt that it would be used more than once, to prove itself, and then she would slow down just like the QM2 has.

 

Throw in the US flag costs and you have something that cannot compete economically with any other ship, and would have to find its own niche demographic.

[exbiologist]

I really love the engineering thought you put into some of these posts. Thank you

[Jim Avery]

I really love the engineering thought you put into some of these posts. Thank you

 

he is a King's Point Chief Engineer. He has no other way to think.:eek: Just razzing you Chief. More than one Chief Engineer on my ships reminded me: "Cap'n, If I don't keep those engines running, you aren't going anywhere.":D

[chengkp75]

he is a King's Point Chief Engineer. He has no other way to think.:eek: Just razzing you Chief. More than one Chief Engineer on my ships reminded me: "Cap'n, If I don't keep those engines running, you aren't going anywhere.":D

 

Look at Columbus. Without engineers, he thought the New World was China! I tell my Skippers, "its my ship, I just let you drive it" ;)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Lets run down some stats on SSUS, QE2 and QM2:

 

Displacement:

 

SSUS: 47000 t

QE2: 49000 t

QM2: 75000 t

 

Propulsion power:

 

SSUS: 240000 hp (179 Mw)

QE2: 88 Mw (119000 hp)

QM2: 85 Mw (114000 hp)

 

Max speed:

 

SSUS: 38 knots

QE2: 34 knots

QM2: 30 knots

 

So, the SSUS requires twice the horsepower to push her to 4 knots faster than the QE2 could do. Given that the power requirement increases exponentially, those last 4 knots should not have required twice the power unless they were pushing the SSUS beyond hull speed. And the newer QM2 does nearly the same speed with 150% of the displacement.

 

Even to just top the speed of the QM2 to remain the fastest "in service" liner will require most likely 160000 hp, or 120 Mw or nearly 50% more power than the QM2. To retain her title of "fastest ever" would require the original 240000 hp. Fuel consumption goes up just as fast as horsepower when increasing speed, so the fuel bill will be commensurately higher, with a vastly smaller (800 vs 2600) passenger base to spread it over.

 

Even should Crystal install sufficient horsepower to retain the original max speed, I would doubt that it would be used more than once, to prove itself, and then she would slow down just like the QM2 has.

 

Throw in the US flag costs and you have something that cannot compete economically with any other ship, and would have to find its own niche demographic.

 

Interesting stats. I find it difficult to believe they'd spend the money on engine power to go so fast and then not use it. Doesn't SSUS still hold the record for a crossing? If so there's no need for her to "win" it again.

 

If they do try to match her previous speed, they'll have a huge fuel bill! When we did the behind-the-scenes tour on QM2, we were told that crossing in 5 days instead of 7 would roughly double the fuel consumption. Your stats seem to show a similar ratio. That fuel bill is going to be spread over only 600 passengers? ouch!

 

On another subject, is Scotty your favorite Star Trek character? ;)

[Jim Avery]

Look at Columbus. Without engineers, he thought the New World was China! I tell my Skippers, "its my ship, I just let you drive it" ;)

 

Come to think of it I did have a CE that said almost those same words. And something about a "Trained Monkey". You guys can be so rude.:D Actually, when you think about two "Experts" trained in totally different curricula expected to then work together to complete a job that can last months, It's amazing how well it works most times. I had really good relationships with most of the CEs I worked with.

[chengkp75]

Come to think of it I did have a CE that said almost those same words. And something about a "Trained Monkey". You guys can be so rude.:D Actually, when you think about two "Experts" trained in totally different curricula expected to then work together to complete a job that can last months, It's amazing how well it works most times. I had really good relationships with most of the CEs I worked with.

 

I might have used the "high paid bus driver" sometimes, but I don't think I'd go with the "trained monkee". After a few years together, even the junior officers think the Captain and Chief act like an old married couple, completing each other's sentences and such.