Royal introduces non refundable booking option.

[bUU]

I'm ok with it as long as the new refundable prices aren't higher than the way pricing has always been in years past (by default, refundable).

Though we'll pay lower cruise fares for our upcoming cruises than we paid for comparable cruises ten years ago, adjusted for inflation, the actual dollar amount of the respective cruise fares have gone up. So the comparison you're talking about needs to be on an inflation-adjusted basis, not just comparing absolute numbers.

 

That is my concern, that these non-refundable rates are now basically where historical rates have always been for refundables, and now they are RAISING rates if you want it to be refundable.

Unfortunately, this will almost surely raise the refundable rate: Based on what we've seen in the travel and hospitality industry in the past, many consumers are going to latch onto the lower absolute dollar amount, without regard to what they are losing by doing so. The passengers left paying refundable fares will be passengers who highly value refundability. Theoretically, when you have an offering where the customers vary in terms of how much they value a certain feature of that offering, the value of that feature is not fully reflected in the price. The price reflects something like the average of the perceived value of the feature over all of the customers buying that product - the average of those who value that feature highly and those those who value it very little. If you offer those who value the feature very little a different product (i.e., a non-refundable fare), then who's left buying the original product? Only those customers who value the feature highly. The price would then reflect that those left buying that product all value that feature highly.

 

Putting it simply (as you suggested, Biker19): Making non-refundable fares the norm will invariably make refundable fares higher, even adjusted for inflation.

[Biker19]

Putting it simply (as you suggested, Biker19): Making non-refundable fares the norm will invariably make refundable fares higher, even adjusted for inflation.

I don't think that it's higher that makes the diff, but how much higher. I think the trend will probably bear this out, but that diff will reach a point where virtually no one books at those refundable rates and we have defacto NRD rates only.

[bUU]

I don't think that it's higher that makes the diff, but how much higher. I think the trend will probably bear this out, but that diff will reach a point where virtually no one books at those refundable rates and we have defacto NRD rates only.

Yes. There will always be hold-outs:

I won't book a non-refundable rate.

But I think the direction is toward making the US market work like the markets where non-refundable rates are the norm.

 

I wonder if this will affect the going rates for travel insurance.

[Biker19]

Yes. There will always be hold-outs:

 

But I think the direction is toward making the US market work like the markets where non-refundable rates are the norm.

There won't be many holds out to complain when decision is taken to remove the refundable option. Yes, having uniform world wide booking rules, is probably RCI's aim.

 

Biker, who wonders if CC will melt down when RCI decides to eliminate price drops.

[John&LaLa]

There won't be many holds out to complain when decision is taken to remove the refundable option. Yes, having uniform world wide booking rules, is probably RCI's aim.

 

Biker, who wonders if CC will melt down when RCI decides to eliminate price drops.

But then sales might come back

 

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[bouhunter]

Biker, who wonders if CC will melt down when RCI decides to eliminate price drops.

 

CC will need to add servers for that one.

 

Or maybe sooner when refundable deposits are removed entirely.

[sfaaa]

I bet it depends on the accounting model used.....

 

Tonight's special on RCCL of The Seas MDR menu: How to cook the books and get away with it.

[bUU]

Tonight's special on RCCL of The Seas MDR menu: How to cook the books and get away with it.

Heck, it is the IRS who publishes the cookbook.

[Biker19]

Heck, it is the IRS who publishes the cookbook.

and the SEC.

[John&LaLa]

and the SEC.

 

What's football got to do with accounting :confused:

[Biker19]

What's football got to do with accounting :confused:

Securities and Exchange Commission

 

The 10K filing might be of interest to the accountant crowd.

 

https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?action=view&cik=884887&accession_number=0000884887-17-000033&xbrl_type=v#

[The Fun Researcher]

This has already been established. ^

 

Darn!

 

Putting it simply (as you suggested, Biker19): Making non-refundable fares the norm will invariably make refundable fares higher, even adjusted for inflation.

 

Double Darn!

 

Leading up to our New Years Cruise on the RCI Liberty this year, I had reserved, and cancelled both a Carnival and an NCL cruise option. I had booked both because prices were excellent. With both bookings I made sure I had the refundable option. Once it became apparent that flights were going to be too high for either cruise (Thanksgiving week), I had to cancel. Taking away this refundable option for me would really limit our flexibility.

 

Dan

[Biker19]

Taking away this refundable option for me would really limit our flexibility.

For now, on some sailings and cabin categories, the refundable option premium is still fairly small (<$100pp), but I suspect that premium will go up over time.

[John&LaLa]

Darn!

 

 

 

Double Darn!

 

Leading up to our New Years Cruise on the RCI Liberty this year, I had reserved, and cancelled both a Carnival and an NCL cruise option. I had booked both because prices were excellent. With both bookings I made sure I had the refundable option. Once it became apparent that flights were going to be too high for either cruise (Thanksgiving week), I had to cancel. Taking away this refundable option for me would really limit our flexibility.

 

Dan

But isn't that the issue. You had multiple cruises booked that you couldn't take. [emoji33]

 

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[Milwaukee Eight]

But isn't that the issue. You had multiple cruises booked that you couldn't take. [emoji33]

 

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I think you hit a nerve

 

 

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[The Fun Researcher]

But isn't that the issue. You had multiple cruises booked that you couldn't take. [emoji33]

 

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No honestly, not at all. It doesn't bother me that I couldn't take the cruises. In all actuality, I found better cruise for us and I'm very happy I wasn't locked into the other two.

 

What it allowed me to do, based on the very basic rules of a refundable deposit, is lock in very good cruise rates in case one of those two would have worked. I cancelled both well ahead of the 90 day window when I found out that it wouldn't work, so maybe I'm not the demographic that these non-refundable fares are targeted at.(those who frequently booked cabins/suites and cancelling at the 90 day mark to still get a refund).

 

I don't like the idea of locking in a multi thousand dollar cruise over a year in advance, especially with airfare being such a big unknown.

 

Dan

[Milwaukee Eight]

No honestly, not at all. It doesn't bother me that I couldn't take the cruises. In all actuality, I found better cruise for us and I'm very happy I wasn't locked into the other two.

 

What it allowed me to do, based on the very basic rules of a refundable deposit, is lock in very good cruise rates in case one of those two would have worked. I cancelled both well ahead of the 90 day window when I found out that it wouldn't work, so maybe I'm not the demographic that these non-refundable fares are targeted at.(those who frequently booked cabins/suites and cancelling at the 90 day mark to still get a refund).

 

I don't like the idea of locking in a multi thousand dollar cruise over a year in advance, especially with airfare being such a big unknown.

 

Dan

 

 

 

How long did you hold them. It's not so much at final payment, although that seems to be the cancel date for many, but the fact those cabins were held out of inventory for others to book as rates continue to increase. Seems you were booking cabins you knew you would not use. I believe this was part of the issue.

 

 

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[traveling1969]

The policy of non-refundable deposits is repugnant. There is no upside for the consumer. If you think the cruise line will devote any additional revenue derived to enhance your cruise experience, your naivete is showing. We usually book well in advance for a better cabin selection and price. We don't book multiple cabins or multiple cruises. We do however like the freedom to change our mind and book a different cruise or book with a different cruise line. Yes, we look for lower prices, doesn't everyone? If we see a better deal, we go for it. If we have to change our plans for whatever reason, we want to do so without penalty. Who knows what will happen next year? Will you be able to take your vacation as planned? We understand that after final payment date, there are penalties. That's understood and reasonable.

 

It's a money grab, plain and simple. It started with no refunds for a price drop after final payment date. Then we were even denied on-board-credit after price drops. Non-refundable deposit rates won't be lower but refundable rates will surely be higher. It's a big win for the cruise lines and a big loss for the consumer.

 

When cancellation fees (which are essentially the same as a non-refundable deposit) were instituted by many travel agencies, I recall the hue and cry on these boards and the many recommendations to find other travel agencies who did not penalize you for changing your mind. Now the cruise lines are mimicking those punitive policies and doing as the airlines do with their two-tier pricing. It's a win loss situation plain and simple. A win for them and a loss for us. Soon they will be upping the future cruise deposits to $200 or even higher to put even more of our hard-earned money at risk or making the final payment date 6 months prior to sailing.

 

Smart shoppers beware! They're on to your nefarious schemes.:rolleyes:

 

Harry

Edited July 27, 2017 by traveling1969

[John&LaLa]

If better or more desirable cabins are available for longer periods of time, that's a win to one consumer....Me. 😉

 

 

 

 

 

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[The_Big_M]

But it's one time thing - once this transition happens, it will be the norm, and no real affect on the bottom line.

 

But it has a permanent benefit on earnings, since now non-refundable.

[sfaaa]

But it has a permanent benefit on earnings, since now non-refundable.

 

Nope, not so. NRD is a windfall to RCCL only if you cancel or are a no show. Otherwise, NRD is just part of your normal cruise fare which you pay at a discount plus receive an early booking OBC. End result: You save at RCCL's expense if you show up at the dock as intended.

[nealstuber]

Darn!

 

 

 

Double Darn!

 

Leading up to our New Years Cruise on the RCI Liberty this year, I had reserved, and cancelled both a Carnival and an NCL cruise option. I had booked both because prices were excellent. With both bookings I made sure I had the refundable option. Once it became apparent that flights were going to be too high for either cruise (Thanksgiving week), I had to cancel. Taking away this refundable option for me would really limit our flexibility.

 

Dan

 

 

 

Sorry sir, it's games like this that force all of the lines to charge if you cancel. Ok, you book a cruise hoping you'll see better airfare later - ok. But locking up two cabins for the same time on different lines when you have no plan for how to get there??? If many people do this, then all of a sudden they have to discount the cabins they thought were sold three months out.

 

I guess that was good news for me as I can't remember the last time I booked before final payment was due, but I certainly can understand the cruise lines' point of view here. If guys like you had kept it to one booking for a given week, we might not be in this situation. Both of us will have fewer options because you and others abused the refundable option.

 

Triple darn!

 

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[The_Big_M]

Nope, not so. NRD is a windfall to RCCL only if you cancel or are a no show.

 

Which demonstrates it WILL result in an ongoing increase in earnings.

 

Unless you're alleging that absolutely nobody will cancel or no-show with a non-refundable deposit...:confused:

[Biker19]

Unless you're alleging that absolutely nobody will cancel or no-show with a non-refundable deposit...:confused:

No, but any gains from that wouldn't even pay for Fain's house gardner.

[sfaaa]

Which demonstrates it WILL result in an ongoing increase in earnings.

 

Unless you're alleging that absolutely nobody will cancel or no-show with a non-refundable deposit...:confused:

 

Will it? Any no show revenue will be offset by NRD early booking discount and OBC coming out of RCCL pocket. Even in the best case scenario, it will likely be a wash for RCCL.