What's the use of a muster drill if it takes place in a restaurant?

[chengkp75]

Again, the muster station locations are determined when the ship is built, and will not vary over the life of the ship. It all depends on how much space is available under the boats, as this is the IMO's preferred location.

[4x4bob]

Well, the first thing to be sacrificed is modesty. Bathroom is handled by opening one of the canvas doors, dropping trou, turning around to face into the boat, grab the handles on either side of the door, and squatting. Sorry, but you did ask.

 

Sea sickness is taken care of via the bilge pump. But, yes, it can get memorable in a hurry.

 

Chengkp75

 

Thanks for answering my question.

 

Bob

[john watson]

Firstly, the aforementioned Carnival Lifeboat looked a bit basic in comparison to other lines.

 

On the idea of having muster drills at the lifeboat so you may be comfortable with identifying your one, where it is, how to find it and deriving additional calmness in this way. What happens at anchor at tender ports when a genuine alarm is sounded and you go down and find YOUR LIFEBOAT is on tender duties?

 

Regards John

[sparks1093]

Well, the first thing to be sacrificed is modesty. Bathroom is handled by opening one of the canvas doors, dropping trou, turning around to face into the boat, grab the handles on either side of the door, and squatting. Sorry, but you did ask.

 

Sea sickness is taken care of via the bilge pump. But, yes, it can get memorable in a hurry.

 

Preferably not into the wind.

[euro cruiser]

First off, as with a lot of things on Wikipedia, the information given is misleading, incomplete, or incorrect.

AMEN!

 

I am far more concerned about the people standing around me during the safety presentation and am only comforted by the fact that, having paid attention, I can get myself to safety faster than they can after not paying attention at all.

 

The entire experience often reminds me of college; if the old adage about taking a test at the same level of drunkenness as when you studied, well maybe these folks will be okay after all (assuming they keep drinking at that rate throughout the cruise).

[Ex techie]

On DCL we we told if stepping off with a small jump, say 10 feet+, to put the life jacket over one shoulder, and jump as it would definitely snap your neck otherwise.

 

ex techie

 

And I hate to contradict those lessons, or to say that HAL's training, like most cruise lines' training, needs updating, but let me put this out there for those interested.

 

If you do what is described, using the "horseshoe" type of lifejackets commonly used on cruise ships, and you jump from any height at all, you probably won't survive. The buoyancy in the lifejacket in front of your head, will try to float as soon as it hits the water, while your heavier body will continue down into the water some, with the result of a possible snapped neck. Take one hand and hook it into the neck hole of the lifejacket in front to hold it from rising up, and use your other hand to cover nose and mouth.

 

Just saw techie's response about the lifejacket, but wrapping your arms over the jacket is really not enough. Hook that hand in under your chin.

 

Hi Chief,

Is what I described correct and still procedure?

Life jacket over one shoulder, arms crossed, nose pinched and mouth covered, feet crossed?

 

ex techie

[AmazedByCruising]

If you do what is described, using the "horseshoe" type of lifejackets commonly used on cruise ships, and you jump from any height at all, you probably won't survive. The buoyancy in the lifejacket in front of your head, will try to float as soon as it hits the water, while your heavier body will continue down into the water some, with the result of a possible snapped neck.

 

In the event people would have to actually jump overboard, I'd much prefer the things like Ex techie showed here

 

Unless I'm mistaken that the red "tube" is meant to have crew fall safeley, these look like a low cost, easy to place anywhere, no training needed way to cover the distance between your deck and the water. Just one crew member to tell you you'd need to wait 10 seconds after the previous guest went down. I'd like some of those tubes available after seeing how "smooth" lowering lifeboats on Costa Concordia was, and that was without a hurricane.

 

Somewhat related, I had a small discussion with someone about this report http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Senate2013.pdf. Page 64, "Appendix 3: Summary of Persons Overboard, January 1995 – June 2013 (n=210)" it says 9.5% "Fall". Maybe it was different in 1995, but am I wrong in thinking there's absolutely no way you can "fall" overboard on a modern ship without one of the other reasons (alcohol, casino losses, suicide, murder, fight)? I cannot imagine falling of a ship without standing on a table next to the fence first.

[Ex techie]

Even though the lifeboat capacity is based on a 75kg (165 lb) person, and is only 18" side to side and 24" front to back, you will be able to get everyone in, it just requires dramatic leadership by the boat crew. Passengers will sit hip to hip (pressed together, not just touching), and with alternating passengers leaning forward or sitting upright to get the shoulders to fit the narrower hip spacing.

 

No, the only lifeboats with a toilet are the 360 person behemoths on the Oasis class ships. The latrine is the big blue area outside the boat. Those round covers are where the water, provisions, and emergency gear are stored. They have those watertight lids to provide additional buoyancy.

 

it just requires dramatic leadership

 

LMAO!

That is such a good way to phrase it! lol!

 

It's been a while since I've seen the inside of a lifeboat, and I was always assigned to liferaft commander duties, so never really had to deal with them.

That whole pulling the descender handle and not forgetting to let go afterwards, always worried me a bit TBH!

 

Using the sea was what i was told, but did wonder about lifeboats. Storage makes sense.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Preferably not into the wind.

 

LMAO!

Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

Always check the wind direction! lol!

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

In the event people would have to actually jump overboard, I'd much prefer the things like Ex techie showed here

 

Unless I'm mistaken that the red "tube" is meant to have crew fall safeley, these look like a low cost, easy to place anywhere, no training needed way to cover the distance between your deck and the water. Just one crew member to tell you you'd need to wait 10 seconds after the previous guest went down. I'd like some of those tubes available after seeing how "smooth" lowering lifeboats on Costa Concordia was, and that was without a hurricane.

 

Somewhat related, I had a small discussion with someone about this report http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Senate2013.pdf. Page 64, "Appendix 3: Summary of Persons Overboard, January 1995 – June 2013 (n=210)" it says 9.5% "Fall". Maybe it was different in 1995, but am I wrong in thinking there's absolutely no way you can "fall" overboard on a modern ship without one of the other reasons (alcohol, casino losses, suicide, murder, fight)? I cannot imagine falling of a ship without standing on a table next to the fence first.

 

The shoots are to be used if lifeboats cannot be lowered for any reason and for Crew I believe.

For example like the Concordia, who over some time, a couple of hours, listed so badly before the abandon ship command was given by that POS captain, that one side's lifeboats could not be lowered.

It could also be a fire on on side of the ship that also prevents them being launched. And many other reasons.

 

They are not just for crew I believe, but also for Guests on Oasis class.

 

As for a Guest falling, it is practically impossible, without wanting to, or as you state being inebriated.

As for crew falling when using a bosuns chair working on the exterior of the ship, these days the crew are MADE to use fall arrest harnesses and it is not optional.

 

Someone forgot to tell Donald though!

 

And his nephew isn't helping! lol!

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

Firstly, the aforementioned Carnival Lifeboat looked a bit basic in comparison to other lines.

 

On the idea of having muster drills at the lifeboat so you may be comfortable with identifying your one, where it is, how to find it and deriving additional calmness in this way. What happens at anchor at tender ports when a genuine alarm is sounded and you go down and find YOUR LIFEBOAT is on tender duties?

 

Regards John

 

John, here is the post I found the pictures from on Google images.

Carnival Fantasy: Launched in 1990.

 

Ever wondered what the INSIDE of one of those lifeboats looked like.......without having to actually NEED one?

 

While on a Fantasy cruise this month, the lifeboats were being inspected, so were open. I took pictures, of course!

 

 

Note the CAPACITY printed on the bow and keep that in mind as you look further...........

 

 

Those black silouettes are where each person needs to put their "butt".

 

 

The white structure is where the pilot (operator) climbs up to sit to drive.

 

 

Notice the seats in a circular pattern and double-decked. Maybe the "conversation pit"???

 

By the way, I did count the number of "butt prints"...............There are 150 of them. I wonder what they do about those individuals that might need more than one of those "prints"...................

 

As for if you have a tender lifeboat, I would guess they would have to return to the ship if the number of Guests aboard was above the capacity of the remaining lifeboats. Or if required, use one of the additional liferafts.

 

ex techie

[AmazedByCruising]

Unless I missed the memo, I assume every passenger on the ship, regardless of cruise fare paid, is equal when it comes to mustering and getting into a lifeboat?

 

Do the suite passengers get in the lifeboats first?:confused:

 

At least it used to be a long time ago.

 

Compared to daily life I think there's still a big distinction between classes on a ship. Some people can and are willing to pay for faster embarkation, a butler, 2 story "cabins" and a piano. Others are in an inside cabin thinking hard if they should or shouldn't pay $50 for a shorex.

 

Besides a drill probably being easier (and chenkp75 makes a convincing case to do so) when all guests are treated equal, I don't see why muster drill should be an exception to the general rule that people paying more money have a better experience than people who pay less.

[Ex techie]

Here is inside a lifeboat on the Disney Magic: Launched 1998

 

 

Just for comparison.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

At least it used to be a long time ago.

 

Compared to daily life I think there's still a big distinction between classes on a ship. Some people can and are willing to pay for faster embarkation, a butler, 2 story "cabins" and a piano. Others are in an inside cabin thinking hard if they should or shouldn't pay $50 for a shorex.

 

Besides a drill probably being easier (and chenkp75 makes a convincing case to do so) when all guests are treated equal, I don't see why muster drill should be an exception to the general rule that people paying more money have a better experience than people who pay less.

 

They can pay what they wish to for their Stateroom aboard the ship, but if they need to leave the ship, their life is just as valuable as someone on deck 1 inside, so any illusions of grandeur will very quickly disappear!

They will be spoken to and treated equally to any other Guest, and dealt with severely if they think their status means diddly squat to the crew rescuing them!

 

ex techie

[chengkp75]

Firstly, the aforementioned Carnival Lifeboat looked a bit basic in comparison to other lines.

 

On the idea of having muster drills at the lifeboat so you may be comfortable with identifying your one, where it is, how to find it and deriving additional calmness in this way. What happens at anchor at tender ports when a genuine alarm is sounded and you go down and find YOUR LIFEBOAT is on tender duties?

 

Regards John

 

I don't know, it looks like all the lifeboats I've seen. It's not a tender boat, but those are totally different. There are very few manufacturers of lifeboats, so they are all basically the same, and there isn't a lot of "customization" available for upscale cruise lines. :D

[AmazedByCruising]

They can pay what they wish to for their Stateroom aboard the ship, but if they need to leave the ship, their life is just as valuable as someone on deck 1 inside, so any illusions of grandeur will very quickly disappear!

They will be spoken to and treated equally to any other Guest, and dealt with severely if they think their status means diddly squat to the crew rescuing them!

 

ex techie

 

Totally agree on what would (and should) happen when things go wrong. That's different from how passengers should be trained for such an event. That part could be nicer if people are willing to pay for that. I wouldn't, (and unfortunately) couldn't, but I can see the really really rich have a personal lifevest training and a muster station that happens to be their state room, having 5 crew assigned to just get two people to their life boat.

Edited August 5, 2016 by AmazedByCruising
spelling

[pris993]

If there is a true emergency no amount of training of passengers is going to make a real difference. Training of crew is what really counts.

 

The best we can do, take responsibility to know where our life boat station and life boat is located and how to get there from our cabin. Even this may not make a lot of difference.

 

Next cruise on a main stream line.

 

Next use some common sense in an emergency.

[cruzincurt]

 

Maybe it was different in 1995, but am I wrong in thinking there's absolutely no way you can "fall" overboard on a modern ship without one of the other reasons (alcohol, casino losses, suicide, murder, fight)? I cannot imagine falling of a ship without standing on a table next to the fence first.

casino losses is a new one to me.

Edited August 5, 2016 by cruzincurt

[Ex techie]

Totally agree on what would (and should) happen when things go wrong. That's different from how passengers should be trained for such an event. That part could be nicer if people are willing to pay for that. I wouldn't, (and unfortunately) couldn't, but I can see the really really rich have a personal lifevest training and a muster station that happens to be their state room, having 5 crew assigned to just get two people to their life boat.

 

A personal muster station..... I think it is unlikely, as it would put additional crew at great risk, for no reward apart from monetary.

Yes a butler "could" give Guests a demonstration of how to don a life jacket, and the little light and whistle, but he or she would still have show and demonstrate to the Guests the nearest and most accessible path to their emergency station, and that can sometimes mean using usually crew only areas and staircases depending on their Stateroom location.

 

And emergencies do not always happen at night when one would be in their Stateroom asleep, so it is necessary, however inconvenient, that EVERY Guest attend the drill and put their spending aside, know they emergency station location, and deal with it!

 

Remember Guests on Concordia were at dinner when she struck the rocks.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

If there is a true emergency no amount of training of passengers is going to make a real difference. Training of crew is what really counts.

 

The best we can do, take responsibility to know where our life boat station and life boat is located and how to get there from our cabin. Even this may not make a lot of difference.

 

Next cruise on a main stream line.

 

Next use some common sense in an emergency.

 

I agree that it will be chaos, and the plane crashing landing in Dubai shows how dumb some people can act in a crisis, as many were trying to get carry ons out of the overhead lockers while the parts of the plane were on fire!

 

This is when not in the confines of a plane environment, the crew will be a lot less "hospitable" and not just point, but possibly push you in the direction you need to go as a physical aide to make you move and not question it.

 

But please do not try to use common sense, as what you think is sensical may not be! Follow instruction.

Be as calm as you can, be as rational as you can, listen to the instructions either from the crew or over the P.A, and follow those directions.

 

Basically, shut up, do as your told. Bluntly.

 

As I and others have stated above, just because you are mustered does not mean the ship is sinking / on fire / and everyone is abanonding ship!

 

ex techie

 

But please do not try to use common sense, as what you think is sensical may not be! Follow instruction.

 

I should edit that.

 

But please do not try to use common sense in an emergency situation, as what you think is sensical during the chaos may not be, and (hopefully) with hindsight you may look back and think why on earth would I have done that?! But under the stress it seemed logical.

Follow instruction from the crew.

There can be no Sunday morning quarterbacks in situations, only command from the Captain and his or her's officers to control the situation, and have an overview of everything happening.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

casino losses is a new one to me.

 

A persons losses at a casino would be considered a personal loss.

 

Did you mean casino loses?

 

ex techie

[iheartbda]

And I hate to contradict those lessons, or to say that HAL's training, like most cruise lines' training, needs updating, but let me put this out there for those interested.

 

If you do what is described, using the "horseshoe" type of lifejackets commonly used on cruise ships, and you jump from any height at all, you probably won't survive. The buoyancy in the lifejacket in front of your head, will try to float as soon as it hits the water, while your heavier body will continue down into the water some, with the result of a possible snapped neck. Take one hand and hook it into the neck hole of the lifejacket in front to hold it from rising up, and use your other hand to cover nose and mouth.

 

Just saw techie's response about the lifejacket, but wrapping your arms over the jacket is really not enough. Hook that hand in under your chin.

 

I will say that in all our muster drills, Princess was the only one who ever said anything about the possibility of having to jump, even it the procedure was incorrect.

 

As far as Amazed By Cruising's suggesting people paying a premium to get personal muster attention, I cannot imagine the outcry. People complain now about a few inconsequential perks people in suites get because they have paid more.

Edited August 5, 2016 by iheartbda

[sparks1093]

I don't know, it looks like all the lifeboats I've seen. It's not a tender boat, but those are totally different. There are very few manufacturers of lifeboats, so they are all basically the same, and there isn't a lot of "customization" available for upscale cruise lines. :D

 

As long as they keep me afloat until help arrives I don't care too much what they look like.;) Far better than bobbing around in a life jacket.

[pris993]

I agree that it will be chaos, and the plane crashing landing in Dubai shows how dumb some people can act in a crisis, as many were trying to get carry ons out of the overhead lockers while the parts of the plane were on fire!

 

This is when not in the confines of a plane environment, the crew will be a lot less "hospitable" and not just point, but possibly push you in the direction you need to go as a physical aide to make you move and not question it.

 

But please do not try to use common sense, as what you think is sensical may not be! Follow instruction.

Be as calm as you can, be as rational as you can, listen to the instructions either from the crew or over the P.A, and follow those directions.

 

Basically, shut up, do as your told. Bluntly.

 

As I and others have stated above, just because you are mustered does not mean the ship is sinking / on fire / and everyone is abanonding ship!

 

ex techie

 

 

 

I should edit that.

 

But please do not try to use common sense in an emergency situation, as what you think is sensical during the chaos may not be, and (hopefully) with hindsight you may look back and think why on earth would I have done that?! But under the stress it seemed logical.

Follow instruction from the crew.

There can be no Sunday morning quarterbacks in situations, only command from the Captain and his or her's officers to control the situation, and have an overview of everything happening.

 

I disagree with you... on the Italian ship... passengers were being told to go back to their cabins...over the load speaker, anyone who follow that direction would have died. So one does need to think for themselves sometimes.

[chengkp75]

I disagree with you... on the Italian ship... passengers were being told to go back to their cabins...over the load speaker, anyone who follow that direction would have died. So one does need to think for themselves sometimes.

 

And I will disagree with both of you.

 

Many passengers who heeded the announcements on the Concordia, did in fact return to their cabins, but also survived.

 

Now, on the Concordia, the muster stations are at the lifeboats, so some of this argument is moot. Yes, use some common sense in an emergency. However, that should not mean obstinately standing at your lifeboat when your muster station is elsewhere. As I have stated many times before, the purpose of the passenger muster, whether drill or actual emergency, is for accountability and control, not about the boats. If your common sense tells you that there is a situation where you feel your safety is threatened, by all means hang out at your muster station, wherever it may be, but do not go to a lifeboat station if that is not your muster location.

 

The muster stations and their locations, along with the training of the crew, are for your safety, and when you present them with a situation that is outside of their training, things can start to go wrong. If you are standing at your lifeboat station, and are not accounted for at your muster station, then crew must be delegated to go looking for you, taking resources away from focusing on the emergency.

 

The sole reason there were any lives lost on the Concordia was not that Schettino hit a rock, but that he failed to muster the passengers in a timely fashion. Compare the Concordia, where the muster signal was not sounded until nearly one hour after the allision, to the Star Princess, where the muster was sounded almost immediately after the fire was detected, and the passengers spent 6+ hours at their muster stations, but there was only one life lost.