Specialty dining tipping and auto gratuity- time for a change?

[MrYellowDuck]

I wish that the gratuities would be a service charge that is non-removable.

 

I live in a country where it is abnormal to tip. The tips if you like are already baked into prices.

 

There is a problem though and this is that service is variable and typically not very good compared to what I've experienced in the US. Having no skin in the game seems to change behaviours.

 

This is seen on cruises too. If you're a New Zealand or Australian resident then several cruise lines running ships out of New Zealand and Australia have given up trying to get tips paid. All that happens if they try is there's a long queue to turn these off and little extra is passed on in cash. Cruise fares in these countries are much more expensive than in the US and so in a sense the same amount of money has been paid.

 

Unfortunately service on these cruises is bad compared to what you get when tips are being paid.

 

So, for example if you book a Princess cruise operating from Australia then nobody from NZ or OZ is paying a daily gratuity. Whereas someone from the US will be paying.

 

P&O Australia is the worst for this type of experience. Nobody is paying a daily gratuity and very few staff will be doing the best that they can.

 

My preference is to not have gratuities baked into prices since my experience of human nature with cruise staff is that service standards change when they know they're not going to get something extra is they give the best possible service.

 

My preference is also to be on a cruise as full as possible with people who expect to pay gratuities so that there's plenty of skin in the game for staff. So, a ship full of Americans in preference to one full of Australians suites us perfectly.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

By the way, to the person who said they don't pay U.S. wages, the minimum wage for waiters, and bartenders is $2.10 in the U.S. Their taxes are based on 15% of their total dinner or bar checks. So much for a living wage without tips.

 

As of Jan 2016.......Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees in the US...by state. Interesting to see how it varies by state.

 

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Edited June 19, 2016 by suzyluvs2cruise

[Panda3]

Who are you again?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Please queue up for the loo and take tea and eat biscuits and eat pudding. call your mum and watch telly.

 

Go team America!

[Thetrail]

I know, I know. Another thread about gratuities. :) I am relatively new to cruising (about to go on my third rcl cruise), and have really been intrigued by the whole cruise line auto gratuities culture, especially in light of the rise of specialty dining. I definitely think that the whole way cruise fares are structured with "gratuities" as a separate charge is a very deliberate strategy on the part of cruise lines to reduce the advertised cruise fare by adding this fee in later... But is it time for a change?

 

On my last cruise I did not eat at the MDR or windjammer at all. I felt like I was double tipping by paying auto gratuities plus tipping at the end of my restaurant meals. I did tip my room attendant extra at the end of one cruise because I really thought he was excellent. The other one was just ok so I didn't tip him extra.

 

Rcl claims that the auto gratuities are for your room attendant and MDR staff, so is it time to change this entire tipping structure? Why not lump specialty restaurant gratuities in with the others, or get rid of auto gratuities and have them all be on a per meal basis? Let's face it, rcl doesn't care that with the rise of specialty restaurants we are tipping and then tipping again.. They are very aware of how they are changing dining on their ships for a profit. I think they are also manipulating many cruise goers into chastising each other for adjusting gratuities when they don't feel they are justified... After all, the term being used is gratuities, not service charge or cruising fee, etc. That doesn't seem like a mandatory charge to me.

 

Why can't we just tip like we do at any restaurant,.. Sure some people are cheap and don't tip well, but that happens everywhere. Why should cruise lines need a different system to prevent this? Am I off the mark on this?

 

I'm eager for a debate, please be respectful!

Your right about one thing......ANOTHER TIPPING THREAD!!!:rolleyes:This has been beat to death and actually getting very old, do you have something else maybe that you can discuss that is not the same old crapola?.....K.O....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Thetrail]

I hear ya.. I was hoping to add a new perspective in light of how specialty dining is changing the dynamics...

But your NEW perspective is the same old crap and it's very boring....K.O.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[troykahack]

The most annoying & repetitious threads are those dealing with this topic and access to top tier lounges.

 

I couldn't agree more. More Tips and Status post, just what we need.

[iluvcruzin]

Your right about one thing......ANOTHER TIPPING THREAD!!!:rolleyes:This has been beat to death and actually getting very old, do you have something else maybe that you can discuss that is not the same old crapola?.....K.O....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

What I find annoying is posters who fail to remember that some people are fairly new to the cruise board or the topic. Expecting someone to do a search first for every question seems overkill.

 

People post questions asking for answers or input. If you don't have anything to contribute other than stating its annoyance, keep in mind your post is just as annoying and even more so. It adds no value to the topic at hand.

[SheehanDJ]

Stuff that I know:

 

- The crew loves the way tips are done now as opposed to envelopes of cash because a significant percent of passengers didn't hand out envelopes and even those who did not all of them had cash in them, some had a thank you note.

 

- Cash tip sharing is bar dependent, some bars equally share everything, some you keep what you get. Everyone kicks up a bit to the bar manager though because he/she is behind the scenes keeping the bar stocked so they can make their tips. A common exception is last day cash tipping that stays with who you give it to.

 

- Drink packages are popular with less popular bars and those that work in them and unpopular in popular bars and those that work in them. The grat's on packages are shared with all bar staff across the ship. There are rumors that this is suppose to change and they will be split according to where the card is swiped. Popular bars and staff are still not thrilled because they are only making money on 6 - 7 drinks a day when there are folks that are drinking a lot more than that.

 

- You make A LOT more money on US based cruise ships, but it is earned. Those of us from the states are considered to complain a lot about minor things, we are free with the cash though.

 

- Auto gratuities ARE held back by the cruise line if there is a performance issue, but you always eventually get your tips. Either on your last check when you are fired or on the following check after you complete your performance improvement plan. Interesting note on this, most folks put on a performance improvement plan are put on because of co-worker complaints not cruising customer complaints.

 

Source: Bar and wait staff across different ships and years.

[land lover]

I know, I know. Another thread about gratuities. :) I am relatively new to cruising (about to go on my third rcl cruise), and have really been intrigued by the whole cruise line auto gratuities culture, especially in light of the rise of specialty dining. I definitely think that the whole way cruise fares are structured with "gratuities" as a separate charge is a very deliberate strategy on the part of cruise lines to reduce the advertised cruise fare by adding this fee in later... But is it time for a change?

 

On my last cruise I did not eat at the MDR or windjammer at all. I felt like I was double tipping by paying auto gratuities plus tipping at the end of my restaurant meals. I did tip my room attendant extra at the end of one cruise because I really thought he was excellent. The other one was just ok so I didn't tip him extra.

 

Rcl claims that the auto gratuities are for your room attendant and MDR staff, so is it time to change this entire tipping structure? Why not lump specialty restaurant gratuities in with the others, or get rid of auto gratuities and have them all be on a per meal basis? Let's face it, rcl doesn't care that with the rise of specialty restaurants we are tipping and then tipping again.. They are very aware of how they are changing dining on their ships for a profit. I think they are also manipulating many cruise goers into chastising each other for adjusting gratuities when they don't feel they are justified... After all, the term being used is gratuities, not service charge or cruising fee, etc. That doesn't seem like a mandatory charge to me.

 

Why can't we just tip like we do at any restaurant,.. Sure some people are cheap and don't tip well, but that happens everywhere. Why should cruise lines need a different system to prevent this? Am I off the mark on this?

 

I'm eager for a debate, please be respectful!

 

 

OP. as you said u r new to cruising...why try to change it..the program is the way it is...because it has been adjusted through the years, like everything else. I'm no expert...but my first cruise was 1983...I was a mere babe....;)

 

No one was forcing me to tip extra then or now they have just made it more convenient for me.

[land lover]

Stuff that I know:

 

- The crew loves the way tips are done now as opposed to envelopes of cash because a significant percent of passengers didn't hand out envelopes and even those who did not all of them had cash in them, some had a thank you note.

 

- Cash tip sharing is bar dependent, some bars equally share everything, some you keep what you get. Everyone kicks up a bit to the bar manager though because he/she is behind the scenes keeping the bar stocked so they can make their tips. A common exception is last day cash tipping that stays with who you give it to.

 

- Drink packages are popular with less popular bars and those that work in them and unpopular in popular bars and those that work in them. The grat's on packages are shared with all bar staff across the ship. There are rumors that this is suppose to change and they will be split according to where the card is swiped. Popular bars and staff are still not thrilled because they are only making money on 6 - 7 drinks a day when there are folks that are drinking a lot more than that.

 

- You make A LOT more money on US based cruise ships, but it is earned. Those of us from the states are considered to complain a lot about minor things, we are free with the cash though.

 

- Auto gratuities ARE held back by the cruise line if there is a performance issue, but you always eventually get your tips. Either on your last check when you are fired or on the following check after you complete your performance improvement plan. Interesting note on this, most folks put on a performance improvement plan are put on because of co-worker complaints not cruising customer complaints.

 

Source: Bar and wait staff across different ships and years.

 

Interesting........I guess it was worth reading 2 posts on this thread.

 

I will add in the last couple of years i have had more than one crew member tell me they have worked in the states and they make much more money on the ship, with no taxes.

[CapeCodCruiser]

ad nauseam

 

Tipping, overworked, slave wages, shakedowns, firings, pricing schemes - whatever!

 

They are what they are and they are a part of the cost of going on a cruise.

 

I am there for vacation & relaxation - not to worry if my room steward is underpaid & overworked or if the waiter really gets his share of my tip or if they really deserve it....

 

The cruise ship employees are there voluntarily - they signed a contract, they are not indentured servants and what they earn is really no concern of mine.

 

Do you tip the person at Burger King because they are making only minimum wage and have a family to support? Or the maid in your hotel or the waitress at your local restaurant - do you discuss ad nauseam whether she makes a living wage?

 

Do you shop at Big Box stores and let family owned businesses die?

 

For all of the people here who "champion" the poor cruise ship employees endlessly, does it make you feel better about yourselves or what? I do not get it. Perhaps it helps relieve your first world guilt - if you really took an honest look at it.

 

I pay my tips and tip extra as I see fit. I treat them with respect & dignity and do not assume they are all poor workers being taken advantage of by the big bad cruise industry.

 

Flame away!

[Thetrail]

I think it's safe to assume most waiting staff are tax dodgers

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Simply amazing and disgusting at the same time...K.O.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Thetrail]

What I find annoying is posters who fail to remember that some people are fairly new to the cruise board or the topic. Expecting someone to do a search first for every question seems overkill.

 

People post questions asking for answers or input. If you don't have anything to contribute other than stating its annoyance, keep in mind your post is just as annoying and even more so. It adds no value to the topic at hand.

Apparently the OP did know it was an OLD, BORING, topic but decided to bore us some more!......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[JohnSnowGOT]

ad nauseam

 

Tipping, overworked, slave wages, shakedowns, firings, pricing schemes - whatever!

 

They are what they are and they are a part of the cost of going on a cruise.

 

I am there for vacation & relaxation - not to worry if my room steward is underpaid & overworked or if the waiter really gets his share of my tip or if they really deserve it....

 

The cruise ship employees are there voluntarily - they signed a contract, they are not indentured servants and what they earn is really no concern of mine.

 

Do you tip the person at Burger King because they are making only minimum wage and have a family to support? Or the maid in your hotel or the waitress at your local restaurant - do you discuss ad nauseam whether she makes a living wage?

 

Do you shop at Big Box stores and let family owned businesses die?

 

For all of the people here who "champion" the poor cruise ship employees endlessly, does it make you feel better about yourselves or what? I do not get it. Perhaps it helps relieve your first world guilt - if you really took an honest look at it.

 

I pay my tips and tip extra as I see fit. I treat them with respect & dignity and do not assume they are all poor workers being taken advantage of by the big bad cruise industry.

 

Flame away!

 

I Totally agree.

Nobody is worried about my salary!!!

And how arrogant it is to assume those "poor and over worked cruise workers" are so desperate that they need you to worry about their career choice and wages.

I say pay the required gratuities, tip extra of you want and then worry about you and yours and enjoy your vacation.

[Havingfun2010]

Tipping? Service Charge? Slave wages? Under paid? Over paid? Cruise line stealing the money? Conspiracy? Did I leave out anything else?

 

When you walk across the gangway onto that ship, you are entering another country. Yes, it's parked in the USA, or Europe, or Asia or South America or down under someplace, but it is another world. The employees on that ship come from all over the world. Some of them, the pay on the ship is like winning the jack pot lottery. Maybe for others, it's just a living wage. Others do it for the adventure. Many others do it so they can buy a house, car, etc and use cash to pay for it.

 

The discussion always wraps around what we, as people in the USA perceive as fair and just pay. But yet, we have no problem going to McDonalds for dinner or some other fast food place where the employees are trampled on, and work for the lowest wages.

 

When you go to another country, do you ask them what their labor laws are? How much they make. Are they working in an environment that you think is acceptable? Most likely not.

 

I don't care what they make. I doubt the cruise line takes their money. Why would they? The auto tips, are prepaid by me. It's part of the trip. They pay they receive, the tips, they receive, the staterooms they are assigned, the menu in their buffet, how long their contract is, are they happy, sad, miss family etc are not of my concern. It's not my business. I know I would not want their job. But I also don't want to work at WalMart, or McDonalds either. I will still go to those places, except McDonalds unless I'm desperate.

 

So tip extra if you want. Don't if you feel it was enough. I wish tips were all inclusive, so I don't need to continue to read about this!

[troykahack]

Apparently the OP did know it was an OLD, BORING, topic but decided to bore us some more!......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Old and boring to those with their status. Not to newbies.

 

So old and boring that you posted twice. Nobody forced you to read it.

 

I love the attitute of so many with Status. Makes for good reading. Can't wait for another C&A rumor.

[marci22]

I know, I know. Another thread about gratuities. :) I am relatively new to cruising (about to go on my third rcl cruise), and have really been intrigued by the whole cruise line auto gratuities culture, especially in light of the rise of specialty dining. I definitely think that the whole way cruise fares are structured with "gratuities" as a separate charge is a very deliberate strategy on the part of cruise lines to reduce the advertised cruise fare by adding this fee in later... But is it time for a change?

 

On my last cruise I did not eat at the MDR or windjammer at all. I felt like I was double tipping by paying auto gratuities plus tipping at the end of my restaurant meals. I did tip my room attendant extra at the end of one cruise because I really thought he was excellent. The other one was just ok so I didn't tip him extra.

 

Rcl claims that the auto gratuities are for your room attendant and MDR staff, so is it time to change this entire tipping structure? Why not lump specialty restaurant gratuities in with the others, or get rid of auto gratuities and have them all be on a per meal basis? Let's face it, rcl doesn't care that with the rise of specialty restaurants we are tipping and then tipping again.. They are very aware of how they are changing dining on their ships for a profit. I think they are also manipulating many cruise goers into chastising each other for adjusting gratuities when they don't feel they are justified... After all, the term being used is gratuities, not service charge or cruising fee, etc. That doesn't seem like a mandatory charge to me.

 

Why can't we just tip like we do at any restaurant,.. Sure some people are cheap and don't tip well, but that happens everywhere. Why should cruise lines need a different system to prevent this? Am I off the mark on this?

 

I don't think you are off the mark at all. I was wondering the same thing when specialty restaurants started becoming more prevalent.

 

In the 'old days', your suggested gratuities went to designated people: waiter, asst waiter, head waiter, and cabin steward. The amounts each person got were specified.

 

Then the terms started morphing: the tips also paid for 'behind the scenes people', someone mentioned the person who peels the carrots. Now the cruiselines say the grats pay for 'dining and culinary service'. The room steward gets a certain amount, but another amount goes to 'housekeeping services'.

 

This is not tipping.

 

I recently asked what I should do if we were going to eat at CK each night instead of MDR. A couple of answers, both recommending that I pay auto grats, and then tip the CK servers again. I don't agree with that. On another recent post, I read that CK servers share the auto grats, which seems reasonable.

 

If I was going to eat at specialty every night, I think I would remove auto grats and tip at the individual locations. I'm sure the 'behind the scenes people will still get paid', as it's Royal's job to make sure they do.

 

I'm sure the cruiseline loves it when other cruisers admonish people to pay the auto grats, and tip generously in addition. It's free money. The stock price is great, the execs make millions, they're building new ships; I think everyone is getting paid even if people don't tip twice.

[LovesCruising]

Here is something I have always thought about - first let me say we do not remove our grats and we prepay them in advance. Many times we tip extra and always tip addl in specialty restaurants. Thats our choice. Having said that - I am reading if one removes their auto tips, and chooses to tip their staff in cash - the staff must turn the money in to be pooled. OK - so say you give your cabin steward $150 in cash - whats to stop him/her from putting $50 in his pocket and turning in $100 to pool? How would anyone know?

[EntropyGuardian]

Here is something I have always thought about - first let me say we do not remove our grats and we prepay them in advance. Many times we tip extra and always tip addl in specialty restaurants. Thats our choice. Having said that - I am reading if one removes their auto tips, and chooses to tip their staff in cash - the staff must turn the money in to be pooled. OK - so say you give your cabin steward $150 in cash - whats to stop him/her from putting $50 in his pocket and turning in $100 to pool? How would anyone know?

 

God would know.

[chandom]

Here is something I have always thought about - first let me say we do not remove our grats and we prepay them in advance. Many times we tip extra and always tip addl in specialty restaurants. Thats our choice. Having said that - I am reading if one removes their auto tips, and chooses to tip their staff in cash - the staff must turn the money in to be pooled. OK - so say you give your cabin steward $150 in cash - whats to stop him/her from putting $50 in his pocket and turning in $100 to pool? How would anyone know?

What I was told/claimed many many years ago.

 

Auto tip left, overage given: Keep all of the overage, auto pooled.

Auto tip left, no overage: Auto pooled.

Cash only, with overage: Pay in what the auto tip should have been, anything over is kept.

Cash only, no overage: Pay in what the auto tip should have been.

Nothing: Pay in what the auto tip should have been from the overage of others. That way it looks like they had gotten cash.

 

Reasoning:

No tip = poor service (perceived)

Poor service = poor performance

Poor performance (over time) = one way trip back home

 

Once again, this is what was claimed. Could be total BS just to weasel out more $$$ from people.

[BillOh]

I'm eager for a debate, please be respectful!

 

Good luck with that! I do understand your point with regard to specialty dining and knew you would get a few snarky remarks. I do understand your point regarding specialty restaurants. It use to be we were told that that entire see was going to the waiters, whether that is a pool or those actual waiters. I thought it was odd when they started asking additional upcharges for enhanced steak at Chops. Then you are offered the change to tip additional amounts.

[marci22]

What I was told/claimed many many years ago.

 

Auto tip left, overage given: Keep all of the overage, auto pooled.

Auto tip left, no overage: Auto pooled.

Cash only, with overage: Pay in what the auto tip should have been, anything over is kept.

Cash only, no overage: Pay in what the auto tip should have been.

Nothing: Pay in what the auto tip should have been from the overage of others. That way it looks like they had gotten cash.

 

Reasoning:

No tip = poor service (perceived)

Poor service = poor performance

Poor performance (over time) = one way trip back home

 

Once again, this is what was claimed. Could be total BS just to weasel out more $$$ from people.

 

Any speculation about how tips are pooled/not pooled is just that. RC chooses to keep it a mystery. I don't think we need to care.

 

Tips are optional. They suggest amounts. Some people pay up front, others want to tip how they want. People who want to tip how they want are criticized on these boards. Critical posters point out the always struggling behind the scenes people, who may starve or get fired if you tip as you wish.

 

That is why these threads get so heated. People ask a simple question, and you get all kinds of editorializing in return.

 

In summary: there are suggested tipping guidelines. You may pre pay, pay daily via auto grat, or go to GS and remove autograts and do what you want. That is the answer to 90% of tipping threads here.

[LovesCruising]

God would know.

 

too funny:eek:

[MrsPete]

First let me say this. There is no "conspiracy." The cruise lines don't keep tipping to "show a lower cruise price."

I wouldn't use the word "conspiracy", but I do think the cruise line has structured the wait staff's pay to benefit themselves. Under the current system, they aren't directly paying a wage to the staff ... so the staff counts upon the guests to pay their tips. The staff takes a risk that they'll be paid at all.

 

However, it's important to note that other jobs do the same thing. For example, last year I received a bonus instead of a raise. How does this benefit my employer? A bonus is a one-time thing, whereas a raise would boost my pension. My husband has been treated similarly at his work.

 

I was a server for many years, and I chose that over other jobs because I could make more money, faster. I would be making much more than minimum wage. But it is hard work, and there are fewer benefits such as time off, health car

I waited tables when I was younger; yes, it's hard physical labor, but it's one of the easiest jobs I've ever held. A number of my younger co-workers wait tables on the weekend, and I'm surprised at how much they earn. $200-300/evening isn't unusual.

 

Cruise Critic old wives tale.

 

No one is shaking down the crew each day when they get off of shift.

Maybe, maybe not. When I worked for Belks (about 100 years ago), we were only allowed to bring in clear plastic bags for our lunch or other necessities, and we were not allowed to have any cash money in our pockets. And, yes, occasionally the manager'd come along and ask everyone to turn out his or her pockets -- usually on the way out the door at closing time.

 

Of course, we also had "cranks" so that if the electricity went off, we could attach them to the side of the cash registers and continue selling products. Never mind it would've been completely dark, and we wouldn't have been able to see the prices.

 

And though a number of bars and restaurants have something in place with regard to sharing tips, they cannot fire someone for not sharing a tip.

Yeah, if the employer has created a tip-sharing system and the employee has accepted a job and agreed to utilize that system, then, yes, he or she can be fired for failing to follow company procedures.

 

I think it's safe to assume most waiting staff are tax dodgers

Whether they owe taxes to their own home countries, or whether they owe taxes to the country in which their ship is registered, this statement is impossible to prove. It's a stupid comment on several levels.

 

Source: Bar and wait staff across different ships and years.

I can't imagine asking a staff member to tell me how much he's paid, etc.

 

Tips are optional.

But I don't think they shouldn't be optional, and a whole lot of other people agree. People should not be able to accept service all week, then walk away without paying. It's not about "oh, the poor staff" -- it's about fairness.

 

You may argue that bad service doesn't warrant good tips. True, but I personally have never received service on a cruise ship that warranted nothing. Plus, if you're receiving poor service all week, it'd be smarter to complain to the server's supervisor rather than waiting and giving him nothing.