HAL Cutbacks

[chengkp75]

IYO, of course, many of us have different opinion.

 

 

I sailed in penthouse last summer on NCL and was pleasantly surprised at their suite experiencee. It exceedrd my expectations and compared favorably to HAL's.

 

I'm not clear how your comments connect to mine. I was talking about cabin assignments (what cabins various crew are berthed in) for crew, and cabin service for crew, not an experience that a suite passenger would have.

[iancal]

We like HAL. There have been cutbacks on all lines. They are all essentially all subject to the same fuel costs based on forward purchase contracts and efficiencies from new technology. We suspect that HAL is cutting back more than their competitors. Could have something to do with the higher costs involved in operating older ships with fewer customers.

 

What has changed for us in selecting HAL? We no longer consider HAL's older ships. Cutbacks on ship mtce precludes us from considering several of them that are well past their sell by dates. We typically do a verandah. Every time we look at suites HAL comes up as far too expensive for the increase in real estate with few added benefits compared to the competition-Princess, Celebrity, etc.

 

I suspect that HAL is at the start of a major transformation. It may not please their traditional base. It will also take a great deal of change and some effective marketing to transform their image and attract a new generation of cruisers. Not just millennials, but people like us in their early sixties who travel and cruise frequently. People who have no particular loyalty to any travel supplier and could care less about medals, lapel pins, lunches, or cocktail receptions with officers.

[sail7seas]

matbe price does not detoerrmine 'CLASS', BUT IT surely does termines 'cagtegory which in this case isthe factor that particulayrly matters.

Edited June 20, 2016 by sail7seas

[2old4this]

Well, isn't taking a cruise throwing money away?

 

Yes, Rocketman275, and so is the gas used to go for the Sunday drive somewhere. Whether it is a waste, or not, depends on the individual and his needs and desires. I could certainly use the close to $20K I'm spending on a HAL cruise to Hawaii in December on many other things; but I'm not. I need the feel of a ship moving on the sea, the luxury of a grand suite, the banquets fit for a king, and the closeness of my family uninterrupted by school, phones, and other distractions. I need these things and "wasting" my earned money on them for 17 days of life change seems (to me) to be more than appropriate.

[OlsSalt]

Posters here often complain about "cut backs in staff" so my questions was how many "beds" (better than number of cabins) are dedicated to staff -- at all levels - that is non-passenger beds.

 

Within that total number of non-passenger beds, how many are allocated to dining staff, cabin steward staff, etc ......

 

I was told once by a HM that every time they added another onboard employee - speakers, spa treatments, internet actives, art auctions, etc .. that meant one less "bed" available for core functions like dining and cabin stewards.

 

Add one person offering "tooth whitening" and that means one less bed for a dining steward ....... that sort of thing.

So to rephrase my question a little better - any insights how many "beds" are allocated to non-paying passengers.

 

And then following, how does the addition of extra staff activity "bed" need affect the beds that used to be available for core functions like dining and cabins. (Actually the real core functions are the ones we don't see: engineering, navigation and maintenance etc.)

 

Or are their fixed allocations for dining and cabin staffers, and the rest of the supporting onboard activity staffers need to juggle the remaining cabins amongst themselves.

Edited June 20, 2016 by OlsSalt

[sppunk]

This entire debate is rather silly IMO. To one person a change is a cutback, to another it means the focus has shifted to something better.

 

EVERY SINGLE LINE on the seven seas at this very moment has pax complaining about cutbacks. Hell, go take a gander at the Crystal or Azamara or Oceania forums. Those are some of the tip-top lines on earth and you get the same things.

 

Change, or die. That's the business mantra of a hospitality provider. If the change doesn't fit your needs, there is another hospitality provider out there that will be more than happy to take your money.

 

This post can be posted on any cruiseline forum, any hotel brand forum, or any airplane brand forum. It's all the same.

 

IMO the future of HAL is brighter than it's been in LONG time. 15 years or whatever without innovation - they should be happy they are still around.

[sail7seas]

This post really hit home for me. HAL (and other cruise lines) should honor those who are loyal and have spend many many years and their hard earned money cruising with a specific cruise line.[/quote

We feltwell appreciated by HAL and often comments were made about our loyalty and we enjoyed a number of special trreats. Even when not on the hips, HAL found considerate/ thouggttful ways to let us know we were valued. we wereappredciative for that Edited June 20, 2016 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

Posters here often complain about "cut backs in staff" so my questions was how many "beds" (better than number of cabins) are dedicated to staff -- at all levels - that is non-passenger beds.

 

Within that total number of non-passenger beds, how many are allocated to dining staff, cabin steward staff, etc ......

 

I was told once by a HM that every time they added another onboard employee - speakers, spa treatments, internet actives, art auctions, etc .. that meant one less "bed" available for core functions like dining and cabin stewards.

 

Add one person offering "tooth whitening" and that means one less bed for a dining steward ....... that sort of thing.

So to rephrase my question a little better - any insights how many "beds" are allocated to non-paying passengers.

 

And then following, how does the addition of extra staff activity "bed" need affect the beds that used to be available for core functions like dining and cabins. (Actually the real core functions are the ones we don't see: engineering, navigation and maintenance etc.)

 

Or are their fixed allocations for dining and cabin staffers, and the rest of the supporting onboard activity staffers need to juggle the remaining cabins amongst themselves.

 

Okay, gotcha now. I'll make an early disclaimer that this will vary by line somewhat, and it gets a little complicated.

 

While what the HD told you is basically correct, as there are a fixed number of beds, adding people does not always impact other department's berthing. Guest speakers, as well as "headliner" entertainers, and sometimes the art auctioneer, generally are granted "passenger status" and will use passenger cabins, so they don't affect crew berthing at all.

 

Concessions like the spa and gift shop are given a fixed number of berths when they sign the concession, so if the spa wants to add a tooth whitener, they may have to drop someone else from their staff.

 

Internet managers, and things like that are more mid level staff, so they affect the berthing in the single or possibly double cabins, which may affect other supervisors, but not the "front line" waiters and stewards. You would have to add a lot of folks to "support activities", and restructure the "benefits" of various staff supervisors, moving them down a class in cabin, to really affect the front line staff, who tend to be assigned the 4 person cabins.

 

As "perk" conscious as cruisers are, so are the crew, so the only real fixed assignments of cabins is by job position v. cabin type, there really isn't any fixed allotment for stewards or wait staff, but this is a whole Tetris game worked out by HR and Operations ashore with feedback from onboard senior staff about what manpower levels are required, and what berthing is available.

[rafinmd]

OlsSalt, I think if you were to try Crystal again a simple "No thank you" would put an end to undesired service attention; that has always worked for me. I do certainly sympathize with your feeling; on Silversea a lounge steward once told me when I was pouring a cup of coffee essentially "If you want coffee in your room, go back to your room and wait for room service to deliver it". We all have different expectations and there is no reason for you to pay more than HAL while HAL provides the experiences that are important to you. You've at least tested other cruise lines and found what works for you.

 

The 3 lines I am most loyal to are Crystal, Cunard and HAL. Those 3 have rewarded my loyalty with hundreds of days of wonderful experiences and memories, any other "reward" pales by comparison.

 

Roy

[iancal]

New generations, and even our generation, do not have the same sense of loyalties nor are these loyalties as deserving as they were in the past. Changing economy, changing consumer landscape. HAL is well aware of this.

 

People are changing jobs more frequently. Same with the products and services they buy. More emphasis on current offerings/value today than what was offered last time. Years ago you could see the change begin to occur. My parents abandoned their traditional Bell long distance in favour of a third party long distance supplier at a third the cost. They did not even bother with the GM or Ford dealership. After years of these brands they crossed the street to Honda and Toyota. We never even bothered with those traditional brands when we shopped for vehicles. But they have changed so next time we just may. Same with cruises. That is why HAL must and will change. Our generation is much faster to change and insist on full value. Our son's generation faster still. The free bottle of water, so called priority boarding and other zero value items will never incent our son's generation to buy or remain loyal. The benefits must have tangible value.

[Copper10-8]

Okay, gotcha now. I'll make an early disclaimer that this will vary by line somewhat, and it gets a little complicated.

 

While what the HD told you is basically correct, as there are a fixed number of beds, adding people does not always impact other department's berthing. Guest speakers, as well as "headliner" entertainers, and sometimes the art auctioneer, generally are granted "passenger status" and will use passenger cabins, so they don't affect crew berthing at all.

 

Concessions like the spa and gift shop are given a fixed number of berths when they sign the concession, so if the spa wants to add a tooth whitener, they may have to drop someone else from their staff.

 

Internet managers, and things like that are more mid level staff, so they affect the berthing in the single or possibly double cabins, which may affect other supervisors, but not the "front line" waiters and stewards. You would have to add a lot of folks to "support activities", and restructure the "benefits" of various staff supervisors, moving them down a class in cabin, to really affect the front line staff, who tend to be assigned the 4 person cabins.

 

As "perk" conscious as cruisers are, so are the crew, so the only real fixed assignments of cabins is by job position v. cabin type, there really isn't any fixed allotment for stewards or wait staff, but this is a whole Tetris game worked out by HR and Operations ashore with feedback from onboard senior staff about what manpower levels are required, and what berthing is available.

 

Well stated, as usual, Cheng! One addition; male vs female crew ratio. Male crew "rooms" with other male crew and female crew bunks with other female crew unless, of course, by mutual consent of the occupants. i.e. there are married couples working on the same ship at times and onboard relationships develop.

 

On HAL, the 'Crew Officer' is responsible for assigning crew cabins. Those with officer status have a cabin to themselves (no cabin mate); those below bunk up. They attempt to assign crew cabins by Department, i.e. Technical Dept. wipers, machinists, firemen/greasers share cabins, as do the ladies from the Front Office, sailors, quartermasters, dining room stewards, and so on

Edited June 20, 2016 by Copper10-8

[chengkp75]

Well stated, as usual, Cheng! One addition; male vs female crew ratio. Male crew "rooms" with other male crew and female crew bunks with other female crew unless, of course, by mutual consent of the occupants. i.e. there are married couples working on the same ship at times and onboard relationships develop.

 

On HAL, the 'Crew Officer' is responsible for assigning crew cabins. Those with officer status have a cabin to themselves (no cabin mate); those below bunk up. They attempt to assign crew cabins by Department, i.e. Technical Dept. wipers, machinists, firemen/greasers share cabins, as do the ladies from the Front Office, sailors, quartermasters, dining room stewards, and so on

 

Good points, John. Yes, the gender issue can really complicate things. And keeping the same jobs/departments berthed together keeps their working hours similar and their laundry :D requirements similar.

[sail7seas]

OlsSalt, I think if you were to try Crystal again a simple "No thank you" would put an end to undesired service attention; that has always worked for me. I do certainly sympathize with your feeling; on Silversea a lounge steward once told me when I was pouring a cup of coffee essentially "If you want coffee in your room, go back to your room and wait for room service to deliver it". We all have different expectations and there is no reason for you to pay more than HAL while HAL provides the experiences that are important to you. You've at least tested other cruise lines and found what works for you.

 

The 3 lines I am most loyal to are Crystal, Cunard and HAL. Those 3 have rewarded my loyalty with hundreds of days of wonderful experiences and memories, any other "reward" pales by comparison.

 

 

Ve RY well said. Since my DH passsed, among my most cherished memories areuson AHL cruises.Such g ood times we enjoyed. So many wonderful places we visited and such spec ial people we met and became friends

Roy

......

[RocketMan275]

Yes, Rocketman275, and so is the gas used to go for the Sunday drive somewhere. Whether it is a waste, or not, depends on the individual and his needs and desires. I could certainly use the close to $20K I'm spending on a HAL cruise to Hawaii in December on many other things; but I'm not. I need the feel of a ship moving on the sea, the luxury of a grand suite, the banquets fit for a king, and the closeness of my family uninterrupted by school, phones, and other distractions. I need these things and "wasting" my earned money on them for 17 days of life change seems (to me) to be more than appropriate.

 

I replied: "Well, isn't taking a cruise throwing money away?" in response to: "We have no problem paying more to get more, but at some point it starts feeling like we are throwing away money."

 

My intent was pointing out that any money spent on recreation can be seen as "throwing money away" by some even if this "throwing money away" can be seen by others as 'money well spent'. There was no intent to criticize cruising. BTW, we feel money spent on Neptune Suites is "money well spent".

[OlsSalt]

OlsSalt, I think if you were to try Crystal again a simple "No thank you" would put an end to undesired service attention; that has always worked for me. ....

 

Roy

 

Well, of course we said a polite no thank you to the Crystal levels of service when necessary. We did not let this "official" service level intrude on our own travel comfort. But we also chose not to pay extra for it when HAL met our own needs far better. Nor will we reject good offers from Crystal to sail with them again.

[taxmantoo]

......

 

Certainly can't argue with that logic :D

[sail7seas]

Copper, . On HAL ships, what ;position oFficer is 'crewOfficer?

Staff Captain?

Edited June 20, 2016 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

Copper, . On HAL ships, what ;position oFficer is 'crewOfficer?

Staff Captain?

 

The Staff Captain has far too much to do to assign crew cabins. All the ships have some form of Personnel department onboard, who take care of assigning cabins, making crew ID cards, maintaining the passports, and all other general HR tasks. Some ships will have an HR manager that these personnel clerks report to. Not sure which position that HAL calls their Crew Officer. Personnel are generally 1.5 or 2 stripe, and the HR manager is 3 stripe.

[cvpends]

One person's cutback is another's improvement. For example, as someone who does not appreciate Baked Alaska, I am happy not to have that ol' parade, and like the dessert options that are available in its stead just fine. Also, as a lacto-ovo-pesco vegetarian, I am perfectly happy with what I consider to be greatly improved menus, without all the meat-intensive offerings.

 

This said, one cut I abhor is the reported removal of my beloved Eggs Benedict station on the Lido. The Eggs Benedict options are a serious quality-of-life issue for me. I can't say that I won't cruise HAL anymore if they are truly gone, but I will be horribly disappointed. I have heard that two options are still available, but no one has told me whether they are freshly made, or come out on a giant pre-made heat-lamped tray as other (previously lesser) cruise lines tend to do. I will find out for myself in 14 days -- and my excitement for my upcoming cruise on Maasdam is diminished by this worry.

[OlsSalt]

One person's cutback is another's improvement. For example, as someone who does not appreciate Baked Alaska, I am happy not to have that ol' parade, and like the dessert options that are available in its stead just fine. Also, as a lacto-ovo-pesco vegetarian, I am perfectly happy with what I consider to be greatly improved menus, without all the meat-intensive offerings.

 

This said, one cut I abhor is the reported removal of my beloved Eggs Benedict station on the Lido. The Eggs Benedict options are a serious quality-of-life issue for me. I can't say that I won't cruise HAL anymore if they are truly gone, but I will be horribly disappointed. I have heard that two options are still available, but no one has told me whether they are freshly made, or come out on a giant pre-made heat-lamped tray as other (previously lesser) cruise lines tend to do. I will find out for myself in 14 days -- and my excitement for my upcoming cruise on Maasdam is diminished by this worry.

 

The eggs benedicts on our recent Zuiderdam, be that as they may, are still "freshly made" - eggs cooked and sauce poured over. DH's complaint was they used regular bacon, and not canadian bacon.

 

But I think he said even the english muffins were still toasted. But maybe not buttered. Call it a work in progress and see what you can still do to get close to what you want. Or bail out like me and try the fresh crepes with butter, sugar and lemon instead. Ovo-lacto okay. Yum.

[Heartgrove]

One person's cutback is another's improvement.

 

This said, one cut I abhor is the reported removal of my beloved Eggs Benedict station on the Lido. The Eggs Benedict options are a serious quality-of-life issue for me. I can't say that I won't cruise HAL anymore if they are truly gone, but I will be horribly disappointed. I have heard that two options are still available, but no one has told me whether they are freshly made, or come out on a giant pre-made heat-lamped tray as other (previously lesser) cruise lines tend to do. I will find out for myself in 14 days -- and my excitement for my upcoming cruise on Maasdam is diminished by this worry.

 

I too, enjoy Eggs Benedict. I only ate breakfast in the Lido once on our cruise to Alaska last month. However I did enjoy them, as a perk of a NS, in The Pinnacle.

 

But I did have the Eggs Benedict offered in the Lido the one morning. A bit disappointing in that the eggs had been simmering for a while in the water. My cruise on the Veendam last Fall the cook made two fresh egss for me.

[tjcox9]

Did I need a cappuccino maker in my suite ( no)when in the Neptune lounge just feet away is a state of the art maker?

 

Just off the Oosterdam and was in one of the redone suites.......it's not a cappuccino maker. It's a MoCoffee machine (not available retail as far as I can tell) that makes much better espresso than is available in the Neptune Lounge in our opinion.

 

Kind of wish it had been a cappuccino machine as well since the machine in the lounge wasn't working properly. ;)

[Retired 07]

Funny, I thought the same thing!

 

Anyway, I have a theory here and hopefully I won't get blasted for sharing it. It's just a theory.

 

Maybe what some see as cutbacks are actually just changes, as in "everything changes". If HAL never mixed up their service offerings, there would undoubtedly be complaints about that. So maybe they've gotten feedback that two suite parties is too much, so they drop to one. Some people see it as a cutback, others are glad not to be invited to too many events.

 

Another theory I have is that, no matter what a cruise line does, frequent cruisers will inevitably become disillusioned and disappointed. The same treatment that tickles our fancy on our first cruise and makes us think, "Wow, they're really going above any beyond!" becomes the expected, standard norm. So even if things are exactly as magical on the second cruise as they were on the first, our expectations have now been raised and we're no longer wowed like we were previously.

 

Again, I'm not arguing these points, just raising them as theories. What do the rest of you think?

 

I totally agree with you. I am seeing "changes" here. Not necessarily cutbacks. Changes can be refreshing. I have been on a number of Princess cruises, and if you take away the ports, they all seemed the same. I am looking forward to my Koningsdam cruise next year with all the "changes".

[gpb11]

The eggs benedicts on our recent Zuiderdam, be that as they may, are still "freshly made" - eggs cooked and sauce poured over. DH's complaint was they used regular bacon, and not canadian bacon.

 

Mine had canadian bacon three weeks ago on Noordam. Mine had canadian bacon three weeks ago on Noordam. Maybe a temporary supply matter?

[OlsSalt]

Mine had canadian bacon three weeks ago on Noordam. Mine had canadian bacon three weeks ago on Noordam. Maybe a temporary supply matter?

 

Could be. They also ran out of the large San Pellegrino bottled water and had to pass off tiny single serving bottles of Perrier. Zut alors. C'est ne pas la meme chose!