NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[LMaxwell]

NLH, that's exactly what I wanted to know--that my DSC doesn't get taken away by NCL, and that the staff's paycheck is increased based on DSC. I would be happier to know that 100% of my DSC goes to staff - this sounds more like it goes into a big pot and if the pot > $xx then the staff benefits; else they don't but I think I can live with this. I would still honestly prefer to hand each staff member what I consider their percentage of my DSC bill but given the extreme guilt trip on those of us who dare to question the sacred institution, this is better than nothing. Thanks for the info and for not flaming me for daring to ask blunt questions. I'm sure you and I want the same outcome.

 

The paycheck could increase above the minimum, or it could not. It's really at managements discretion. Their only legal obligation is in the contract. I too like to think all the DSC would go to service personnel, but even NCL says they set aside a portion for crew welfare. How much? Don't know.

 

I will say this, on Royal Caribbean, workers have to achieve certain metrics in order to be entitled to the maximum payout possible; below that they start losing a cut. Where does that cut go? This has never been explained.

 

Anecdotal; my friend bar tends at a fairly nice, busy bar. Not a hole in wall dive, not a cheap place. He told me that not only does management take out credit card fees, but of a tipped amount on a credit card management takes 15% of THAT. So let's say you leave a $10 tip on a credit card. Management takes out the 30 cents or so to cover CC processing, and then takes $1.50 for themselves, and gives the worker the rest. That is disgusting if not completely illegal. Now when I go out and pay with a CC I tip in cash. Whatever tip out they have with back of house is up to them, but at least I know managers aren't getting their hands on the cash that was NEVER intended for them.

[sanger727]

Payroll is a cost of doing business, even if it's a ridiculously low hourly rate for a tipped position. That's what the tip is for, to supplement that low paycheck. So--if the employer uses the tips to pay that low hourly wage, then who is being stiffed?

 

 

Because the reality is that it is often a combination of the two that leads to a minimum wage. In the US, even though a very low minimum wage is permitted to tipped positions, the employee is still guaranteed the right to earn the standard minimum wage. Now, it averages out over the course of a pay period and while I certainly worked shifts where I didn’t make minimum wage, that never occurred averages out over a pay period. But in theory, if you worked a 20 hour work week with a wage of $2 an hour and received no tips, the employee would have to make up the difference to pay the $7 an hour minimum wage. So, by earning tips you are saving your employer the cost of paying you $5 an hour. So in theory everyone could choose not to tip and the server would receive more pay from their employer, but they also wouldn’t be employed for very long. I suspect this is also true for the cruise line.

 

Every industry has their standards for evaluation and may be reading into things that you aren’t meaning to imply. Virtually every time I use a customer service at a business anymore I receive a follow up survey. If I had a good experience I used to give 8s and 9s on those because to me, that’s an excellent score. Then I was informed by multiple people over multiple businesses that a 9 is considered a fail. I would be willing to bet that if you remove the DSC, even though you are doing it to do a solid for the crew by tipping in cash instead, that from an evaluation perspective that that’s considered a fail for them.

 

 

 

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Edited August 12, 2018 by sanger727

[LMaxwell]

If you’re too cheap to pay the DSC on any cruise line, just do us all a favor and stay home.

 

What favor would the non-DSC payers be doing for you? Wouldn't, logically, you get better service if you paid and the guy next to you didn't? I think I am going to get better service by paying in if the guy next to me hasn't.

[Shoppie124]

Has anyone ever planned a wedding or a party at a facility? The contract is always plus tax, plus 18% service charge (that’s what I’ve paid in the past) PLUS gratuity (whatever you see fit)

 

 

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[erdoran]

If you’re too cheap to pay the DSC on any cruise line, just do us all a favor and stay home.

 

PTC, that was uncalled for and that's what stifles honest discussions and education, which is what CC is supposed to be about. My long post said that I was considering at least the amount of my DSC as my personal "tip pool" and AT LEAST THAT MUCH would be handed out to DSC staff as direct tips. If your concern is the crew being properly compensated, then why in the world would you attack someone who has the same concern and is willing to put her money where her mouth is to make sure they are?

 

Let's say my DSC is $200. Then how is is "cheap" to divide $200 cash among DSC staff rather than hand it over to NCL and trust them to distribute that same $200. "cheap" means me KEEPING that $200, right? So either you are calling me a liar, which is BS, uncalled for, and a personal attack - or YOU have vested interest in that $200 going to NCL instead of to the people who deserve it.

 

Please explain why you consider anyone who DARES to question the sacred DSC as cheap, and why you seem to assume that everyone who asks a legitimate question is automatically lying and cheap?

[Something fun!]

Didn't this encourage you to provide good service? I am sure there are tips outside of the norm; good and bad, but generally didn't you find that when you provided good service you were making good money?

 

I wish this were the case in healthcare. Hah!

[notalandlover]

How did all the behind the scenes people get paid before the introduction of DSC?

Excellent point.

[Something fun!]

If you’re too cheap to pay the DSC on any cruise line, just do us all a favor and stay home.

 

I'm with you (some people will never get it).

[LMaxwell]

One thing is for certain; it's pathologically unfair to tie the remuneration of a behind the scenes employee to a DSC/Tip/Wage that is adjustable by a guest who may, quite innocently, think it is a tip for their room attendant, wait staff, and others that may provide face to face direct services. Pay the behind the scenes workers a fair, livable, consistent wage for the work they do supporting hotel operations.

 

Allow those providing face to face direct services to reap the benefits of a tip pool / DSC / service charge as that's the front line of your company. Their knowledge that they can earn cash above and beyond a minimum, with a right to keep what a guest voluntarily gives them for services provided, is a major incentive towards providing good, friendly, efficient service and keep guests coming back to spend money with the company.

 

Wouldn't that be just too easy? Compensate support staff in a fair consistent manner, and allow front line staff to keep ANY cash they are handed.

 

You know. Like the real world.

[erdoran]

I'm with you (some people will never get it).

Same question to you - why assume someone is lying if they question the DSC and legitimately prefer to directly tip?

[LMaxwell]

I'm with you (some people will never get it).

 

I "get" the argument, but it's a bit of a dog's breakfast really.

 

The current systems ties the compensation of many behind the scenes support staff to a charge that a guest has full discretion over whether they pay it or not.

 

Some people just pay it, and they are done. No more, no less.

Some people pay it and add cash too. I am sure that is appreciated.

Some people take off the DSC and tip out some amount (below, equal to, or above the prescribed DSC amount). There is conjecture as to whether NCL shakes down staff and confiscates money after each shift. or who is penalized and how. Still, many old school people prefer to pay cash direct.

Some people take off the DSC and pay nothing at all. Not ideal, but so be it. I may disagree, but it's within their rights. They don't need to game the system.

 

So the argument is because this flawed system exists, and because we aren't likely to get it changed, and because we all benefit from foreign flagged ships with a foreign crew (relatively low prices), we should just pay it, even though it's a service charge, regardless of good, bad, great, terrible service and "go along to get along".

 

That about sum it up?

[Justjrn]

Do you all remember when the daily service charge started? Back then it was called prepaid gratuity, with the explanation that you didn't need to bring cash to tip your steward, waiters etc.

Now it is called the daily service charge and if you read NCL's FAQs they do encourage you to tip your stewards and waiters etc.

I do believe in the beginning the daily charge was given to the staff and they didn't expect passengers to leave additional tips. Now the daily charge feels an awful lot like the rest of the cruise fare and you need to continue tipping well.

 

Out of curiosity, how much did you all tip before the daily charge or prepaid gratuity scheme? and for those who tip now, how much do you generally tip (i mean per person per day)?

 

oh and a different scheme for the the UK versus US passengers on gratuities makes complete sense. In the UK tipping is not done anywhere near the same amounts and frequencies that it is done in the US. Completely different philosophy on how wage earners should be compensated.

 

J

[Something fun!]

I worked in food service for YMCA campground for a summer back in college. When we received tips in the restaurant, we had to put it in a box that they pooled until the end of the summer. It got divided among all of the staff, not just the ones with direct customer contact. So if you ever think this is a concept that cruiselines created, you are sorely mistaken.

[erdoran]

One thing is for certain; it's pathologically unfair to tie the remuneration of a behind the scenes employee to a DSC/Tip/Wage that is adjustable by a guest who may, quite innocently, think it is a tip for their room attendant, wait staff, and others that may provide face to face direct services. Pay the behind the scenes workers a fair, livable, consistent wage for the work they do supporting hotel operations.

 

Allow those providing face to face direct services to reap the benefits of a tip pool / DSC / service charge as that's the front line of your company. Their knowledge that they can earn cash above and beyond a minimum, with a right to keep what a guest voluntarily gives them for services provided, is a major incentive towards providing good, friendly, efficient service and keep guests coming back to spend money with the company.

 

Wouldn't that be just too easy? Compensate support staff in a fair consistent manner, and allow front line staff to keep ANY cash they are handed.

 

You know. Like the real world.

OMG. Common sense and fairness!!

 

But wait - how about the "you dare question DSC, you're too cheap to sail" - what would that group do for their jollies?

[erdoran]

Do you all remember when the daily service charge started? Back then it was called prepaid gratuity, with the explanation that you didn't need to bring cash to tip your steward, waiters etc.

Now it is called the daily service charge and if you read NCL's FAQs they do encourage you to tip your stewards and waiters etc.

I do believe in the beginning the daily charge was given to the staff and they didn't expect passengers to leave additional tips. Now the daily charge feels an awful lot like the rest of the cruise fare and you need to continue tipping well.

Out of curiosity, how much did you all tip before the daily charge or prepaid gratuity scheme? and for those who tip now, how much do you generally tip (i mean per person per day)?

 

oh and a different scheme for the the UK versus US passengers on gratuities makes complete sense. In the UK tipping is not done anywhere near the same amounts and frequencies that it is done in the US. Completely different philosophy on how wage earners should be compensated.

 

J

 

I don't remember exact amounts, but it was at least whatever the cruiseline recommended when they delivered the envelopes. And I have to say, the very first time it ended up being well over $300 and we had no advance warning, TA said nothing and it wasn't in the brochure either. Second time we were prepared and budgeted for it - but both times, I know we tipped at least the minimum and I think second time was more than minimum.

 

As far as now, always DSC; when we are in Haven we tip, at a minimum, butler & concierge based on how much we use them, and last time we also tipped Haven restaurant staff directly for going above & beyond to cater to DH's picky eating. I think I've also tipped steward extra, and at times also filled out that "extra tip" line at the bar and the spa - felt guilty if I didn't do it :>

[Something fun!]

Same question to you - why assume someone is lying if they question the DSC and legitimately prefer to directly tip?

 

I should probably use my better judgement and not even bother responding. However, I will give you the decency of explaining my point of view again.

 

I don't think anyone is lying and if they are I really don't care. People that remove the DSC are in the boat that doesn't care if it costs anyone else more money. It is all about them. I will use a different word rather than cheap if preferable. GREEDY. Because the ship needs to take in a minimum amount to pay the staff, when you remove your DSC, my total cost goes up. Smells like rotten fish.:confused:

[erdoran]

So NCL just adds DSC to cruise fare, everyone pays their fair share, and life is good! The idea is to set fares at the proper dollar figure to cover expenses and make a profit, not put pax in the position of having the option to impact that minimum.

 

And greedy? How is it MY responsibility to subsidize anyone's fare? I thought the DSC is to properly compensate tipped employees. Am I missing something here? cheap & greedy would be removing the DSC and not properly tipping employees with the removed $$, don't you agree?

[Something fun!]

So NCL just adds DSC to cruise fare, everyone pays their fair share, and life is good! The idea is to set fares at the proper dollar figure to cover expenses and make a profit, not put pax in the position of having the option to impact that minimum.

 

And greedy? How is it MY responsibility to subsidize anyone's fare? I thought the DSC is to properly compensate tipped employees. Am I missing something here? cheap & greedy would be removing the DSC and not properly tipping employees with the removed $$, don't you agree?

 

Sure. I agree. :rolleyes:

[erdoran]

Valerie, thanks for your response. I hate being called cheap & greedy when it's undeserved!

[LMaxwell]

I worked in food service for YMCA campground for a summer back in college. When we received tips in the restaurant, we had to put it in a box that they pooled until the end of the summer. It got divided among all of the staff, not just the ones with direct customer contact. So if you ever think this is a concept that cruiselines created, you are sorely mistaken.

 

No, but was camp management taking a cut? That's wage theft in the United States.

[LMaxwell]

OMG. Common sense and fairness!!

 

But wait - how about the "you dare question DSC, you're too cheap to sail" - what would that group do for their jollies?

 

They will misinterpret some other cruise guideline and say "Follow the rules or don't sail".

 

It's like the dress code arguments on other boards "don't wear shorts, it's the rule!". Wait, do you mean a rule for men, or a rule for women? Because I've *never* in 29 years of cruising seen it enforced against a woman. Oh wait, did you mean breakfast and lunch? No? Wait, did you mean everywhere on the ship? No? Just the dining room. Oh, okay. And for men only. Weird. So do you have an actual issue with shorts, or you just follow rules. Never get an answer to that one. Think it is mainly the same people who lack any ability to do critical thinking about what is the importance or end result, but damn good at being loud after they misinterpret anything they read.

 

Remove dress code, insert smoking, any hot topic. You can watch; same people over and over that lack critical thinking and instead of just being honest the best they can muster is to bash people over it. Because it's easier. And it gets other simple thinkers to join with them and bash also. And sitting behind a keyboard bashing people is fun for some; this is a free forum, so you also get those that don't really want to participate in a discussion or learn anything, they just like to bash people. It's sad.

 

Anyways, I take people at face value until proven otherwise. Like you, I have removed DSC when I believe it was warranted, and substituted cash to those individuals of MY choosing. Do you know why? Because it's my decision and choice; DSC has been removed in events of crew members providing bad service; and I am not going to waste finite vacation time in meetings about it. If they all work together, then they can weed out the weak chain links. Conversely, I have paid above and beyond the prescribed DSC amount in cash but to a handful of people of my choosing that provided service that made my trips great.

 

Just. Like. The. Real. World.

[Sam Ting]

I should probably use my better judgement and not even bother responding. However, I will give you the decency of explaining my point of view again.

 

I don't think anyone is lying and if they are I really don't care. People that remove the DSC are in the boat that doesn't care if it costs anyone else more money. It is all about them. I will use a different word rather than cheap if preferable. GREEDY. Because the ship needs to take in a minimum amount to pay the staff, when you remove your DSC, my total cost goes up. Smells like rotten fish.:confused:

 

 

It’s your choice to play along. You can remove the DSC too you know. But hey thanks, we enjoy the discount!

[Seminole1975]

I "get" the argument, but it's a bit of a dog's breakfast really.

 

The current systems ties the compensation of many behind the scenes support staff to a charge that a guest has full discretion over whether they pay it or not.

 

Some people just pay it, and they are done. No more, no less.

Some people pay it and add cash too. I am sure that is appreciated.

Some people take off the DSC and tip out some amount (below, equal to, or above the prescribed DSC amount). There is conjecture as to whether NCL shakes down staff and confiscates money after each shift. or who is penalized and how. Still, many old school people prefer to pay cash direct.

Some people take off the DSC and pay nothing at all. Not ideal, but so be it. I may disagree, but it's within their rights. They don't need to game the system.

 

So the argument is because this flawed system exists, and because we aren't likely to get it changed, and because we all benefit from foreign flagged ships with a foreign crew (relatively low prices), we should just pay it, even though it's a service charge, regardless of good, bad, great, terrible service and "go along to get along".

 

That about sum it up?

 

It sums it up quite well thank you, but I am also reading that some people think NCL and other cruise lines keep the DSC for themselves and pay the crew's minimum salary out of it. Some think the cruise lines lie to the public and we are all being scammed. Where are all the lawsuits? If there is anything other than anecdotal evidence or hearsay or articles from a magazine or random crew reports, lets hear it, but otherwise give us all a break.

[erdoran]

It sums it up quite well thank you, but I am also reading that some people think NCL and other cruise lines keep the DSC for themselves and pay the crew's minimum salary out of it. Some think the cruise lines lie to the public and we are all being scammed. Where are all the lawsuits? If there is anything other than anecdotal evidence or hearsay or articles from a magazine or random crew reports, lets hear it, but otherwise give us all a break.

Some more transparency would help - again I cite the old Carnival (not sure if they even do this) ways where they break down DSC and say how much each job category gets. That alone would go a really long way towards public confidence.

 

But - it's great to have a forum like this that people who DO wonder (and it's my money, why shouldn't I ask questions?) can ask questions and get legitimate answers, rather than being bashed for daring to question the sacred cow.

[LMaxwell]

It sums it up quite well thank you, but I am also reading that some people think NCL and other cruise lines keep the DSC for themselves and pay the crew's minimum salary out of it. Some think the cruise lines lie to the public and we are all being scammed. Where are all the lawsuits? If there is anything other than anecdotal evidence or hearsay or articles from a magazine or random crew reports, lets hear it, but otherwise give us all a break.

 

I think once you pay management, it is managements decision how, when, and what percentage they distribute. That's not quite the same thing you say that others are saying, but that's the cold stark truth about it. You pay NCL, NCL distributes it in some fashion.