Denied boarding -bevare if you hold a previus us visa

[Shawnino]

Exactly right. Blame yourself for not having all original documents when traveling outside the country. If you have questions before you travel you should read all the required documentation before arriving at port. Especially with the OP situation they should of taken every precaution and doubled checked with the US government what documents you will need to travel outside the US.

 

My wife is a green card/permanent resident and we always check on US govt website before we travel, because things change all the time. We always bring all our original documents even if they don't say to. We always have problems boarding every cruise, but we understand her situation and their duty (NCL) to obey the laws pertaining to documentation. But we have never been denied, just a longer wait at check in and a few more questions. The key is making sure YOU have your documents in order NOT NCL.

 

 

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So sorry for OP's troubles.

So sorry NCL made Abe3 work the holiday.

[mugtech]

Be interesting to see how much more complicated this gets with "extreme vetting " on January 21 for people traveling from known terrorist countries such as France or Belgium.

[abe3]

So sorry for OP's troubles.

 

So sorry NCL made Abe3 work the holiday.

 

 

Funny joke. Maybe you should realize that YOU are responsible for your OWN documentation. Not an airline, cruise line, foreign country, etc.

 

If I was in the OP situation and I have been in similar situations with my wife when traveling and had to cancel a vacation with no money in return because of my ignorance, but that is our fault and our fault alone. Yes I was upset with the travel company, airline, etc but I knew it was our fault alone and no one else for not looking into the laws pertaining to traveling abroad.

 

I am sick and tired of people blaming others and not putting the onus on themselves when it comes to their own lives and travels.

 

 

 

 

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[firstcarib]

Even a couple of years for transatlantics starting in Barcelona people without printed ESTA were guided to a different counter to log in the ESTA website and print the confirmation there.

 

Yes, I agree! Even though it actually states on the ESTA that it it not necessary to have a printed copy( it is an Electronic Visa!!!) we were asked very rudely for ours on boarding a transatlantic cruise recently. When I said it actually states that a copy is unnecessary, the NCL emplyee was even ruder, but eventually we got a copy from a screen somewhere! Its just their bad training , ignorance & dire customer service attitude. Its the only time we experienced this bad attitude, once on board everyone was great! So....my advice is...print out your ESTAs!!!

[mugtech]

Yes, I agree! Even though it actually states on the ESTA that it it not necessary to have a printed copy( it is an Electronic Visa!!!) we were asked very rudely for ours on boarding a transatlantic cruise recently. When I said it actually states that a copy is unnecessary, the NCL emplyee was even ruder, but eventually we got a copy from a screen somewhere! Its just their bad training , ignorance & dire customer service attitude. Its the only time we experienced this bad attitude, once on board everyone was great! So....my advice is...print out your ESTAs!!!

 

There are those that would say this is Nickel and diming, forcing you to print out a form which the form itself says is not required. Should it be printed with colored ink? (More expensive) or will black ink be sufficient? :D

[david_sobe]

I would hope NCL would post their travel document guidelines and requirements on their website. NCL probably can tell many stories of passengers denied re-entry to the port they left from. Here in Miami you would not believe the stories even boarding with fake documents to take a cruise only to be detained, charged, sentenced and then deported. I will never forget the case of a man that worked for a cruise line. His significant other lied on a passport application to get travel documents so they could take a cruise together. When the cruise returned to port, the subject was arrested, charged, sentenced and then deported. The scrutiny from CBT is NOT leaving the country but on entry. I think NCL is playing it safe to not put their passengers in that kind of jeopardy. An over-stay sounds trivial. But remember all the 9/11 hijackers were overstays that no one investigated or cared they overstayed. Over-staying a visa is a big deal in the United States these days after 9/11.

Edited December 26, 2016 by david_sobe

[Charles4515]

Funny joke. Maybe you should realize that YOU are responsible for your OWN documentation. Not an airline, cruise line, foreign country, etc.

 

If I was in the OP situation and I have been in similar situations with my wife when traveling and had to cancel a vacation with no money in return because of my ignorance, but that is our fault and our fault alone. Yes I was upset with the travel company, airline, etc but I knew it was our fault alone and no one else for not looking into the laws pertaining to traveling abroad.

 

I am sick and tired of people blaming others and not putting the onus on themselves when it comes to their own lives and travels.

 

 

 

 

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There are always people on the forum that defend the cruise line no matter what. Never understood that mentality. It was not the fault of the OP. What happened here is that NCL employees were rigid because they either can not think, are afraid to think, or would not take any effort to find out that the documents complied. Most of us have encountered those types at some time or another. Employees of a company with lazy minds and lazy habits.

 

 

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Edited December 26, 2016 by Charles4515

[Aquahound]

Maybe you should realize that YOU are responsible for your OWN documentation. Not an airline, cruise line, foreign country, etc

 

What good is making sure YOU have your OWN documentation when the cruise line is too stupid to understand that the documentation is legal?

 

Sorry, but if the OP's story is the whole story, NCL was wrong on this one.

[Jetlagged787]

...NCL probably can tell many stories of passengers denied re-entry to the port they left from...

My bold.

 

FINALLY some common sense comment that puts this whole subject into perspective. Thank you David_Sobe for the explanation.

 

1. The OP DID have the correct paperwork and complied fully with the requirements for travel from Europe to the US by applying for ESTAs, which were granted.

 

2. Those ESTAs were considered by CBT to be in order when the passengers arrive in the US the previous day to start their holiday and they were granted entry into the country.

 

So why would those same ESTAs not be in order to reenter the country at the end of the cruise? A common sense question that the employee concerned should have asked themselves at the time and realised the mistake that they were making.

[SeaShark]

My bold.

 

FINALLY some common sense comment that puts this whole subject into perspective. Thank you David_Sobe for the explanation.

 

1. The OP DID have the correct paperwork and complied fully with the requirements for travel from Europe to the US by applying for ESTAs, which were granted.

 

2. Those ESTAs were considered by CBT to be in order when the passengers arrive in the US the previous day to start their holiday and they were granted entry into the country.

 

So why would those same ESTAs not be in order to reenter the country at the end of the cruise? A common sense question that the employee concerned should have asked themselves at the time and realised the mistake that they were making.

 

Makes sense...in a bubble. However, while we know that the ESTAs allowed them to enter the US, do we know for a fact that the ESTAs were written to allow them to enter the other countries that the ship would be stopping at during the cruise??

 

Just because they had documents which allowed travel between their home country and the US does not mean that those documents allowed travel to other countries.

[Jetlagged787]

Makes sense...in a bubble. However, while we know that the ESTAs allowed them to enter the US, do we know for a fact that the ESTAs were written to allow them to enter the other countries that the ship would be stopping at during the cruise??

 

Just because they had documents which allowed travel between their home country and the US does not mean that those documents allowed travel to other countries.

 

I agree Seashark but in a previous post the OP did state, "None of the countries visited during a standard caribbean cruise needs any visa if you hold most European or US passport."

 

I assume from that statement that his party were on a Caribbean cruise not requiring any visas.

[casofilia]

If a non-American turns up at any port wanting to board a ship which will dock in America how does the person dockside know they have an ESTA if the traveler does not have a paper copy?

 

If the traveler does have an electronic ESTA how can it be proved it will still be extant when the ship actually arrives in America without a paper copy?

 

Princess has a "Round the World" that has people boarding in Auckland, Sydney etc. All non-American passengers travelling to the USA will need some form of authority, Visa or ESTA, to allow entry to the USA. Without a paper copy how will Princess know that they will not be held accountable for taking non-admittable persons?

 

While it is NOT necessary to carry a paper copy when entering the USA, the authorities there are directly connected to the Homeland Security etc, databases and can check the status of any passenger. How do cruise lines and their shore employees do it outside the USA. The Cruise lines need to know that everyone boarding the boat can get off in the USA as they have the right paperwork.

 

That also applies to anyone getting on the boat in an American port and then finishing a cruise back in an American port.

 

For heaven's sake, if you are a non-American and need an ESTA carry a paper copy.

[SeaShark]

I agree Seashark but in a previous post the OP did state, "None of the countries visited during a standard caribbean cruise needs any visa if you hold most European or US passport."

 

I assume from that statement that his party were on a Caribbean cruise not requiring any visas.

 

While we are :rolleyes: assuming...

 

 

You seem to be about 3/4 of the way to what is actually going on here. Keeping in mind the fact that they were already IN the US when this happened, what do you think that the port employee or CBT employee (as we know it would NOT be an NCL employee onshore making this call) saw in the documents that could possibly cause them to deny their use in this case? The employee HAD to have seen something...they don't just flip a coin to decide who to allow and who to deny.

 

And...assuming that it was just a port authority employee and not CBT who examined the documents, what did CBT say about the issue? Being that CBT agents are present in each and every US port, it would have been nothing to ask them to review the documents on the spot. So, what did they say?

 

When your documents are "good" you involve the CBT authorities. When there is an issue with those documents, you go home...without any sort of question or protest.

[Charles4515]

If a non-American turns up at any port wanting to board a ship which will dock in America how does the person dockside know they have an ESTA if the traveler does not have a paper copy?

 

 

 

If the traveler does have an electronic ESTA how can it be proved it will still be extant when the ship actually arrives in America without a paper copy?

 

 

 

Princess has a "Round the World" that has people boarding in Auckland, Sydney etc. All non-American passengers travelling to the USA will need some form of authority, Visa or ESTA, to allow entry to the USA. Without a paper copy how will Princess know that they will not be held accountable for taking non-admittable persons?

 

 

 

While it is NOT necessary to carry a paper copy when entering the USA, the authorities there are directly connected to the Homeland Security etc, databases and can check the status of any passenger. How do cruise lines and their shore employees do it outside the USA. The Cruise lines need to know that everyone boarding the boat can get off in the USA as they have the right paperwork.

 

 

 

That also applies to anyone getting on the boat in an American port and then finishing a cruise back in an American port.

 

 

 

For heaven's sake, if you are a non-American and need an ESTA carry a paper copy.

 

 

 

It would be prudent to have a paper copy. The OP has stated they did have a paper copy of the ESTA. So assuming everything the OP has told us is true, which I believe after carefully reading the OP's posts, that didn't make a difference.

 

 

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[Charles4515]

To me if there is a lesson to be leaned it would be to get a new passport without the old Visas which some slug without common sense might not understand.

 

 

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Edited December 26, 2016 by Charles4515

[SeaShark]

OK...time to put this to bed, yes? :rolleyes:

 

 

This excerpt is from the DHS page explaining ESTA:

 

"ESTA approval authorizes a traveler to board a carrier for travel to the United States under the VWP. Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier. See list of Signatory Carriers. While CBP recommends that you apply at least 72 hours before travel, you may apply any time prior to boarding. In most cases, a response is received within seconds of submitting an application."

 

One should make note that "Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier.".

 

Here is a link to latest list of private carriers who are approved by CBT to transport passengers traveling under ESTA: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Jun/Signatory%20VWP%20Carriers%28June%202016%292.pdf.

 

While some cruise lines (for example: Carnival, MSC, Royal Caribbean and even Oceania and Regent Seven Seas) are on the approved list, Norwegian is NOT. Since Norwegian is NOT a signatory visa waiver program carrier, it only stands to reason that you can't travel onboard under this program.

[Jetlagged787]

OK...time to put this to bed, yes? :rolleyes:

 

 

This excerpt is from the DHS page explaining ESTA:

 

"ESTA approval authorizes a traveler to board a carrier for travel to the United States under the VWP. Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier. See list of Signatory Carriers. While CBP recommends that you apply at least 72 hours before travel, you may apply any time prior to boarding. In most cases, a response is received within seconds of submitting an application."

 

One should make note that "Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier.".

 

Here is a link to latest list of private carriers who are approved by CBT to transport passengers traveling under ESTA: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Jun/Signatory%20VWP%20Carriers%28June%202016%292.pdf.

 

While some cruise lines (for example: Carnival, MSC, Royal Caribbean and even Oceania and Regent Seven Seas) are on the approved list, Norwegian is NOT. Since Norwegian is NOT a signatory visa waiver program carrier, it only stands to reason that you can't travel onboard under this program.

 

I was agrreing with you about putting this to bed until you came up with, "...Since Norwegian is NOT a signatory visa waiver program carrier, it only stands to reason that you can't travel onboard under this program." :eek:

 

That begs so many questions, such as what documentation us non-Americans must use? I'm sure there will be more to follow.

[GUEST080219]

While some cruise lines (for example: Carnival, MSC, Royal Caribbean and even Oceania and Regent Seven Seas) are on the approved list, Norwegian is NOT. Since Norwegian is NOT a signatory visa waiver program carrier, it only stands to reason that you can't travel onboard under this program.

 

However I traveled to the USA on a Norwegian ship under the ESTA then :rolleyes:

[stoneman56]

I am a US citizen and my wife British. She has been entering the US using the ESTA since the US did away with the visa waiver program.

 

We have sailed with NCL from the US on 4 occasions and never once have they batted an eyelid at her passport. (All trips were going to the Caribbean) and 1 transatlantic from Europe.

It is not a requirement to carry the paper copy, it means nothing anyway (ever heard of Photoshop). If NCL's terminals are not set up to auto check if you have a valid one, then all is needed is the surname and passport number of the individual and an internet connection.

 

Regardless of NCL not being party to the ESTA convention they sure seem to adhere to it, with us anyway.

Edited December 26, 2016 by stoneman56

[SeaShark]

However I traveled to the USA on a Norwegian ship under the ESTA then :rolleyes:

 

Yet, what you "claim" to have occurred does not negate the facts of the matter. (You didn't even indicate WHEN you traveled...the approved list is dated June of 2016. Had you traveled before then, NCL might have been on the list at the time.)

 

• You have to be on the list (CURRENTLY) to transport passengers under ESTA.
   
  
• NCL is not on the list (CURRENTLY).
   
  
• The OP was denied the use of ESTA documents.
  

 

 

This forum is full of people who will always claim to be some sort of exception to the rule...to the point that you wonder if there even IS a rule. :rolleyes: Yet, the bottom line is, a rule does exist and if you run up against someone who follows the rules...you are stuck. Just because a person or persons claims that they got away with it doesn't change the rule and doesn't mean that the next person will get away with it.

[Charles4515]

Yet, what you "claim" to have occurred does not negate the facts of the matter. (You didn't even indicate WHEN you traveled...the approved list is dated June of 2016. Had you traveled before then, NCL might have been on the list at the time.)

 

 

 

• 
   
  
• You have to be on the list (CURRENTLY) to transport passengers under ESTA.
   
   
   
  
• NCL is not on the list (CURRENTLY).
   
   
   
  
• The OP was denied the use of ESTA documents.
   
  

 

 

 

 

 

This forum is full of people who will always claim to be some sort of exception to the rule...to the point that you wonder if there even IS a rule. :rolleyes: Yet, the bottom line is, a rule does exist and if you run up against someone who follows the rules...you are stuck. Just because a person or persons claims that they got away with it doesn't change the rule and doesn't mean that the next person will get away with it.

 

 

NCL lists ESTA on their web site. Here is their travel documents page.

 

https://www.ncl.com/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents

 

 

 

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[hawkeyetlse]

We were on the Jade TA from Barcelona to Tampa a month and a half ago. They accepted ESTA for boarding (and CBP accepted it in Miami). I don't know why NCL doesn't appear on that list of signatory carriers, but it's clear that NCL is authorized to transport passengers to the US under this program. If they were denying boarding to everyone with ESTAs since June 2016, we would have been hearing about it non-stop since then.

[triptolemus]

NCL lists ESTA on their web site. Here is their travel documents page.

 

https://www.ncl.com/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents

 

 

Context is key.

 

Electronic Travel Authorization

Per the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) requirements, all VWP travelers must obtain an electronic travel authorization prior to boarding a travel carrier to enter the United States. This can be done by completing the online application on the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s website. Applications may be submitted at any time prior to travel. However, DHS recommends that applications be submitted no less than 72 hours prior to travel.

 

This says nothing about ESTA being used to board the ship or travel to another country via the ship. The visa requirements for a given traveler remain in place relative to the individuals nationality and the countries they intend to visit.

 

The best advice always is to research CAREFULLY the travel document requirements for one's particular situation. Never rely on a single source, and never rely on an internet message board.

 

In the OP's case, it still isn't clear exactly where they were going (Caribbean is a big place) or where they are from (Europe is a big place).

[triptolemus]

Could NCL be transporting ESTA pax under their subsidiary Oceania Cruises somehow?

 

FYI, the most recent list is dated Dec 2016 and not at all easy to find. Norwegian Cruise Line still very much absent.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Dec/Signatory%20VWP%20Carriers%28December%202016%29.pdf

[kerryincork]

I'm from the EU. I have travelled to America a couple of times each year for cruises on NCL. If you are travelling to the USA for a vacation, even if just travelling through to the port of MIAMI the only document you need are a valid passport and your ESTA. You don't need any additional paperwork just because you're going on a cruise.

 

Also it clearly states on the ESTA website that you don't need to print out the ESTA receipt to enter or leave whether by land or sea.

 

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