LAFFNVEGAS LIVE from the Premier Sailings of the MS Koningsdam

[InTheWASide]

I'm not so sure you're right about that.

 

If what I have read is true---that HAL doesn't make a profit on sale of cabins, that the profit is from on-board spending, that Mariners don't spend as much on board as new cruisers---then I can believe HAL doesn't value their Mariners as much as we might like to believe.

So, looking into drawing in new passengers, giving them what HAL thinks they are looking for, and to heck with the long-term Mariners and the features they want, is more than a distinct possibility to my mind.

 

Ruth, with that "more than a distinct possibility to [your] mind" can I be a little more blunt then and ask why you continue to cruise with HAL?

 

If you have this mindset that they are out to purge the long time mariners because "Mariners don't spend as much on board as new cruisers" (which is a blanket statement that isn't necessarily true. I know several people that when they cruise, and some of them do VERY often, they go "all out" with spa services, duty free purchases, maybe a little casino, shore excursions, specialty restaurants, maybe a beverage package, etc.)

 

Some travel often and then pinch pennies onboard. Some travel rarely but go all out. And some are lucky enough to cruise often AND go all out. But this pessimistic post of yours makes me wonder why, if you feel that way, you don't move on.

 

I'm not saying you should and trying to be "so leave" but if I felt the way that you do I would have "moved on" a long time ago. Just my opinion following reading your post.

[SC_GAY_Cruiser]

Brad - see my thoughts on the thread you started on the Vista Suites.

 

I am one of those people who don't cruise every year or even take multiple cruises per year let alone multi-weeks.

 

My budget for the K'dam is 50% of my cabin charge. That equates to a 2000 dollar vacation for 7 day cruise. There are a lot of places I can go that would cost less than 2000/week, but I choose to go on a cruise...... and my goal is NOT to be multi-star Mariner.

 

dave

Edited May 4, 2016 by SC_GAY_Cruiser

[Chelly]

Ruth, with that "more than a distinct possibility to [your] mind" can I be a little more blunt then and ask why you continue to cruise with HAL?

 

If you have this mindset that they are out to purge the long time mariners because "Mariners don't spend as much on board as new cruisers" (which is a blanket statement that isn't necessarily true. I know several people that when they cruise, and some of them do VERY often, they go "all out" with spa services, duty free purchases, maybe a little casino, shore excursions, specialty restaurants, maybe a beverage package, etc.)

 

Some travel often and then pinch pennies onboard. Some travel rarely but go all out. And some are lucky enough to cruise often AND go all out. But this pessimistic post of yours makes me wonder why, if you feel that way, you don't move on.

 

I'm not saying you should and trying to be "so leave" but if I felt the way that you do I would have "moved on" a long time ago. Just my opinion following reading your post.

 

Point well taken. However, it seems that other cruise lines' loyalty programs are more generous than HAL's.

And, it takes far less time to get from level to level on some other cruise lines. For example, an inordinate number (IMO) of cruises are required on HAL to reach 4-star from 3-star.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Chelly

[InTheWASide]

Point well taken. However, it seems that other cruise lines' loyalty programs are more generous than HAL's.

And, it takes far less time to get from level to level on some other cruise lines. For example, an inordinate number (IMO) of cruises are required on HAL to reach 4-star from 3-star.

 

They also can't make it so that "everyone" is at the highest levels. I've been on some of John Heald's blogger cruises (1 of the Splendors, Magic and Breeze in my signature) and those have A LOT of die-hard loyal to Carnival folks. The ratio of folks in the top 2 tiers onboard can overwhelm the staff, the various venues and make those that aren't Platinum and Diamond on their plan feel like worthless sacks of crap (just being honest here) and that wasn't a charter, just a group of 600-800 on ships that can hold 3500-3700 with probably 50% or more of that group alone at the top tiers. Then you have everyone else that just happens to be on that cruise. If they make it too easily achievable you'll have situations very similar to this and no doubt HAL wants to avoid that (among other things)

 

It also, depending on "how you cruise" may not be too difficult after all. The one time I've ever booked a Penthouse (now Pinnacle Suite) on Eurodam we got 7 cruise credits for the 7 days, where in a suite so we got 7 more and then between the Grand Cabana on HMC and typical spending over the course of a week we got another 7 from that. In 1, one week cruise we got 21 days. While our income bracket doesn't allow THAT kind of trip every time, if it did then in only 10 cruises I'm a 4 star. Book the Grand World Voyage in a suite and spend nothing (or alternately don't book a suite but spend a ton) and you can go from never having sailed to INSTANT 4 star Mariner.

 

HAL requires more days/cruises than some, yes, but they also AVERAGE longer cruises than most lines. Example - nearly all other lines regularly offer 3-5 day cruises. Some lines have ships that never do anything but those. It's a delicate balance. Or at least I view it that way

Edited May 4, 2016 by InTheWASide

[RuthC]

HAL has to appeal to a broad range of customers, old and new.

What I am suggesting is that HAL has made a conscious decision that they don't have to appeal to old customers (both in the sense of length of time with HAL, and age). The focus has switched to younger people, who want different things from a cruise, and from a cruise ship, than older Mariners do.

[albingirl]

Hold on, there are a lot of us who aren't in the graveyard yet. So, look, if we really like to chill on the Promenade deck with a book, that doesn't make us irrelevant. There are certain amenities that cause us to book a cruise with HAL, and forgive us for being old fashioned, but some of us love the whole relaxed adventure combined with elegant dining experience. Oh, and by the way, we do go to the gym every day too:)

[POA1]

I'm not so sure you're right about that.

 

If what I have read is true---that HAL doesn't make a profit on sale of cabins, that the profit is from on-board spending, that Mariners don't spend as much on board as new cruisers---then I can believe HAL doesn't value their Mariners as much as we might like to believe.

So, looking into drawing in new passengers, giving them what HAL thinks they are looking for, and to heck with the long-term Mariners and the features they want, is more than a distinct possibility to my mind.

Older, more experienced cruisers spend more - per person, per diem - on average than young people do. (Don't even try the "photo package" canard. How many septuagenarians are running around with selfie sticks?)

 

Older passengers are more likely to take cruise line excursions than young people are. They're more likely to order wine. They're more likely to book classes and pay for enrichment activities. They're definitely more likely to spend on specialty dining.

 

I'm sure that you'll be able to find exceptions, but if you have hard data, please email me and we can discuss.

[RuthC]

I'm sure that you'll be able to find exceptions, but if you have hard data, please email me and we can discuss.

You'll notice I said "If what I have read is true...". It's been posted in threads more times than I can count, including posts by people who work in the business, that HAL wants new passengers because those who have been around don't spend as much.

If you want the hard data, you'll do better asking them for it.

[Oville]

Older, more experienced cruisers spend more - per person, per diem - on average than young people do. (Don't even try the "photo package" canard. How many septuagenarians are running around with selfie sticks?)

 

Older passengers are more likely to take cruise line excursions than young people are. They're more likely to order wine. They're more likely to book classes and pay for enrichment activities. They're definitely more likely to spend on specialty dining.

 

I'm sure that you'll be able to find exceptions, but if you have hard data, please email me and we can discuss.

 

I truly doubt your assumption that more experienced cruisers spend more, they simply don't and they rarely take ship excursions if they know ports well enough and do not spend a ton of money in the onboard shops.

 

What I think is that cruise lines like HAL and Celebrity are really marketing to people who are willing to shell out the big bucks for higher priced suites. For sure, currently Celebrity is winning that battle hands down as their suites perks blow HAL's away, and they are truly marketing to a more affluent younger crowd.

 

Having said all the above, we just booked a Neptune Suite on the Koningsdam and I've enjoyed the OP's pix. Variety is the spice of life, however, Celebrity's suite perks are far and away better than HALs.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Oville

[sail7seas]

Thisd is my irst cqnddce to read this gthrreqd since I got home. I'm enjoying ith

[Zermatt]

Thisd is my irst cqnddce to read this gthrreqd since I got home. I'm enjoying ith

 

Just a guess, but I think it says "This is my first chance to read this thread since I got home. I'm enjoying it."

[SilvertoGold]

People:

 

Sail is "back home" and may have been ill. Please give this some thought.

 

 

 

Dear Judy:

 

It is good to have you back on the Cruise Critic Boards! You have been missed and I hope you will stick around!!

[HeinzNo57]

I think overall, there are younger people that are not 'party mode' like Carnival ships attracts. I will most likely be one of the young couples with my wife, and I cannot tell you how much we LOVE the quiet, domiciled crowds like what the K will cater. Good food, good entertainment, and tranquil ports like the Dec 4th one we are booked for sealed the deal for us. We are 'foodies', and shell out the money like the retirement crowds the pessimistic view is arguing.

[teamflames]

I think overall, there are younger people that are not 'party mode' like Carnival ships attracts. I will most likely be one of the young couples with my wife, and I cannot tell you how much we LOVE the quiet, domiciled crowds like what the K will cater. Good food, good entertainment, and tranquil ports like the Dec 4th one we are booked for sealed the deal for us. We are 'foodies', and shell out the money like the retirement crowds the pessimistic view is arguing.

 

 

 

In the same boat [emoji6]

[sail7seas]

What I am suggesting is that HAL has made a conscious decision that they don't have to appeal to old customers (both in the sense of length of time with HAL, and age). The focus has switched to younger people, who want different things from a cruise, and from a cruise ship, than older Mariners do.

[b ] I Am an older xruiser, as you put it with over80+ HALdays. Do you know wwhat I want from a cruise? do I know wha? you want

In the same boat [emoji6]

[RuthC]

[b ] I Am an older xruiser, as you put it with over80+ HALdays. Do you know wwhat I want from a cruise? do I know wha? you want

In our cases, after all the posts we both have made, undoubtedly.

 

Which does not matter. What matters is does HAL know what they have been offering, and do they want to continue in that direction.

From the changes they have instituted, apparently not.

[kazu]

In our cases, after all the posts we both have made, undoubtedly.

 

Which does not matter. What matters is does HAL know what they have been offering, and do they want to continue in that direction.

From the changes they have instituted, apparently not.

 

Well said !

[Zyzygy]

A theory--only a theory--about the loss of Promenade deck chairs:

 

Koningsdam holds about 600 more passengers than Vista and Signature class ships.

 

The Promenade deck serves not only as a promenade, but also as the main evacuation/life boat muster deck.

 

After the experience of the Costa Concordia, and all of the videos of the crowds on her muster deck, one could understand that Carnival Corp might rethink the placement of any objects that could crowd that deck.

 

I, too, love the teak chairs. But if there were any issue about deciding whether to keep the chairs or to have a more open evacuation area on a ship with 600 more passengers, I would opt for fewer deck chairs (even if they were supposed to be stored out of the way).

 

Let me join the large chorus of appreciation for the thoughtful and insightful observations shared by LaffinVegas.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Zyzygy

[jakkojakko]

A theory--only a theory--about the loss of Promenade deck chairs:

 

Koningsdam holds about 600 more passengers than Vista and Signature class ships.

 

The Promenade deck serves not only as a promenade, but also as the main evacuation/life boat muster deck.

Not on Koningsdam, muster is inside

After the experience of the Costa Concordia, and all of the videos of the crowds on her muster deck, one could understand that Carnival Corp might rethink the placement of any objects that could crowd that deck.

 

I, too, love the teak chairs. But if there were any issue about deciding whether to keep the chairs or to have a more open evacuation area on a ship with 600 more passengers, I would opt for fewer deck chairs (even if they were supposed to be stored out of the way).

On Koningsdam there is no room for deckchairs. The promenade is not wide enough for them

Let me join the large chorus of appreciation for the thoughtful and insightful observations shared by LaffinVegas.

 

My comments in red.

[sail7seas]

In our cases, after all the posts we both have made, undoubtedly.

 

Which does not matter. What matters is does HAL know ttfmwny the changes HAL hae Sorry my hqnd iws bothering me qndI aa[/beam hsv inb s hsgc himf hgup considerably. The nonesene4ese of wasing efoort qnd money on the t qned 'IMPROED'/ LOGO. a;eolleyes They hqavve taqken much pff ghe Dutch out of hOLLANDD aMa NUMBEer OF THODR CHWNGRDS FO FEYTTRqm noam t of HAal C CXRUISEWES.

Edited May 7, 2016 by sail7seas

[catl331]

But if there were any issue about deciding whether to keep the chairs or to have a more open evacuation area ...

On the K there is far less open evacuation area, even without chairs, and musters will be done inside. IMHO the whole reason for the new design was to have more balcony cabins. Edited May 7, 2016 by catl331

[Susie51]

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.

[Retired 07]

I just read all 33 pages of your post, and wanted to say thank you! You covered everything that needed to be covered. My wife and I are planning a 14 day Norwegian fjords cruise next year, and were wavering between the Rotterdam and the Koningsdam. Although the Kdam has a slightly better itinerary, your review may have turned us to the Rotterdam. Thank you again!!

[Karennella]

We concluded our 20 night cruise last Sunday and it is interesting to review this thread.

Overall we had no big issues. The first cruise, the christening cruise, had quite a different demographic aboard than the last week which went to Norway. On the first sector there were 800 Americans, around 300 Aussies and Canadians and just under 400 Dutch. Announcements were only in English and we noticed that the many of the Dutch were very dressed up for the gala nights. I wished I had brought at least one extra formal outfit but our problem was our 20kg limit on our Cathay flight.

The second sector had, according to our steward, 1700 Dutch so all announcements were bilingual. The crowd seemed older with many more walkers and wheelchairs. Not as dressed up.

On that sector the ship seemed more crowded, the elevator waits were longer but I felt they handled disembarkation well.

The weather on the first sector was quite patchy. In fact the worst weather we have had in our nine visits to Europe so there was not much need to be out on the decks.

We were happy with our standard veranda suite though I personally dislike the large tv and its locatoion.

We were happy with the staff even though the room steward threw out two shirts as I had put them under the sink for washing and they had slipped into the waste basket ( which I never used for rubbish)

Food is entirely subjective and our group of 8 ate every night in the MDR. We overall were happy with the food.

I was pleased that they have now got vegemite but they have not worked out how to serve it! Also they have now got flat whites in Explorations cafe even though they are not much like those I have had at home this week. It is a good start.

We ended up doing many shore excursions and we were pleased with them all. We had booked a couple of private ones ahead but were able to book any we wanted aboard the day before.

Negatives include the fact that I personally did not like the decor but, like food that is entirely a matter of taste. Far too fussy to my eye but I would never choose or avoid a ship because of it.

I did not like the location of the casino as you needed to walk through it to get the dining room and usually it was full of smoke. I called the back pool the smokers pool as the smokers had about half of the area.

The entertainment was hit and miss, some excellent and a couple of shows dreadful. Also the music walk has noise issues with very good classical musicians having to play in opposition to sounds of bars, people leaving the early shows etc.

Overall a good cruise and my main problem is the throat virus I got aboard and which is getting worse a week later. Probably not helped by our flight home, which door to door, took 28 hours without any delays.

[Himself]

We concluded our 20 night cruise last Sunday and it is interesting to review this thread.

Overall we had no big issues. The first cruise, the christening cruise, had quite a different demographic aboard than the last week which went to Norway. On the first sector there were 800 Americans, around 300 Aussies and Canadians and just under 400 Dutch. Announcements were only in English and we noticed that the many of the Dutch were very dressed up for the gala nights. I wished I had brought at least one extra formal outfit but our problem was our 20kg limit on our Cathay flight.

The second sector had, according to our steward, 1700 Dutch so all announcements were bilingual. The crowd seemed older with many more walkers and wheelchairs. Not as dressed up.

On that sector the ship seemed more crowded, the elevator waits were longer but I felt they handled disembarkation well.

The weather on the first sector was quite patchy. In fact the worst weather we have had in our nine visits to Europe so there was not much need to be out on the decks.

We were happy with our standard veranda suite though I personally dislike the large tv and its locatoion.

We were happy with the staff even though the room steward threw out two shirts as I had put them under the sink for washing and they had slipped into the waste basket ( which I never used for rubbish)

Food is entirely subjective and our group of 8 ate every night in the MDR. We overall were happy with the food.

I was pleased that they have now got vegemite but they have not worked out how to serve it! Also they have now got flat whites in Explorations cafe even though they are not much like those I have had at home this week. It is a good start.

We ended up doing many shore excursions and we were pleased with them all. We had booked a couple of private ones ahead but were able to book any we wanted aboard the day before.

Negatives include the fact that I personally did not like the decor but, like food that is entirely a matter of taste. Far too fussy to my eye but I would never choose or avoid a ship because of it.

I did not like the location of the casino as you needed to walk through it to get the dining room and usually it was full of smoke. I called the back pool the smokers pool as the smokers had about half of the area.

The entertainment was hit and miss, some excellent and a couple of shows dreadful. Also the music walk has noise issues with very good classical musicians having to play in opposition to sounds of bars, people leaving the early shows etc.

Overall a good cruise and my main problem is the throat virus I got aboard and which is getting worse a week later. Probably not helped by our flight home, which door to door, took 28 hours without any delays.

 

Thank you for sharing you experience on the Koeningsdam.