Flying to AUs next March, need expertise

[tvmovielover]

One of the nicest lounges we have been in and jumping even at 11 at night. We were taking Virgin Australia (got a deal on business class), another good Australian choice.

[NoWhiners]

One of the nicest lounges we have been in and jumping even at 11 at night. We were taking Virgin Australia (got a deal on business class), another good Australian choice.

 

Good to know. I am getting tired of waiting for the booking window to open. But not looking forward to paying for the tickets :)

 

ML

[NoWhiners]

Hi all

 

Well, I am back now that the booking window we need has opened.

 

I have 1 question and am hoping someone out there has experience with this and can answer. One flight I am looking at on return from SYD (to ABQ) has us flying into DFW, with a 90 minute layover. This seems very short to me but it is an allowed flight/connection.

 

Has anyone been thru DFW with similar limitations? How close was it?

 

I am having a tough time balancing out LAX vs DFW, with a reasonable layover in whichever airport (we prefer not to spend 10-12 hours in any airport :), and price.

 

I have even checked Air2 Sea pricing but that doesn't seem any better, which I find oddd since they "guarantee" lowest fare and will give you back 10% if you can do better within 24 hours. I can do better right now! Maybe that means I should book it with them (and pay a $25 admin fee) and then ask for the 10% :D

 

Plus I am stuck with the age old question--should I book now or roll the dice on fares dropping!!

 

so many decisions

ML

[Gardyloo]

Hi all

 

Well, I am back now that the booking window we need has opened.

 

I have 1 question and am hoping someone out there has experience with this and can answer. One flight I am looking at on return from SYD (to ABQ) has us flying into DFW, with a 90 minute layover. This seems very short to me but it is an allowed flight/connection.

 

Has anyone been thru DFW with similar limitations? How close was it?

 

I am having a tough time balancing out LAX vs DFW, with a reasonable layover in whichever airport (we prefer not to spend 10-12 hours in any airport :), and price.

 

I have even checked Air2 Sea pricing but that doesn't seem any better, which I find oddd since they "guarantee" lowest fare and will give you back 10% if you can do better within 24 hours. I can do better right now! Maybe that means I should book it with them (and pay a $25 admin fee) and then ask for the 10% :D

 

Plus I am stuck with the age old question--should I book now or roll the dice on fares dropping!!

 

so many decisions

ML

I've done 90 min. international to domestic connections at DFW on a couple of occasions. Should be doable; of course it would be easier if you were to invest in Global Entry.

 

What are your dates and what prices are you seeing? It's possible AA and Qantas haven't opened up the cheapest fare buckets yet; it's their way of hedging against possible higher operating costs that might arise in the next 11 months.

[Bowie MeMe]

Hi all

 

Well, I am back now that the booking window we need has opened.

 

I have 1 question and am hoping someone out there has experience with this and can answer. One flight I am looking at on return from SYD (to ABQ) has us flying into DFW, with a 90 minute layover. This seems very short to me but it is an allowed flight/connection.

 

Has anyone been thru DFW with similar limitations? How close was it?

 

I am having a tough time balancing out LAX vs DFW, with a reasonable layover in whichever airport (we prefer not to spend 10-12 hours in any airport :), and price.

 

I have even checked Air2 Sea pricing but that doesn't seem any better, which I find oddd since they "guarantee" lowest fare and will give you back 10% if you can do better within 24 hours. I can do better right now! Maybe that means I should book it with them (and pay a $25 admin fee) and then ask for the 10% :D

 

Plus I am stuck with the age old question--should I book now or roll the dice on fares dropping!!

 

so many decisions

ML

 

Planes do seem to be fuller in my opinion -- less options and more people shopping for those award tickets with so many floating points from credit cards. I have gotten my last 4 flights at greatly reduced price (almost free except for taxes or something) with points. Works great. Do not be afraid to list out all acceptable flights (ITA matrix) within the different Alliances AND then pay the small fee to have an agent book it for you. They can see more availability on their screens especially for partners than I can see on my computer screen as a customer. Might help you find award tickets.

 

We have been doing breaks in those long flights and finding it wonderful. Going to Bali we flew IAD (Washington Dulles near home) to SFO (west coast any of them will do) and slept at nearby hotel w shuttle and caught the next scheduled flight (thus a connection and part of the award ticket! -- pointed out by agent) to Taiwan where we took 2 day stopover then on a partner airline to Bali (then separate ticket to Java but that was new deal) where we caught a cruise the week later and return from Tokyo Japan 3 weeks later. Around the world on less than 50 thousand miles each. Go to Cruise Critic cruise air and meet the genius level travel planners. They are willing to teach and advise.

 

Other breaks -- Tahiti on the way to New Zealand WONDERFUL RESORTS. pre-cruise 7 days in China and 6 in Bangkok before cruise Bangkok to Beijing roundtrip ticket IAD to PEK (with side tickets to Xian and Canton and then Bangkok). Fiji resort for 5 days before month land trip to Australia. And next month one way tickets to Germany for 10 day trip before transatlantic Voyage of the Vikings with little hop on Jet Blue home on Southwest which is priced each leg separately. We bought miles on sale for this one way fare because it is twice as expensive for a one way ticket as a round trip $700 vs $3,500 + for economy . FRA (Frankfort was much cheaper than AMS or Paris or London so we just added one day to our land tour). As you can tell I love the challenges of planning.

[NoWhiners]

I've done 90 min. international to domestic connections at DFW on a couple of occasions. Should be doable; of course it would be easier if you were to invest in Global Entry.

 

What are your dates and what prices are you seeing? It's possible AA and Qantas haven't opened up the cheapest fare buckets yet; it's their way of hedging against possible higher operating costs that might arise in the next 11 months.

 

Hi Gardyloo

 

Thanks for that feedback, good to know. Still can't decide about GE, benefits are good when it works but it seems to not always work, espeically for earl morning flights, which we often take.

 

Anyway, I have been looking at Departure from ABQ on Mar 9, 2017 to SYD and return on April 13, looking at PE cabin into SYD. I used ITA to look at plus/minus 2 days and got a lot of flights but not the combinations I would have liked. But, I admit, I didn't look at all 600 or so! The software seems to default to showing DFW for both trips, which didn't help me scope out LAX options for the RT. Prices pp RT seem to be between about $4500 and $6300.

 

We aren't using any award points or tickets, just cold hard cash! I did find another flight from DFW to ABQ that gives a 3 1/2 hour layover and get us home at 6 pm instead of 4, so that would work.

 

I am mindful of kenish's comment that if anything happened it would be easier to get a new flight out of LAX. So many things to consider.

 

And, I went back into Air2Sea today and they were offering RT pp at $2961. When I went back a few minutes later to review the flights again, the site said it was now down for maintenance and to come back later.

 

I am feeling so unlucky :)

 

ML

Edited May 22, 2016 by NoWhiners

[Gardyloo]

Prices pp RT seem to be between about $4500 and $6300.

This gets into airfare-babble-land a bit, but here's why those prices are way too high.

 

ITA looks at "fare categories" (also called "buckets") when coming up with a price. On any given flight, there are numerous fare buckets, each with an assigned code, that apply to seats. In economy class, for example, there might be a dozen or more fares for the same seat; each one different from the others depending on specific fare rules, whether they're refundable, how long they're good for, and on and on. These might have codes starting with Y, B, L, or S, or K, or N or many others. There are more buckets for business class (J, D, I, Z etc), for first class (P, A, F etc.), premium economy (T, W..) and so on.

 

What's happening with an ABQ-xDFW-SYD round trip, or ABQ-xLAX-SYD booked into premium economy on the transpacific flights, is that, because American Airlines doesn't offer premium economy on its domestic flights, in this case those between ABQ and either LAX or DFW, the ITA computers look for an AA fare category that DOES allow through-ticketing. The only one they find is a "Y" economy fare, which is the highest, most expensive unrestricted economy fare AA sells. It then adds that price to the premium economy fare bucket it sees is available from Qantas, and gives you, essentially, the sum of the two.

 

So for your days, a round trip in premium economy ticket from DFW to SYD, is $2722, using an American Airlines "code share" flight number on the Qantas nonstop flights. Also on the same days, a round trip in first class between ABQ and DFW sold by AA is around $625; in coach the ABQ-DFW round trip is $330.

 

So this is a case where two separate tickets, one from ABQ to DFW and back, the other from DFW to SYD and back, comes to $3350 in first class + premium economy, or $3050 in coach/PE, both MUCH less than your numbers above.

 

Obviously there's a minor risk in using two separate tickets. AA should agree to through-check your bags from ABQ to SYD (it's Oneworld policy) but it would be up to you to make sure you have adequate time at DFW between flights in case of flight delays. I certainly wouldn't risk any 90-min. connections at DFW or LAX (which is, by the way, more expensive than DFW using this approach.)

 

Hope this is clear.

[Globaliser]

Anyway, I have been looking at Departure from ABQ on Mar 9, 2017 to SYD and return on April 13, looking at PE cabin into SYD. I used ITA to look at plus/minus 2 days and got a lot of flights but not the combinations I would have liked. But, I admit, I didn't look at all 600 or so! The software seems to default to showing DFW for both trips, which didn't help me scope out LAX options for the RT. Prices pp RT seem to be between about $4500 and $6300.

I think you can do better than this, even now. You can also ask the engine to show you both DFW and LAX connections, and you can also mix and match these if the schedules work better for you.

 

Here's what to put into ITA:-

 

Departing from: abq

Advanced routing codes: aa,qf dfw,lax qf / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t

Destination: syd

Advanced routing codes: qf dfw,lax aa,qf / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t

 

You can get even cheaper results if you add in the possibility of an AA code across the Pacific, like this:-

 

Departing from: abq

Advanced routing codes: aa,qf dfw,lax qf,aa / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t

Destination: syd

Advanced routing codes: qf,aa dfw,lax aa,qf / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t

 

The returns that I see of AA fares claim that the trans-Pacifics (AA code on QF metal) are in premium economy. But you will need to check carefully via aa.com that this is indeed so.

 

There are some oddities in these results. For example, when forcing QF fares I can see an R class fare that's cheaper than a T class fare - yet T class is the class below R class in QF premium economy. So I personally would still be taking much of this with a pinch of salt.

[Globaliser]

Five additional points to clarify, in the light of Gardyloo's excellent post:-

1. If using the advanced routing codes I've suggested, leave the "Cabin" selector on "Cheapest available".
2. In any part of the advanced routing codes separated by commas, it really doesn't matter which order the items are in. For example, these three are exactly the same:-
   • aa,qf dfw,lax qf,aa / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t
3. qf,aa dfw,lax qf,aa / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t
4. aa,qf lax,dfw qf,aa / f bc=w|bc=r|bc=t

[*]The prices that you get by doing this will be for a single through ticket from ABQ to SYD, so you avoid the risks of using two separate tickets that Gardyloo mentions.[*]In the advanced routing codes above, I've specified W, R and T because they are the three booking classes used by QF for premium economy. On AA, though, apart from W I don't know whether AA has yet specified any other booking classes for premium economy.[*]As always, treat the ITA returns as indicators of what to search for on sites that could actually (a) give you properly reliable quotes; and (b) book you a ticket.

[Alaskanb]

90 mins on an international connection in DFW is cutting it fine--we have been in long long lines when multiple international flights arrive at one time. Global entry definitely cuts the time significantly.

I tend to keep it simple and use the airline I'm planning to travel on for my searches. Our flights on Air NZ from LAX to Auckland and Sydney to LAX --including the return in Premium Economy were about $1800 pp. We used points from El Paso to LAX on AA and then paid for the return on Southwest. It meant overnights near LAX but we enjoyed those. No problems with switching airlines in LA.

Have you looked at doing something similar?

Edited May 23, 2016 by Alaskanb

[NoWhiners]

Gardyloo and Globaliser

 

I'm not going to quote your messages, just to keep this short and readable, but thank you both very much. I actually understood both answers and will use all your suggestions when I do my next search (not until tomorrow night at the soonest, I am playing golf tomorrow :) )

 

I will go back to ITA using the codes Globaliser provided (very helpful, and I even understood them!). And I am glad to understand why the prices are so high.

 

Would I be better off going to the airline sites and building my own itinerary, so I can specify cabin for each leg? I assume I can do this without getting separate tickets? Globaliser seemed to indicate this was the approach if I used his advanced codes in ITA but that isn't for booking. I am a little concerned about the separate ticket/risk, as Gardyloo noted.

 

Also, I forgot to say DH got the AA credit card (Premium). We will use it to book our tickets but I'm not sure what the advantages are for this trip, if any. Any hints?

 

Thank you again

ML

[NoWhiners]

90 mins on an international connection in DFW is cutting it fine--we have been in long long lines when multiple international flights arrive at one time. Global entry definitely cuts the time significantly.

I tend to keep it simple and use the airline I'm planning to travel on for my searches. Our flights on Air NZ from LAX to Auckland and Sydney to LAX --including the return in Premium Economy were about $1800 pp. We used points from El Paso to LAX on AA and then paid for the return on Southwest. It meant overnights near LAX but we enjoyed those. No problems with switching airlines in LA.

Have you looked at doing something similar?

 

Alaskanb

 

Yes, this is a good approach but our circumstances are a bit different. We will already be gone 32--35 days, so we want to avoid an overnight before we fly to SYD. And we are paying for the flights, no points. I may look at GE but I am reluctant.

 

Good thoughts and thank you for your suggestions. Nothing is out at this point!

 

ML

[Globaliser]

Would I be better off going to the airline sites and building my own itinerary, so I can specify cabin for each leg? I assume I can do this without getting separate tickets? Globaliser seemed to indicate this was the approach if I used his advanced codes in ITA but that isn't for booking. I am a little concerned about the separate ticket/risk, as Gardyloo noted.

If you select flights under the premium economy column on the AA website, getting the correct cabins ought to happen automatically.

 

For example, one of the cheapest itineraries that ITA returned for your dates was to depart ABQ at 0635, fly via DFW and arrive SYD at 0605 (ignores date changes for the moment); and then depart SYD at 0950, fly via LAX and arrive ABQ at 1951.

 

If you go to aa.com and search for a round-trip ABQ to SYD and back, you will see a premium economy column for each of the outbound and inbound halves. Each option has a pair of flights. If you select the corresponding pairs of flights to the ITA quote, you should get a price that's identical or very close to ITA's price. You should see that the long-hauls are booked into W class - and although that's described as "Economy" when you call up the full trip details, you did originally select the flights from the premium economy column so they should be premium economy seats. However, that's the one thing that I would personally want some more clarity about before actually booking.

 

So if you ultimately book a round-trip on the airline's website like this, you shouldn't have to worry about ending up with separate tickets. And if you have trouble getting the exact flights that you want on the airline's website, you always have the option of phoning the airline to book it.

 

It is worth playing with ITA and the airline's website for a little while to see how this all fits together. But if you do this for the purposes of learning how it works, I would use different dates so that you are not accidentally interfering with the airlines' inventory on the dates that you actually want.

[waterbug123]

Hi Gardyloo

 

Still can't decide about GE, benefits are good when it works but it seems to not always work, espeically for earl morning flights, which we often take.

 

 

It sounds like maybe you are confusing GE with security PreCheck. ???

 

While you get PreCheck as an added bonus with GE, the actual GE benefits have nothing to do with departures but rather, it gives you an expedited process for clearing immigration and customs upon arrival back into the US.

[NoWhiners]

Well, I am back after a day of searching thru flights.

 

Thanks Gardyloo and Globaliser--using your tips, I was able to get the cost down, as Globaliser noted. I am going to check the cruise line carrier and see what they have on offer as a comparison.

 

This progress has beget (begat? :)) another question, which may be beyond anyone's ability to answer. For some reason, I think I should be able to book the flights I want (either DFW or LAX, but PE) for around $2K per person. Do you think this is a mistaken illusion on my part? I subscribe to the "find a fare you think is good, and buy, then don't look back" philosophy and I think $3500 is still a bit higher than I could get it for. Anyone have any thoughts on this part? I know no one can predict with any certainty but if my $2k number is way out of whack or will require a nail-biting wait until the last second, I'd love to hear that!

 

Thanks everyone for all the help, especially Gardyloo and Globaliser

ML

[NoWhiners]

Update--I did go to the AA site to look at fares and I see Gardyloo's point about 2 separate vs 1 RT through tix. I would think their software could do better but I guess I will go look at separate flights. I'm still not getting the prices you guys got but at least I have a benchmark.

 

Update to update--tried a ticket from ABQ to DFW, in coach on Mar 9, it came back with $225 pp. Then I did the DFW to SYD RT, got $4293--more than the previous RT out of ABQ. I can't figure this out...Maybe I should try Qantas' site?

 

Cheapest I have found, on ITA but not AA, is $3500. AA is showing the same flights I picked in ITA as $4278, maybe due to the cabin discrepancy?

 

ML

Edited May 25, 2016 by NoWhiners

[NoWhiners]

Eureka--I finally broke the code. Went to Qantas site, entered flights and got $3070 pp RT. Almost the same as Gardyloo, I am feeling quite proud of myself right now :)

 

Lot of balls to juggle to do this but I think I am making progress.

 

One more stop at Air2Sea and phase 1 of research will be complete!

 

ML

[FlyerTalker]

Remember, what the cruiseline offers you may or may not have the same underlying fare rules, even if they are on the same flights. This usually has little bearing (FF earning aside) when operations are normal. However, when you enter an irregular operations condition (weather, mechanical, etc), the fare rules may be of critical importance.

 

And if you hear the words "well, they're the same flights" know that doesn't mean that you have the same tickets.

 

In other words, know that you may not be comparing apples with apples.

[NoWhiners]

Remember, what the cruiseline offers you may or may not have the same underlying fare rules, even if they are on the same flights. This usually has little bearing (FF earning aside) when operations are normal. However, when you enter an irregular operations condition (weather, mechanical, etc), the fare rules may be of critical importance.

 

And if you hear the words "well, they're the same flights" know that doesn't mean that you have the same tickets.

 

In other words, know that you may not be comparing apples with apples.

 

Thank you for this warning. This is the first time we are even considering cruise line air. Can you provide a link or something so I can educate myself on this? I don't want you to do a lot of extra work but if you have info handy, could you share it?

 

Thanks

ML

[waterbug123]

Thank you for this warning. This is the first time we are even considering cruise line air. Can you provide a link or something so I can educate myself on this? I don't want you to do a lot of extra work but if you have info handy, could you share it?

 

Thanks

ML

 

There's a sticky at the top of this page with loads of information.

[NoWhiners]

There's a sticky at the top of this page with loads of information.

 

That was an interesting thread, thanks. It has now been about 18 months since anyone posted there. I wonder if anything has changed in that time?

 

ML

[smwg]

I just wanted to say, I know you are looking for PE, so was I for the same destinations. I just thought I would share what I ended with. My DH and I are flying March 12th LAX-AKL-SYD. My husband was not a fan of paying a bunch more for PE and I was not a fan of sitting in the middle seat of economy with a stranger on my left. I finally was able to get us economy seats on Air NZ on the exit row! Two seats by themselves. No one to recline back on us! No one to sit on my left. I know we can't lie down and there will probably be some "standers" in our area, but this was a great compromise for us and our RT ticket cost us less than $2500 for two people (total!). Just thought I would share, in case this might be an option for you. Good luck on your search!

[NoWhiners]

I just wanted to say, I know you are looking for PE, so was I for the same destinations. I just thought I would share what I ended with. My DH and I are flying March 12th LAX-AKL-SYD. My husband was not a fan of paying a bunch more for PE and I was not a fan of sitting in the middle seat of economy with a stranger on my left. I finally was able to get us economy seats on Air NZ on the exit row! Two seats by themselves. No one to recline back on us! No one to sit on my left. I know we can't lie down and there will probably be some "standers" in our area, but this was a great compromise for us and our RT ticket cost us less than $2500 for two people (total!). Just thought I would share, in case this might be an option for you. Good luck on your search!

 

smwg

 

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out but I dread such a long flight in economy. The savings are very nice though.

 

Thanks again. Enjoy your trip and cruise

ML

[iancal]

The last time we used Matrix IT to identify a flight, a routing, a fare code, at a specific price point it took us some time to actually find a vendor who would provide the identical product an the identical price.

 

The first place we went was the airlines web site. No joy. Called the airline (AC) and spoke to a CSR. No joy. The airline had the seats, the routings, the fare code, but the price was $1500 in their inventory instead of the $1025. on Matrix IT. Checked with the connecting Star Alliance airline (ANA). Same story, no joy.

 

Then went to several on line sites that we really do not like very much. Expedia, Travelocity, and another. Again, no joy.

 

Finally dialed the route up on Orbitz. Surprise, they had the same flight, the same routing, the same fare codes, at the same price noted on Matrix IT. The others ranged from $1290-1500. for the identical product. We pressed the buy button immediately after selecting our seats.

 

And the kicker. Our ticket was issued by, and our credit card charged by, the airline that we called and were told the price would be $1500. Go figure.

Edited May 31, 2016 by iancal

[Alaskanb]

The last time we used Matrix IT to identify a flight, a routing, a fare code, at a specific price point it took us some time to actually find a vendor who would provide the identical product an the identical price.

 

The first place we went was the airlines web site. No joy. Called the airline (AC) and spoke to a CSR. No joy. The airline had the seats, the routings, the fare code, but the price was $1500 in their inventory instead of the $1025. on Matrix IT. Checked with the connecting Star Alliance airline (ANA). Same story, no joy.

 

Then went to several on line sites that we really do not like very much. Expedia, Travelocity, and another. Again, no joy.

 

Finally dialed the route up on Orbitz. Surprise, they had the same flight, the same routing, the same fare codes, at the same price noted on Matrix IT. The others ranged from $1290-1500. for the identical product. We pressed the buy button immediately after selecting our seats.

 

And the kicker. Our ticket was issued by, and our credit card charged by, the airline that we called and were told the price would be $1500. Go figure.

 

Do the Matrix prices include all taxes and fees?