Cruise lines - any duty of care - shore excursions??

[Cyrix400]

In light of the tragic events in Vanuatu (bus crash on cruise-line shore excursion, many seriously injured - see separate link) - what has been your experience re safety when taking tours in places with limited local infrastructure ? (e.g. South Pacific etc?)

 

What do you think should be the level of responsibility taken by the cruise line (through their agents) providing excursions?

 

As a minimum, do you think that the cruise line should satisfy itself (or get the undertaking to this effect from the co-ordinating agents) that the buses are safe (no bold tires, mechanically sound) and that tour buses drivers have the appropriate skills and responsibility to drive them (no dangerous speeding etc) ??

[icat2000]

Was it a cruiseline organised tour or passengers from a cruiseline on a tour in Vanuatu.

 

If it was a cruiseline organised paying tour then you would hope they have done some due diligence and check out the credentials of the tour organisers, including that drivers and guides are suitability qualified having licenses etc. Princess, you would hope would undertake regular audits, checkups as part of their risk management strategies. Would the cruise line public liability insurance come into play here?

 

Maybe these are questions you should be asking direct with PO Australia.

[Cyrix400]

I've started this thread to seek more general views/ experiences of people who have taken cruiseline organised tours by VARIOUS cruise lines, not specifically P&O.

 

Another words, if anyone has taken a cruiseline shore excursions (with their up to 300% mark up, no doubt) - did you experienced any unsafe bus drivers or noticed the tour buses which did not look visually safe (worn tires, rust etc).

[icat2000]

What purpose do you want to know this information? Are you using this forum as research bait?

Edited June 21, 2016 by icat2000

[peter.kath@hotmail.com]

I guess when something unfortunate like this happens we all start to ask these questions.

We like lots of people choose to organise our own transport in ports mainly due to costs. I have never thought to ask a driver if they have a license or insurance.

It is reassuring to see that P & O seem to being doing the right thing in arranging transport for those injured I hope their travel insurance covers the costs.

[Cyrix400]

What purpose do you want to know this information? Are you using this forum as research bait?

Definitely NOT any research - just throwing it open to those many very experienced cruisers to see what comes out - and what I (and perhaps some others with a few cruisers behind them) can learn from it.

[OzKiwiJJ]

I would certainly hope that a cruise line would organise decent quality transportation for its expensively-priced excursions, and that has been the case for the few that I have done so far.

 

However it may be a different matter with things like shuttle buses, especially in smaller places like Vanuatu. When we stopped at Mare on a RCI cruise it appeared that every available mode of transport - from nice buses to the local (very uncomfortable) school buses, people movers and cars, were pressed into use to shuttle passengers from the wharf to the lagoon.

[Tigerlily75]

They do make sure safety issues are addressed, such ensuring roadworthy transport and that there are seat belts for each passenger for example. They've stated there will be a full investigation and until then all tours with that company are suspended. It's not yet clear exactly what happened.

 

At the end of the day, you're travelling in a third world country, with lax road rules and poor roads. There's only so much cruise companies can do, and they often contribute funds to ports to help improve infrastructure, but that money isn't always used wisely.

[GUT2407]

If you book a cruise where the contract is said to be governed by Australian Law they do have a duty of care.

 

Your real question is how much do they need to do to discharge that duty?

[bazzaw]

We recently did an all day ships shore tour from Colombo Sri Lanka to Kandy - and back. I honestly thought that I/we were going to die on this bus trip. I will not even try to explain it here - except to say that the trip was just so far "over the top" to be unexplainable unless you were there to experience it . Essentially it was because the distance of the trip was too far for the road conditions/traffic - hence the bus driver had to drive even faster and more erratically than normal Sri Lankan driving (which of itself has to be seen to be believed)

 

The concept of whether the cruise company has a legal duty of care or not is irrelevant if you are dead!!!!!

 

BTW - the ship was Sun Princess

Edited June 21, 2016 by bazzaw

[J_Busworth]

I think the lines have a duty of care to some extent, but sometimes accidents happen, even with safe tour operators

[The_Big_M]

At the end of the day, you're travelling in a third world country, with lax road rules and poor roads. There's only so much cruise companies can do, and they often contribute funds to ports to help improve infrastructure, but that money isn't always used wisely.

 

This.

 

Short of operating the tours themselves, with their own staff imported across (which isn't going to happen due to labour laws) they have to rely on local operators.

 

While they do diligence and get commitments, that doesn't mean you can expect the same conditions as locally, and just like locally you'll find individuals who break laws and do whatever they feel like. It certainly doesn't mean it's sanctioned, but given the above there isn't any viable alternative aside from not operating at all - which would make many passengers unhappy, and actually result in a more dangerous experience for both ship and non-ship tour passengers, since there would be even less oversight and involvement than at present.

[ozziepost]

I think the lines have a duty of care to some extent, but sometimes accidents happen, even with safe tour operators

 

I agree when you take a ships tour you would assume that the protocols would be in place if an incident took place and that you would be looked after.

 

On the other hand if you do your own independent touring its up to the passenger to exercise due diligence and make sure that any DIY touring that they undertake is safe.

 

On some of our visits to Santo I have watched passengers returning to the ship from the upper decks. On most of these I have noticed passengers riding in the back of utes and out of curiosity on one trip zoomed in on the utes with the camera and was astonished to see in many cases two whole families riding in the vehicles.

 

If an incident took place resulting a passenger falling out of the ute or heaven forbid a vehicle rollover took place the carnage would have been horrific.

 

It would be fair comment to assume that the Travel insurance companies could consider that this practice was in breach of their T&C's and not cover the passengers for the incident with the resultant consequences catastrophic for all concerned.

Edited June 21, 2016 by ozziepost

[Beanb41]

From news reports I have seen and read this side of the ditch P & O are very much in damage control mode over the Vanuatu bus crash. I have not seen anything to say if it was a ships excursion or a private one. If it was a ships excursion then I guess they will have their litigation lawyers lined up as I am sure some lengthy litigation is going to follow against someone. Reading between the lines and the fact that P & O have rolled out the big guns then this accident occurred on a ships excursion

Edited June 21, 2016 by Beanb41

[MicCanberra]

Of all the cruise line excursions I have done on many differing lines. The tour operators and guides have always been of a high standard and have had good safety standards as well. Some private tours I have been on have not been to the same standards. We research and choose carefully when picking private tours but having joined some tours that others have organised (through a roll call) can sometimes yield a mickey mouse operation. 'Buyer beware' and 'You get what you pay for' are two phrases that may suit when choosing tours.

[mrs and mrs]

In light of the tragic events in Vanuatu (bus crash on cruise-line shore excursion, many seriously injured - see separate link) - what has been your experience re safety when taking tours in places with limited local infrastructure ? (e.g. South Pacific etc?)

 

 

 

What do you think should be the level of responsibility taken by the cruise line (through their agents) providing excursions?

 

As a minimum, do you think that the cruise line should satisfy itself (or get the undertaking to this effect from the co-ordinating agents) that the buses are safe (no bold tires, mechanically sound) and that tour buses drivers have the appropriate skills and responsibility to drive them (no dangerous speeding etc) ??

 

Im sorry can you just let people heal abit first,Reflect,Readjust,Commiserate,Mourn.Feel,Reach-out.

You've done my head in.

Edited June 21, 2016 by mrs and mrs

[MicCanberra]

From news reports I have seen and read this side of the ditch P & O are very much in damage control mode over the Vanuatu bus crash. I have not seen anything to say if it was a ships excursion or a private one. If it was a ships excursion then I guess they will have their litigation lawyers lined up as I am sure some lengthy litigation is going to follow against someone. Reading between the lines and the fact that P & O have rolled out the big guns then this accident occurred on a ships excursion

 

It was reported that it was a ship's excursion and the cruise line has suspended all tours with the company until after an investigation.

[Beanb41]

It was reported that it was a ship's excursion and the cruise line has suspended all tours with the company until after an investigation.

 

Having been to Vanuatu and seen the quality of the vehicles taking passengers and the poorly maintained road, which are probably worse since the cyclone I think that the cruise line is going to have some serious explaining to do. Harsh as it may seem if the case is litigated in Australia, payouts will be considerably less than if it is litigated in a US Court.

 

I am guessing that all cruise lines will be following a similar line especially once the American based ships return downunder in a few months time.

 

This accident is going to pay havoc with an already fragile Vanuatu economy

[taffy62]

I have cruised numerous times with P&O and been on various organised tours.

I hadn't really thought much about it only that every time that we have been to the pre shore tour information session in the marque theatre P&O have always emphasised that they have vetted the people they use and that passenger safety it their utmost priority and if you use locals its at your own risk and also that if your late back the ship won't wait for you.

I have never had any problem but I must admit on my last tour to the Cascade Waterfalls a few months ago I was concerned that our driver was looking over to his collegue and talking to her and taking his eyes off the road for longer than I was comfortable with.

[MicCanberra]

I have cruised numerous times with P&O and been on various organised tours.

I hadn't really thought much about it only that every time that we have been to the pre shore tour information session in the marque theatre P&O have always emphasised that they have vetted the people they use and that passenger safety it their utmost priority and if you use locals its at your own risk and also that if your late back the ship won't wait for you.

I have never had any problem but I must admit on my last tour to the Cascade Waterfalls a few months ago I was concerned that our driver was looking over to his collegue and talking to her and taking his eyes off the road for longer than I was comfortable with.

 

That can be very unnerving when they do that. I prefer if they just concentrated on the road.

[mum and son]

It was reported that it was a ship's excursion and the cruise line has suspended all tours with the company until after an investigation.

 

Interesting development. This could mean a lot of changes in future...

 

It's probably better that it was a ship's excursion because the poor souls involved are getting 110% of P&O's attention - which translates to the fastest and best care available to assist them physically and otherwise after such an awful experience.

[Kinkacruiser]

My heart goes out to all those injured in the Vila crash....such a tragedy!

 

I'm curious about liability and cost. Who accept liability in this case and whose insurance will be accessed ....P&O, the tour operator or the passenger?

 

Do you think there will be some repercussions for shore excursions generally after this event.

[MicCanberra]

Interesting development. This could mean a lot of changes in future...

 

It's probably better that it was a ship's excursion because the poor souls involved are getting 110% of P&O's attention - which translates to the fastest and best care available to assist them physically and otherwise after such an awful experience.

 

It may, for starters, the cost of excursions may increase as fewer tour operators will be able to meet the criteria without increasing their costs.

[MicCanberra]

My heart goes out to all those injured in the Vila crash....such a tragedy!

 

I'm curious about liability and cost. Who accept liability in this case and whose insurance will be accessed ....P&O, the tour operator or the passenger?

 

Do you think there will be some repercussions for shore excursions generally after this event.

 

I would think the tour company and P&O (via their insurance companies) will be covering the costs for this one. In regards for future excursions, costs are likely to increase as companies will be required to meet the higher standards.

[The_Big_M]

I'm curious about liability and cost. Who accept liability in this case and whose insurance will be accessed ....P&O, the tour operator or the passenger?

 

Insurance isn't fully about liability. e.g. you have car insurance which will cover your damage, even if someone else is liable, and then the insurer chases the other party up.

 

Similarly here, if the passenger has their own insurance they can lodge through them. However, P&O will also cover passengers on the basis that it's their own booked excursion. They would then chase up with the tour operator on the basis of their contract, if liability is determined lies with the tour operator (as it sounds to be, but that's a legal assessment of the facts, which we don't have many, just limited hearsay in effect).