Tipping

[grapau27]

Accepted. Speaking from one's actions, on the one and only, P&O cruise being post 2001

With respect if you hadn't cruised P&O since before 2001 you don't have the experience to comment accurately.

We have done 16 P&O cruises and others like daiB a lot more so they have an up to date view of the P&O workings.

 

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[Eglesbrech]

I had forgotten about the half empty dining room on the last night. You don't give empty chairs a second thought now with all the alternative dining areas for people to choose from and autotips but way back then the only other choices were room service or the buffet and the only way of tipping by cash in an envelope usually on the last night.

 

There were always too many folks missing for it to be a coincidence.

 

There were also "urban legends" about people handing over envelopes with paper in them rather than money. While I didn't entirely believe them I did add a little thank you card with the tip so that the staff did not ever think we had done something a low as that.

[grapau27]

I had forgotten about the half empty dining room on the last night. You don't give empty chairs a second thought now with all the alternative dining areas for people to choose from and autotips but way back then the only other choices were room service or the buffet and the only way of tipping by cash in an envelope usually on the last night.

 

There were always too many folks missing for it to be a coincidence.

 

There were also "urban legends" about people handing over envelopes with paper in them rather than money. While I didn't entirely believe them I did add a little thank you card with the tip so that the staff did not ever think we had done something a low as that.

We remember it well and used to laugh about it although no laughing matter for the poor waiters.

 

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[insanemagnet]

I really don't think this will happen. P and O know who take off the charge so will omit giving it to those not down to receive it or that would be the fair way, we have no way of knowing.

 

That would be a pretty complex system to track those things through!

 

How would it work with waiters who work in the Freedom restaurants? Today you served X number of people at dinner who removed their service charge, but Y who did not, but at lunchtime you worked in the buffet for an hour and then served in the afternoon tea so did you serve anyone who removed their service charge, etc.

 

Good luck with making that work.

[balf]

Possible or not? funny how the buffet was busy,we always did second sitting before freedom dining and out of curiosity i looked in while walking around deck.

 

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Not difficult to understand why, passengers still with packing to do and prefer to wear the clothing they will wear next day, looking for a quick meal.

 

David.

[grapau27]

Not difficult to understand why, passengers still with packing to do and prefer to wear the clothing they will wear next day, looking for a quick meal.

 

David.

More like they didn't have cash in envelopes to hand out to the waiters.

 

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[insanemagnet]

More like they didn't have cash in envelopes to hand out to the waiters.

 

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So at least the burden of any failure to pay is now distributed amongst all the staff, as the tip pool is reduced.

 

Unless it is true as some have asserted that where passengers opt out of paying the service charge the staff have their share of the tip pool reduced in the expectation of cash tips which they retain.

[majortom10]

People should not be quick to judge without knowing the full facts not everybody not eating in MDR on the last evening are avoiding paying gratuities. If you have left auto gratuities on it doesn't really matter where you eat and think it says more about those that are judging as not being nice people not the ones that are eating in speciality dining or buffet which is there choice and they may have paid gratuities in cash the night before if they knew they would not be in on last night.

[grapau27]

People should not be quick to judge without knowing the full facts not everybody not eating in MDR on the last evening are avoiding paying gratuities. If you have left auto gratuities on it doesn't really matter where you eat and think it says more about those that are judging as not being nice people not the ones that are eating in speciality dining or buffet which is there choice and they may have paid gratuities in cash the night before if they knew they would not be in on last night.

This was an extension of what happened before autogratuities was introduced what we are replying to.

We pay autogratuities every time and at least the crew are guaranteed a large sum of it wheras previously people avoided the MDR on the last night or in a well documented American cruise on a P&O ship where customers filled there envelopes with paper and the crew were unfairly stiffed.

 

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[Florry]

I have never eaten in the MDR the last night on any cruise in 15 years. I have always paid my tips, before auto gratuities I would make a trip to the MDR to pay during the course of the last evening. This is because I choose to dine the final evening in speciality. As an aside those who dine in speciality very frequently, are paying double 'service charge' those evenings as gratuities are included in the cover charge, something people forget.

 

 

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[Eglesbrech]

I have never eaten in the MDR the last night on any cruise in 15 years. I have always paid my tips, before auto gratuities I would make a trip to the MDR to pay during the course of the last evening. This is because I choose to dine the final evening in speciality. As an aside those who dine in speciality very frequently, are paying double 'service charge' those evenings as gratuities are included in the cover charge, something people forget.

 

 

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I agree re the speciality restaurants, which we use quite a bit as well.

 

If everyone did as you did Florry there would have been no issue but the truth is there are many passengers who just don't pay tips in cash or auto.

 

I do sometimes feel like those of us who do pay (twice if using speciality as well) are subsidising those who don't. I know all the arguments why P &O won't add it to the price but actually they should.

[insanemagnet]

I know all the arguments why P &O won't add it to the price but actually they should.

 

So as it is P&O's interest not to do inclusive fares, how do you propose persuading them to change?

[Eglesbrech]

So as it is P&O's interest not to do inclusive fares, how do you propose persuading them to change?

 

I don't as it would probably be a waste of time. Personally I add a comment about it on every cruise but for well rehearsed commercial reasons they won't change and make the initial price higher.

 

They know that people won't vote with their or pound and stop the autotips / cash tips until they change the system as that would only hurt the staff, not the share holders and decision makers.

[majortom10]

This was an extension of what happened before autogratuities was introduced what we are replying to.

We pay autogratuities every time and at least the crew are guaranteed a large sum of it wheras previously people avoided the MDR on the last night or in a well documented American cruise on a P&O ship where customers filled there envelopes with paper and the crew were unfairly stiffed.

 

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But I did say that before auto gratuities were introduced we sometimes never ate in MDR on the last night but we always made sure that the waiters received their tips in envelopes on the night before.

[daiB]

I have never eaten in the MDR the last night on any cruise in 15 years. I have always paid my tips, before auto gratuities I would make a trip to the MDR to pay during the course of the last evening. This is because I choose to dine the final evening in speciality. As an aside those who dine in speciality very frequently, are paying double 'service charge' those evenings as gratuities are included in the cover charge, something people forget.

 

 

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Which restaurants would that be 15 years ago? BTW I am not in any way suggesting that you did not pay your tips.

 

 

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[dgs1956]

What is this obsession with tipping?

I pay auto-tips and no extra. I consider it more of a service charge than a tip.

I don't pay cash tips because quite frankly although I consider the service to be very good I don't think it can be considered to be exceptional.

P&O don't look like they are going to include tips so basically you are stuck with the present system.

Everyone chooses what they are going to do with regard to tipping and its obvious that regardless of how much discussion there is that nobody will change.

Tipping is not compulsory and so I cannot understand is why so many are concerned with what anyone else does. Personally I couldn't care less what others do including if they choose not to pay any at all.

[majortom10]

Do not understand why people get so uptight about some people not paying gratuities or how much they pay, when you go in a restaurant anywhere else on land nobody has any idea what others pay so how do you know when you tip that others might give more and therefore it is them that moan about fellow cruisers might be "stiffing" the staff of their wages. I feel really sorry for those that do not know for definite whatever anyone has paid or have such sad lives that they automatically assume that if you are not in MDR you are not paying tips and stiffing the staff its laughable.

[insanemagnet]

I don't as it would probably be a waste of time. Personally I add a comment about it on every cruise but for well rehearsed commercial reasons they won't change and make the initial price higher.

 

They know that people won't vote with their or pound and stop the autotips / cash tips until they change the system as that would only hurt the staff, not the share holders and decision makers.

 

I think you are right in the short term, but I think the end is sight.

 

My prediction is they will keep on nudging up the service charge to keep the amount in the tip pool the same as more and more customers simply stop paying - 2014 £4, 2017 £6, what will it be in 2020 £10, £12, £15 or more?

 

As the cost of the service charge gets larger and larger so the number of people not paying will accelerate, pushing the ever increasing burden onto a smaller and smaller group who do pay. As there will be insufficient money in the tip pool to pay staff, fares will rise with some of that increase being used to pay wages, but the service charge will stay.

 

However at some point the balance between the profit made from the few people still paying the service charge compared to the loss of sales because of the existence of a service charge will be reached, and P&O will get rid of it.

[dgs1956]

Do not understand why people get so uptight about some people not paying gratuities or how much they pay, when you go in a restaurant anywhere else on land nobody has any idea what others pay so how do you know when you tip that others might give more and therefore it is them that moan about fellow cruisers might be "stiffing" the staff of their wages. I feel really sorry for those that do not know for definite whatever anyone has paid or have such sad lives that they automatically assume that if you are not in MDR you are not paying tips and stiffing the staff its laughable.

 

My sentiments exactly!!!

[insanemagnet]

Do not understand why people get so uptight about some people not paying gratuities or how much they pay, when you go in a restaurant anywhere else on land nobody has any idea what others pay so how do you know when you tip that others might give more and therefore it is them that moan about fellow cruisers might be "stiffing" the staff of their wages.

 

Because they are not tips.

 

If P&O (and the others) were asking for an amount that people would recognise as a tip they might leave in restaurant, most people would be amenable to paying it. As it is, if a couple use the buffet for breakfast and lunch and the MDR for dinner, then P&O are valuing the evening meal at £120, excluding wine. That seems a bit of a reach.

[Millers]

What is this obsession with tipping?

 

I pay auto-tips and no extra. I consider it more of a service charge than a tip.

 

I don't pay cash tips because quite frankly although I consider the service to be very good I don't think it can be considered to be exceptional.

 

P&O don't look like they are going to include tips so basically you are stuck with the present system.

 

Everyone chooses what they are going to do with regard to tipping and its obvious that regardless of how much discussion there is that nobody will change.

 

Tipping is not compulsory and so I cannot understand is why so many are concerned with what anyone else does. Personally I couldn't care less what others do including if they choose not to pay any at all.

 

 

 

Dead right

 

 

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[Eglesbrech]

Do not understand why people get so uptight about some people not paying gratuities or how much they pay, when you go in a restaurant anywhere else on land nobody has any idea what others pay so how do you know when you tip that others might give more and therefore it is them that moan about fellow cruisers might be "stiffing" the staff of their wages. I feel really sorry for those that do not know for definite whatever anyone has paid or have such sad lives that they automatically assume that if you are not in MDR you are not paying tips and stiffing the staff its laughable.

 

On land, at least here in the UK staff get the minimum wage so a tip is just an extra, not an essential part of someone's livelihood. Consequently in the Uk your are quite correct I for one could not really care less if someone else tips or how much.

 

A lot of us however are not assuming anything, you get to know staff and prior to the autotips staff were quite open about just how often pax did not attend the MDR on the last night and did not pay tips, a big part of those staffs earnings. Now staff don't / are not allowed to talk about these issues as much

 

I feel sorry for the staff who are deprived of chunk of their wages because the tips are really that. This being the case if others don't pay, those who do pay, end up paying more hence the recent, regular increases.

 

Everyone is however entitled to their opinion.

[grapau27]

But I did say that before auto gratuities were introduced we sometimes never ate in MDR on the last night but we always made sure that the waiters received their tips in envelopes on the night before.

Well done and something i have done in the past as well.

It is the people who short change the crew that lots of us detest.

 

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[grapau27]

On land, at least here in the UK staff get the minimum wage so a tip is just an extra, not an essential part of someone's livelihood. Consequently in the Uk your are quite correct I for one could not really care less if someone else tips or how much.

 

A lot of us however are not assuming anything, you get to know staff and prior to the autotips staff were quite open about just how often pax did not attend the MDR on the last night and did not pay tips, a big part of those staffs earnings. Now staff don't / are not allowed to talk about these issues as much

 

I feel sorry for the staff who are deprived of chunk of their wages because the tips are really that. This being the case if others don't pay, those who do pay, end up paying more hence the recent, regular increases.

 

Everyone is however entitled to their opinion.

I agree with you.Personally we have always gone over and beyond with tips because the crew deserve it and at the end of the day it is a huge chunk of their salary.

The only people that i find offensive are the people who stiff the crew of the tips.

 

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[majortom10]

What is this obsession with tipping?

I pay auto-tips and no extra. I consider it more of a service charge than a tip.

I don't pay cash tips because quite frankly although I consider the service to be very good I don't think it can be considered to be exceptional.

P&O don't look like they are going to include tips so basically you are stuck with the present system.

Everyone chooses what they are going to do with regard to tipping and its obvious that regardless of how much discussion there is that nobody will change.

Tipping is not compulsory and so I cannot understand is why so many are concerned with what anyone else does. Personally I couldn't care less what others do including if they choose not to pay any at all.

 

Well said I agree with your sentiments entirely.